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Tweaking the system is endless. My main system has had the same SVS ultra bookshelves for 3 years and they have moved around in probably 1800 locations and angles. Actually just found a new placement last week that sounds amazing.
@@WardoUSA Where does USED Gear Come From???..just be humble about, that way parasites can still get used gear.. you are not a hero for doing it.. remember that..
Know yourself is such great advice. When I was starting out, I asked a friend who's been an audiophile for awhile to suggest equipment to me and he said no, you have to figure it out for yourself and I was annoyed. But the more I got into it, the more I realized he was so right.
I wish I'd known to wear hearing protection when mowing the lawn back in the '80s. Instead I wore headphones and cranked Van Halen. Sure, my mom told me I'd ruin my hearing. But what did she know? Plenty, as it turned out. ;-)
Another great video, yes your point about lateral moves is correct. Buying something in a similar price/performance range will give you some initial joy as it sounds different, but you will probably be searching for something in the future to also sound different because you just arent satisfied with what you have or there's something missing. 2 or 3 lateral moves wont really elevate your game it will just cost you money, instead save up and make one bigger step, it will probably cost you about the same $, but will make a noticeable upgrade to your system. For example I had the ifi zen can/dac combo, a lovely little system, sounded great but it was lacking something. rather than moving to a comparably priced schiit stack or something else to see if that was better, I waited, saved and made a bigger jump to the Aune S9C and S17 pro . Wow what a difference, mind was blown at how good the Aunes are. I cannot imagine any DAC/amp bringing greater enjoyment so Im out of the market for two devices now.
My first expensive lesson was learning that you can switch your stylus without switching your cartridge (if you don't need a new cartridge.) Not always an option, but worth checking.
Yes and knowing if Styli are available for the vintage cartridge that still works and plays well in balance with the headshell; I bought a spare stylus to easily install on the old cartridge.
I'm going with "The Shining" . I pretty sure "The Thing" opened up against E.T. and had the same fate of not being seen. Great advice as always... keep up the great work!
@@billywindsock9597 I think so! But how can't you like the Shining? LOL I'm a director, so I'm really a fan of Stanley Kubrick -- plus it's his film confession of faking the lunar landing for NASA! (LOL)
I had to learn where to place my speakers. Klipsch R51PM on rockville speakers stands and the klipsch r120sw. Sub crawl, made sure to toe in my bookshelf, 3 feet away from the walls and my listening chair placed in the right place. Im always leaning. Two thing's I have learned is getting the right cartridge for my system, running my sl1200MK2, and finding out what sound signature i prefer. Thebmost recent upgrade i did was purchase a pro ject tube box s2 phono stage. It will replace my fosi box s2. Eventually i would like to go to passive floor speakers and Amp. The biggest thing I fell trap to was FOMO At the end of the day, you have to get what YOU like and enjoy listening to, because, after all, youre the one who will be listening to it the majority of the time
I wish I knew how much the room played a role in the sound of a system. Years ago, I would buy new amplifier or a new speaker, and think that it was going to be a huge upgrade over what I had only to be disappointed with the results. What I did not realize is, I was actually listening to the room more than anything. I am so grateful for your channels and many others that have helped me to better understand room acoustics and treatment.
Such good advice. I have sunk mucho $$$ into high end audio. Partly because I like exploring that itch to find a “better” listening experience and partly because I’m addicted to the whole process of researching and buying new stuff. CAM has given me an affordable outlet to explore and purchase a lot of new gear. And it sounds good! This channel is a trusted and fun place to turn to help me get the “fix” I need from time to time with this hobby. Plus I love comparing high end audio to these really great CAM recommendations😃
Randy couldn't have been more correct in warning against making lateral moves. I ended up with 5 pairs of sub-$700 bookshelvers : Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2, Triangle Borea BR03, Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 UB52, Klipsch RP600M and Warfedale Diamond 12.2. They all have some good aspects with some particular music genres but none of them has brought my audio enjoyment to a new level. Dumbest thing is that I keep them all to this date... The most stupid thing was that I kept telling myself I couldn't afford speakers that cost more than $1,000 a pair...
