I'm glad I'm nearing the end of my HVAC career instead of just starting out in the field. Life was much simpler before all the modern technology and when everything was 22, 12, or 502.
It's idiotic to trust manufacturers of products with such high failure rates. Imagine being a car mechanic and oNLy dOinG wHaT tHe mAnuFacTuReR sAYs! No. A good mechanic knows workarounds and patches that prevent throwing good money after bad. His advice is for fools.
As homeowner who does ALL of their own work down to and including changing out electrical panels hot (YIKES!) I love you're channel and am so glad I found it. GREAT INFO!
Thank you for sharing this info about the mini split AC units. I am not an HVAC tech but I do many DIY things around the house and mini split AC units are among them as well. I can check the pressure in the system but I cant tell how much its missing to add accordingly so Yes I do agree with your statement to completely discharge and recharge based on the label numbers and those systems are not that smart to tell you how much free on is missing in the system. Thank you once again for sharing the info. God bless you and your family.
I don’t put my gauges on most systems whether conventional or mini split. I first start by taking temperatures and if my temps are off then I start looking at other things before connecting gauges.
This isn't my day job so this is an interesting factoid. We installed a LG minisplit inverter system, two compressors 6 indoor units a couple of years ago, nice piece of info to take into consideration especially with R410a phaseout.
Pre EPA Hvac rules 1980s Ancient mini spilt history: the units i saw in Singapore Toyko and Thailand had R22. They had both high and low pressure taps on the outside unit. The expansion valve was Inside in the Inside unit. This scheme sometimes added noise of the metering valve. Todays mini spilts I own are R410a. The metering valve is in the outside units. There is NO high pressure tap to measure the high side pressure. Both lines are on the low side on most all modern mini spilts. That is why both lines are insulated. When a modern mini spilt is low on charge in Cleveland the smaller line usually frosts over. So the poor homeowner is trying to cool all of Cleveland than the inside of his John and Janes house. The problem a HVAC repair guy has is the lay public thinks there are 2 pressure ports to check what is happening on a mini split. Also the HVAC repair person has no clue if the lost 10 oz of R410a happened over 7 years or 7 days. Most of the time the leak is in the inside unit or the flare fittings. .
If a homeowner asks me for no or low cooling call on minisplit, I first check the condenser unit for suction line sweating, and the fan air for how much hot air is coming out, and the condensation line if there is any water coming out of it. These can give initial indication, and don't forget the inside unit filter check.
Disagree with you to a certain extent. You are completely right about "properly" charging a system by weight. I have rarely done this unless the system is giving me supreme attitude in a service scenario . Some manufactures will give a range of what your pressure's should be or if you call them they will give you some hints along with an amp check on the compressor. If I have a whack of calls its getting a top up and a leak check on to the next one. Most home owners want their systems to cool asap not really concerned with a system properly charged.
Well, I disagree with you to a certain extent. I would argue that 100% of home owners want their systems to cool asap not really concerned with a system properly charged, not most. That said, is it not the job of the HVAC professional to be a professional? A professional who disregards the uneducated / ignorant homeowners concerns and provide them with a properly charged A/C running at 100% proficiency (which will provide many years of cooling comfort) is the honest way to go.
I don't quite understand - why would say a 3 ton mini split have so much less refrigerant than a 3 ton central heat pump? But having recently (like 2 wks ago) upgraded heat pumps, I do like the technology. For once, without redoing ducts or other invasive modifications, my two levels are within 1 degree F (sometimes within 0.2 degrees!) of each other thanks to inverter technology. Used to be a ~3 degree difference.
Good data, and it makes sense. I have 3 and 4 zone LG's and am chasing a "spitting water out with the cool air" issue. I was wondering if it might be low pressure in the system, but the other 3 units are totally fine (the annoying one is on the top floor closest to attic). Everything else works, so will NOT check the pressure myself. Disclaimer: I am an idiot who keeps the AC working on a pair of 1980's Porsches. I know enough to know a small difference makes a big mess. :-)
Made sense to me. A quick guess of gas and go can get someone up until repair or replacement. I think, if nothing is freezing, temp splits good, leave it alone. Too often, things are dirty or operator error.
