DOOM Eternal - Replacing the Weapon Wheel (and adding Gyro + Flick Stick) 

Also, for those wondering why I'm using R2 for weapons instead of to shoot, it's because R1 is much more responsive than R2. Lots of players favour shooting with the bumpers over the triggers, so I encourage you to try it out :)

The gameplay without talking is what people want to see. Obviously you need the talking too, but we can get a sense of what it feels like to use from looking at your on-screen movements. Without that, a video advertising a product like this, is pretty void.

@@JibbSmartGD The triggers seem to get a bad rap for the same reason as motion controls: they're easy to get wrong. R2 can be made much better for shooting via Steam Input. Here's how: 1. Set "Trigger Analog Output" to "Analog Off" so the game only sees digital input. 2. Clear out the "Full Pull Action." 3. Set the "Soft Pull Action" to your desired emulated input, e.g. LMB. 4. Set "Soft Pull Trigger Style" to "Hair Trigger." Take the time to read the description for this mode while you're at it. 5. Tune the "Soft Pull Point" slider to taste. Start at the leftmost position and move right if you're getting unintended presses. 6. Enjoy your extremely responsive trigger! 7. Implement this kind of behavior in your games and configurations. :P Here's a configuration of mine, for Half-Life 2, that does what I described above: major-gnuisance.github.io/Steam%20Input/Half-Life%202/DualShock%204.html

Can you do Apex Legends next? There will be crossplay soon.

@Major Gnuisance Unfortunately there's a built-in deadzone that can't be adjusted as far as I know. My guess is it's built in to the hardware. The DualShock 4's triggers don't detect anything until they've been pulled pretty far -- my crude estimate is at least a 20% pull on both my controllers. Hair trigger is useful if you're partially pulling the trigger in your resting position, but if you take your finger off the trigger it's back to a big hardware deadzone.

Thanks so much :) I hope so!

Nice to see SmvR found this stuff

Sadly, it seems that majority of gamers still hate/do not understand motion aiming in shooters. But there's still hope, Nintendo Switch is a console, where 90% of fps games have optional gyro aiming. And after this experience I just simply can't play any shooter game on PS4, bc usual twinstick controls feels awful, clunky and slow compared to gyro. I would love if Sony/Microsoft made it standard, but I am a realist and I think it'll not happen in this generation =(. Atleast I can play Doom Eternal on my Switch tho (in fact, it even runs better than on my potato pc)

@@janAkaliKilo Problem is Microsoft, their XInput API that is included with DirectX for both Xbox and Windows just straight up does not support gyro at all like their controllers.

Exactly! I can’t imagine why no other console other than switch actually implies gyro control!

@@sherlockkhalil4644 They think that gyro/motion aiming has cooties or something. Even though you can just turn it off. They rather no one have the option to it. At least thats how it sounds like talking to PS4/Xbox owners when it come so the subject of gyro aiming. Switch on the other hand have fully embraced gyro. If a game doesn't have gyro everyone would demand it. The sad thing is Xbox is the console that stands to gain the most from gyro due to the fact that theres so much shooters on that console.

I hope so!

I hope Sony is looking at what Nintendo is doing and starts implementing it in first party titles

It already is. People just have to stop being scared and adopt it already. Nintendo gamers have already made gyro aiming mandatory. Every developer got hounded on implementing gyro aiming before the console even released, so now every developer implements gyro aiming into their games for the Switch because they know we won't buy that shit without it. All we need is for PS4 gamers todo the same and developers will start making games with gyro in mind instead of an after thought. We need to get deadzones back.

no need to wish, just insist on it and talk about it. Consoles will catch on

@@teddybruscie gyro aiming sounds annoying to get used to

Thank you :) I hope so, too.

Thanks for letting me know :)

@@JibbSmartGD Seems like you've been causing quite a stir, haven't you mr Gib? Don't know if you had any involvement but you were mentioned in a Linus Tech Tips too. I hope your work keeps rippling through until it reaches devs all around. Good Job!