I've learned so much cool stuff about audio from your videos, specifically about DAC's. I really wish I'd stumbled on your channel sooner. As a suggestion, it would be really awesome if you could do a video specifically about computer audio. Reason being, I have a very high end, custom built Windows desktop that supossedly has "great" onboard audio, but I've always hated the overall sound quality through my Bose speakers. After watching one of your videos, I made the leap and disabled the onboard card, bought a Schiit Magni with DAC, and connected everything up. I was blown away. The difference in sound quailty and clarity is ASTOUNDING. But, I would have never know about running an external DAC if one of your videos hadn't popped up in my YT home. Thanks for all the great info and education.
Lateral purchases aren't always wrong: they are if you're looking for more resolution, but if you have e.g. a bright sounding system - a warm sounding equivalent at similar price may me all you need. Buying more expensive and more resolving components may leave you frustrated and broke in this scenario
Very true, you can easily go to the extremes, and never end up satisfied. The gear today, I just picked up a Fosi V3 and with some tweaking of my gear, this stupid little $89 amp has me scratching my head in regards to how good it sounds. So much so, I bought some Sparko op amps to try out. This stupid little amp sounds more A/B on my system than it does Class D, again, scratching my head. Bottome line, at least in my journey, is finding the right speakers and then building upon that base. In my case it was a pair of Zu Dirty Weekends, I now own two pairs. These speakers continue to blow me away, as does this stupid little Fosi amp. I cannot wait for the Fosi ZA3's to get back into stock, I see two in my future.
Buy used, demo, or factory refurbs when you can. I've saved about 50% on average over retail. With a few exceptions, almost everything depreciates significantly.
I like making minor tweaks to my system and that mainly is moving speakers around, and placing them in different spots. While it is hard for me to say what position is "better", I can tell a difference. I have a system that I'm very happy with and my only real problem is getting more time to sit and listen to it, really listen. Keep up the good work. Rock on!
Heh heh, yeah, I got a bad case of acquisition syndrome early on in my journey. Enough so that I have enough gear to put together 4 really nice systems. The good part is that, aside from a couple of sets of awesome super-sale speakers and a Fluance turntable, it didn't cost me very much. I spent a bit of time hunting the local thrift stores to find the other hardware and was very successful. I eventually found a lot of older high-end gear, that was in good working condition, or were easily fixable and hodgepodged them together to get the best sound. The hunt itself was a big part of the fun....an audiophilish treasure hunt if you will. Luckily, I found my sweet spot by finding a fantastic vintage receiver that just made everything pull together. You're right that there is no need to keep buying things if you found your sweet spot. I'd rather use my mad money to find good vinyl and expand my collection.
I started out by using my father's hand me downs and started building around that...literally building. I got a early sixties tube portable stereo record player. It needed better speakers so I built them with the generous help from the people at Ray's World of Electronics. They steered me in the right direction and I end up building a high sensitivity 8" two way featuring a two×seven horn loaded tweeter . That was a good start considering that the single ended tube amp put out a whole two watts. Quickly i also got a real record player an entry level B.I.C. with a Shure M75 cartridge and back to building. That amp didn't have a headphone jack, power switch or magnetic phono preamp. So I wired everything I needed into the amplifier and got new tubes...Yay! From there it's been upgrades and collecting. I could still have that amp, record player and those speakers. I bought a few new things in the next few years, but since the mid eighties everything has been used except for new styli . The mid eighties through about 2012 were great for trash picks and thrift stores. Not going to find a Sansui AU-7900 for seventy-five bucks anymore. But the truth of the matter is that you can still get a good start for not much more than I payed out in the late seventies and early eighties. Considering that I was only making a little over five bucks an hour then and that inexpensive speakers have gotten pretty good these days (listen to your friends get a good idea what you like and don't spend a little and get something nice. You can get an amp for a hundred dollars and use your phone as a source until you want to upgrade) getting a good start shouldn't be a problem if you are going with a digital source. Even my eight dollar Black Web Bluetooth receiver hooked into my system from my phone playing RU-vid Music works okay. Sounds better than a cheap CD player. Those early cheap CD players weren't good even the mid priced ones were so- so.
