Don't WASTE $3000 on this Nonsense! 

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No chance of that, I'm too poor to get ripped off! 😥

Even the amp designer James Brown has gone on record many times that the non block letter is the exact same circuit as the block letters and sound the same yet people are still buying into the myth of block letters being a holy grail.

I think if you did the same experiment with 2 5150's you might find similar results. Don't forget there are tolerances in all the components in the circuit. So even a slight change in tolerances especially with hi gain, a slight mismatch in drive levels can produce more pronounced null test. A better experiment would be to send the source to both heads and then bring them back to the DAW and phase flip the second head. Then you can adjust the knobs to see how much you can null them out. I bet you could get better null results this way.

I had my eyes closed while listening to the test and heard no difference in the full mix. Glad we have all these tools to help tweak the extra, barely audible sounds that can muddy the mix. Thanks for doing the test!

All the electronic components like resistors and condensers have some value tolerance (5% typically), so even two amps of the same model can sound slightly different. Metallica's sound engineer told that the time they used the Mesaboogie tube amps for the live gigs they had two identical amp sets and they still sounded slightly different, so the mixing engineer had to tweak the settings on the mixing console depending on which of the two amp sets was being used for the gig.

Glenn, bongs don't make people stupid, the power of suggestion makes people stupid. I've noticed that most of the guys I know that aren't great players and/or songwriters are the ones that have their self worth tethered to the gear they own/have access to.

I would LOVE to see a comparison like that between the 5150, 6505, and the Joyo Vivo. Wouldn't even have to be a long video, just a "hey look at this graph" sort of thing. Love the video, keep up the good work!

Interesting results. I'm not an electrical engineer either, but I suppose that parts tolerances or component drifting due to age could partially explain the differences you found. You might find similar differences in two 6505's or two 5150 block letters just due to a +/- tolerance difference in components. But in the full band mix I did not hear a enough of a difference to think that the 6505 could not hold a candle to the 5150 signature. I'm still with you on the fact that if you want to make the 5150/6505 sound different, change you cab, speakers, mic type, and mic placement. Either way, the mix sounded wicked and that is the most important factor. Not the brand name or the badge.

Great video. Both incredible amps. I have owned both and neither of them ever let me down. I currently have an EVH Iconic and it stands up to both of these every day.

Glen love your show and attitude. I laugh so hard listening to you, it's the pick me up I need every day. Don't change a thing and keep rocking Brother!!!!!

The aging and tolerance on all individual electronic components could account for the small sonic difference. I bet if you test 3 or 4 original 5150 against each other you will see some difference too based on usage and tolerances

I absolutely love your technical analysis part of this video. Comparing sonic profiles, inverting phase between the reamped recordings, all of it. Well done. I'll be using some of these techniques myself when doing A/B comparisons between amps and sims.

Glenn you’ve saved me so much grief over the years. I can’t thank you enough for the work you do! Amazing stuff man!

Bud, how you manage to be entertaining and annoying at the same time, lol , that is a true gift. This vid was very informative, and exposes that some companies will only think of the bottom line. Toddles for now

Cool comparison. I love every iteration of the amp. Any differences are lost in the drums and bass, and they all are monsters.

Wow, I’m surprised two real amps could sound so similar even with the same circuitry. I feel like this definitely puts the debate to rest. Thank you for this test, Glenn!

Glenn, thanks for the background research. I enjoy that stuff and it makes me watch even though I’m not in the market for this amp.

Graphs!!! Finally!!! More graphs please!!!! Thanks for the content! I got bummed out about guitar tech since I studied electrical engineering. I had never seen a producer's take on the issues that bothered me.

So nerdy and cool at the same time!!! :) Thank you for explaining this...

I just picked up a 94 "Script" for $1000 USD. It came with a road case, and is in damn near mint condition. Currently running it through a v30 cab. It sounds immense.

Great Job Glenn! Love hearing you cut to the chase!

