Agreed on the 24d. Your mat of rye looks too thin. You need to up your rate per acre to get thicker mat of rye after crimping. Atleast 70 lbs per acre.
Hey Joe, thanks for the comment. I agree the mat looks thin in most spots, and that mix had 75 lb/acre. I'll keep bumping it up until we get to a good level. All the best to you.
@@user-ht1ju9df3m Yup, for a few weeks. Like everything, you have to weigh the pros/cons to determine what works best for your situations and goals. All the best to you.
I would try 43oz of gluphosinate and 43oz of glyphosate per acre. Try to spray on a sunny and warm day for best results. No soil activity, so can plant immediately. Horse nettle has gotten a lot worse since we started using dicamba and 2,4D with glyphosate on tolerant crops.
Hey John, thanks for the tip. Just looked it up, hadn't heard of gluphosinate, but looks good. Am I ok assuming that this mix has worked on the nettles for you guys? I was thinking about the gly/2-4D/Dicamba mix in the spring, but do I understand you correctly that this mix has not controlled the nettles? All the best to you.
@@theback40Yep glufosinate (liberty) will take care of some of the gly tolerant weeds. I just did this yesterday in fact. I mix both. Enjoyed your video.
Here in Mississippi on Enlist (2,4D) and Extend (dicamba) soybeans and cotton, horsenettle has become very tough to control. 2,4D/dicamba and roundup will ding the horsenettle up but never fully takes it out. Plus with that combination you are not getting much out of the roundup due to the antagonism between the two unless you are running an extremely high rate of roundup. I have had better luck with the gluphosinate and glyphosate mixture as long as it is sunny and warm. If it cloudy and cool the gluphosinate will not work. Also if you try the gluphosinate adding 3 pounds of spray grade AMS per acre or equivalent will help.
@@johnc7051 Hey John, thank you for sharing this! Sounds like I should lean more toward gluphosinate. Or maybe I'll end up doing 2-3 burns down next spring/summer with a few different herbicides, and then just plant a fall crop. All the best to you.
Absolutely agree, I was trying to go down the same road with no herbicide, and weeds took over. I’m through 3 fall plantings and 3 spring plantings here in Texas. Each successive planting has been better than the previous of that season. Soil is improving, really encouraged by the results - especially fall crops - after we broke down and sprayed! Tried last spring without herbicide and it was a total failure, even before the drought. Drought was so bad it killed most of the weeds, so I would have lost that crop anyway. If my rye left over from fall crop ever looks like it is thick enough and tall enough to make that 4” mat that chokes weeds, I might try to crimp - but not until then. Thanks for sharing your experiences, Mark!
Hey Curt, so we're getting this thing figured out, slowly but surely. If you ever hear me complain about drought up here in Michigan, you are allowed to smack me. Can't imagine going through that drought you guys had last year. All the best to you.
Hey I’m in same situation here in Alabama. Been trying to go no till haven’t had good success so far. Especially in the spring/summer. I do have a drill like you have. But still not having good stands. Spray every year. Thanks for your videos. Kinda gives me a little hope
Hey Todd, we're going to get this thing figured out for us food plotters. Lots of guys doing it now and testing different methods. As long as we all keep communicating, we can get this done pretty quickly, hopefully in 1-2 more seasons. All the best to you.
Hey Brad, next spring I'll be intensifying the spray, probably add some 2-4D w/Dicamba too. But for a perennial clover plot like yours, you probably need to check into Imox or something like that? All the best to you.
