I asked a 3rd generation carpenter what tool would he recommend for DIYers he said ditch the old school battery drill and get a good lithium battery impact driver. I did and BOY DOES IT MAKE A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE! No more predrilling. The drill will drive EVERYTHING! What I do is go about half way in then back out and watch the wood shavings pour out then I just drive the screw in that way it doesn't split the wood. Works great as it serves the same purpose without having to predrill. It gets the shavings out so the wood isn't expanded too much. So it prevents splitting. Also I find most old school guys just press the impact/drill button at full power all the time. What I do is start slow, to get it started, then full speed at mid length, then right at the last quarter I slow down to barely flush mount the screw heads. Oh and I only use T-25 star/Torc head screws the only thing that is better is square heads as both are harder to strip.
Chopping the sharp end off the screw / nail also works for reasons I don’t understand: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-33IDFPknShw.html
the author does like to from scratch, shaping and trimming wood from large blocks into fine finished products. ru-vid.comUgkxD-QRFQz730FJEh4f9BYSf-nkIMIC9hL_ as another reviewer mentioned, most projects require a lot of high-dollar equipment that most of us dont have the room or budget for. But, knowing how to do these things, even if we wont be able to practice the full stack project, is still great.
Minor correction: Screws hold *better* when they are pre-drilled with a pilot hole. (Removing material for the core allows the threads to cut in a uniform fashion, avoiding distortion. This increases, not decreases, holding strength.) -Good video👌
@@KMSchriver You're welcome. Mamy torque specs assume fasteners are pre-drilled, and nuts are lubricated before fastening because they fasten tighter. That is not widely known, however.
If I ever try to slip any of my woodworking projects through an airport metal detector, I will be separated from the line for a "special inquiry". Hopefully I will not have to pay for the metal detector overheating...
Back in the day, wood screws were the only thing around. You would drill the diameter of the screw for the first board and then have a smaller pilot hole for the second board to cure withdrawal pressure. That still stands today for whatever screw is used today. If you think you are going to get pull out or withdrawal pressure, just drill the diameter of the screw for the first board. The head of screw will cinch up the 2 boards
I've seen screws that have steeper threads in the top third and normal threads in the bottom two thirds. They are meant to pull the board that's being attached tight against the wood it's being attached to. With that type of screw would it be better to leave the pilot hole the same narrower diameter in both pieces?
@@ethanheyne To me, that would be a "test it on a couple of scrap pieces first", preferably on the same type of wood that you are joining together, to see if getting pull out. Different types of woods or plywoods are more ornery than others..lol. If you can get away with just one pilot hole, great, that's less work. But drilling the diameter of the screw in the first board is a sure method. Nothing more frustrating than being in the air while trying to screw something to wall, ceiling, etc and it pulling out. Or if even doing with a glue up, and clamps and getting a gap from the boards not cinching together. My dad was a aerospace engineer, and he always said the the head of a screw/bolt has tremendous holding power. Of course, he wasn't driving brittle drywall screws with some of the more powerful drills we have today. LOL, LOL
As someone with a somewhat limited knowledge of woodworking and just getting into basic carpentry, your videos are a blessing to me. As a result, I'm taking on the challenge of replacing boards on my deck. Just wanted to say thanks and keep up the good work!
I've had instances where I needed to screw boards flat, but had screws that were slightly too long (I didn't order them). In that case, I just angle the screw slightly, making sure the boards don't slide and the screw doesn't exit. Simple but effective, especially if you put the next screw in from the reverse angle. Of course, don't be afraid to pre-drill the holes, especially if it's fragile work such as trim.
Toe in is great and actually provides more strength, but the caveat is that it can be tricky to get the head of the screw flush w/ the board. Another alternative is (if you have the time) to cut the end of the screw that's sticking out so it's flush.
An additional tip when drilling the pilot hole, use a bit that is roughly 1/3 to 1/2 the diameter of the threads. With lag screws or bolts go up to 3/4 of the diameter for the pilot hole to prevent splitinig.
This is a great topic and you’re right about how many subjects can be covered regarding screws. I think what should be added in this conversation is what size hole to predrill. Future suggested conversations... Screw size needed for job Course vs fine thread Types of heads, (pan, flat, button, Phillips, Star etc.) Exterior vs interior Types of lag bolts How tight to screw a lag bolt Others have covered these topics, but you have a unique style that is short and to the point, yet adequate. You also carry enough energy and enthusiasm to keep people focused on your words.