Comparing the 5150 signature vs. another 5150 signature in a null test just the same way would be interesting. I'd bet measurements would diverge about as much as with the new 6505. Probably because of component tolerances, especially with the transformers.

Hi man! First of all, I really like you content, congrats! I rarely comment but I though it would be a good time to jump in. At the first comparison (around 8 min) I listened trough a JBL 7.1 headphone I could not hear any difference between the amps. After watching all the signal analysis, I was surprise - but just a little - but then again, I don't have the best hearing. May was all those shows I went in my teens in the 90`s. Peace and long life! 🖖

I think this is the kind of difference expected between two amps even at the same model. There is always some difference on components like pots, resistors and transformers. You should try the same test with two amps of the same model and maybe the same year to make sure. Great video Glenn

i LOVED so much that you showed us the graphs. Thanks a lot man!

Yeah, instead of paying an inflated price for the 5150 (either BL or Script) I just went ahead and got the 5153 50 watt Stealth. I have not regretted my purchase at all. If someone needs the 5150 badge that desperately, the EVH amps are fantastic. I got mine for the better clean channel and the built in midi for channel switching.

Hi Glenn! Love your efforts to bust false guitar myths and protect consumers. I have a new video suggestion that falls into the "tone is in the hands" debate. Soft vs. Hard picking. Tied to the notion of "heaviness" of metal, it always seems like in metal it's generally cool to say that you pick hard. People argue that picking harder sounds better, especially in genres like thrash metal, but this advice both feels relative (what even is "hard" picking?) and there are many guitarists in metal that seem to pick very lightly and yet their sound still sounds huge (Bill Kelliher of Mastodon comes to mind). I know you did a video 9 years ago about tone is in the hands. I think your new video should do a similar set of experiments but this can focus on hard vs. soft picking. A) What does it mean to pick hard? (Is it deep picking depth? How tightly you hold the pick? How wide your hand motions are? Or how large the sound wave that is produced is?) B) Between two great guitarists where one is clearly a harder picker, is there any recorded difference playing the same track? C) If there is a sound difference, can you as a producer fiddle with amp or EQ settings to make the soft picking sound the same as hard picking? Might be a long-shot, but It'd be cool if you could do this test with Matt Heafy and Corey Beaulieu of Trivium since they're both great, play thrash-inspired metal, and Matt has publicly teased Corey about being a light picker. Could be a great interview/experiment video. Thanks!!

Great work Glenn. Love these proper analysis pieces you do. I come from a HC punk background & quite a few players in our scene rave about 5150’s. The comment about the 5150 “speaker” cab I loved. I had one for a week before I ditched it. Christ it was awful but I managed to get more cash for it than I paid new when I sold it a week later! Fools eh!!! Keep up the good work Glenn. P.s how about a look at D.I box review as cannot seem to get the countryman 85 anymore

Hi. Im Rob. I’m not a technical guy but I know what sounds good. I really appreciate your time in making and posting these videos. I’ve learned a great deal from you and I just wanted to thank you. Rock On

Curious to hear the difference on the green channel with crunch on + a tube Screamer. It was a very popular use of the 5150 for rhythm guitars rather than the red channel. (But I admit it's pure curiosity/geekery from me haha !) Cheers Glenn, keep up the great work ! 🤘

One of the best videos you’ve done Glenn. Great history info 😊

If tubes=better sound, then a set of brand new pickups makes me a better guitar player 🤓

Love how you do it in a full mix Glenn. At the end of the day that’s how we hear it, complete - whether live or recording. Btw, no opportunity to Gibson bash in this at all? 🧐

I'd love to see you do this with two actual block letters or two 1992 originals. Let's see what the tolerances are of the same amp because I think that would lead us to even more answers. Great video and nice to see something that's quantifiable put in front of people.

I avoided the whole issue by buying a used Bugera 6262 Infinium (6505+ clone) for a few hundred. Swapped V2 & V3 tubes with 12AY7's to tame the gain a little and I can use this amp for anything from classic rock to metal.