Ah a fellow fan I see

Hi! Good observations. While I prefer to fight from range with any input device (including mouse), I think that you're right that the limited range of movement of the gyro means it benefits fighting at range more than fighting in close quarters. However, a lot of players play with much higher sensitivity than I do. I keep my sensitivity low (1-2) so that new players can pick it up relatively easily and be playing with the same settings they see in my video. But a lot of more experienced players play with a sensitivity of 5 or more, and that makes a huge difference in close encounters. My configurations always include a way to disable the gyro while holding a button (like lifting the mouse off the mousepad). It's my philosophy that if a game doesn't have a way to disable the gyro temporarily, it doesn't have good gyro controls. In this video, it's Circle (tap for grenade, I think, hold to disable gyro). JoyShockMapper does let you set the sensitivities separately in each axis, though I think not many know about it. The following will set the X sensitivity to 3 and the Y sensitivity to 2: GYRO_SENS = 3 2 This also works with the acceleration options (MIN_GYRO_SENS, MAX_GYRO_SENS). Hopefully that does what you need it to :) And thanks again for sharing your observations and feedback!

@@JibbSmartGD I read the documentation more closely (I'm kind of embarrassed because you actually say a lot of the things I said in there) and tried your suggestions. It ended up working really, really well! My playstyle in DOOM (and other games, if they allow) to be aggro, up close, and move around a lot (which involves also moving the camera a lot), which, with my own settings, turned out to be totally fine. I'm worse at controlling this as compared to mouse + keyboard since I have a lifetime of practice with that vs. ~1 hour, but I definitely see myself being able to get a lot better at both precision and tracking with time. In exchange, the amount of haptic feedback and control just makes this *so much more fun!* The "heavy recoil/screen shake" when I don't properly brace myself for shooting, the physicality of moving the controller, the controller vibration which you don't get with mouse + keyboard, is just so much more fun! As compared to joystick aim, I can already control it much better because I *can actually play without aim assist* now. By the way, after reading the documentation more closely, I'm really impressed by your program. I think everything that I want to implement for my own control scheme, your program lets me do, it's really, really good. The only thing that seems to be missing is that I use the official DS4 Wireless Adapter, which doesn't seem supported. Oh, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I think the reason why I was confused on the feature was because for other settings, they're in the form of SETTING_X or SETTING_Y, but GYRO_SENS and its related settings are configured with tuple settings. Supporting both for various settings might make it more clear, but that's effort and the feature *is* implemented now.

That makes sense. Could also be handy to be able to set Y without X, too. I'll make a note of it. DS4 support is something I'm working on improving, too :) Glad you enjoy gyro so much! It's a game-changer!

I faced the same problem, but I did not disable "Aim Assist" after uncheck it it works flawlessly with small tunning on gyro settings from steam controller settings

Thanks, Pete :)

Thanks so much for sharing! We can only keep on trying :)

Thanks for the kind words! More to come :)

Thanks so much for the kind words! It's always encouraging to see folks like yourself enjoy playing games this way :)

Awesome to hear there are others who greatly appreciate gyro aiming.

Much appreciated :)

Glad you think so :)

Thanks. I did give that a go and it was a bit iffy (didn't seem to come out correctly, but maybe I didn't do it right). I actually didn't know about the weapon wheel problem until I was making a "basic" config for others, because I wasn't interested in using the weapon wheel myself.

​@@JibbSmartGD Speaking of your weapon selection method, have you tried putting the second set of weapons behind a long or double press? You can do it easily using Steam Input activators.

I've been using JoyShockMapper rather than Steam for the bindings, but it can do most of the same things. I experimented with long press vs short press, which I normally don't mind (I do this in Quake without a weapon-select button), but having to hold a button at the same time makes it enough more cumbersome that I didn't like it. JSM can't do combined chorded-double-press yet, and though I wanted to try it, I didn't invest in the idea enough to try get it working in Steam.

I sure hope so! Thanks!

I've tried reaching out in the past, but these big well-known folks can be very difficult to get in touch with 😅 I had a slayer gate recorded in this play session, but many portions of the video were riddled with artifacts, including that one, sadly.

We've just gotta keep asking the devs for it, I guess!

Hi Etrigan, thanks for the suggestions! I wish I could play them, but I don't have a Wii or Wii U. My guess is they're not just gyro -- IR aiming puts a game on pretty solid ground, though it has its limitations as well.

