Dongsun Kyokuto Santoku Knife Review: Chinese VG10 - 10cr15comov 

I understand and acknowledge the intended usage and target audience for this particular knife or set, which is primarily home cooks. In future videos, I will make sure to clarify this point and address it more explicitly during my reviews. However, I also believe it is crucial for manufacturers and brands to move away from solely catering to this aspect and focus on improving knives for home cooks. Let's be honest, most home cooks won't notice or be able to judge the finer details such as balance point or weight, especially if they have no other point of comparison apart from cheap dollar store knives or random knife block sets that may look premium but are made from low-quality materials. However, in order to bring change, I need to become more strict in my evaluations. If a knife is comfortable to use over an extended period, it will automatically feel good for home use, even accommodating various unconventional gripping styles. Additionally, as the prices of some knives increase, I have higher expectations since they are no longer competing in the cheaper knife market. There are certain aspects within the kitchen knife industry as a whole, regardless of the manufacturing location, that I would like to see changed. I have been fortunate enough to experience great handles from various brands, which allows me to make informed comparisons when evaluating a new knife. Consequently, I tend to avoid certain knives from different brands due to handle shape concerns, instead opting for more traditional handles when purchasing unknown knife brands online, where I cannot physically touch and feel the knife. For example, with a western handle on a 21cm Japanese-made knife, the handle is often too small or narrow for my larger hand size. While this may not be an issue during a brief 5-minute cutting session with most knives, I make a note in my reviews that the handle may not be suitable for those with larger hand sizes. A 23/24cm knife from the same brand would solve this problem by offering a larger handle to accommodate the larger blade size without shifting the balance point (but will be heavier and harder to control for some). If there is any point of discomfort, it is important to address it. However, in most cases, the handle may initially seem good but can cause hand cramping when used for prolonged periods. This is why I have tended to prefer traditional handles over more daring designs in the past. In the case of the knife I reviewed, there were various design problems related to the handle. Specifically, there was a strange noticeable bump that rested on bony parts of my hand, which is difficult to capture on video or in pictures but can be seen with the naked eye if closely examined. This could potentially be a manufacturing fault, but I can only judge based on the knife I have. However, after going back to various other handles, I found that none of them caused discomfort or rested on the bony parts of my hand. While this may not be a significant issue during a short usage time, it becomes more pronounced and uncomfortable during extended use. While I agree that the knife has good features, it is important to prioritize the comfort level as it ultimately determines the knife's usability. An example of this is the Grandsharp handle with its aesthetically pleasing Abalone shell, which is a great feature. However, it has a significant downside of becoming slippery with even the slightest drop of water, making it impractical to use. These types of drawbacks render certain features obsolete. As a result, I have changed my testing standards and my perception of certain handles. In the past, I encountered similar handles with similar design features, but they were so uncomfortable that I never released reviews for those knives. This was due to issues such as bad heat treatment, poor quality control, cheap wood selection, and other flaws, making it a waste of time to create a video review. However, I have since discovered other brands with similar-looking handles that have been executed exceptionally well. Therefore, it is evident that the handle design can greatly impact the overall user experience. When handles are thoughtfully designed, with contours in the right places, they can provide comfort and accommodate various gripping styles. This indicates that it is possible to create well-designed handles, which raises my expectations for other knife manufacturers to follow the same principles. Hence, it can be frustrating to create videos that are not entirely positive toward a product. However, I believe it is necessary to do so so that the knife industry as a whole can improve. I hope that the manufacturer of the knife I reviewed, Dongsun, takes my critique seriously and actively works on improving future designs before mass production. Compared to five or more years ago, Chinese-made knives have shown significant improvements, surpassing some manufacturers outside of China. While there are still occasionally questionable decisions, overall, there have been remarkable advancements that I would like other knife manufacturers to adopt. You may be familiar with my love/hate relationship with certain knives made in China, especially at the beginning of my channel and prior to starting the channel. After testing one bad knife after another, I almost lost hope (this channel would not have existed if I did). However, fast-forwarding to today, I see many positive changes and improvements being made. I am now able to distinguish between the good and the bad based on pictures alone, which has helped me in selecting knives for review. (I admit this one in the video was a bad call which I'm more disappointed in myself and proved that my knife-selecting skills based on spec sheets and pictures alone are not good). There was a period where I lost my enthusiasm for reviewing certain knives due to the lack of improvements being made. However, I am pleased to say that my excitement for knives, particularly Chinese-made knives, has changed due to the progress being made. This is why I genuinely hope that many other brands will follow suit and adopt the new higher standards that I expect from them, as I now know that it can be done. I have waited a long time for manufacturers to address certain issues such as grind changes, and being able to see and try these new grinds firsthand is incredibly exciting. Additionally, many of the major flaws I pointed out in some of my earlier videos have been addressed and fixed, indicating an improvement in manufacturing standards. (hence my focus on the inconsistent sharpened bevel as I want to see this being improved!). With that being said, I may bring up older brands that I purchased years ago and point out every single flaw. In my honest opinion, some of those knives should have never been made in the first place. I have avoided reviewing those knives, but I believe that people deserve to know what they are getting into if they decide to purchase them.