What I wish I had known...? First off, I've been into HIFI stereo since 1975. As a career Army guy, I ended up doing a few tours in Germany. And I was there at the peak of vintage HIFI components. Randy could tell you that when you are overseas, the PX system or AFFES (Army & Air Force Exchange Service) sold top of the line Marantz, Sansui, Kenwood, Pioneer, JBL and other high-end stereo components for literally pennies on the dollar. The system I finally settled on cost me a grand total of $6000.00. That would be top of the line Phase Linear stuff. A system that would have cost me easily twice that in the states. Unfortunately, Phase Linear discontinued consumer system sales in the early 80s and today, you would pay dearly to own it. Phase Linear was the absolute gold standard in HIFI components. I ended up selling that system for an obscene amount of money and since I've downsized my life, not really having the room to keep a full rack system and adequate speakers. These days, I am happy with some fantastic headphones and a DAC?amp combo unit. Over the past few years, I went crazy, buying and returning headphones for The Next Big Thing. I’ve spent thousands of dollars on headphones' ad DACs, only to discover... The law of diminishing returns. From Dan Clark, to Focal, Sennheiser, Neumann, Audeze and HIFIman, I've spent as much $3000.00 on one headphone and DAC system. What I discovered is that you do not have to spend that much money to get excellence in headphones. After spending 9 days doing A -B side-by-side comparisons, I settled on a set of reasonably priced Emotiva Airmotiv GR1s and a iFi Zen DAC II. I discovered that this system delivers me 95 percent of the sound those 3K headphones gave me. Some of my friends are willing to spend, sometimes hundreds or even thouseands of dollars chasing that 3 to 5% increase in sound. I just cannot justify spending that much on that little. Great if you can, but for me. Uh...no. These Airmotive GR1s are, in my opinion, anomalies in the headphone realm. They sound fantastic. And I've got less than 500 dollars invested in a system that sounds stunningly good.
Haven't switched my DAC since 2019. I have an SMSL VMV D1, its just really good and no need at the moment, maybe later? We shall see... I rarely upgrade stuff unless I can hear a difference ir really believe I will hear a difference
I have my set for over 10 years now and only this year got a better dac(Fiio K7) and a better amp(Denon PMA-1520EA) with the Dali Zensor 7 and very happy with it still. Got way better control overall with my speakers and more juice about 100 watt per speaker now.
The real #1: If you think about audio equipment at any time while listening to music, you have failed as an audiophile. So, most of us here aren't audiophiles. And people who just like to listen to music without caring about equipment are. Just as we were when we first fell in love with music. Think back on that joy and envy the unwashed masses.
DAMN! You nailed that one! I literally had tens of thousands of dollars of gear through here, and the first time I heard the music was when I picked up a pair of used Zu speakers, a Sansui 4000 1970 vintage receiver paired up with a WiiM Pro. $1350 all in, that was the day I started listening to MUSIC! It sounded so good! And it was not just me saying that, I have witnesses! LOL!
Where to start? New? Vintage? Both! Over 50 years in the hobby, bought a ton of stuff and never got rid of anything except what my ex wife thew out nearly 4 decades ago. Am I "there" yet? Of course not, at this point driving myself crazy to get a new turntable, but new? Vintage? TBD! It really never ends but its' a lot of fun!
I think another important factor is break in. Speakers have a break in period and over time may sound better than you thought initially. I’ve experienced this with audio speakers as well as guitar amplifiers.
One of the mistakes that I made was pursuing a single system that could meet all my needs. Sadly, it's really challenging to find a single system that does everything well. Often times, systems that perform well with movies don't handle music as well and vice versa. In the end, I decided to purchase one system for movies and entertainment in the living room and then build a separate system for critical listening in another room.
Yep, I figured that out myself. I have a home theater system with big giant subs and big amps. I even built my LCR Audax speakers. My 2-channel system still uses a Denon DRA 1025 125 wpc that I bought new in 1991. I have Dennis Murphy MBOW-1 speakers and I just recently purchased a set of Q Acoustics towers. I even still have my 43 yr old Sony turntable but it's just a display piece now. I like vintage looking stuff but doesn't necessarily have to be vintage. I'm trying to decide if I want a streamer and DAC. My other problem is I lke a lot of music. I have rock, jazz, classical and some blues vinyl and CD's.