Mark I tried the same process with planting fall food but the weeds take over during the summer. Never had any luck with buckwheat or rye. It just seems like the summers play their draught card, nothing really grows and weeds win. Didn't have access to a grain drill so broadcasting ended up like yours. Your Gly 2-4D mix will kill everything, two applications about 3-4 weeks apart.. I've gone the clover, alfalfa, birdsfoot route. yer round no fuss. Started two years ago after burning everything down with chemicals. Now I just spray 2x a year with Clethodim and Butyrac, and fertilize the plots. Its working well. Good luck
Hey Mike, thank you for taking the time to comment. That plan is exactly what I was doing this year when I planted perennial clover instead of the annuals, but the darn horsenettles threw a wrench in my plan. I'll be mixing up a pretty strong spray next spring with a couple applications spaced a few weeks apart like you did. Hopefully very clean plots to drill in the perennial clover in the fall next year. Then stay on top of any weed problems fron now on! I'm glad to hear it is working for you, gives me encouragement it could work here, too. All the best to you.
Hey Mark, talking with a commercial spraying guy about my hay crop a week ago, his advice is to get weeds early or late season. mid summer in high heat is a struggle. I agree with other comments here about adding 2 4 d. You may need to hit that early with gly and 2-4-d sometimes they add other things to help get the mixture to stick to the plants.
I’m in north central Michigan. I saw a few carolina horsetail and pigweed in summer of 2022. I pulled some of it but it wasn’t a big problem. 2023 I saw more and spot sprayed. I hadn’t sprayed my plots fully in a few years. Three weeks ago I sprayed two of my fall brassicas plots with 41% gly and 2-4d. The kill was excellent so I didn’t do a second spray before broadcasting brassicas seeds and rolling. I have two other plots that are fallow this year (plenty of crimson clover and chicory mixed in with dead cereal rye and weeds). I’m sure I’ll have to spray them next late spring or early summer to kill everything and start over.
Hey Terry, sounds like we have the exact same experience with the horsenettle. Please let me know in a few weeks how the gly/2-4D burn down held off the horsenettle. A couple guys have said it sneaks back after this herbicide mix, so a different chemical is needed for full erradication. All the best to you.
Hey Mark love the content. I have been doing a no till, poor man style plots for 8 years. No equipment other than a hand seeder, and a 4-wheeler with a sprayer. I have to be very honest... I love the concept of no till, but hate the constant reliance on chemicals. I have to wonder if there is a better way. I know you have sandy soil, but I am almost to the point of opting to "lightly disk" , instead of spraying. Thanks again!
Hey Joseph, thanks. I have a buddy that is doing the "light scratching" with his disc for his food plots. Just enough to get the seed in touch with soil, and no more. Then he runs a roller over it and has had good luck with it so far. He's still experimenting with a few of the finer points. But he still sprays, so I'm not sure you can get away from spraying unless you get a roller crimper, OR.....dare I say......go back to traditional tillage (nah, try to avoid this). All the best to you.
I'm a tiller Till and let the sun kill the root system. Usually do 2 to 3 tills. Turnip and brassica come up real well and get big as well. I just splashed fall rye out 2 days ago and I'll go back 3 weeks from now and splash it again. Property shut down is getting close 😅😅
Hey Ian, certainly get great germination when you till. My soil just dries out way too much to keep tilling anymore, has been so much better since I stopped. All the best to you.
I keep my plots mowed in the summer so something is growing most of the and weeds don’t go to seed. A couple weeks before planting I spray with glyphosate and 24d then broadcast. Fortunately I have great soil so I can grow about anything.
Mark I would agree TOTALLY with you concerning weed control. When we tried no till we never stopped spraying for weeds, and still fought mares tail and others to maintain weed free fields. We did not like fighting the spring planting of buckwheat, and then trying to knock it down and plant through it. It was always a challenge for us to get a good summer crop of buckwheat with no weeds and also a quality fall plots later without turning the soil over. We now totally concentrate on our fall hunting plots. I believe your sandy soil lends itself to no till better than our soils. We plant a spring crop now of beans etc., usually last year's seed (for cost savings) just to add a little nitrogen and to cover the soil for erosion. We also have numerous plots planted in perennial clovers to keep the soil covered, and mow and spray them to keep them weed free. We go back in mid July disc or rototill the beans etc. the deer have left and plant our fall hunting plots, as we have sold our no till equipment. As I said we totally concentrate on our fall plots and just try to keep the plots weed free in the spring and summer as we have plenty of ag around us, no need to feed the deer during that time. It has been working for us, but as you said the weeds have to be continuously addressed. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us. Bob
Hey Bob, thank you for the feedback. This whole thing is still in the experiment stage, but we're all making progress to figure out what works for our properties. But what I really want to know is are you recovering well, and will you be able to hunt this fall? All the best to you.