Going to pin the comment as I have written a bit too much in the reply but it can be valuable information for others.

@@chefpanko we appreciate your time and effort to make videos and write your essays (I mean replies)!

@@tjay1305 😂

This is not a concealed full tang, just a premanufactured handle with a rod inside, and there’s a hole in the rode for decorative rivet, it is pretty clear in their product descriptions.

Glad you finally got your Shibata knife! They have been out of stock very fast whenever they get back in stock here it gets sold out pretty much immediately after getting a notification of it being ins stock. (looking at the website where I bought them it seems like it is sold out again for almost all versions except the 8cm Petty knife). I would suggest a nice ceramic whetstone. If you can be on time with maintenance you can skip most of the lower #grits. Or just get a few passes on a higher grit #3000#6000 to maintain its edge. Just a few passes should not take more than 1 min if you are on time to add it to your weekly routine (if used at home). I heard that some have great results with a leather strop only and that the edge is still going strong after 8+ months but that is something I can't confirm myself as I do hit my knives on a whetstone occasionally. Hope you will like the knife for years to come as it should easily last you a decade!

The one with a blonde handle? or the Black handle with AUS10? I have the AUS10 Black handle that I liked, can't comment on the blonde handle never tried that one but heard good comments about that one from others. This one in combination with the knife style wasn't it for me, unfortunately, the blade is good no complaints there besides the inconsistent sharpened bevel and the logo.

@@chefpanko black handle. The body has an almost matte finish to it. Right near the edge it has an mirror polish. On the body it says 3 layer composite steel.

@@davewong73671 aah that one I have reviewed I liked that one too. And it included a free saya/scabbard at that time it was a great deal, prices have gone up since tho.

yeah, otherwise it would have been great! But from their comment on Helix, it seems like he did like the knife handle on a different knife style. But I have to be very critical with my reviews after experiencing so many different handles in any shape or form I simply have to address the things that absolutely need to be improved. The good news is a lot of the past problems are actively being worked on and being improved. So I highly believe that Dongsun can make adjustments for the newer series. The same for the logo roughness there is no excuse for Chinese brands to keep using sandpaper-like logo printing. While many Japanese brands already have a laser-printed logo where the logo is seamless and not feelable. Xinzuo/Hezhen also uses the same type of logo laser printing so it is time for other brands to follow along! Very excited about the other knives that I'm currently testing. Where the daring handle design is actually good.

@@chefpanko Speaking of logos, I have to point out how poorly Shun made them on their Kaji series (their premium SG2 line). I was cleaning a new Kaji that I purchased form Sogo dept store (so 100% real product) and the Kaji logo just came off! I was using alcohol to clean. It seems like the logo was just an oil based paint!