Great Video Thank You for sharing, I have a question for you, I have a Mitshibishi muy-gl18na-u1 18BTU 20.5 seer mini split, My system will not ramp up, It blows cold air inside, The outside unit I have a Error Code 3 blink then pause 2.5 seconds, its under warranty still, A diamond perffered company replaced the Board, and compressor, I installed all new sensors, I removed the blower wheel and cleaned the inside unit back to new looking, No matter what I do system will not ramp up, You can hear the compressor ramping up but the fan motor stays in the same speed. Any Ideas? Maybe the Fan motor going bad?
Wish I had seen this before I followed a different RU-vid recomendations whereby one can check with a gauge ( mini split running on full cold) and if running under 129 psi, add refrigerant ( after purging lines) intermittently to bring it back up to 120 ish. I think I overcharged it so then I realeased some back out, but now I agree, the only sure way would be to remove all the refrigerant and weigh in the proper amount.
While technically correct about weighing refrigerant, modern mini-splits have specific instructions on how to check refrigerant without removing it (I.e. “loading it up to capacity”). Eventually one of these “not my install” HVAC companies are going to figure out how much DIY install money is left on the table and start making a butt load of cash!
2:43 The same thing happens with conventional systems too. If it’s a maintenance call you shouldn’t have to put your gauges on a system if amp draw, delta T, and everything else checks out good.
Problem is TD is a very poor indication on how well a system is actually operating. It tells you the air is cold. But is it cold because of poor airflow? Maybe you have a low td. Poor TD could be anything from airflow to high humidity. And amp draws tell you next to nothing on an ecm motor.
Just out of curiosity, why would a company like Pioneer sell A refill/dye/leak sealer all in one kit and still back their warranties. These kits they sell are all pressure-based installs. As I write this, I am awaiting the very same kit. I will be storing all refrigerant back into the outside unit, then vacuuming the lines and leaving the gauge hooked up for 48 hours or more, and if I have no leaks, release refrigerant and top off with pioneers kit. now explain to me how I’m either going to become a participant in a a class action lawsuit or, if Indeed, Pioneer does have a legitimate fix?
At the same time your superheat/subcool can be influenced greatly by the speed of the compressor. Unless there is a speed latch or charging mode, you can't be sure the compressor is ramped up for 100%, which is generally needed to charge properly.
I'm sure this is the correct way to do it. However, someone who hasn't got a recovery tank or a scale doesn't really have this option without shelling out hundreds of dollars. It's going to cost more than the compressor is worth for me to call a tech. So I fumble forward and add refrigerant.
Weird no one made a fitting that screws on the low pressure port with a zigbee sensor to read the pressure a million times a day. THAT would give excellent info over time on how the system is working.....
I figured as much, Josh. These things have a mind of their own, so to speak, the way they cycle through so many states. It's neat because it works well but it's also complex and likely to be a maintenance nightmare. Not surprising they have a full-go mode for charging. I'd imagine there's a whole hidden troubleshooting menu with a set of functions to manually operate all the components. I don't know how these little guys meter refrigerant through the evap but computer controlled big chillers have an electrically controlled motor valve the computer commands based on temps and pressures continuously sampled. I figured when I open my system again I'd attach ports to install pressure sensors then I could watch it work whenever curiosity hit. I wouldn't be shocked if the mini splits were continuously monitoring temps and pressures.
I have found a kinked refrigerant line between my outdoor unit into the wall. My question is do you remove the refrigerant, cut out that piece and weld in a new section? Or is it a much bigger problem
Ok, so if this is not recommended, I am wondering how to address the E4 error code on my okd minisplit. Made sure outside unit is clear of debris, all filters are cleaned, thermometer is fine. The only thing I can think of is the refrigerant, which makes sense because it is almost 15 yrs old. So, do I test the psi and add refrigerant or no? Any advise is appreciated.
Could someone help me, I have a mimi split that the fan freezes up outside when heat is on what's wrong, does it need freon. Doesn't blow hot air very good
Hole created in copper piping during mini-split install. Refrigerant out in a week. The leak site was easily located, easy fix. Has my brand new system been ruined? Or will a patch and refill be OK? Thanks in advance for opinions!
