Thank you for tuning into this important debate and discussion. Please post questions & comments you would like me to raise in the next sitdown. And please remember to like, share, subscribe & join as a paying member. We appreciate your support 🙏🏽❤️
Bra Ike you made is very SIMPLE, u broke it down to the simplest form for everyone to understand. You didnt need all the political jargon...thank you...
Here is a question Pen, please ask Rutendo if he does acknowledge Zanu's bad governance is the reason why there is mass migration into SA? Because the Zim situation and tribal hate in the country is not on Sanctions
Ask Rutendo why he has so many solutions for South Africa's problems but doesn't want to go back home and apply that big brain of his to his country's problems, the guy doesn't even want to go home to vote.
My question is do these guys really think Africa will be 'liberated' or stable with Integration? Shouldn't we try to push for segration? Get one country to share a similar way of life and culture. Clearly pan Africanism has not worked as a concept the outputs is horrendous to say the least. There is no accountability, listening to Rutendo all Zim problems start with SA and ends with SA. My question is: 1. Is integration (pan Africanism) as concept working for South Africa or Africa? 2. Are Zim actually able to find solutions to their own problems instead of blaming everyone even dbsa or sabc. I mean Pen talks a lot about an alternative to SA media that's what you guys have done with podcasts. Why isn't there a Zim podcaster doing the samething creating the alternative.
@@NinohBrown Integration has been shoved down our throats globally as something desirable and anyone who dares question it as the best way to structure our societies is immediately attacked as being a racist and/or xenophobe. It's a fact that societies that are homogenous in terms of language, cultures, ethnicities and a possess a single shared national identity tend to be more socially cohesive. Look at Japan, The Scandanavian countries, China, etc. Pan-Africanism will never work, too much variation in language, and culture in Africa. We are already contending with tribalism in S.A, now imagine if we tried integrating all these different tribes and cultures into one.
As a foreigner I am grateful to South Africa bcoz there is no other country that would have allowed me to accomplish what I have living as a free Black Man...South African people and institutions have welcomed me and I dont consider them hostile or irrational...People must also understand that South Africa is a Post-Colonial State and there is a limit to its capacity given its own challenges...SA has done a lot more for Africans than other African Countries have or would have done...SA doesn't have infinite capacity so people have to deal with that at some point
As a foreigner, I agree with you 100 percent. Also I think it's important to state that these two do not represent everyone. Rutendo and Ike do not represent everyone.
How I wish Politicians would fix the country so people don’t feel threatened anymore. I wish that we would live in harmony. I love myself so much that I see myself in every black person.
As a Zimbabwean who lives in Zimbabwe I think Ike is on point Zimbabweans should just come back home and deal with our economy and leave South Africans to deal with their challenges. Ordinary South Africans don't owe anyone anything
I agree. They voted to chase farmers out and destroy an economy, just like we are doing. If you vote for this you must suffer. Don't chase farmers out and then come to their country looking for food. Rather watch your brother's doing exactly the same in our criminally run junk status.
It's not that easy, I think what South African should've done is make a case to lift all those sanctions cause you guys might not have the resources, that would go a long way in balancing both states.
Ike speaks about practical issues that we from the ghettos of SA relate very well with , while Rutendo is speaking more from an academic and research led narrative , but we need more of these conversations , and the facilitator has done his homework.
Rutendo debate is aimed at blaming RSA for Zim problems, we do not owe Zimbabwe a cent, this debate is out of context, are we now in a history class or the issue of foreigners in RSA? to be precise not only Zim but all foreigners at large.
Rutendo is starting to sound like that friend who plugged you with a job and start feeling entitled to your salary forever , we can't be held hostage by history and entitlement
I cant even buy a house in my own country let alone get an RDP so a Zimbabwean is entitled to my rights as a citizen of South Africa. Basically Retendo is saying we owe Zimbabweans every thing we have. A South African has no right to own rights. Zimbabwean saved us so we owe them our Constitutional rights.
What's confusing me is that Zimbabweans have so many answers for South Africa (how South african economy should be structured) yet they can't solve Zimbabwean' economic situation... HAI ngeke bafwethu ake nizame okunye. Why study South African problems in such a way that you can even come up with solutions but can't come up with solutions for your own economy...