@@theredbar-cross8515 I never cleaned my knife with alcohol so good to know! But yeah the logo will all fade away over time. since I stopped working in a restaurant none of the logos have faded or stayed the same after my restaurant time. But when I worked in the restaurant all printed logos will fade away extremely fast. So the logo fading became normal in my eyes, the only thing that did bother me was the sand-paper-like feel. For Example, the Grandsharp logo I tested had a very rough sandpaper feel #low grit rating. The Dongsun one also sandpaper feel but is a lot better than the Grandsharp one # with a medium/higher sandpaper grit rating. And then you have Xinzuo/Hezhen entirely smooth not feelable at all. So that is how my logo criticism point started and why I started mentioning the logo. So I hope that by mentioning it, those brands that still use sandpaper-like logos will change that. Speaking of Sogo, I most likely go to HK in November/December as a short stop/hub as I plan to go to Thailand and will probably stay in HK for a week in total. I will be visiting my favorite store in Hong Kong which is ironically Don Quijote (Donki) really happy the last time I went to Hong Kong to see one of my fave stores in Japan finally being opened in Hong Kong. (the song they played stuck in my head ''Don Don Don Donkiiii''). Hopefully, I can get some more interesting knives, and also plan to search for some knives from Thailand. Also got to try the Durian Pancake (will be going with a friend that suggested that I must try that in Yueng Long). As I tried Durian once and did not like it and never tried it again, she wants me to try the pancake as according to her it will change my mind about Durian (after that Durian Pancake I will love Durian is her claim).

I have the Xinzuo ZDP189 a review will come. Along with other knives from Xinzuo/Hezhen that are currently being tested. Xinzuo series: Feng Series with imported Japanese SRS13 Steel (Chef’s knife and Nakiri) Lan Series Santoku (10cr15comov & 14CrV3MoNb Powdered version) F2 Series Nakiri (10cr15comov but a Damascus layer with acid bath treatment) PM8 Series (Tall Nakiri) Hezhen Series: Master Series Chef’s knife (imported Sandvik 14C28N steel) Elegant Series Santoku white and wood color version + a Cleaver (14CrV3MoNb Powdered steel) F2 Series Chef knife (coreless 110 layers Damascus Steel) along with: ZHEN Series Chef’s knife (ZDP189 steel imported and heat treated in Japan) Disclosure of all the above-mentioned knives except the 14CrV4MoNb Lan Santoku (bought by me) has been provided by Xinzuo/Hezhen for review. However all opinions are my own as there is no contract (NDA) or agreements signed, I'm free to talk about them.

@@chefpanko Who heath treats the ZDP-189 for them ? Hitachi directly ? Or somebody from the Takefu village ? Also what do you think about SRS-13 ? For a more aggressive pricing like 150-200 I would for sure buy a ZDP-189

@@dimmacommunication I believe they said it was Sanyo Riki Co., Ltd (I believe the metal supplier is Hitachi Metals Tool Steel, Ltd. Not sure if Sayo Riki is a Sister company of Hitachi Metals or not. Aggressive pricing would be hard as the price of the metal and heat treatment is high as the heat treatment is also done in Japan in order to get the contract of importing the ZDP steel. I need to dig into the emails to find the answer or ask Xinzuo about it. I think I heard that Xinzuo is currently the only manufacturer that can offer the ZDP189.

@@chefpanko I've heard some stories about the ZDP-189 and Japanese steel contracts in general, BUT I can understand the concern. If the do ZDP-189 HT not In the proper way it could ruin the brand name. Totally understandable.

Ok looked the email up. Working with Sanyo Riki Co. LTD, Steel created by Nippon Shoryu Metals a subsidiary of Hitachi Metals. Heat treatment by Hatta Koygo Co. LTD. Xinzuo currently has an exclusive right to use Japanese SRS13 and ZDP189 as a Chinese manufacturer so they are the only manufacturer with the rights to use those 2 steel. The 10cr15comov that Xinzuo uses was also their response to the Japanese VG10 import ban (which in my opinion worked very well as I have always said that Xinzuo's 10cr15comov is one of the best I have used compared to other brands with 10cr). 14Cr14MoVNb is developed by Xinzuo in cooperation with a steel manufacturer. This steel-type spec is created to be comparable to the SRS13 or SG2 but then with a much lower cost. So they can offer an attractive price or aggressive pricing on those as it is their own developed steel which cost less and no extra fee for importing or getting/paying for the rights to use it. Hope that that clears some questions I will be asking them more questions shortly. So if you have more that I can't answer I can ask them as it is part of a Q&A that I will publish on my website.