Yep, probably why I have 3 amps in my system and multiple dacs and preamps . No such thing as a perfect system, although you can get close to what you want .
Great episode. Careful EBay shopping for gently used gear saved me a lot of grief and money. I ended up with a strong preference for Klipsch and Definitive Technology. I had a decades old Polk surround system and a Sony amp that died on me. You have been very helpful for a long while now and I appreciate your commentary. Oddly enough, your critiques of some of Klipsch’s sound signatures drove me right into their arms. For cinema, Definitive bipoles and PM800s make for happy dances. In a couple years, my guess is I’ll likely upgrade to an SVS system but I’m very content with my inventory for now. PS: Your reviews on Aiyima products (A07 and T9) helped me set up my office space system with the old Polks. Brightened them right up.
Save your money and learn what is best for your budget and buy components that you will keep In the meantime just use something inexpensive and expendable and save your money Unless you have the money you need to, or should, be a value purchaser
The biggest thing I learnt years ago was finding there is more out there. Stores/shops (uk) just sell ok stuff but at silly prices. With a bit of research there is high end stuff cheapish secondhand. I've went vintage, bought an amp Sansui AU 317 (£250 ebay), Tannoy DC6 ( £200 ebay), I have a Tecnics 1210 Mk2, simple CD player with a direct digital out for for a DAC. I got the SMSL SU-1 DAC and it's really good for the price and thanks for the advice!
for about 2 decade of being an audiophile - my recommendation is listening to as many systems (not just speakers) as you can within your price range. dont take any reviewers reviews as gospel and note everyones hearing / tastes are not the same. especially those are only subjective and provide little to no sound articulation of a product.
Though I haven't really learned anything from you Randy, lol, your research and propensity to play devil's advocate has helped confirm that spending more money doesn't always equate to a better listening experience. Snake oil plays as much a role in high fidelity as other hobbies and you're not shy to expose it. That is where your talent lies. More sites for this platform need to come clean on products that are not worth the coin.
Thanx Randy! Great vid. Geshelli is effin awesome! Could you imagine every company operating like geshelli? Synergy is crazy how you find it. For me, it’s a topping dac/pre running to 2 g’horns in mono hooked up to q acoustic 3030i’s. No matter what I rotate through my main system, I go back for pure emotional listening and enjoyment of the music. And, I’ve got a musical fidelity A1 that is addictive.
I wish I knew that more expensive speakers usually mean 80% build quality and 20% better sound. I wish I knew tower speakers do not sound better than bookshelf speakers with a subwoofer.
I wanted to know if I would like home theater, so I bought the cheapest things I could to make a 5.1.2 system. I'm talking Micca speakers, Polk PSW10s, and a Sony STR-DH790. I know, I know - not the best bang for buck or anything. But it was EXTREMELY educational for me. I learned things that I would never have known otherwise, and it's helped guide me in my upgrade path. Now I'm at the point where I can start upgrading, and my plan is to start with my bed layer, then upgrade my subs, and then limp by with my Sony AVR until I can grab a separate processor and amps. Is this a good general upgrade path, or should I look at having the power in place before upgrading my speakers?