@@JibbSmartGDThanks for the answer. Some of those used the features of the sensors to it's advantages. The image sensor in Skyward Sword was used to auto recenter the gyro& minimize drift. As long as the user was aiming in the general direction of the TV/SensorBar there was no drifting. Reason i didn't mention Skyward was because while it worked great, there was 0 customization options. Pikmin 3 on the other hand used the Gyro to bypass the IR pointer "off screen" problem, letting the game have a good stimation of where the user was aiming even when the IR sensor missed the IR emitters. But at this stage in time one could use the exact same design as say... a Wiimote put a modern image sensor in the front to achieve 1:1 image mapping of the TV. It's downright absurd to be aiming just with a thumbsick in 2020.

Nice! That sounds easy to use

Panic Button are great! No idea if they'll see this vid, though. Is there a release date that's been announced? I couldn't find one

Yeah, this is an interesting one. It's come up a few times before. This has the potential to capture some seriously tense peaking and dodging if done correctly, but because games don't really offer analog leaning, this would have to be something experimented with in a prototype rather than just fake inputs in an already-published game.

@@JibbSmartGD IIRC, the older Rainbow Six games (ie. Raven Shield) had variable stances. Not sure if the input would work though.

Did that use the analog stick or something? JSM might have the option to output gamepad inputs in future

@@JibbSmartGD No, it was a button + mouse input since it was a PC exclusive. Also, it's somewhat old (2003). Edit: I just remembered that some of the later Medal of Honor entries also feature variable leaning for controllers. I think you gotta press a button while using the left analog to use it. 2nd Edit: Video for reference (MoH:Warfighter, game is also available on PC.) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4MJw2LJ2YRk.html

Yeah, I think that could be really interesting. Lots of people think gyro + racing = gyro steering, and I think all games should provide that option, but what else can we try? Being able to aim with gyro while steering with sticks could be a killer combo in games like Twisted Metal if done right, and like you say, even non-shooters could benefit from that freedom to look around like that.

And by attracting people who make games or are in that community can help in supporting the open sources softwares development. (2 birds with one stone) And if it is able to be made an asset for game engines by the community it will help in allowing many games small and big to easily add it to there games

I hadn't heard of karlson 3D, but I'll have a look. Thanks for the suggestion!

@@JibbSmartGD danidev.itch.io/karlson The link should help

I think if you wanted to have two different ways to control the view with your stick, probably the best way is to change the behaviour of the right stick while a shoulder-button is pressed, or to be able to toggle the behaviour. I wouldn't want to use a smaller stick for flick stick -- it's much easier to use flick stick with a DualShock 4 than it is to use it with a Joy-Con, for example. I get your concern about not being able to look vertically with a stick, but with a little practice it becomes very natural to handle all vertical looking with the gyro. For example, I've played a fair bit of Quake Champions like this, and found it to be far better than what's possible with regular stick aiming. What tends to happen as players get used to gyro aiming is they get more and more comfortable with letting the gyro handle more and more of their aiming, and they rely on the sticks less and less.

Hi! My config has the second weapons bound to weapon-select + d-pad. Is that not working? Since JoyShockMapper doesn't know what weapon you have selected, it can't do the alternating back and forth with one button that I want them to implement natively.

Oh wow. Did you only recently start using it? Might wanna take it easy. I first really got into gyro when using a mouse was hurting my wrist -- I had gone from not playing much to playing a lot every day, and that prolonged increase in activity injured my wrist. I saw a physio, dialed it back a lot, and gradually did a little more each day. I'm no expert, but I think the same principle applies whenever you get into something new.

That sounds pretty good! I do the same weapon mapping in Quake

That's very unusual. You should just be able to change the mappings in the config file you downloaded. It's weird that the buttons wouldn't work but the gyro would. Does JoyShockMapper tell you about any problems (and commands "not recognised") when you load the config?

