I learned this 26 years ago, in school. You are the first I've heard on RU-vid mention it. Why, I don't know, but am more supportive of you for that. Good video, and long overdue at that!
Thanks for the kind words and I too am unsure as to why this is not commonly mentioned. It’s such an easy mistake to make and could easily wind up causing a bearing failure. Avoiding it is especially important in the equipment repair field, it’s very common to weld around bearings and even an unintended arc strike could cause problems. The feeling of “ohh no, what did I do” is not a good feeling lol.
Some learn from others, some learn from making the mistake themselves. Way to help those willing to hear the information. It’s like taping the exhaust on heavy equipment for transportation. It’s might not be very likely to have the valves lining up just right to allow airflow to spin the turbo without oil, but safety isn’t an accident 💁🏼♂️ An old boss said back in his trucking days that a piece of equipment had its turbo bearings chewed up because the engine was in just the perfect alignment to allow airflow to spool the turbo during transport. He had me tape up the exhaust every time equipment was moved.
That tape is mighty cheap vs a turbo lol. Thats definitely a case of easily overlooked, rather obscure/freak accident, but extremely costly. 110% I would use the tape too in that situation lol.
I knew about this, but like you said, I never saw it demonstrated. Now that you have done it, there will be a lot of these demos on RU-vid. Good job with the demonstration.
Thanks 😀. It was fun to do and is far better than just saying “don’t do this”. Even the first attempt the bearing race was smoking hot despite not having arc marks. Definitely should be avoided lol.
Excellent video. Well done. I've seen nothing about this on any other RU-vid welding channel. I really enjoy your empirical evidence approach. This phenomena is why it's important that all the ground straps tying various parts of a vehicle together electrically are in good condition and that added equipment and batteries are tied to the battery ground through purpose made ground straps that route the current around bearings. .
Good info. As a maintenance mechanic im always try to be mindful of how a weld on a piece of equipment. Another possible topic could be welding around sensitive electronic like a PLC.
I definitely need to cover that. The worst is a/c tig. Most machines have a high frequency high voltage pilot arc in the background to keep the a/c tig arc lit as it crosses 0 volts. Well that arc can easily damage electrical components. A/c stick welding can also induce currents/interference with electrical components as well.
When I was a youngster I was lucky to work with a guy who knew his stuff and was super careful. Taught me to always triple check that I'm not welding through any bearing surfaces, threads, electrical connections, brake or hydraulic lines, etc. etc. When you're working on machinery that costs 1000's per day in downtime you really don't want to be the cause of failure. Me and that same guy shut down a municipal water treatment plant for 36 hours by running a mag drill off the computer supply circuit. The socket wasn't marked in any way so it wasn't our fault. As the sayings go, "you can never be too careful" because "shit happens".
Being careful is the best prevention, but situations can always have unforeseen consequences. That outlet mag drill story is a great example of that. Total “ohh shit” moment for sure. Hopefully they labeled the outlet lol.
An here I was welding TO the bearing... They become real crummy but it goes a long way for small gizmos & tools that see hand cranking. IE: Transformer winder. In my country its real hard to find all the cool stuff like bearing rods, pipes sizes that accept the bearing outer race, sections with no weld seams for some telescoping action, and anything over 20GA (1.2mm) wall thickness is called "structural" and have to drive to Narnia to find. I was gearing up to fix the exhaust pipe on my car and I was going to clam the ground on the wheel hub nuts. Pun intended XD. Good to know though. Thank you for all your videos, have learnt so much. Shut up and take my... appreciation!
I could see without a lathe and a lack of pipe sizes you have to do what you have to do. For slow speed use I bet it would work. Nothing something that would work well on a wheel bearing on a car though lol. I never realized how hard material is to find in many countries, around where I am at in the US it’s easy to find almost anything. Although it’s not cheap anymore :(
Good info, Greg, thanks. Note that whenever you heat a bearing up past its temper point, you've ruined it. If any part of the bearing, or race, turns blue, it's done for. No amount of grease is going to save it.
This is a good point! Even if there’s not pitting that you can see/feel by moving the bearing, there could still be a tiny heat affected zone that fails later on.
Great point. I sort of mentioned it on the first attempt, but that race was pretty freaking hot. That was a short single pass at 120a. I could easily see the race getting smoked if someone was welding at 160+ amps for a decent run, just from how hot the race would get. Like you said, definately a bearing failure waiting to happen.
No problem 😀. It was fun making the video, especially because I didn’t expect one roller to get smoking hot like that. I kind of wish I had grease in it, the bearing probably would have caught fire lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Got mine as well thanks Greg!! Figured I'd dump this thanks in a comment already thanking you as not to clutter up the comment section. If you had a pinned comment at the top it might help.....cause I think your gonna get "A lot" of thanks coming your way. Thanks again for another educational video.
Glad to hear it fellow RU-vid certified welder 😀. I am still figuring out something to do with the taco ones. I want to do some sort of cheap sale where the proceeds go towards something good.