Patch and refill depends on whether or not the system was operated while very low or out of freon. If so then the system will need a new liquid drier and double/tripple vac and over night vac before recharged.
While I agree that he is speaking truth, he is withholding the fact that he is using a fear tactic to discourage this type of DIY which can be done judiciously and prevent the homeowner from paying him, or one of his cronies, exorbitant fees to maintain a system that is designed for skilled DIYers to install and maintain. The HVAC industry is so peeved at the ease of DIY installation systems that many will not help when something goes wrong unless you pay them exactly what they would charge you for the system and installation. They hate that they are losing money to this DIY mini split industry and have taken a hands-off attitude rather than getting on board with it and make a little money off of maintenance and repair when a homeowner wants to go that route. This is one area where RU-vid University is saving money for probably thousands of people.
Concur. I've had no formal training with Residential HVAC systems. Over the past 10 years, I've installed 5 different Mini Spit systems and I've maintained them w/o paying technicians. For the most part they're fairly simple to install/maintain.
No he’s just trying to save homeowners headaches. I’ve seen a few of these “do it yourself” systems all fucked up. This guys 💯 correct. We also do only commercial industrial HVAC so I’m not biased. Critical charge systems need a proper tech to work on/install for longevity of the system. This guys honestly just trying to help. And yes home owners can get lucky and it’s just fine.
@@nolte8152 You must have missed the words I wrote. I did not say "homeowners." I said skilled DIYers. They don't rely on luck. You must be a one-skill-only type who cannot understand the wide variety of skills a DIYer brings to the job along with their understanding of a wide range of systems and the ability to quickly learn more and put it to work. They usually have an intuitive grasp of understanding how a system works and quickly see how to install, repair and improve the system. I stand by what I wrote as being 100% accurate.
@@nolte8152 Not aspiring to any occupation. Retired from a very successful career and enjoying my retirement. But, I have high regards for the engineers I know. I hear some aren't so good, but that's true in every occupation. Right now it appears to be especially true of the HVAC trade.
Just like every repair person he explains a simple mini split leak repair in a way to where he makes it sound like it is the hardest thing to do and it is going to break him to pieces and it is soooo hard to do.... Buddy it takes a few minutes to do. The way you said "Find the leak, recover the refrigerant, fix the leak and all the stuff that comes along with it, and then fill it back up and weigh it and ..." It is not that tough. I am not even an ac guy. I am a doctor and I was able to walk myself through the entire process the first time and that includes weighing the recovered refrigerant and brazing a coil into a 15k but Mitsubishi. It took me about two hours to do everything from start to finish and I am not an ac guy. Getting the parts is the hardest thing. Literally ALL of these blue collar jobs are relatively easy when you have the correct tools and decent materials and you order things that are easy to put in and or complete out of the box installs. After I saw what my 20k ac system took to install and saw the $5500 worth of materials that were involved I vowed that I would ruin the person's life that installed it and I promise you I will make him lose a total of $200,000 by the time I am done screwing with him.
What is the proper procedure on recovering all the refrigerant from a mini split? I put my entire home and pole barn on mini splits (installed 6 mini split systems, all energy star rated 22-28 seer) and one of them ended up with a leak, even after passing pressure testing of several hours (at 200 psi) . Anyway I want to recover all the refrigerant, fix leak and pressure test again etc and refill. I got my EPA 608 type II certfication, have a 30lb tank of r410a, bought a robinair refrigerant recovery machine, and scale etc. I am now searching on how to recover from a mini split, only seeing videos on normal ac systems and how to do it on them, not finding mini split recovery.
Search YT for terms "mini split draw down" without the quotes if you havent found them by now. There are some good videos on it. I cant link to it any as my comment will get autodeleted.
This is a very good video. Please my question is I added refrigerant to my 1hp Samsung spit AC when the power was turned off and I waited 10 hours to put the power on. Is it okay?