Hi Ethan. Just thinking of a few screw topics that you may want to discuss later. Two that come to mind are different drive options (#2 square / torx / phillips / etc??) and different coatings / materials (a lot of people use the wrong screw type - particularly in CCA treated timber). This video was fairly concise - that's good. A bit more depth in discussion around pilot holes such as when there may be advantage in drilling an over sized hole on the face piece to allow the stock to pull together without binding and when to counter sink may be worth while. Also scewing (angling) screws to improve holding power and fastening from each side where you have access.
I really love the square head screws. Phillips heads are so annoying, as you almost never can tell when they are going to slip on you. And if the screw is inferior metal, you've got little chance of driving it in all the way, unless you put a tonne of force on your driver. Obviously the stronger timber screws are usually ok, but I just loathe Phillips heads.
In the UK Pozidrive are pretty standard, better than Phillips but not as goos as Torx (which I use) or Robertson. Robertson, probably the best of the lot, are almost completely unavailable in the UK except as decking screws occasionally.
@@glenpaul3606 There's a really interesting video about the history and why they didn't take off in the USA ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-R-mDqKtivuI.html
while installing water heater straps in a customers garage, i screwed through a 220 wiring that fed the kitchen oven opposite that wall. when i was holding one of the straps and touched the water heater, things became very exciting.
@@kooale putting a 3/8 lag bolt into a stud to secure the water heater straps. i had not been the house, so was unaware of the location of the kitchen. when i began to wrap the strap around the heater, i got zapped. most likely i nicked the wiring with the lag bolt, so i got a shock instead of electrocuted. i removed the bolt and moved it about 2 inches higher. no issues after that.
I remember when our contractor was drilling through our floor in the kitchen to run a gas line to our new stove. The existing stove was electric and we wanted gas. I asked him how he knew he wasn't going to run into any wiring or plumbing, and he brushed me off. Well, about 5 seconds later things got quite exciting when he hit the 220 for the range. I heard a loud bang and saw a massive flash. Fortunately he was OK.
The Honest Carpenter can give his opinion as mine is just one thought on it. In my experience thread widths can be a problem if they split the wood. Usually once you pick the max length screw you can use without the screw sticking through the other side or at least 1" to 1-1/2" deep in both pieces of wood, the screw's width should be good for that application. Usually predrilling will allow the wood to have a hole but enough wood still to allow the threads of the screw to hold. This also gets the wood shavings out so when you drive the screw it doesn't expand the wood too much and split it. What I do is use an impact driver compared to a regular drill. The impact driver "knocks" or impacts the spinning bit when it slows down due to resistance. You will hear it impact/knocking as you drive a screw into wood as it gets harder to drive. The advantage is the impact driver will DRIVE EVERYTHING no predrilling needed. So what I do is drive the screw (T-25 star/Torc head as they are very hard to strip) half way then back out to allow the wood shavings to come out. This allows the wood to not have to over expand and split. Then drive the screw flush mounted. Also most people just press the drive button on drills/impact drivers at full power all the time. What I do is start slow to get started then press to full power until about one quarter of the way then slow down at the end to make sure you flush mount the screw head instead of accidentally burying the screw head half way in the board. My 70yr old dad still does this even after I showed and explained that if the screw goes through the other end it can't hold the board.
I am watching this great channel from Europe - not UK - and learning a lot. Even though I am ok with the imperial units I would suggest to add also some description in metric units for English speaking audience from "metric part of the globe:) thanks a lot for your awesome work 👍
I am American and I wish we would convert to the metric system here. Everyone else uses it, it makes sense (10 base instead of 12”, 3 feet, ick!), and what kind of asinine system of measurement is empiric? Based on the length of a king, ruler or emperors what? Who the hell thought that was a good idea? Oh yeah, the a-hole king, ruler or emperor. Jackwads.
This explanation makes a lot of sense. I had been taught that, in general, the screw length should be twice the thickness of the wood that one is attaching. i.e. a 3" nail through a 2x4. But I found myself making adjustments.