@@rfb7117 Ah, that's good to hear. I have a buddy trying the same thing. Has this been good for your guys? Do you run a culti-packer or flat roller on it afterward?
Yes we do....the cultipacker is a VERY important aspect and the final stage to make sure we have good seed to soil contact. The system of keeping the plots clean, spraying, lightly discing, planting, cultipacking has worked very well for us for a few years now. We concentrate solely on our fall hunting plots, we will be planting next week. Progress is VERY slow with the nerve recovery, will be a year this month since the surgery. I'm still using a walker, but I hope to possibly hunt a little from a ground blind...as I have difficulty lifting my legs. Thanks for asking, God Bless. Bob
Hey Mark. Good video as always. I''m working with a FALL cereal rye and clover planting (drilling when possilble).....and then let the rye grow until mid-July.....when I roller crimp it. Got three full years under this plan so far....and still learning how to manage. The clover then comes on stronger after roller crimping (but it's been growing under that rye) when the rye is roller crimped and releases all that potash that the rye has been holding / storing. I have about 7 acres currently under this program...and building soils on another 3 acres or so. I also will then spray weeds depending on what I got coming up. This year I nuked some of my plot area (3 acres) with 2 qts glyphosate and followed that with a mix of brassica and more varieties of clover as well as some sorghum just for the structure....as you do. Hoping the brassica will grow before the clover takes over in that instance. Also other areas with heavy clover in place.....I just used a mix of Imox to take care of the weeds (mostly horsetail but a variety always). I also drill that with the same mix....but I dont hold much hope as the clover tends to out-compete the brassica. Maybe I will get some good from that effort. It's a crap shoot.....as the clover often outcompetes my brassica growth. .....and I would like a draw in November after the clover has typically diminished. ( Tho.....usually the rye I drill into the clover in Sept. will still draw deer.) The rye mulch also helps with the weeds.....and keeps moisture in the ground too....as well as the fertilizer benefits said above. In late August I'm again drilling (and in some areas broadcasting) the rye and more clover for next year. I guess the rye / clover combination helps with the weed control to a great extent and is the basis of my plan. Keep crowding out space for weeds to grow.....and keep the roots in the ground. (my motto). Tho....your sure right with herbicides. Gotta make it part of the plan. Always more to learn.....and it's a moving target for sure. Generally, I also spot-spray thistles and mullein in June by driving my UTV thru the rye to get to any weeds I see. The rye seems to stand back up after I drive thru.....so no big deal.
Hey Tom, great feedback, thank you! I have been thinking about letting the rye go later into the summer (July) , and you just saved me a year of testing, thank you. Could you clarify which clover(s) you are using here please? Let us know how your experiment goes with the burn down 3 acres with brassica/clover/sorghum plant back. This is pretty much the same thing I just did, too, except I skipped the brassica's. I look forward to getting back to the routine with the rye mulch, but like you, now know I must keep an eye on the weeds and spray when necessary. Like you said, a moving target for sure! All the best to you.