Hi! I'm glad you're enjoying the channel :) For a very long time I've been meaning to do a video on how to implement good gyro controls. All the info is on GyroWiki, but I think a video format would help a lot of people. In the meantime, I do recommend the tutorials on GyroWiki. They won't give you Switch- or PS4- specific stuff, but they are based on my work with JoyShockLibrary and JoyShockMapper. I don't know if the Switch and PS4 APIs that developers use expose the raw data needed for really precise controls, but even if they don't, there are a lot of ways to improve over games that are currently out there.

Thanks for sharing my work with your friends!

@@JibbSmartGD no problem and thank you for making games more accessible

One kinda messy workaround for now is that you can connected it to USB using Steam and then start using JoyShockMapper and it should work. JoyShockMapper knows how to talk to it by USB, but not how to tell it to work by USB, so that's what I've got to work on. That's probably #3 on my priority list of things to do, but I don't know how quickly I'll get that working.

You're great

@@JibbSmartGD Touche

Hey thanks!

Thank you! I made the 3D overlay myself. I'm working on getting it ready for other people to use it, too

Do you mean PS Move? I don't think it works with JoyShockMapper

I made it myself :) It's still a work in progress. I've had to prioritise JSM updates and articles for developers, but I'll get the overlay finished eventually

@@JibbSmartGD I hope so! I would love to use to use that overlay!

Hi! I haven't tried reWASD but I know some people who use it. I think their gyro aiming is still pretty new, and hopefully they'll keep improving it. But being able to map gyro to right stick is a super cool feature. I'm mostly relying on gyro aiming, but not entirely. I know at least one person who likes to use gyro for all turning the camera and save the right stick for other things. Like anything, it takes practice. It's good to think of it like a mouse -- it's good until it gets out of comfortable range (or off the mousepad) and then you're forced to disable it (or lift up the mouse) and reposition it. This is cumbersome at first, then it becomes more natural, and then when you're really good you start preemptively repositioning it when you know you're about to make a big turn, or when you've got a good opportunity now (while reloading). Getting comfortable with higher sensitivities helps, too. And that's all practice, practice, practice. I don't know if that's helpful for you -- maybe you're already on that path. Personally, I still use the right stick, but flick stick works very differently to traditional stick aiming. It lets me look in any direction pretty much instantly, and I'd have a hard time going back to traditional stick controls. Having said that, in my "Overwatch with One Joy-Con" video I don't have a right stick at all, and I still have a great time using just the gyro. Sorry it's such a long response :P Thanks for commenting!

Gyro Gaming have you tried DS4 Windows to tinker with Gyro functionality on PC? Just curious how well it works?

I'm a big fan of being able to unlock the aimer from the centre of the screen, though I wouldn't call that space the "deadzone" since it means something a bit different as well (minimum velocity threshold for moving the cursor). I have a prototype I work on here and there in my own time that lets the player aim around the screen without moving the camera. As much as I enjoyed it in Wii games, having to turn the screen by moving the cursor to the edge was real bad -- at least the way it has to work with IR aiming. Being able to use a stick at the same time is hugely beneficial and lets the player mostly avoid that edge-turning, but I also have some edge-turning behaviour that's only possible with gyro (not IR aiming) that I think improves on it. I have it working with flick stick, too. One day hopefully I'll have that prototype in a good enough state that I can demo it. I believe what I have working takes some of the best aspects of that Wii aiming and combines it with the features of more standard controllers in a way that offers even greater advantages over other control methods, including mouse aiming :)

@@JibbSmartGD Yea my dream control method is to have the Wii aim style with the right stick for the camera. The issue is mostly that when you try to follow a target, some they get out if your range and you have to use the right stick to move the screen to get the target back into your range of precision. If we had free aim with the right stick it wouldn't be an issue, but because we have a fixed reticle, if we move the right stick to follow a target, the precision is lost and you can very easily overshoot or understood your target. I think even with free aiming with the stick would still provide an issue with this change, and that's where the deadzone or whatever you wanna call it comes in, because it just more seamlessly moves the screen to follow the target.

Yeah, I dunno how comparable to mouse it gets. There are a lot of mouse players much better than me and a lot of gyro players much better than me. Flick stick + gyro does offer some advantages in some situations, I think, and still being able to use a controller's left analog stick can be super useful depending on the game, too. At the very least, it's a lot better than "traditional" stick controls.