Great episode and yeah you pretty much already called out what I was hearing between the two. On the red other than the initial shift they are extremely close. The Green signal is pretty self described as you listen there are obvious volume differences. Yay music science!

I had to swap my amp’s tubes because the old ones failed. I also bought a used Jensen speaker to try out. For the price the used speaker costed me vs. the price of new tubes (the cheapest JJ’s I could find), I’ll invest faster in a bunch of speaker swaps before I invest in a tube swap just for fun! The speaker swap made a HUGE difference! Thank you Glen!

Amazing video! I love these informative, journalistic style videos.

This is awesome. I remember this argument. Bought signature in 2009 for $400. Lo and behold it sounded exactly the same as a block letter in a Mesa rectifier cabinet. I still stand by you only Need to amps. 5150 and a fender twin reverb case closed

Fantastic video! Very thoughtful and informative. I’m curious if you have possibly considered doing a follow-up comparison with a fully re-capped and re-tubed block logo 5150? The electrolytic capacitors in the 1992 are 31 years old now if it hasn’t been overhauled. Somewhat like comparing a brand new flashlight to a 30 year old flashlight still running on the original batteries. My hypothesis is that the old one will respond quite a bit more like the new amp, and more like it did when it was brand new 30 years ago. While tubes and electrolytic capacitors will continue to function well beyond their best performance age, they do degrade over time.

Man, I`m glad I only play acoustic guitars. Our band`s all Peavey setup in the early 90s (before the fire...besides the Ampeg bass amp), had a crystal clear pristine wonderful sound. When I let other drummers sit in for me I was blown away by how great they sounded. Not sure how old our stuff was but it was a beat up collection of what we could scrounge up. Hartley Peavey was always good to musicians too. I respected them a lot.

Slightly off topic, but if I may offer something about tubes I've learned from experience. The only time I felt tubes made a difference is if the sets you use have a matched plate current or not, particularly in the power section. Many years ago, I replaced the power tubes in a Reverend Hellhound with a set that I got from the store (just any EL84 they had in stock - same brand mind you). The sound didn't necessarily change, but the response and feel did. After noticing this, I bought a matched set directly from Reverend and the original feel and response came back. Another caveat was that I was not playing anything high-gain (the Hellhound couldn't keep up with that), so I don't know if matched or unmatched plate voltages would make a difference in a metal context. Anyways, food for thought...

I've had the heads...but prefer the combo which cost me £400 and kept it for over 20yrs now... I never buy new these days ..ever! So yeh even second hand prices are a joke these days...you're spot on here buddy

Great vid. I'm not a metalhead, so some of the earlier bands' examples really didn't hit with me, but I think your overall take on this old amp vs. new amp issue is valid, and you support it with graphs, which is cool. I.e., trying to save guitarists money so they buy into actual sound, instead of hype. As for the sonic differences, one wonders how much those differences would really matter when you've got the signal going into the amp has already gone through dirt boxes, EQ's, different guitars producing the signal, etc. Peace.

it's amazing how a volume produced amp like the 5150 gets bumped up like bananas in price because of a famous artist's name being put on it.

Cool video. Love the seeing actual data to back up what we are hearing.

love ur videos glen keep it up bro

Carcass Heartwork tone is a pinnacle of death metal tone.

Great video! I have the signature 5150, for just over 23 years now (owned 2, 1st one was stolen). It's my favorite amp ever, nothing has even come close for me. I also see asshats charging stupid prices (or attempting to) for guitars that aren't rare at all...like over 3 grand for original Peavey Wolfgangs and over 8 grand for Ibanez JEM 77FPs (2nd most produced JEM in the line's history, they are NOT rare). Thanks for informing us of this very cool and useful information! 🤘🤘

It is true lol I owned a block letter just for the sake of owning one. Got it for around $850, which is a good price in todays market. It sounded no better than a stock 6505…in fact I think my block letter sounded a little worse. Lmao I went and got it tuned up and retubed and biased and it sounded better for sure. But then I compared both the 5150 block and my 6505 to a EVH 50 watt stealth and it smoked them both! Sold the Peaveys and still have the evh.