Boy you ain't a kidding and it's not just bearings but automotive electronics, on my Ford E-450 there is like seven different modules that must be unplugged before you can weld on it per Ford maintenance manual, weld in the wrong place and do thousands of dollars worth of damage, now imagine welding on a half million dollar combine 😬 hope you got liability insurance for your business. Great video you did some of your viewers a solid 😉👍
For sure, an electronic component could be just like that bearing if it’s in the ground path. If it smoked the bearing I can only imagine what it would do to an ecm lol.
Not trying to polish any glorie here, but I always put a good part of brain effort into where I clamp my return. Also about the surroundings , fire or people/animals can come in the way. This said , I am sure one day I will nail it....
I need to weld (buzzbox, 6013, 40 amps) on some bearing holders in a couple of days, so this is very helpful. I knew on my own that welding through bearings would be very bad news. I will first install the bearing, lightly tack the bearing holders in position, then remove the bearings. I hope this will be ok. Thanks for the tip on grounding not on the opposite side of the bearing.
No problem 😀. Anytime that bearing is in a possible path to complete the circuit a bearing could be smoked. Sounds like you set yourself up for success, good luck with your project 👍
@@makingmistakeswithgreg So I tacked my bearing holders into place ok, 40 amps, but then forgot one bearing within the bearing holder for one small 1 cm weld and yes, the outer ring of the bearing turned a slight blue, and the bearing became a bit less smooth. Thankfully I can easily remove the bearing and I have a lot of them, so thanks for the advanced learning experience.
Most electric over hydraulic service truck cranes ground all the electric through the rotation bearings. Sketchy as hell but it obviously works to one degree or another. I'm gonna pull apart my crane for maintenance and I'm curious to see how the bearings are looking. I'll upload of a video of that when I get it tore apart
Interesting. I wonder how much amperage is actually run through it? At 80+ amps I would think there would be arc marks on the bearings. If they are super greased it’s possible the grease may help. I am unsure, my first thought is the grease would increase resistance. The bearings also don’t spin fast so even a bad bearing wouldn’t likely have much of an issue. Provided it didn’t weld itself together lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I dunno, I can measure the amp draw on mine, mine is a tiny little crane and they come much bigger so id imagine amp draw on the bigger ones are in the hundreds of amps. I'll also look thru the manual for it and see if it calls for any specific grease or anything, maybe a conductive grease or something. Granted it can also ground through the swing rotation worm gears but that doesn't sound like much better of a idea lol.
HELP! Trying TIG and went from ceramic to Pyrex nozzles to see better but now the tungsten just melts into a ball why? Argon is at 10 L/m and Pyrex is #10.
@@Failure_Is_An_Option Thank you! I am a thinker and am figuring it out pretty fast. Wrong flow for too big a cup. Ordered 3/32 CK worldwide over cheap 1/6 and #6 Pyrex. The other problem is I have the best Milller helmet which only goes to 13 I get spots in my vision.
@@TheMiniMachineShop Yup. Not sure about the helmet though. Miller helmet is more than adequate. 13 is as dark as any of them go, and I don't think I've run across anybody that runs full dark, especially for TIG. Make sure the sensitivity is adjusted right. It might just take you some time to adjust to it. Your eyes are protected regardless as there are filters on the glass.
Couple thoughts, hope they help: The clear cups typically require o-rings, a special gas lens, and possibly a different white plastic front cap for the torch (between the gas lens and torch body). If the gas lens is not threaded all the way tight (with the back cap off) it will leak gas. The white front cap/isolator can prevent the lens from fully seating if it’s wrong. If the orings don’t seal properly gas will leak. Also, the collet you use must be correct for the gas lens. If it’s too long the back cap won’t seal properly because it doesn’t thread in enough. Gas flow matters too, you need atleast 15cfh for smaller cups and upwards of 30 with big ones. If the tungsten goes up in smoke and is discolored, a gas coverage issue is to blame. Tungsten can only handle absurdly high heat when it’s not exposed to oxygen. If your gas lens is defective it can have poor gas coverage, I have seen this with brand new lenses. If the tungsten is balling up fast but not producing smoke really, the polarity must be off. It needs to be DCEN (tig torch on the negative) for tig. If it’s on the positive the tungsten will melt. As far as the welding shade, on a 13 you should be so dark that a tig arc at 100amps should look like a barely lit candle from 10’ away. Sometimes helmets have a range adjuster, make sure that shade 10-13 is actually those shades and not shade 5-6. Put the hood on and stare at something outside (with the lens in darkened), if everything looks like a pair of really dark sunglasses and not like you can barely see anything, there is something wrong with the hood. Your eyes may be sensitive to the light as well, which can happen. Miller makes good hoods so your eyes aren’t getting uv light through it, but the light can be fairly bright.
Are you local to mke? If so how could we meet up. I would love to buy you lunch at kopps or martinos or wherever. You have helped me out more than you may realize.