For lateral pressure (like weight hanging from a fastener on a wall), you can improve performance by adding a vertical metal strip like a TV wall mounting bracket. Once the fastener grips the stud, the friction between the mounting bracket bracket and the dry wall also comes into play to support the hanging weight!
In order to get maximum holding power, drill a pilot hole through both pieces and then a clearance hole through the piece being attached. This draws the piece being attached up tight against the wall.
Thank you, this is good information. The most common critique I hear from TV builders is “don’t use drywall screws for everything, they are too brittle” and as I work on my own home I find the previous owner used drywall screws for everything from mounting a light fixture in the bathroom to hanging wire shelves in the closet. Problem is, I don’t know what’s right. So, deck screws for everything not attaching drywall to a wall stud? I also like screws with something other than the Phillips drive, it strips out too easily.
Great tips. I might suggest adding that you want to avoid driving screws in the same grain too close to each other. This often leads to the screws acting like wedges and the wood splitting along the grain. This can be avoided by observing the grain and altering screw positions accordingly.
My 2 cents, I find that Phillips head screws frequently cam out especially in reverse with an impact gun, I’d suggest star drive or torque drive screws. Square drive is another alternative. Also for different thickness of woods the screw diameter (6 8 9-10) can be very important especially if your using wood that splits easily or is close to an edge. As you point out when shear or hanging strength is needed also is a factor of screw diameter. Pre drilling counter sunk holes & not over driving & use the torque limiting setting on your impact gun is critical to avoid splitting and insure the best connection. For us DYI’s screws (vs nails) allow us to correct our mistakes so much easier than nails due to ease of removal.
Phillips head screws are literally designed to cam out. It was an intentional feature to keep from over tightening. Try JIS, or Japanese Industrial Standard, screwdrivers and bits. They bite much better.
I've used #8 deck screws for years with a #2 Robertson bit for years without issue. I drill, countersink, run in the screws with a drill, and tighten the screws by hand. Typical screw lengths are 1-1/4, 1-1/2, and 3 inches (32, 38, and 76 mm). My personal guide for length is if there is a chance the end will protrude at all, use the next shorter length (ie; 1-1/4" for joining two 3/4" (19 mm) thick boards.
I have always selected the size of the pilot drill bit by holding the bit next to the screw to be used. I select the bit that is equal to the size of the solid center part of the screw with the screw threads showing on either side of my drill bit. It has always turned out to be the correct pilot hole size.
I so wish the whole industry would just switch over once and for all. Larger production runs would bring down the cost, and the bit is almost always included, so adoption is really very easy, whether for DIY or professional applications.
Great video! I nearly always pre -drill. Not only stops splitting but also guides the screw straight so grain won't affect it. I use 4 mm or 3mm for 90% of pre drill holes. I buy these bits in 10s they last for years!
I saw on another RU-vid video about lubricating screws. I've begun wiping screws with a rag damp with WD-40 and let me tell you, it's wonderful. Less pressure, especially on smaller pieces, results in fewer breaks in the wood.
@@dancahill9122 soap may be alkaline so it is not good for metal. But it is not something you have to worry about for some time. Although I have seen its effects in older projects I've done. So it is not like it is something you never have to worry about. Now I use paraffin wax which has more uses in the workshop anyways. Although wax is less common. A box of wax will last you a long time.
Informative video. A type of screw I've recently found useful in the correct circumstances are GRK finish/trim screws These work great for thinner dimensions of wood, especially if it's going to be reinforced with glue. No need for pilot holes and they countersink themselves.
Pre drilling the attachment to the thickness of the screw shaft will enable the development of friction between the surfaces and increases “shear” strength. Love your presentations and tips.
Before I started getting serious with woodworking, I, like many, used drywall screws almost all the time - While cheap and convenient, they are not string and have little shear strength do to their thinness. Heads often break off when using harder or thicker woods and if you have to remove them later.
I have always wondered what the formula was for screw length. Always just eyeballed it. But now I will keep the 1/3 × 2/3 proportion in mind. Thanks for this and a lot of other videos of yours I have recently watched. Keep it up!
3:30 Withdrawal pressure is called tension It can also be called stress which is the force per unit area. Stress results in strain in the material which is the deformation of the material subjected to stress.