Picked one up in 04, banged it around for years and once dialed in it never lost it's tone, tubes or spring. Loved that head.

I’ve owned like 5 or 6 different block letters and they all sounded different there was 1 that stood out hands down better than the rest

This is very interesting, but I'm wondering how much variation there would be between two classic 5150 heads or two modern 92' original heads. Anytime you have a board with capacitors there's always a range of accepted tolerance (i.e. variation), very small, but would still probably show up with the type of in-depth signal analysis you're doing here.

I definitely smell more ambiance from the original tubes. There is an openness to the aura from the tube glow that is hard to deny. I also believe the copper wires from the 1990's had more free room for the electrons to move through.

Man this makes me wanna go get some greenbacks more than anything. That sound on burn my eyes is insane!

I love your channel. Long time guitar player, but new to home studio's. In process of puuttingbone together.

Hi Glen, thanks for all the info. I want to know: is there any noticiable improvement in tone, at the same final volume, when using an attenuator to crank the power tubes of an amp?

Back in the '80s I was told "you need Russian tubes, they're the bestest!!" 🤣🤣🤣

I had the block lettered combo version 11 yrs ago. Don't know how old it was because I didn't have it that long. When I tried it out, I played a strat through it and couldn't believe how it nailed SRV tones so I bought it. The main reason I got rid of it was because even with wheels on it, it was backbreaking to move in and out of the car.

I just got a 1992 Peavey 5150 blockletter amp. Peavey Serial number lookup verfied. Block letter 5150 were made from 1992-94. 1995 was EVH signature models.

If only there was a way to calculate how much money Glenn has helped musicians save over the years. Die hard fan of your channel! Cheers from KS!

I love myths like this, it implies an emergency meeting where all the electrical designers, factory floor foremen, acquisitions and upper management all sat round a table and said "Look, because we're changing the font of the die cut logo we need to come up with an entirely different circuit." "Why?!" "Because of Reverb and guitar forums". "Say no more, boss!"

love your stuff! There's a video out where a guys is saying the same thing about the brand new Marshalls having the cheap Vietnamese OT's. I tried to scroll down to see if any one mentioned it yet. Sorry if so! Keep it true, as always!!

i just bought a nearly new condition 6505+ 112 with the intention of converting to a head after seeing your video on this now im on a mission to load a pair of 4x12s just as a vanity project mostly but it will be fun lol

I have ruby 12ax7's in my Peavey classic 120 that have been in there since 1997 and last time they were tested they were still good and showed almost no wear. I gigged the hell out of that amp for years. Ruby's were good tubes.

Just dropped money on a 5150 earlier this year and it's money well-spent. It's currently rocking a Hercules adapter, Adlib clone, and DOS 5.0 on the C: drive.

Knew a lot of guys back in the day that played the 5150. Was a great amp, but my default setup was a Mesa Boogie DC-100 head through two 5150 4x12 cabs (or a single slant back 5150 cab in smaller venues). I also recorded with that setup. Very versatile and loud (when needed). Our other guitar player used a Mesa Dual Recto / Marshall cabinets setup. His sounded great too, but I always preferred the EQ feature on the DC-100 head.

This is a useful video in the sense, that the differences are very minor; I could not hear any difference in the mix. The problem is, that what difference there is may be due to manufaturing tolerances in the components etc. Can't really test that with sample size = 1.