According to him it's South Africans fault hebanna this guy instead of fighting for your own country he sat more than an hour hour saying South Africa this South Africa that
Zimbabweans tend to look down on South Africans, they have this condescending attitude towards us and continue to call us lazy yet they are enjoying the fruits of our labour
The country doesnt belong to you because you have an ID. We all belong to SA with our mixed heritage. Africa is one and let that sink in your head. You rather love and embrace whites and indians and hate those who look like you and related to you😂😂
Ike won this debate. Rutendo is smart, but does not have a sufficient argument as to why Zimbabweans and other illegal foreigners should be in South Africa. We have to be for South Africans first. No other country in the world allows illegal foreigners to do what they want in their country except for South Africa.
I am from Botswana, we too are tired of Zimbabweans. Truly. We are tired of their crimes. Harassing our women. We are tired. Ike is right that there are certain crimes that you know right away are perpetuated by Zims. I support the put South Africans first movement. You can't be oppressed by other Africans in your own country.
Absolutely! That's pretty much what it is in a nutshell and that's what SAns are saying over and over but they continue to be invalidated and called names.
This is only true when you expect your government to provide everything for you. South Africans really are children of the failing ANC. Look at all the biggest empires of the world; You cant become one without foreigners. So comrade, I would adopt anyone as long as they contribute to the empowerment of my family. e.g British Common Wealth, China, UNITED STATES of A and EU.
Sit down gentlemen the episode wasn't about history lessons. It was about the issue of foreigners in our country. Your Rutendo guy was tweaking history for benefit anyway
yet you have south africans in europe , china , amerika and even other african coutnries...there are many boers in sadc....so we will continue to come to SA whether you like it or not
All that this conversation showed me is that people feel we owe them our lives! We are nothing without them. So they can do as they please. That's why we are not speaking about the current situation but stating the lies that happened over 40 years ago.
South Africans were in their country fighting their struggle, our uncles and aunts were ducking bullets, didn't pack their bags , Zimbabweans are fighting their struggle on social media in foreign lands and hope for change, can't even go for few days to go vote, this blackmail by Zimbabweans around history doesn't hold any waters, if you love your country that much you'll fight for it like South Africans did
You were given freedom not independence…you won the wrong war hence the economy is still in the hands of the oppressor and you have nothing to show for it
Rutendo creates stories, if Ike focused on clarifying his mentally created history, the interview was not going to discuss any relevant current issues. Ike swayed the interview to mention the current challenges. Ww all know history and we are talking about current issues.
Im a Zimbabwean in S.A . undocumented 🙈. I feel so embarrassed that we are stooping so low to the extend of bringing history to justify our invasion of this country . We need to put our house in order as Zimbabweans
@@CwengaMaqhashuUnite how? By forcefully being here,? That's not unity but display of arrogance for not wanting to face your own problems at home and holding SA at ransom for the mistakes made by your politicians. South Africa does not want to unite with all Africans here but we want you all to go home and make your countries to be economically stable, so that we can also be able to deal with our social issues. Only then we can cooperate and do business together. There won't be any uniting done in SA!!
Uyazi i was surprised to see Ike in the driving mood cruising so well he really didn't disappoint like Rutendo who had no points at all.Rutendo went overdrive trying to obscure the burning issue of immigration.there is this lie that Zanu and Mugabe contributed in assisting ANC to fight the Apartheid government it really irritates me because Zanu even arrested some MK comrades for having links with Zapu
We have been carrying Zimbabweans for 30years now, sacrificing our children future.We get arrogance, infrastructure destruction,betrayal, entertainment..Yet no Zimbabweans are pushing nor fighting their struggle, but happy and wanting our citizenship taking our Governoment to court😢
They have no pride shame... they want to be something they are not so badly... they must go home... we are busy dealing with ANC bona they love ANC... they taking us back... go home and vote. Finish n klaar.
Why do you get bothered by other Africans in your country? , there are plenty of South Africans here in Zambia we are not bothered because we do not view it as okay to hate or wish for any fellow African to feel unwelcomed, I feel other countries need to start being hostile towards you south africans in their countries, make sure you do not need any other African countries for anything! Yall should be worried about the whites who have always been in your countries stealing from you since time in memorial yet you are here complaining about other countries working in your countries its disgusting that most of you feel so independent & better than other African countries we should have left yall alone during apartheid. Yall are lazy and ungrateful chasing foreigners whole give all South Africans jobs and degrees its just ridiculous and appalling.