When I built my house we used framing nail guns to frame. After that I NEVER USED A NAIL AGAIN! After that EVERYTHING is screwed with T-25, (star head/torc) screws. I keep a 20ib bucket of 1-1/2", 2-1/2", and 3-1/2" T-25 exterior/deck screws in my shed at all times so no matter what I have a screw for the job. I also always keep about (6-12) 2"x4"x8" treated boards in my shed on the floor so they stay flat. They are there year round so they are "dried" ready to paint and use for any and all applications. So if there is a small project I know with (12) 2x4x8s I can usually do it without a trip to town and they have been in my shed for maybe 6 months so they are ready to paint as it is a good practice to let "green" treated wood dry before painting so it doesn't trap the moisture in and rot it. Oh yeah and I try to keep about (4-6) 2x6x8s for the same reason.
@@scottroy6195 They're most common in Canada because of Robertson. They exist elsewhere, but are usually harder to find and are usually known as "square drive" (the non-trademarked generic name, since they're not made by Robertson)
@@scottroy6195 never use phillips on anything but drywall. The screws he shows here we always get in torx or star drive. The bits by makita hold up better and dont cam out on star drive. Phillips head is basically obsolete here for any screw requiring strength
Very good .. One other consideration is grain lines . Sometimes even properly distanced screws of a particular caliber can result in splittage if grain isn't considered
Great video...I find that in every case possible I drill pilot holes...even in something soft like pine I find the a pilot hole allows the screw to bore in without cleaving the wood. Of course in soft wood I drill a smaller hole than in hardwoods. You guys REALLY need to accept Robertson screws...I ache watching you having to deal with Phillips :)
Very helpful! I was looking for this exact video years ago when I was just getting started in the world of DIY. Thanks a million. I'll be sharing this with others.
There are lots of free drill charts available. Pilot hole size are dependant on material, thread pitch, and fastener type. I have a chart on my phone, including tap drills. Makes it easy.
It may be important to note that when well secured, the shear strength is reduced by the frictional hold to the wall by the pull the screw exerts upon the length of the beam against the wall. So if your screws are not pulling the beam tight, then the shear force will be higher than if the board is perfectly pulled flat and tight to the wall.
As someone who is finding themselves taking care of a house for the first time, whose dad is a computer guy THANK YOU for making this channel and these videos. They have helped me save money and be a better homeowner by giving me the ability to make small repairs around my house that a handyman would be overkill for 😭🤘🏻invaluable content.
Put a little paste wax around the tip of the screw, and a little on the countersink head. Makes it much easier to drive. Also makes it possible to use smaller pilot holes.
The problem is that DIYers and noobs tend to have only one box of screws. Screws are certainly cheap enough to have a range available.... and yes, I learned this the hard way, a loooong time ago!
I mean, screws can get really expensive. Especially if you try to make a master kit of them. I've switched all my screws to star drive and those screws are really expensive.
Super helpful; thank you! I appreciate the basics. I'm trying to learn more about handyman things so I can take care of my house myself, and these basic things really help. Maybe a brief overview of which types of screws/materials this would apply to would be useful at the beginning if you make more tips/tricks videos.
When pre-drilling holes, it should be a clearance hole in the top piece allowing the screw to pass-through and held by the head. The pilot hole in the bottom piece should be the root diameter of the thread. (The smallest diameter of the screw between the threads.)
Nice video! You'll also generally want to take into account that matching the length of the section of the screw that has no threads on it (close to the head) to the thickness of the "top" piece will make it easier to pull that top piece snug and "into" the bottom piece.
Excellent video presentation. It can be confusing trying to select a fastener for appropriate use. Please add more videos about screws and nails. Especially nailing patterns.
@@farnorth7314 Agree to disagree. Torx is far superior to any other I’ve used except for just plain sockets and nut drivers. Robertson is certainly better than philips but it’s not the best out there.
Good info on selecting screws with the right length for the job. I've noticed a several woodworking videos skip that info and just tell you or give you the length to use for that specific project and call it good.