Hi Nim! Glad to have you aboard! What game did you upload a config for? The overlay is a work in progress, and not ready for public yet, I'm afraid. It won't be included with JoyShockMapper, but will be a standalone thing called "JoyShockOverlay".

@@JibbSmartGD I made one for The Outer Worlds. This tool is fantastic. I'm a PC gamer by heart and though I've often felt the lure of comfort offered by controllers, I genuinely hate using the thumbstick for aiming. I tend to play games at harder difficulties, which then frequently become unplayable for me to play with a controller as a result. I find auto-aim to also be particularly 'lame', for lack of a better word. As for the JoyShockOverlay, it's really cool that you have plans to release it some day. You don't owe nothing to no one so all your effort is surely appreciated.

JoyShockMapper y Steam

@@JibbSmartGD Gracias, y vendes tu algun mando para juegos online como Blade Conquerors?

Creo que Blade Conquerors no está disponible donde estoy. Sin embargo, JoyShockMapper debería funcionar con casi cualquier juego. (Traductor de google)

Yeah, I agree. Will it be better than 2016's controls, though?

I do have the option in JSM to make it so that gyro is disabled while using the right stick, whether you're using flick stick or regular stick aiming. It's a handy option to have, but being able to use both at the same time is very useful.

I recommend no aim assist with gyro aiming :)

Thanks! I only had it partially working in this video, but I had it fully working in a later JSM video. I haven't done it with Steam, and I'm not super familiar with the remapping options these days. I haven't tried to do a config like this in my Steam Deck. I wonder if someone else has had success?

@@JibbSmartGDit’s all good. I figured it out :)

I think Steam can help you with that, but I don't really know. Gyro steering is a very different kinda thing

​@@JibbSmartGD, yeah, currently I stuck with adding the Forza into my non-steam games (since it's not a steam game). I will found out soon whether I can use steam or not.

JoyShockMapper shouldn't need any other software :)

Thanks for the kind words :) JoyShockMapper's gyro handling and flick stick are its biggest advantages, as far as I know. Even if you don't want to use flick stick, its gyro settings use real-world values in the only way that make sense, its smoothing can be applied only to low-velocity inputs so it doesn't add any latency to regular or fast movements, its acceleration settings are strike a rare balance of robustness and transparency, and its other stability options (if you want to use them) are also more configurable than most tools. JSM is designed to model a bare minimum standard of what all gyro aiming games should offer to players, as well as additional options for advanced or unusual players. No game that I know of comes close to this standard. Steam does better than any game I've played, but it still lacks natural sensitivity and falls short on acceleration, smoothing, and others. But if someone's not gonna use JSM, I do recommend Steam. It's mostly very good :) For a more comprehensive look at what games should do with gyro controls, check out the Good Gyro Controls tutorials on GyroWiki :)

Have you played Doom 2016 on switch yet?

Yep still waiting

At the moment it has to be by Bluetooth. I'm hoping to change this in future. For now, Steam can switch it into USB mode, so if you try it with Steam and then with JSM I've heard it'll work.

*I have it connected through the USB port. Steam recognizes it but the Joyshockmapper program stops responding whenever I run it.

@@JibbSmartGD ok, thanks for the quick reply!

I like the idea, but unfortunately this would be expensive for me to do. Hopefully one day this channel might start making a little money and then I can justify something like that :)

@@JibbSmartGDwell you got one subscriber then. Love all your videos. Somehow playing FPS/racing with gyro looks so much more fun than playing with analog control, or mouse+keyboard combo, especially in couchgaming setting

Thanks so much!

Yeah, that's an interesting one. JSM doesn't support mapping tilts to buttons yet, but it is planned. I think I got Overload recently, so maybe I should explore that.

Overload and Descent type games I think are just fine for stick, because the ship has a maximum turn speed, which lends itself well to joysticks, plus there's a bit of momentum when you turn and stop turning that makes mouse aim not inherently better unlike most shooters

I'm a big fan of ADS-only gyro as an intro to gyro aiming. Games like DOOM don't have ADS, and they're better without it. I personally like the option of having a "gyro button", and then the user can choose whether the gyro button is for disabling the gyro (and it's otherwise always on) or enabling the gyro (and it's otherwise always off).