Their Chinese VG10 is actually good and on par with the Xinzuo one. My original review was to include more details about the blade, but the handle and balance point made it overshadow the pros. At one point, I had to decide how to deliver the content. So I have decided to waste less of everyone's time and focus on the problem instead. But it really is a shame the blade itself is good, but I highly prioritize comfort and usability. Most will not notice if they only use it for a few minutes a day but I have been reviewing so many various knives that the handle was immediately noticeable, I thought maybe I will get used to it if I use it for a longer period. But that only added to the problem as I could exactly pinpoint my discomfort with it, hopefully, other knife styles besides the Santoku will be better which I highly doubt as I won't be buying any of this series.

@@chefpanko This is truly sad. VG 10 is not the easiest steel to grind. (I’ll be looking for 10 cr15 comov) The fact that a superior blade was produced only to be made less than useful by its handle isn’t acceptable. I’ve worked with sharp hand tools , for long hours , my entire life. I know what can happen to your hands over time when forcing them to use tools with unsuitable handles. Major, crippling joint and tendon problems that may be irreversible. Designing a knife is similar to building a boat or kite in this way; One builds to be as light as possible with the flexibility and strength to accomplish its function without breaking. The form is always beautiful when designed to function at its best. Making something beautiful ,without accommodating the demands of its function , produces a tragedy like this santoku. It would be a good If companies like this were to send prototypes to someone ,like yourself , for assessment prior to going into production. It would save us all a lot of grief and money.

@@chopsddy3 Yeah for VG10 I do recommend a ceramic whetstone vs the soaking stones as it can be challenging on cheap soaking stones as they can dish out quite easily on blades with a high Rockwell. Yeah, my review is based on my personal experience of working long hours in a restaurant so it is easier for me to pinpoint the problems with a handle compared to 5 min home use. The saying ''a knife needs to fit like a glove'', and ''a knife should be part of your hand/arm'' is something I truly could understand after using various knives for long hours in the restaurant. So if I get to use the knife for the first time I will immediately know if it is good or not, if it is not there yet it might get better during the adjusting period (of getting used to a new shape but once that period is over we have to face reality). If the handle is too small for my hand size I can feel it cramping over a longer period of time (but also upon the first contact with the handle I pretty much know if the handle is too narrow or not). And if you keep forcing the handle for hours and days/weeks you can injure your hand (getting various pain problems which do not only affect your fingers or palm but your arm and wrist too). It would indeed be good but I think that their focus is the home cooks which majority of them would not notice the discomfort over a 3 min prep time. And those don't have any other reverence of what is good or bad. Unfortunately, I experienced a lot of handles even before I started uploading on youtube. I may need to make an article about it how a handle can be so important. But I have to be critical, and I truly hope that they improve future designs (I'm sure they are capable of taking the feedback and improving on it in future series).

@@chefpanko I use diamond to establish my preferred bevel on vg10 and ceramic to finish and touch up if necessary while working. A good strop helps to save blade material. It is pretty rough on water stones.

@@chopsddy3 Yeah I also noticed that the VG10 on Ryusen Hamono knives were easier to sharpen not sure why (it may be because I had a lot more sharpening experience compared to my first Shun VG-Max knife that I owned). But that is my overall feel, also I find the edge retention on the Ryusen Hamono VG10 compared to the Shun VG-Max superior. The knife held the edge noticeably longer than the Shun VG-Max despite Ryusen advertising with a Rockwell of 60 at that time and Shun 61. But this is from years back as I no longer have the knives since I sold them after I stopped working in the hospitality sector. I might get a Ryusen Hamono again unfortunately they no longer make the knife I had 7+/- years back and the prices have gone up a lot for their newer series. (compared to today's standard the Ryusen knife was the most boring knife but it performed so well! In terms of look it had nothing just VG10 and a softer cladding no Damascus pattern, no hammering, just a standard western handle). I probably should start stropping more, as out of old habits at the restaurant I never strop my knives only finish on the stones. Since taking a strop with me is extra baggage with the already limited kitchen space where each colleague has their own knife storage bag/roll.