I hung a wine rack like the one in this video. By FAR, the better approach is to go into the addic and fix a pice of 2x4 drill it in 4 spots an duse i hooks that go through your sheet rock, through the 2x4" and secure it with a couple of strong, wide washers and a bolt. I could literally do pull ups on my wine rack. For my also very heavy range hood I also took the time to open my wall (very easy to do) and sistered a 2x4 in the right location (placed horizontal in between the 16" studs.) It is incredibly secure. I also installed a pull up rack in my house- it does like 5 different things- dips, pull ups, push downs for tris, etc. I also used multiple 2"x6's." This time, I just went over the sheet rock but I made sure to hit many studs. I used longer, strong screws. The exercise equipment then screwed into the 2x6." If I attached it to the sheetrock, the sheetrock would crumble. All in all, when in doubt, do a little extra work to do it right the firts time and avoid future issues. I also just don't trust scews blindly into sheetrock too much for support of heavy objects- they can and do fail sometimes. For a small picture, they are fine.
Super! Super! Super helpful video! (I didn’t mean that you were the Super. LOL 😂!) I was stumped 🤔 when I went into Home Depot 2 weeks ago trying 2 find out what kind of screws to purchase. This video cleared up my confusion in a matter of minutes! I hope you can make another video about the different gauges and temper strength of screws to buy. I need this information too! However, many thanks for the information you provided in this video!
It could be a good thing to actually make a video on putting fasteners, or drilling into walls, floors and ceilings. There is much destruction that can occur! This would be a great addition to giving people ideas on how to use fasteners. I have myself been extremely close to creating disasters, so I know by experience that there is much to say about being careful..
Very helpful. A lifetime ago when I worked in the trades, Americans couldn't get "robertson" (i.e. square head) screws. I never knew why that was, given that square heads are so much less likely to strip when you sink them or (worse) need to pull them out after years. Anyway, thanks for the very informative videos. Take care.
I've just recently started worrying about what's in the wall. I suspect that many people don't appreciate the risk of damaging plumbing and electrical wiring. It's good to think about how to avoid damaging them.
Got to love those phillips head screws. Just a Canadian still wondering why we use your measurement system but y'all seem to refuse to use our superior robertson head screws
I am so tired of adding 1-1/4 + 1/2 + 5/8 in my head, only having to write it on the wall to check my math and I am a mechanical engineer who is supposed to be good at such things. Can we just go with the metric system already? 32+12+16 = 60... easy peasy!
Square drive screws? I think they're better than phillips, but not as good as star-drive (torx) which many people in the US have latched onto. And I had no idea Canadians had to use Imperial measurements-- sorry! Metric is easier to math for sure, but most of us Americans don't have a background in it, so we just don't think in it; it would be like learning a foreign language.
I was using #6 and #8 wood screws from lowes and home depot, mostly to attach T-Tracks. I found that driving them in, the screw would break, and since it was a T-Track it was very hard to get them out, and I could not just do a new hole. For other projects I would just leave the screw in and cover up the hole, but here I really needed it in that exact spot, and it was the last step on a complex project, so I just left that spot without a screw. I pre drilled, used wax. I finally found that I could order better quality screws from McFeely's, which in addition could be used with either phillips or square bits, never have had a bit break before. It sounds like the screws at the big box stores use the cheapest metal possible, so I was running into defective screws, and getting Candian made screws from the company that originated the square drive ( which I learned about only afterwards ) gave me a higher quality screw. Probably why you prefer deck screws. I would like to know if there are ways to remove screws where the head broke off, or if you have other ideas on this subject. It seems like the products for removing are geared towards #8 and above, and even then don't seem to work that well.
Thank you for the tips. I've been using self tapping drywall screws to predrill It works very well, especially in hardwood. Takes care of the dept, pins the work together quickly, and easy to change out when necessary.
The hardness of the wood definitely matters! I've been used to 2x4s and plywood, and then used brass (a match to the existing hardware) screws on an old oak cabinet. I did NOT drill big enough pilot holes-- the heads of the first two screws twisted right off, just before they were sunk all the way in. Drilled pilot holes bigger for the rest, but getting those busted screws out is a challenge I haven't tackled yet.
@@AS-ug2vq Ok A S thank you for the tip! I think I'll practice that before calamity happens on something that matters, like a highly visible spot on an oak cabinet. Also thinking that brass screws the guy above used might be rather "soft", as brass is a mixture of metals, no? Similarly, an exterior coated screw might be harder or denser than a drywall screw...?