@@JibbSmartGD If I understand you right, you're talking a gyro toggle button? I would think the issue with that is that there's one extra button to press when you're quick aiming all the time, so people would just leave it on most of the time. The reason I like two hold to activate buttons for hip fire and ADS is that it's more natural and quicker. I guess in a game like Doom having to hold hip fire gyro left shoulder all the time would be annoying too. Either way, your gyro work is great. I mostly use gyro on the Switch and am getting so frustrated how no games are getting it right. The standard seems to have become leaving all 3 rotational axis on at the same time which causes conflicted inputs a lot. Games also have quite large gyro deadzones to try to limit the screen shake of always on gyro, which ruins the precision.

I didn't mean a gyro toggle button, but I wasn't very clear. I just mean that some people prefer gyro "always on" with disable-while-held button and some people prefer gyro "always off" with an enable-while-held button, and for games like DOOM where there's no ADS it probably makes sense to provide both options :) Thanks for the kind words. I think you're absolutely correct that using all 3 axes is a source of imprecision in a lot of games and deadzones are hugely detrimental to precision!

I should give it another go. I haven't tried it since before I started working on JoyShockMapper.

Gyro Gaming Yeah I was just curious about the functionality as the interface is super intuitive or appears that way. For some reason Joy shock mapper just intimidates me a little bit but maybe I’m just being a big baby

Haha, it's okay. Having a proper interface makes a big difference for usability, and having no interface makes a big difference to being able to add new features quickly :P

Hi Dixon, you can try lowering the sensitivity of the gyro until you feel more in control. It can help to have your forearms or elbows supported while you play. Resetting smoothly just takes practice -- you need a button for disabling the gyro while you reset your controller position, but with practice it's just like resetting a mouse. I hope that helps!

@@JibbSmartGD so gyro always on with a button to disable it? Where do you find it to be least intrusive and comfortable? Are you using any kind of back attachment? Best regards

@@dixon266 Exactly. I usually either have it as a trigger (since I'm shooting with shoulder buttons) or Circle on the DS4 (as in this case). I'll often have it shared with some sort of input I never have to hold. For example, if I remember right, in this game I tap Circle to throw a grenade, hold it to disable gyro. And I have no delay on disabling gyro, so even if I'm just tapping the button to throw a grenade, the gyro will be off for a fraction of a second, which is harmless and keeps it responsive.

@@dixon266 Oh, and no back attachment, though I'd love to get my hands on one and give it a go.

Yes, by setting MOUSE_X_FROM_GYRO_AXIS = Z

@@JibbSmartGD you know, like when a pubg "mobile" player that using gyroscope to tilts the device on the left-right direction ?

Hi! I'm glad you're enjoying them :) I got something like that working with JSM 2, which is briefly explained in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GDqfCjGhodk.html

@@JibbSmartGD so i need JSM 2 to make binds like that work then. I think I dl'd the latest version but I'll double check and take a look at the vid as well. thnx for the response.

To be clear, you can't combine chords and double presses. But you could make it so that when R is pressed, another config is loaded that binds N and N,N, and when R is released their original bindings are loaded

@@JibbSmartGD yea I knew what you meant. As in not that exact bind but something that will accomplish same thing pretty much. I'm actually reading through the wiki bindings readme now so I'm learning. Thanks for all your help.

Oh cool :) Just wanted to be sure. Happy to help!

Yeah, I dunno if it's on their radar at all. People need to tell the developers they want it, and they need to do it graciously. I've tried, but never heard back.

@@JibbSmartGD i know the feeling. I tried tweeting them for weeks and got nothing. I mean, gyro aiming at the very least has to be one their radar. They put it in the switch port of doom 2016. And with the infamous tweet with the angry fanboy when he saw the tweet saying that they added gyro aiming as an option "Who asked for this?" Doom twitter "Everyone"

Good on you :) It's a funny thing. A different developer ports the Switch versions, so I think Id just think of it as a Switch thing. And then the Twitter account probably isn't handled by a developer, or even by someone with influence over development (even though their job is very important)

Good day, fellow sir

That'd work. But even with an Xbox controller, I'd personally rather momentarily take my thumb off the right stick to change weapons than the left stick and stop moving

@@JibbSmartGD Thanks for the reply, I'm just used to Y being my weapon swap button from other FPS games I play like Far Cry and Destiny, so it would be good to have some semblance between control schemes. Currently I am constantly hitting flame belch by accident when I mean to switch weapons, lol.