With HT, the subs are key, you want them to go low, like the SVS models can do, and you will want at least two. I would look at the 2000 or 3000 models, I prefer the 3000 and up for HT. The speakers, meh. I would go with Klipsch high sensitivity speakers so that it takes little power to drive them, and you do not need to spend a lot on those speakers. The only important speakers are the L/R and most importantly, that center channel speaker. That is something I would research, the center channel speaker. Go with a conventional center channel, or use a regular speaker? There are some solid debates on which is better. I have always found the center channel the most annoying speaker in the HT setups I have had. HT isn't like two channel, and you have probably figured that out, unless you have never had a good two channel setup. What I am saying is, don't invest a lot in speakers, throw it into the subs, as that is where HT starts to get fun. Then room treatments, that will do more for the overall sound than you can imagine. As far as outboard amps, if you get something like Klipsch, 95dB +/- speakers, then you can use anything you want, Emotiva is perfect for HT use. And you will not need the XPA or DR2 amps, you can use the BassX amps without issue and still get ear bleeding volume levels. You would be amazed at how loud you can get a high sensitivity speaker with 35 watts. You do not need 600 watts, trust me on that. I have a pair of Zu DW6 Supreme speakers here, running off a 10w tube amplifier, I can rattle the kitchen cabinets with those 10 watts. And my speakers are not in the kitchen. Then those speakers, if you want to invest money into the speakers, only do that with the left and right front channels, then the center, and the rest can be just about anything of decent quality. You do not need to spend a lot for Atmos or surround speakers. They are simply there for fill. I hope this helps.
@@michaelwright1602 Super helpful. For the sub upgrade, I have been considering the Monolith M212 or the SVS PB-3000, so it sounds like I was on the right track there
I wish I would’ve known initially how much speaker placement matters! You can almost get a completely different sound, depending on how far away your speakers are from your wall and how much they appointed in check it out 5:53
Building on the knowing yourself part, I think it's important to educate yourself, look at measurements and specs, and understand how they apply to the gear you already have and the gear you're looking to acquire. That's why I can't really get behind audio reviewers who just tell you how something sounds without their own measurements and comparisons, because everybody is different and just because it sounds fantastic to them in their listening space does not mean you'll find it equally fantastic. But if you have access to frequency response or distortion graphs, that can help you narrow down your search for free.
Even better, if there is an audio show coming to your area go! I love going into rooms with over $20,000 worth of gear and hearing that it actually sounds worse than my humble home system. It's not only a great way to compare products, it also reinforces how important room treatment and speaker placement (and yes, clean power) is to sound. Always feel some sympathy for the manufactuers with state-of-the-art components struggling to make them sound decent in these hotel rooms. If the gear sounds good in an audio show almost for sure they will sound better at home. If you go, bring your favourite tracks with you to play on these systems.
The lateral move mistake is SO true. I've bought so many mid-priced speakers and headphones. If I hadn't bought them I'd have the money for a more high end pair of headphones and speakers. Oh........and The Shining? Famous director gave it away. I was about to say Friday The 13th
Everyone of your comments strikes home. Thanks for using common sense and your own history of being an audio enthusiast to point out these problems that we all have.
One of the most important lessons I learned and it wasn't until much later on (dumb me) is pay close attention to SPEAKER POLARITY. Early on I didn't think it made a difference. I would just hook up the 2 speaker wires. AHHH, IT WORKS, WHO CARES. I would get noise, no bass. I never thought about it much until I read over and over to connect them correctly. What a difference. Better bass?? Probably. Less noise?? Big time!! Food for thought if your new to hi-fi or have been doing it for awhile and never thought it made a difference. It does.... Sam
I noticed you used the Focal Aria’s for your 'don’t do this'-thumbnail. I don't know if you choose those at random, but I agree, the Aria’s are not worth the hefty price: they lack any semblance of bass, lack midrange body and are very bright on top....probably because their crossover component are shite, I owned them and had a peek inside…I sold them within just a few weeks...
Lateral moves are something I am aware of, and try to avoid myself, but have done it lots of times! Oh well. Its only money, and, cool goonies t-shirt randy!
I think it is Friday the 13th, ironically I have seen all of them, except the first one... I love both Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street. I always wish I knew more than I do now, but the more i know, the more I understand that I do not know that much. Atleast I am so smart that I understand how dumb I am, I will say that`s a positive thing, I think.