Carcass used Marshall heads in 1980s and 1990s. There's a great homevideo of Carcass during heartwork days were Mike ammott seen playing an ibanez rg550 neon orange adjusting his Marshall head. Carcass broke up after or during heartwork. Highly doubt that Carcass used this mighty 5150 head. Ive seen Carcass live during heartwork tour too, they had Marshall jcm900 or jcm800. Mike hicky was also in Carcass too Mike is currently joe bonamassa tech too🤘 Whole Carcass sound is based on Marshall. Pretty sure Bill Steer still uses Marshall with his gibsons. This is really an great video Shootout really like frequencie part. Maybe if you frequency the amps for different tubes thru indentical amps this would clear things up too. How a part2 of that tube amp video. Great job on your diet and studio background looks great dig the neon light sign. You two more light signs one Change strings tune guitar other Stopping cupping the Mic 🤘👍

Hey Glenn, awesome video man. Just curious but where have you got the information from that burn my eyes by Machine head is recorded with greenbacks? I always heard an read that rob used Marshall Cabs with V30s

6:36 A thumps up for your editing guy Glenn! 😄👍

If I understood it right, I can say that in terms of electronics the results of a distortion in front of the amp can be due to some tolerance of parts at the input stage that have more effect if you are going away from the range of the guitar impedance while the re-amp probability more holds the impedance (I hope the idea is understood because it’s really “not going deep in electronics”). BTW - I bumped many times into “Peavy valveking”, I saw few videos and it sounds good, do you have any experience over it? In the price range that I saw it - I think it may be something for people that want tube amp on a budget.

I'd like to see you get more 5150s and 6505s and test them because I've always heard people say their (insert amp) sounds different

I couldn't hear the difference in the full mix. But the single loss is interesting and this is a good opportunity for a bit of an experiment. If your 5150 is still original you could take it to tech and have them service it. Recap it, check the resistors, solder joints, jacks, and pots. And then run this test again and see if you get the same result.

Most components like resistors and capacitors have a fairly tight tolerance these days. The potentiometers are another story. They can vary 10-20% easily. Transformers can also vary a fair amount as well. Those old Sylvania 6L6's Peavey used to use were not matched. They just grabbed a quad and stuck them in the amp. I still have the original set from my old block 5150, they varied about 10mv. Bias can affect the tone, from the factory those amps were biased cold so the tubes lasted longer.

Have you done this with the 5150 and the 6505 (05 and up model) I'm curious to know if there's a difference in those. Great video!

Hi Glenn. Can you review the Fender Ton Shitster Pro? I can't find anyone to tear it to pieces when it actually deserves that, and you seem like the perfect dude for the job. Pleasee!!!

Hey Glenn. You rock! Any chance you can do a review or at least give your take on the Gibson 70s explorer??

Colin Richardson did some of the greatest guitar tones ever in extreme Metal. I also think his work on Napalm Death's Utopia Banished is under-appreciated.

Thanks for the measurements, I think everyone apreciates it ^^

I'd be interested to see this repeated with two brand new amps of the same model, just to see if there's any measurable sample variation, and how it compares to the measurement differences of a new vs old amp.

Glenn, your to-do list is certainly full enough, but here's a thought. When you do these comparison videos and the results come up "there's a difference, but it's minor", it'd be interesting to make a small attempt at matching the two outputs by way of EQing/etc one of them, so that they sound close enough in the full mix. In other words, and using this video as an example, it could answer the question of whether it's actually worth buying the reissue amp, or using a standard 6505 + adjustments would work fine.

I think what's going on in the question around 13:00 is actually pretty simple: tolerance stacking (and component aging). All electronic components have some tolerances, and values can shift ever-so-slightly when they age. The resistors in my own 6505 combo have 5% tolerance, for example. Capacitors and resistors in the tone stack will have an outsized effect compared to, say, the capacitors in the power supply rectifier. Tolerances will stack up over a big circuit, and the results are two different amplifiers are always going to give slightly different outputs. I believe if you shot out two old 5150s, or two new 6505s, you'd see similar results. Regardless though, they both sound the same to me. Only difference is in my eyes (frequency response graphs), not my ears.

GLENNNNNN!!!! Serious question. I'm sure you've covered this before, but what is the tonal difference between tube vs. solid state heads? Is it a real thing, or is it all about how you dial in your sound on each? And on another note... why is my Vox AC10C1 tube amp just as powerful as my 100 watt Randall Solid State going through a 4x12? What do I know? I'm a bass player...lol

Remember the Genelex Gold Lion tube craze in the early 2000's anyone? "what did you hear ?" is the key. Well done.