@@VanaheimGames Haha, fair enough! Another thing you could consider then is to have Y as the weapon button and your triggers and bumpers for the weapons. That means you can keep moving while switching weapons, although their layout doesn't fit the wheel as naturally. Y + d-pad is of course also a good option as you suggested :)

I will try it out tonight and see what works for me.

Thanks for the recommendation!

Hi Pandsu, thanks for putting so much time into it. I'll try and respond to everything succinctly: It's best not to think of flick stick as holding onto a direction -- that's not how it works internally. There are two parts to flick stick: the "flick" and the "turn". The flick is just used for that first quick change in direction. The turn is the further adjustments -- it doesn't care about where you're already pointing, it just adds changes to your in-game bearing, and it's 1-to-1. So most players start with just the flick. Tap back to look behind, tap rightish to check your right, leftish to check your left, etc. It doesn't have to be very precise to be useful when starting out. The turn is a very natural addition to the flick -- if I flick to the right and realise I overshot or undershot my target, I can immediately adjust the stick by turning it to where I wish I had flicked it, and the outcome is the same. As you get more comfortable with it, that's when players start using the turn to watch corners as they round them and even do general navigation. Again, it's not good to think of it as holding a direction. Think of it as turning the stick clockwise turns you the same amount clockwise, and the same for anticlockwise. The deadzone on flick stick is fairly large because that's where the most accuracy is. If a player releases the stick slowly, before it gets into the deadzone it'll likely change in angle, and this will often be unintended on the part of the player. One reason I don't use that inner space for a partial or slower turn (I did consider this) is because while the behaviour is obvious when slowly pointing the stick in one direction, it becomes confusing when rotating the stick while it's still only partially tilted. Partial turns or slower flicks when the stick is only partially tilted will drastically increase the complexity as far as the player is concerned. The latency introduced by the deadzone with flick stick is not anywhere near as important as the latency introduced by the trigger deadzone, because the flick is going to take some time anyway (by default, 100ms) and the player already accepts that. The turns have no deadzone and theoretically no additional latency, although by default there's some smoothing for small turns on the DualShock 4 because the DS4 thumbstick resolution is so low that without smoothing you'll get very obvious stuttering. Big turns have no smoothing. When I say devs don't implement 'good' gyro in games, I'm not talking about flick stick at all. I'm talking about just the gyro aiming. One example is how most games with "always on" aiming don't have a button to disable the gyro. That sucks. That's like having a mouse you can't lift off the mousepad. Zelda BOTW doesn't have this problem because it's only "sometimes on" aiming, and that's the perfect game for gyro controls. But: - Sensor fusion makes aiming less reliable - Sensitivity can't be set separately from stick sensitivity - Can't manually calibrate (auto calibration can interfere) - Laggy (feels like smoothing but can't be sure) GyroWiki explains how to improve on these. It shows how to implement better gyro controls, regardless of whether you want to add flick stick to it. If you find the gyro finicky with JSM, there are a lot of customisation options. There's no reason it shouldn't offer you a better aiming experience than gyro games you're used to. And, of course, JSM supports traditional stick aiming as well so you can use that instead of flick stick. Lastly, sure, some people are crazy talented with a particular type of input. They're usually very, very practiced with it. I've been playing with mouse and traditional stick aiming for probably around 20 years (a little more for mouse, a little less for stick aiming). There are far, far better gyro players than I am. I'm not a remarkable player by any stretch. But gyro + flick stick is how I've been playing CS:GO, Quake, Fortnite, Overwatch, COD against "decent" mouse and keyboard players and having a great time with it.

Oh wow, I knew about it having gyro, but didn't know about the weapon stuff! That'd be the work of Nightdive Studios. I haven't checked it out yet, but I'd like to. I've heard the sensitivity doesn't go very high (about 2?), but that should be enough for me at least.