Hey Randy, nice recommendations/point of view…many thx for that. To me audiophile is a little a bitter sweet therm. I listen to music…most ppl i personal know calling there selfs audiophile, are listening to their equipment. That’s the biggest downside with „audiophile“ to me…not to concentrate to listen to music. But it takes a while to understand that…
But I started out with all used gear from salvation army and started learning how to fix and rebuild crossovers then I moved to designing speakers. But good video this what made me start watching the cheapaudioman
HiFi friends! Long story, but I bought a pair of used Zu Omen DW speakers for $900... The gentleman I bought those speakers from, who is now a good friend, turned my audio world upside down. Tens of thousands of dollars later, I found audio Nirvana with those Zu speakers, a vintage Sansui 4000 receiver ($200) and a WiiM Pro. That blew me away, still does. Then my new audio buddy suggested a PS Audio Gaincell DAC/Preamp. $800 used, and I was further blown away... Then I added a little Cayin EL-84 10 watt tube amp, further blown away. How much did I spend? Not much. I sold one of my DACS to make these purchases, and still had money left over. Used gear folks, make friends, ask questions.
Go to shops if they are in your area! I wanted these $10,000 speakers and then I went and listened to them and they sounded very similar to the speakers I already own. I no longer want those speakers Sometimes there are all these cool reviews for speakers and they can make you think damn those new speakers are very different from the ones you own. Sometimes they are and sometimes they are just an EQ setting change away from what you already own. With the Wiim or just an EQ mess around with EQ settings! Cheers!
So true on the speakers... My buddy has a $12000 pair of speakers in his basement, I was not as impressed as I was with his 2017 Zu Omen Dirty Weekends. I bought them for $900 from him. He wants them back, LOL!
The one thing I wish I had known when I was a young hifi enthusiast is that I would never be happier with my systems than I was with my first. If I could go backwards, I'd still have my EPI speakers and Cerwin Vega D7s, along with the two humble systems that drove them. Now after spending thousands chasing high end, my focus is often on the possibility of better, not enjoying good. It's a tiring place to live.
Same here, tens of thousands of dollars later... I found audio Nirvana with a vintage Sansui 4000 receiver. I paid $200 for her, and she sounds fantastic. Better than most gear you would pay thousands of dollars for, I know, as I used to own that gear. The Sansui is not going anywhere.
+1. I'm with you, and have found some enjoyment with an inherited fisher 1800 that mostly works fine, driving older speakers. Almost bought some Sansui sp2000 to go with receiver. What speakers are you using?
@@1mikeb I have two pairs of Zu's, a used set I bought for $900 off a friend, the Omen Dirty Weekends, and a new pair of Zu DW6 Supremes. The Zu's with vintage and tube gear are simply over the top.
Here's a mistake: Making friends with dealers. In these tough times, dealers need to milk their dwindling customers and milk you they will. Did he just sell you the best new vibration control, then try to sell you the next best new vibration control 2 weeks later? Be very skeptical of these guys, or you'l being making constant lateral moves. I'm not saying this to hate on dealers, they have to eat like everybody else, but he's watching out for his interests and not yours. Oh, and take the term mid-fi with a grain of salt. It means this is what the competitor sells.
Lateral movement is recognized only after the movement. Maybe you have to do the first movement to figure out you commit mistake. Bul fool you if insist on it...
Nope. I've made lateral moves out of interest and because I love bargains. It's easy to spend a couple of hundred because the price should be a couple of hundred more but then hoard the surplus gear rather than sell it on.
I have a very good and simple system. I like it for most of the tracks I listen to, however, I would prefer to have some more body in the mids and vocals. Would adding a Tube preamp help? What else can I try?
Hey Randy. I've been stuck with a medico setup at best. I just got a set of UB5"s an basx A2 from emotivia and a wiim pro plus. I just wanted to say thanks for the guidance!
How about room acoustic treatment ideas. Yeah one can change gear, but what about room reflections and how they deteriorate sound. About 150 bucks of sound panels made my bedroom the room of choice for good sounds. Don’t giggle😂
I rate my audio gear very simply. If I can get mudvayne LD50 to play louder than I would ever listen to it it's good. If not it's trash. Dead easy. Don't worry about being a brand snob. If it's good it's good.
Yamaha has many great features, but tends to be bright in the last two decades. Still, this solid Japanese brand offers a full sound without power compression, unlike most overhyped chi-fi. LRS+ is a fairly neutral speaker, but it's bottom end isn't very emphasized. You might end up with a bright-ish system then. Fortunately, Maggies come with the option of attenuation for the top half which may come handy if you are ready to tweak a little bit.