I feel grateful as a Kenyan to have had the opportunity to hear the diverse perspectives of Icke Khumalo and Rutendo Matinyarare. Their insightful ideas highlight the significance of history in understanding our present challenges. While acknowledging our past, it's essential not to dwell on it excessively, recognizing that today's issues differ somewhat from those of the past. As Africans in the 21st century, we must approach our challenges comprehensively as a continent. With the advancements in technology and access to information, we have the tools to enhance our economies and formulate effective policies. It's crucial to utilize these resources wisely, ensuring they're not squandered through corruption and mismanagement. Furthermore, we should move away from the culture of blaming others for our setbacks. While recognizing past mistakes is important, dwelling on them serves no purpose. Instead, we should focus on reclaiming our self-reliance and working towards prosperity. I envision a unified Africa where countries collaborate, share ideas, capital, and resources for mutual benefit.
Summing up what Rutendo is saying Zimbos are never going to fight their leaders they came to repay themselves for helping SA indefinitely🤔 interesting.
They never really helped 😅. Mugabe refused to helped SA many times they say. This guy is not entirely telling the truth. He's taking glory in what other African countries did. Open your eyes please SA. You owe nothing to these people.
Please dont judge Zimbabweans based on this guys views, he represents The Zimbabweans government, not the the ordinary Zimbabweans in South Africa, we are grateful that you allowed us to stay, and we dont feel entitled at all ,we are at the mercy of your generosity, Thank you South Africa
From my conversation with immigrants working in SA, they say that they want EFF to win so that the borders can be open. So I would think that, that is what they are waiting for.
Angola Played such a huge role in the liberation struggle of Namibia..and thats why until today an Angolan is not seen as a foreigner in Namibia..personally as a child of someone who was raised in refugee camps..My father taught me to show gratitude and love to the people of Angola,Tanzania ,Zambia and Cuba..they went out of their way for Namibia 🇳🇦🇳🇦….and we shall pass on that gratitude to many of our generations to come.
West Africans flooding our borders? Africa is about to find itself in a huge war. Everywhere globalism as back fired, and you keep pushing anti white nonsense for what Latin Europe not white People do . The time is a ALREADY here as blacks are rising up against each other because of west Africa
Isaac he knows very well about the current issues but he chooses to act as though they dont exist because acknowledging the issues honestly and truthfully would be an admission of guilt
I worked as a casual in Fast food industry in Cape Town with many other young South Africans years today you won't find much South Africans, doing these jobs last night my way home I found a young gentlemen about 20 years old scrounging in garbage for food, I drove past turned around gave him some canned food I had in my car he was so grateful for the little I shared extremely well spoken, I have nothing against Foreigners but we have to ask who is gonna look out for our people? Over heard a Pakistani looking from someone to work 8 to 5 Monday to Sunday for R400 Rands a week? If we don't take those jobs we lazy?
I agree 100% with you. But why is south Africa now doing the same, chasing white farmers away...if we as south Africans can just work together we can be the most prosperous country, but instead we fight one another ...we should be fighting for our country not amongst each other. Let's get foreigners out and employ south Africans in south africa
Great history debate. We understand history is needed for context. But please address current issue's facing Zimbabwe & South Africa with illegal immigration.
ANC headquarters was based in Zambia & our country was independent from 1964 yet Rutendo underplays its role & overestimates Zim' s role that was only independent since 1980. Tanzania & Angola was also a frontline state with Zambia but we dont have this level of entitlement on SA! Let SA live please geez!
@@zakhemabaso6644 eswatini & Lesotho are indirectly province's of S.A. your population works here so if I were you I'll keep quiet cause the spotlight will be on you and you will wish you never say what you said we owe you big( O)
"The Only borders that irritate people seems to be South Africa's borders"... Author Unknown... But without even listening to the conversation, African, Pakistani, Chinese, European Countries, where their so called 'leaders' and making their countries seemingly not a conducive place to stay in or a happy place to be, must start making their countries attractive for their citizens to return... Cause it is not being Xenophobic, but facts are facts, cause we are competing for basic and other economic opportunities, especially in the small business sector. The entire JHB CBD small business sector has been overly flooded by non South Africans - and those small businesses for the most part does not employ any South Africans... And the level of criminal activities conducted by many many many of these folk is insurmountable... Why does everyone not all flock to Zimbabwe for example, or to Botswana, so that South Africa can get a bit of a breather to find its own footing.