Different components have different tolerances. Modern day resistors used in designs (unless you're in a power circuit) are 1% tolerance and should be pretty closely aligned. However, other components such as transistors are likely to be where you'd see these tolerances come into play. The difference in transformer almost certainly makes a difference because it's going to affect how the signal drives the rest of the circuitry. Since you asked about harmonics: a pure sine wave is a single frequency, but when we talk about a note, it isn't a pure sine wave. There are other frequencies (harmonics) mixed in. A harmonic specifically is related to the wavelength used to produce that frequency, and they happen to be whole integer fractions of the base frequency (usually referred to as the fundamental frequency). For example, a 1m string vibrating would have harmonics at 1/2m, 1/3m, 1/4m, etc with each of those wavelengths corresponding to a higher frequency. When you add distortion you're increasing the volume of those harmonics, as well as adding additional harmonics to the ones already there. I believe the graph you're looking at is telling you how much each harmonic is boosted across frequency. Normally when you look at a frequency response graph you're only looking at how the fundamental frequency is affected. Going back to a guitar, bass, etc. even a single fretted note is not a single frequency, but a group of frequencies. So by looking at the harmonics in addition to just the fundamental you can get a larger picture of what the signal chain is doing to a real world instrument. Hope this helps!

I'd be curious to see if you do the same test with 2 exact same amp, I was always told that every single amp has slight differences between each other. Most of the time, those slight differences are neglactable to my experience.

I think the difference is negligible at this point. Having a block letter 5150 is just a collectors items kind of thing cause it’s old. I remember comparing the 6505 with one, and thinking they were identical. I went the 6505 cause it’s simply newer.

I only heard the difference at the end of the mix in the beginning of this video on the rythm part (without looking at the video) and in the A-B comparison as verification. Personally I conceive the minor addition of high mids and reduction of a bit of the lows as a "newer" amp/sound most of the time as a "fresher" sound so to speak. My first guess would be the age difference of both amps components, more played in and possible dust buildup if you want to go that far) but it also could be production tolerances and the differences thereof in both centuries, or a unknown change in component design (like the transformer) to i.e. meet specific regulations on the production of these. Very interested how multiple of the 6505 '92 compares amongst each other as I've heard the old 5150's also could sound a bit different back in the day, apart from the tone inducing stamp on the front of course! My prediction is that they would sound more similar to each other thanks to recent production tolerances and automatization. Thanks again Glenn for the great content and the food for thought!

In 2013 I picked one up for $120, original 212 combo. Dude had it sold already for $100 and I offered him an extra 20 if he'd cancel the other sale. It wasn't pumping sound because of a blown noise circuit, despite being very low hours. Got it repaired, cleaned up for $300. So for $420 I got a kickass amp that was hardly used at all.

nice one Glenn, thanks \m/

I’m always down to learn new things 👌🏻 Perfect

I'm wondering if it's just component tolerance differences. I once had 2 dual rectifiers that were made within about 2 months of each other and they sounded slightly different to each other as well when using a switcher to the same cab. Nothing that a tiny amount of twisting the knobs wouldn't really account for, but the difference was there. Wondering if this is the same deal. Would be interesting to see if you could borrow another few of these amps over the coming months to see the differences in the manufacturing tolerances.

Still have my block letter 5150. Got it at a pawn shop around '94 for about $350 I believe. Still rocks! Think I'll keep it.

That Shefield EVH 12" speaker is amazing in my custom EL84 tube combo . I play blues and rock, and the tone is excellent

Very ear-opening. Great video.

Great T-shirt!!!!

A lot of artists don’t even use the gear they endorse, especially in the studio. They go so far as to put different speakers in the cabs, use a different amp behind the stacks on stage, or even not use physical gear at all and use something like Kemper. Besides, the brown sound was better.

The distortion graph is the amount of harmonic content introduced as a function of frequency of the fundamental