@@Sheila-cm4jy brass is ofc very soft. Drywall screws are hard and brittle. Coated ones are not that hard but coating is very thin so it's hardness never matters. It mostly serves for rust prevention
Good tips! It may help to address threads- course vs. fine-depending on the wood density. Typically, I’ll use fine thread only with hard wood, which should always be pre-drilled. Course threads are best for softwood, and typically do not pre-drill unless it’s close to the end or going into a thin board, which generally creates splitting.
Hi Ethan. I continue to enjoy your great material and awesome delivery. It just makes everything clear and easy. Watching down here in Australia it would be really helpful if you could somehow convert feet, inches and fractions of inches into their metric equivalents. Maybe as a small text box on the screen as you talk...? Anyway, keep up the great work!
@@mikejones-vd3fg Actually, he’s asking about conversion from imperial to metric, not from fractions of imperial units to their equivalent percentages, so the smug response is denotes a lack of reading comprehension, not to mention plain meanness. Try reading a bit more carefully next time, and if in doubt, can it.
You mentioned wire penetration when driving your screw into a wall. A good plumber or electrician will use a metal plate (I believe they are called "stud guards" to protect plumbing and wires). These plates are designed to stop screw/nail from being driven into pipes and wires that cross through studs. They are about 4 inches long and may prevent driving your screw at a specific location. Thought they deserved a mention.
You could definitely do a whole series on fasteners. Because the screws you've been dealing with are for wood, but there's also ones that do metal or concrete
Love this info! I am a crazy DIYer and never really thought that much about screw size and length to compensate for sheer or direction on grain, etc. Thank you!
If you are building a permit required structure you need to check with the inspector. Some jusistictions do not allow drivescrews on any joint subject to shear as they are a lot harder than nails. Some may have additional specific spacing and sizes required.
i literally had a class on screws when i joined millwright union, not only is there grades of them, but also you have to consider threads per inch, so like that lag screw, compared to a machine screw. odd how many difference there are in little spinny sticks
A few things about screws. I only use T-25 star/Torc head screws as they are much harder to strip compared to philups or flathead only square head screws are harder to strip but they are harder to find in different sizes. I use an impact driver as no predrilling is needed as an impact driver will drive screws in EVERYTHING! What I do is go half way in then back out to allow the wood shavings to come out to stop it from splitting just like predrilling does it allows the hole and shavings to come out so the wood doesn't expand too much and split. I always keep 20ib buckets of 1-1/2", 2-1/2", and 3-1/2" T-25 Torc/star head exterior/deck screws in my shop so that way no matter what I have a screw for the job as I only use nails to frame a house after that EVERYTHING IS SCREWED!
I'm going to be building some shelves with "H" frames for the uprights. I was wondering just how far to screw into the cross pieces and this video has the answer! Two thumbs up. Thanks.
Love your work mate. Solid, essential tips and tricks. Great for DIY. Keep it up! Not sure if you've done something on using string lines and levels. If not, that would be excellent. Thanks.
Unless it's been pointed out already... the rule is 2/3, 1/3.... not the aforementioned 1/3, 2/3. Think about it long and hard... if the two materials are of equal thickness...eg. laminating two studs or putting a 3/4" end panel on a 3/4" cabinet box... Your screw would be sticking out the other side by 1/3 every single time. In the case of the cabinet end panel...a 1 1/8" screw... like we do in our cabinet shop. If you follow the 1/3, 2/3 rule... you would use a 2 1/4" screw... and be screwed. 😉
With so many options in thread type and head type (phillips, torx, square, hex etc) I would love to hear your recommendations for various types of situations.
In Canada we have 2 screw types, commonly referred to as Robertson and "those f-ing " Phillips. When I buy any item with screws supplied I always buy Robertson replacements and immediately throw the Phillips in the trash.
Thanks for the 1/3-2/3 Rule of Thumb for screw length... very helpful. Is there a rule of thumb for screw thickness going into the side/end of material? e.g. screw diameter should be less than 1/3 or 1/2 of the material thickness, or similar kind of guidance?
It's worth mentioning, a proper wiring job behind wood studs should be protected (more accurately described, in my opinion, as "indicated") by a wiring plate. I noticed that some places have this as code and some do not. I get the idea: A slightly harder steel sheet clues someone in that something behind it shouldn't be scewed or drilled into it. Optimistic, in my estimation, as someone lacking the knowhow is going to find a way to 'screw' it up. :P