Couldn’t you just turn off the system for like an hour and then turn it back on and obviously it’s going to want to be at full capacity to get that back up and then you could check then I mean considering that at that point the system is probably gonna be running at 100%
Since there is no charging mode on mini splits, can you just crank down the temp on the thermostat to get it going 100 percent capacity to charge?Or does it not work that way?
is there any way to check refrigerant levels with the system turned off? my outside fan conked out so my pioneer won't stay on;, also the high pressure valve has no port.
Hmmm, so basically, the new systems are more expensive, filled with complicated electronics which love to break, ((I've been an electronics guy all my life), because they are electronic and that's just what ALL Electronics do over time), and now it's even more difficult for HVAC Tech's to test, troubleshoot and repair which ultimately ends up costing the customer more money in the long run for all future maintenance. What a great deal for the consumers of these products!! And all this to save a few bucks per month in Electric Bills, ALL of which will likely be eaten up by future repair and equipment replacement bills to the customer. Oh yeah, and all that refrigerant you have to suck out and send to the recycler? Do they pay the HVAC guys for each bottle of refrigerant that is turned in to be recycled? And once again the customer is on the hook for all new refrigerant every time the system gets a little low on gas. All of this takes a lot of time which translates to a lot more hours billed to the owners to do what should have been able to be done in a short time at very little expense. Great move HVAC World!!!! Oh, and the CO2 issue that the world is trying to "FIX"... Yeah, it was revealed recently that our atmosphere contains approximately 0.04% (That's four one hundredths of one percent) CO2 gas, and their goal is to reduce it by 50% bringing it down to 0.02% (or two hundredths of one percent!!!) And they want everyone to believe this will make a huge difference..., Sorry, I'm calling B.S on this one. I'm no chemist, but I DON'T THINK SO!!!! I enjoy your videos, keep up the great work!
If anything I have seen electronics become more resilient over time. I have far less stuff that breaks now than before. Companies who cheap out on electronics are the issue, because cheap stuff is cheap for a reason.
@@JarredSutherland for most consumer products, you're probably right. But as we all know, electronics hates heat more than anything on the planet. When you have condensers sitting out in the sun cooking at 100 plus degrees All Summer Long in places like arizona, texas, and Florida where I live, it can't help but take a toll on all of those electronics. Additionally, the indoor units are generally placed in the Attic which in my neck of the woods here in Central Florida hover around 130° f to 150° F All Summer Long! Generally the electronics are not actively cooled in any way on either the outdoor or the indoor units. They're generally locked into a tin can with no ventilation, and simply generating their own heat with no real easy way to get rid of it as the majority of the units have no type of heat sinking on them or active cooling like a computer CPU would have. I'm sure some of the new inverter units may have heat sinks attached to some of the higher power devices, but again, they're out in the sun all day long with no real active cooling to help extend their life. Millions of dollars are spent by the industry to determine life expectancy of all things including automobiles and air conditioning systems. They're manufactured to last until the end of their warranty., And from that point on it's a crapshoot. Unfortunately the average consumer gets shafted pretty much every time. While I love gadgets as much as the next person, when you have a very simple mechanical device that works, make it reliable and long-lasting and reasonably priced, and don't force consumers to have to replace the thing every 5 to 10 years as seems to be the current trend with a lot of high ticket items including home appliances, refrigerators, and air conditioning systems.
@@optionstraderman Agreed, for those who can't do it yourself, they get the shaft. I'm a construction guy and don't let anyone so called pro work on my home unless I physically can't do it. As for the mini splits, if there was something I couldn't repair when broken I'd just buy the indoor or outdoor section replacement and install myself rather than hire an HVAC pro to charge me more than the cost of the new unit/section. They ain't hard to install. Maybe tricky to repair. IDK yet. Getting ready to install another in my garage. Only have one in the main house (ranch style) and it keeps all 6 rooms comfortable. Bedrooms use wall existing units only when sleeping if needed. Saved 2000 in oil bills last year when it cost 1500 to fill oil tank. Only use furnace to a minimum settings on Aquastat so boiler only uses oil to keep closed systems from freezing. So love mini split and also have hot water heater inverter system that save on bills. Though oil savings is what really makes it worth it.