I have not spoken to Xituo but to my surprise Xinzuo on the other hand contacted me and I have received around 13 review samples of their newest collection/series a review of those will follow soon. Xinzuo series: Feng Series with imported Japanese SRS13 Steel (Chef’s knife and Nakiri) Lan Series Santoku (10cr15comov as I requested to compare it to the 14CrV3MoNb Powdered version that I bought myself) F2 Series Nakiri (10cr15comov but a Damascus layer with acid bath treatment) PM8 Series (Tall Nakiri) ZHEN Series Chef’s knife (ZDP189 steel imported and heat treated in Japan) Hezhen Series: Master Series Chef’s knife (imported Sandvik 14C28N steel) Elegant Series Santoku white and wood color version + a Cleaver (14CrV3MoNb Powdered steel) F2 Series Chef knife (coreless 110 layers Damascus Steel) From my first hands-on impression, I have to say that a lot of brands and manufacturers need to step up QC and designs. And Xinzuo/Hezhen is currently setting a new standard, some grind of those knives are very thin and I'm excited to start testing them for a longer period. Out of the pile of knives, I received I'm not sure about 2 of them (both are the same series only difference was the core material and different wooden handles, it is the handle shape that is probably not my thing it is not bad or causing discomfort I may need to use it longer to get adjusted to it). So currently I'm busy reviewing a lot of new knives so if Xituo would contact me I would probably have to decline or they need to agree to wait for a review spot to open up, as it will take me around 6 months to test and film all knives that I currently have on the planning. (Already had to decline 6 other brands, since my agenda is full now).

@@chefpanko True. That seems like a lot of job. Looking forward to the reviews.

@@thiago.assumpcao yeah, it was unexpected and the original plan was to test 2 knives from Xinzuo that I bought and I ended up with 13/14 Xinzuo knives including the 2 I bought before they contacted me. Still have a 3 Shibazi knives to review and a Zwilling knife. And if everything goes to plan I will be going to Thailand and trying to score a Kom Kom knife (same manufacturer of Kiwi?) that has been requested a lot. Will also see if I can get a Miyabi and a Ryusen Hamono knife on the review pile.

@@chefpanko I wanted to buy a Kiwi but they are hard to get in the west.

@@thiago.assumpcao yeah the Kiwi is quite pricey too in Europe (the price increased a lot and I heard that they only cost around 2/3 dollars in Thailand vs 20 euro on Amazon EU), I could not find a Kom Kom online so if the plans go through and I do go to Thailand I will try to buy it there.

I really hoped for more even with an added time with the knife but the combination of the knife style + balance point + how the handle felt during use, especially on longer periods I can't give it a pass. Especially when I can compare it with my past and new experiences with the Santoku-styled knives which include a similar handle design that has been done better. Better contouring so that it fits in my hand a lot better even when switching gripping styles. My review here is limited to the Santoku, it may work on other knife styles but that is something I will skip from trying personally and also because I have a review pile of 20 knives sitting to get reviewed. I really wanted to like the knife the blade itself is actually well-made and good. Logo roughness is not bad but compared to competitors they can completely smoothen the logo out so that you can't feel it at all. Inconsistent sharpening (human error can happen not a big deal unless it is something major like flattening the profile etc). So I changed my original review of this knife to skip the detailed parts about the blade and focus on what I could not like making the entire experience not that great for me.

​@@chefpanko thank you Chef, well it sucks but you did a very good job in your review. I bought an AUS-10 Keemake based on your review years ago that has served me very well. I have both it and a decent VG10 Japanese made knife, and while the latter VG10 knife isn't chippy as some say that metal can be, it's just so much harder to put the grain back to perfect despite needing the stone nearly as much.

@@anasevi9456 Glad it served you well, mine had some QC problems but other than that it was a decent knife for that time. Now I can see a lot of new improvements being made by the Chinese manufacturers but unfortunately, a lot of brands still use the older knife template. But brands like Xinzuo has been advancing and adding a ton of small adjustment that makes the overall knife better. But even Xinzuo/Hezhen have been experimenting with handle shapes. The 12 knives I have from Xinzuo/Hezhen while based on the pictures I would probably skip them but since I have them in my hands now they actually felt comfortable. Along with the improvements to the blade and the various grinds they have put across the series is quite impressive. Out of the 13 knives only 1 I have my doubts and need to use it more to see if I can get adjusted to the handle. (actually 2 but they are identical just a different core material and handle but shape and form the same). All the other 11 knives felt good in my hands on the first hand contact so no complaints there. But going forward I expect other brands to follow Xinzuo/Hezhen's example. The QC, heat treatment and the adjusted improvements on the blade are what currently sets Xinzuo/Hezhen apart from the past brands I have tested.