Wow, thanks for the encouragement! I'm glad to hear you're enjoying my work :)

Ultrakill is such a cool game! But I don't have much time to make videos these days. There are other channels with Ultrakill + gyro videos, though :)

What I'm describing here doesn't remove the weapon wheel at all. It just adds a new shortcut for players who already know what they want, and they can press that shortcut even faster than it takes for the weapon wheel to appear

That's fair enough. For me I found that it was useful but cumbersome pretty quickly, but took some time to get really comfortable with it

@@JibbSmartGD After playing some more. I'm now convinced that the flickstick method gives players a huge advantage over regular controls. Not only for aiming but also for mobility. I still need to get used to the dail controls after years of regular controls.

It's starting to get better on PlayStation :) Fortnite, Deathloop, God of War, Call of Duty, No Man's Sky all got unusually good gyro since the beginning of 2022. And Neon White is so good on PS5

It doesn't work with PS4 at the moment. There might be a way to do it in future with remote play, but because JoyShockMapper doesn't output as a controller (just keyboard and mouse), it won't work just yet.

Gyro Gaming thx for your reply mate. There are some keyboard supporting games on console tho. Do you recon it could work on those?

It's wild, hey? Would love to see console games make better use of their controllers!

@@JibbSmartGD Yes, to me it's really weird that PS games don't make use of the gyro nor the touchpad, some switch games do but not as many as they should. Maybe because the majority of console gamers don't like it, but developers should at least put an option in their games.

Try running JSM as admin? That's often the issue when it works on desktop but not in game

In my experience 3rd person games work great with it, so I reckon it'd be pretty good, but I don't have RDR2

Yeah, I learned that trying to do this is not viable at all. Steam input is pretty glitchy with multi button inputs. Cause I finally got a button to both switch weapons and change actions sets to be on the same button to work, sort of. Sometimes it would change weapons. Sometimes it won't. I even set it do display when it switches actions sets. Actions sets switch easily as much as I press the button, but the weapon doesn't. It's really weird. Even tries setting 2 different activators that are both non interupptable, same thing happens. This has been a long and confusing journey Here's the config if you want to test it yourself. Hold R1 and Triangle to test it. I only properly set it for the shotguns for a test. Boy I was disappointed with the results steam://controllerconfig/782330/2578919774

@@teneesh3376 (late I know) I use a different setup and it works consistently for me (I avoid double tapping and chorded presses as much as possible; find them unreliable) I have an action layer set on my weapon select button (LT) and that action layer changes the face buttons to 1-4 (and 5-8) Buttons are a regular press (north is 1, etc.) a long press (north is 5, etc), and a release press which removes the quick select bind. Releasing the weapon select button already removes it, but I find forcibly removing provides more reliable results (you have to repeatedly use the weapon select button to swap, but it's worth the trade off) I use a long press as it's more reliable and getting the timing down keeps things much tighter (the length of the press is set to zero then notched two points to the right) so tapping the button nets you the lower num key, and 'pressing' it gets you the higher number kinda like PS2's pressure sensitive buttons I'll put a config link to my config (doom eternal) when I get a minute if you want to try it I use it in all my games and save for one (Hrot, and I think it's a software bug) it works fantastically

@@unintelgen2510 sure. I'm happy enough to try

Xbox controllers don't have a gyro, but if you're up for some hardcore hardware modding (or you know someone who is), I'm sure it's possible to get it working, but that's beyond me

The centering button is useful for repositioning vertically, but not very useful for horizontal corrections. I prefer a "gyro off" button, since it is much more versatile. It can be thought of as like lifting the mouse off the mousepad to reposition it. I've never seen someone ask that mouse-aiming games have a centering button to counter vertical mouse drift, and I doubt I ever will :)

@@JibbSmartGD yeah, but we know that console games tend to innovate in small ways. Maybe for now we can just ask for gyro aiming on consoles. Then in the middle of the generation we can ask for multiple ways to use gyro aiming

This might happen in the near-ish future. Keep an eye out!

You can do it with a Switch Pro Controller, but JoyShockMapper doesn't support the Steam Controller. It should be possible these days just using Steam, though