Alright, I don't have the time or the inclination to tell you how absolutely and utterly wrong you are about CO2 and climate change. They have known for literally over 100 years that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and that the percent relative to the total atmosphere is remarkably miniscule. HOWEVER, it is not directly proportional to percent CO2 to temperature rise, it's exponential. I know there is literally nothing that could convince you that you're wrong about climate change, because you can't rationalize someone out of a position they didn't rationalize themselves in to. Let that sink in. Secondly, mini split and inverter technology has been around for 45+ years, and has been relatively reliable for most of it. However you're blaming consumer-built electronics with commercial grade, which are much more robust. I work on minisplit and VRF systems routinely, and can tell you more often than not the reliability of a system comes down to installation more than anything. And installation starts before anyone even has the equipment, it takes understanding and planning that so many monkeys with toolbelts don't understand.
Everyone is saying that the only way to check the correct amount of freon on a split system is to weigh it in. That is not true. Just shut the system down for an hour and measure standing preasure. 410 at 75 degrees should read around 210 lbs of preasure.
I'm not sure where you learned that, but that's definitely not true. There are many rules of thumb that may be close, but there's way too many variables for that to be true. Lineset length would be one.
The government must be involved with the HVAC companies My unit goes out, they don;t have r-22 to replace the Freon , so you have to buy a new unit with the new Freon type. So you are forced to replace your old unit. What a scam by the government and the HVAC companies. I bought a mini spit unit and my son and I installed it in 3 hours.They wanted $7500, payed $700 and did it myself. I am ripping off low life HVAC companies I hope.
I completely disagree with you. Sure you can tell if it's low on refrigerant, just by throwing your gauges on any mini split. I've been doing it since they first came out.
Not on inverter models. Too many parameters change continuously. Unless the device tells you what it needs, weight is the only means of doing it right. That said, on a nonworking system, you could put refrigerant in, test by feel on blowing cold, add more, repeat. It will fix it for a while or kill it completely.
lmao yea i was told only way was to pull all refrigerant out and weigh it in.... lmao bs fact is ive had 4 different ac companies come out and they are like deer in headlights. if its a multi zone they have no damn clue. i finally figured it out i asked the last guy is it like this and he said he wasnt sure
Sad but mostly true. There are too many variables to diagnose properly for it to be cost effective for the homeowner. Put it on the curb and install a new one. It will be cheaper in the long run than have a hvac tech to work on it.
For the DIYer, don't listen to these guys, Do what makes sense to you. I installed my own minisplit system after getting a $3000 quote from HVAC "pro's".
You are spreading mis-information probably so you can charge more for your service calls. Mini splits can be checked while running in ANY mode by line pressure. If the pressure is between 100 to 120 while running your good. Below 100 you need to add a little to bring the pressure back into the correct range. Just add a little and let the pressure settle.
You are correct. The problem, I'm guessing, is HVAC pros are spouting off bs based on old school systems and not educating themselves on these newer systems. Mini-split manufacturers provide the information for testing system charge based on pressure.
Saying operating pressures should be in a range of 20 psi and adding (and guessing) when it gets below 100 is NOT properly charging a system. I stand by the information in this video. There’s a right and wrong way to do things. I don’t guess and I don’t shoot for ranges. I do it right. 🙂
This is BS. My mini-split shows the low psi and high psi on a label on the side. You seriously can't hook your gauges up to see what the system low and high psi is? You must get paid by th e hour huh?!!
@@LLCebuRider I'll go ahead and answer since you're probably googling a bunch of websites. The metering device is in the outdoor only. So you can't do a proper subcool. Sure you can do rule of thumbs to get it close. But you can't get it perfect which is why weighing it in is the only right way.
@@NewHVACGuide You're missing the point. Your customer asked you if you could hook up your gauges and show him what the pressure is (where the needles are pointing) and you said you can't (won't) and then start talking techno-mumbo-jumbo. We don't understand that stuff. I think he just wanted to see what the current system pressure was and you wouldn't do it. I'm calling BS on that. You could, have you just didn't want to. I know nothing about this stuff and just bought some gauges yesterday and I'm going to hook them up to see where the needles are pointing, nothing more. I'm just curious. Your customer was probably just curious too.