I am local to mke, someday in the near future I may do a meet and greet since there are actually quite a number of people in the mke area that watch the channel. I am Glad to know I have helped you out, that’s why I make the videos because I want to see people gain skills 😀. I am currently working on finding a way to buy a building in mke to open up a shop and if I can make it happen I will be doing open houses and stuff 😀
The first attempt the race was shockingly hot despite not having any arcing that was visible. I bet it would have cooked standard grease it was that hot lol.
That is this one on Amazon:www.amazon.com/Shape-Ground-Welding-Welder-Machine/dp/B07TXV9B8M/ref=mp_s_a_1_17?crid=2QQ4351ESRTE3&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.GZJoOL0htnM26LXKEexGqCC9FCox6ddtbu6VZyMSrOiiaZWZo0IUQX6GZC33n3aKwu3vqjrgfjPPRSDXCJUCt9gqztTlJkhYPddI0arG2HV3RFUNoBNX40jfD-3fRkWdI4PU5TdBYEDDrP9jCb9-o6Z3P60ShSiTWp3RDyngsjyOBRchL-2KE209-HJO_sw6bJ_GFfJlrN_WX2TCQk6d5Q.wm07sxyt_v5NcmEmfWoMit26YNfZ17RdZTLx9J8VdNs&dib_tag=se&keywords=brass+ground+clamp&qid=1722477355&sprefix=brass+ground+clamp%2Caps%2C216&sr=8-17 Don’t buy a cheaper one that looks like it to try to save money, they are not the same at all. That clamp is 100% solid and the best one I have found outside of a heavy duty c-clamp style.
Interesting, didn’t know that. The local manufacturing plant has changed names so many times in the last 25 years it’s hard to keep track of whoever owns it lol.
The welding was done after it was final assembled, right before it was broken down to be shipped overseas. Screw ups like that are more common than you might think lol.
I thought dielectric grease was to help conductivity (though I had my doubts), because they put it on the spark plug before you put the wire on.....maybe that's why they call it Die Electric.....learning something everyday, thanks.
@@john-smith. you have to put a lot on the more the better but you can’t let it get real hot because it will start to break down. I used to know a couple of other ways. But as long as it doesn’t let conductivity it will cut down the chances
@@Nuf_Nivah Because your proposed solution is NOT going to protect a bearing. On top of that you contaminated a bearing. DO NOT PASS CURRENT THROUGH A BEARING. We even have to engineer drain paths to ensure incidental static discharges never pass through bearings. Some motor bearing applications require insulated bearings. Wind turbines are particularity challenging because the rotor bearings are at risk for stray and static charges generated by the blades and the rotor.
I understand the concept and theory, but I've watched guys weld driveshafts in a metal lathe for years with no issue {would never do it on mine!}. I've also done a fair amount of pipe on a rollout wheel and never lost a bearing. I would never on critical components that could cause catastrophic/deadly results-
It all depends on how the current passes through the bearing. If it passes through the rollers it will damage them more than likely. On a lathe if a person is grounding through the shaft the headstock is on, the bearings would likely be fine. If they ground to the housing the headstock shaft goes through (where the bearings are the only actual contact point to complete the circuit) the bearings will likely get smoked at some point just like in the video. All it would take is a couple mini arc marks and the bearing will start to eat itself overtime. The tighter the bearing is the less likely it is to happen, but the higher the amperage or greasier it is the more likely it would be to happen.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Better safe than sorry! I get it! FYI-never buy a lathe from a driveshaft shop,LOL. Love your content man-you come up with stuff that nobody else does!
Hey guys, Iam going to let you in a mechanics secret. The number one reason that U-joints that are on the drive lines of cars and trucks fail is because of a damaged or missing ground strap or cable to the engine starter.
It is not good practice to race into welding anything that might carry oil, a seal or a gasket bearing in mind the risks of fire and or damage from heat input and or sparks. Puns intended!
If it ever happens to you the feeling you get when you realize how dumb of a mistake just happened is almost second to none 😅. Installing an engine you built only to realize you forgot to torque the main caps (and the engine has to come out) is at that level of regret lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I grew up farming. Sketchy is in my DNA. Today I'm an engineer for an earth moving equipment manufacture. I'm by far the most hands on engineer though. I can top your engine with a g-rotor pump I had pulled apart for insufficient pressure and flow. I precision ground the body, the gears, and the cover back to tolerance... well I over did it a little. That's what shims are for. Three of these pumps all stacked together in the belly of a dozer. Everything is back together. Pumping oil back into the reservoir. I look down at my bench and ultrasonic cleaner... I see a bright and shiny shim on a pristine blue surgical towel. Time just stops... did I? Didn't I? No fing way I left that out. You turned the shafts they felt fine... but did you shim it or not? I measure the shim... It's the right thickness. Everything comes back out. It's the back pump so the other two have to come out first. I left the shim out after I gave it another ultrasonic session before assembly. I try to be methodical... but I'm my own worst enemy.