hahaha, I'm just a little bit disappointed ;) but on a serious note, I really hoped for more (I even gave it some extra weeks so that I somehow would magically like the handle but the result can be seen in this video, the longer I used it, especially on an extended time frame per day so not 5 min a day but 15/20 min prep time you can notice the discomfort a lot more). After so many Chinese-made knives I have tested and thought that I actually could make a good judgment from the sales page and promotional pictures. This knife proved me wrong, and I can't judge a knife by the pictures alone or the spec sheets. And also disappointed with Dongsun since the blade itself is good not much to add other than the slightly inconsistent bevel of the sharpened edge. And the feelable logo (which I hope that everyone eventually moves away from since other competitors have improved on that aspect). The handle looked really good too in the pictures, but it has a tiny non-visible (visible to the eye but was not able to capture it on the video or photo) bump that is sitting directly on my bony parts. And then the balance point, I would not have minded, if it is handle heavy if the comfort was good. (I do prefer a middle-balanced Santoku at the position where it is the most comfortable to hold). I even was thinking about talking about the blade more and saying more positive things about it, but I would be wasting my time and everyone's else time since the problem lies with the handle. I haven't made such a bad purchasing choice since I started the channel, a knife that never saw the daylight on my channel called ''Wallop'' that knife was horrible in every aspect. Compared to the Wallop the Dongsun is miles ahead: Dongsun better fit and Finish than Wallop Santoku. Dongsun handle while I dislike it, the Wallop one was even more unusable. Dongsun QC is far better than Wallop which had a lot of shrinkage because of the cheap wood and sharp edges on the blade and handle whereas Dongsun one is smooth and good. Dongsun Rockwell's hardness was as advertised whereas the Wallop version was extremely bad. Wallop I can directly throw in the trash and Dongsun Kyokuto I'm more like ''it could have been so much better, why?!?!?!?!''. (I can understand if you give it to a non-knife enthusiast that they won't notice anything for the short 5 min or less hands-on time, but at least test it for a prolonged period of 30min to 1 hour a day before mass production even if it is aimed for home cooks it is inexcusable for not making it better). Positive news, there have been a lot of improvements going on with one of the Chinese brands and I will consider them the new standard that other brands should follow if they want to compete. So very excited to talk about those improvements and what the future brings and I really hope other brands will follow that example so I will be more and more strict in my future reviews. Such as the inconsistent bevel, I finally have seen a brand that can put out a consistent even bevel so there is no excuse for other brands (sure it is hand sharpened on a whetstone/wheel that spins automatically but a human is still needed so I hope they can train the sharpeners more so that those with the adequate experience are the only one to sharpen the knives or the premium knives, cheaper knives they can practice on). Same with the logo, no more excuses to use the sandpaper-like feel logo on a knife! (time for some of the Chinese brands/manufacturers to upgrade!) Excited to test the Xinzuo/Hezhen knife as I finally got some time to try them. Out of the 12/13 knives only 1 (actually 2 but they are the same knife only one with 10cr15comov and the other with their own powdered steel, I need some more time to see if I can get adjusted to the handle shape). The tiny adjustments are what are setting the new standards for my future review videos and hope to see other manufacturers/brands to follow. Disclosure: 2 of the 12/13 knives are bought with my own money before Xinzuo/Hezhen contacted me, the other series were sent over by Xinzuo/Hezhen for review.

Thank you for sharing your experience, my experience with this series is limited to the Santoku but it is refreshing to hear other opinions about it on the other knife style in this series. I have used a lot of different handle styles and there are some with bellies that are executed so well that on the first try it directly became a part of my hand. Great contouring and great thoughtful design. With this, in combination with the Santoku-styled blade, I could not get comfortable with it. Thank you for your valuable feedback, I will see if I can change certain things about new reviews as usually I'm very positive about the knives I review. I will be skipping the Dongsun for now as I have 20+ other knives to review so I can't add another knife to the pile, unfortunately.