@@theback40 I have been using 5# Medium Red Clover, 2# Alice (ladino)clover, and normally add some others (2# crimson, yellow sweet clover) too....but these are my two mainstay's. Keep in mind....I already have decent clover established....so this just adds to my seed bank and will fill in the weak spots. I put down 112 bu/ acre winter rye at the same time.. Sometimes I will add some GHR, chicory, AWPeas, and ?? what I might have on hand from previous efforts. Diversity is king. I also have some Marestail that came out of nowhere (?) and have mowed the tops off just today. Some say to use Liberty (or generic) to control.....but others say let it run it's course. Several discussions on this on All Things Habitat currently. I showed your video on one thread. Folks like your content. I am done with a "summer release" plan......and feel it's too short of a growing season to try that again.....when clover and rye etc. (above) provide much the same benefits. I dont plant anything in spring....as the rye and clover are feeding my deer when the snow melts. Then they take off to provide fawning cover and food for the doe groups. The deer love to bed in the tall rye in May / June / July.....at which time I will start my new plans. I'm in AZ all winter / spring.....so this plan works great for me.....and it's a whole lot less work than what I did in the past. Still.....I'm learning to be flexible with my plans....depending on what Mother Nature throws at us.
@@tompeterson3296 OK, that's what I was mainly wondering, if the clover was perennial or annual. We are on the same page, that's really what I have been working toward is skipping the spring planting, and letting the rye and clover fully mature and stand until I drill in whatever mix I have yet to determine for the fall planting, which will have to include rye/crimson clover for the following spring green up. Let's keep in touch as we figure this out and get it dialed in. They say great minds think alike!
@@theback40 fixation balansa is a nice clover to include in fall planting, terminates well the following summer with rye to allow new plot seeds to grow. Leaves a lot of biomass as well.
Ima try something a little different this fall and next year. I've been using green covers release blends. I have a ton of ferns on my property, and they are a real pain. This fall I'm going to use some seed from Domain (oats, Comeback Kid and Big Sexy) and next spring going to kill off everything and spray some 2-4D to try to get the ferns under control and go without a spring planting, or plant buckwheat, depending on what happens of course. Just waiting on rain right now to get my fall seed down. I know you can't recall every comment from everyone, but I had mentioned my dad had cancer, he passed away May 20 and its just hard for me right now keeping up with everything. And I found out Tuesday my dog has cancer. So, I need to do something to make it a little easier for myself for time being. This season is going to really suck for me without my dad hunting with me, but I have to keep pushing forward. Good luck this year Mark!
Hey Randy, so so sorry to hear about your loss. This has to be a very difficult time for you and your family. Everyone grieves a loss in a different way, and in different timeframes. Be patient with yourself and others as you proceed through it. May God bless you and your family. I think you have a good plan there for your food plots, put them in the back seat for a while, focus on getting the ferns under control, and let next fall be the time to get back at the plots after your grieving and fern problems are behind you. All the best to you.
I'm also sorry to hear of your loss Randy and about your dog. On a positive note, I planted Big Sexy last year with great results. I just picked some up for $16 on sale and had gotten some Comeback Kid for $10 on clearance. Keep busy doing things that you enjoy. I'm trying to do that as well after losing my Dad 10 years ago. - Tim
Do you do cereal rye layering starting Labor Day(ish) and add more every two weeks until you’ve done it 3 times. You’ll have some growth in the fall but next Spring you’ll have amazing stands of rye. I add forage oats to my CR seeds on Labor Day.
Hey Terry, nope, I haven't done the rye layering process yet. I usually have it mixed with 8-10 varieties of brassica, grain, and clovers. I am going to review my whole food plot strategy this winter, and rye layering may be part of that. All the best to you.
I do a hot mix of gly it usually works well on my weeds since Im limited to when I can get to the property. 2 4 D should help to from what I understand
For the weeds that seem to be somewhat gly tolerant, You may want to try using a mixture of 75% vinegar (diluted), a bit of table salt and a surfactant (dish detergent works). Weed will start turning in about two hours.
Hey Aaron, say it isn't true!!!! I'm in denial right now, so please leave me alone, LOL (of course I'm just kidding). I'm hoping next spring I can really give it a proper burn down with the right herbicides for the job and see how everything responds. All the best to you.
I saw that list you show by Craig Harper. IMO that is a better idea for the states south of you. It does not perform the same here in the north. My 2 cents.
Hey Tom, thanks for the comment. I was wondering the same thing, but decided to give it a try anyways. I've never used winter wheat before, and used Cosaque Oats to get good cold tolerance from the oat portion, and planted the sorghum late. This year is pretty much a mess anyways, all self inflicted, so I'm giving a few things a try. Thanks for taking the time to review the mix and give me some feedback, we'll all learn something from it. All the best to you.
@@theback40 I've tried Winter Wheat and Oats.....but the problem is they wont be there in Spring for me. Winter Rye is the real deal in cold country. It's there through the fall and again the first thing to turn green in spring when my deer are normal starving.
@@tompeterson3296 The winter wheat doesn't make it through? It does here in Michigan, but we don't get as cold as you guys in Minnesota (but we get more snow! Thank you Lake Michigan.) I know the wheat won't have nearly the thatch layer compared to rye, but at the moment I am thinking I will be taking the whole spring/summer to get weeds under control with multiple burn downs anyways. Then plant a perennial clover mix with some grains in late August for fall hunting. Then I'm off and running with my attempt at clover as a living mulch like you are doing.
Hey Ian, actually.....we're doing pretty darn good. Had a few weeks without anything after planting that wasn't looking good, but then got a good 2" shot two weeks ago, and looks like we might get some in the next few days. I'll send any extra we have up to you guys. All the best to you.
I used gly mixed with 2-4D/Dicamba last year on the marestail. I didn't spray just gly on it because it's resistant to gly. The mix of both smoked it really well. I would recommend you look into doing the same. All the best to you.
@@aarongoeppner413 That's exactly what I had planted before the horsenettles forced me to kill it all off. It had just germinated and was growing really well, too. Ugh....
Hey Dan, agreed. I was wrestling with being able to plant immediately so the sorgum had a few more weeks to hopefully get tall enough for hunting season, OR, to add 2-4D in now to really smoke the horsenettles, but have to wait to plant until end of July. So....I chose to wait until next spring to add in the 2-4D and plant immediately. All the best to you.
Hey Wes, good to know. Used a gly, 2-4D, Dicamba mix on the Marestail last year, smoked that stuff, too. I'll spray it next spring. All the best to you.
Hey Chad, I didn't communite that very well....... I DID spray prior to the broadcasting process. I did NOT spray the first years when I was DRILLING in the seed. But you are correct that I was not broadcasting onto bare dirt, it still had debris from dead weeds on top. Sorry for the confusion. All the best to you!
Thanks for the info. So many herbicides to sort through and decide which is best? I'll run recon on this to learn more and determine when to use it. All the best to you.
Hey Jeff, that was for a brand new light duty drill. If you are diligent, have average mechanical skills, and have time, you can find a used drill for much much less. Find local auction houses and get on their mailing list and go to farm auctions. This is probably the best way to eventually find the deal that would be acceptable to you. OR......you could consider "minimal-till" by just lightly scraping the top inch of soil to get the seed contact needed for germination. Where there's a will, there's a way! All the best to you.
I’m in north central Michigan. I saw a few carolina horsetail and pigweed in summer of 2022. I pulled some of it but it wasn’t a big problem. 2023 I saw more and spot sprayed. I hadn’t sprayed my plots fully in a few years. Three weeks ago I sprayed two of my fall brassicas plots with 41% gly and 2-4d. The kill was excellent so I didn’t do a second spray before broadcasting brassicas seeds and rolling. I have two other plots that are fallow this year (plenty of crimson clover and chicory mixed in with dead cereal rye and weeds). I’m sure I’ll have to spray them next late spring or early summer to kill everything and start over.
Hey Terry, careful now, I don't have a pigweed problem....yet. If I get one now, I'm blaming you! LOL!!! Keep us updated on how the gly/2--4D holds up later this fall if you get a chance to go out in the plots and see what's going on. All the best to you.