The reason why the South African boarder seems to irritate people is tantamount to why the American boarders irritate people... South Africa is one of the few countries that have resources and the level of education many seek for, also South Africa has adopted western culture, is a well spoken country in English amongst many, provides benefits to foreigners and unlike America (of which I currently reside for the past 4 years) is much more easier to enter more than many African countries! Our government does not take priority to South African people, but cares more about the housing of people seeking refugee and using them as commodities to suit their own personal agendas. We cannot deny the fact that there's many illegal foreigners (I'd argue more than documented foreigners) in our country and they benefit alot more than our own people. This is a fight bigger than us, we need true intervention.
@@TheBoringGuySAthis is really sad for us ordinary citizens of SA. What do u of Gayton Mackenzie who’s vocal about these issues and he put all SAns first?
Problem we have is a 1 way traffic to our strenuous economy also with the crimes these people create and I am 1 of those South Africans who say hell to borderless Africa.
Rutendo loves the sound of his own voice and his views are right according to him and others must tool and not disagree. Fact of the matter is this, South Africa remains one of the few countries that is inclusive and allows foreigners to live out their dreams outside they're homeland. I dare him to go to Nigeria and have these kind of debates and lets see what happens to him.
Shoutout........to Ike Khumalo Mtungwa........ for representing us and our beautiful country🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦❤️, you stood with us Ndoda this guy from Zim is always talking nonsense about our leaders. He needs to go back to Zimbabwe 🇿🇼 and use he's intelligent to fix Zimbabwe. Asibonge 🤝🏿🙌🏿
I agree with my South African brother our Zimbabweans brothers must start concentrating to free their country and go back to fight their evil government than rather live on easy street
That’s all we are preaching and want from Zim, if that day happens I will personally help Zim achieve that. But folding arms with no cause of action, isn’t going to liberate Zim.
Yes, he was right but Rutendo won't tell you that because he is dishonest. Mugabe himself is on record saying SA must fight for their own liberation yet according to Rutendo Zim was rooting for us, a lot of bullshit
@@Beatyoutoit34 🤣🤣🤣🤣... Hayi... Bro, I'm happy that Baba IKE put this small minded boy to his place. He ( Rutendo) has been putting a lot of misguided content just to feed his Pro Zimbabwean agenda.
Our immigration policy is ok but ur climbing crocodile in Limpopo river so immigration policy won’t apply to illegal foreigners as crocodiles can’t stamp passports 😂
It is a strategy, they train you to dominate the discussion and talk too long so that the opponent and the interviewer does not get the chance to question you. You control the narrative.
@@jabulilemlaka6253Because the solution starts with free and fair elections in Zim, something ZANU PF will never accept. And he makes it a point to not touch even the low hanging fruit.
@penual - Please ask the two gentlemen this questions: Health and Social Services: How can South Africa's health and social service systems accommodate both the needs of its own citizens and the foreign population, particularly in terms of access, affordability, and quality?
I believe part of the solution is for people like Ike to use his influence to force the government to de-register and remove a lot of the foreign funded NGOs who push a human rights agenda that destabilises society.
I am correct in saying Matinyarare's intro is referring to immigration during an " ARMS STRUGGLE" in SA. Only a handful of SAns went into exile to various African countries due to the apartheid regime. This is not the type of immigration exodus that SA is seeing today. Most Africans are entering SA today with the INTENTION to grab opportunities from SAns NOT to replan/calculate ways on how to go back to their countries and fight for change. The immigration situation in SA today cannot be compared to what Rutendo is talking about..
My uncle is a MK veterans he said in Zimbabwe his friends were killed by Zimbabwean. He said they hated south africans in exil they treated us less than humans. This guy Rutendo is a liar
The ignancy in here is Horrible The white Opp ressors are loving these comments by Black people Rutendo is partially responsible for getting sanctions lifted in Zim, and some of you dare to call him a liar… smh shame shame shame
He is just defending us rutendo but he knows he's not going change anything in zim except guns to guns blood to blood ....debating won't change the fact that we are struggling because of our ignorance n fear at the same time.....
Ike is an advocate, his argument capabilities are clear and well structured. Benson is a good historian, talking about the past... The current situation seemed out of his reach.
I understand Ike very well 🤔🤞🏾🙏🏾as South African we never had any problems with our foreign brothers up until they see us as lazy people to be fed with drugs, crime and human trafficking etc. Anyway Thanks Penuel and your guest Ike and Rutendo this was greatest debate we need more please 🙏🏾🤞🏾🙌🏾
There is a difference between housing the ANC and the populace,instead South Africa is housing your citizens,of which they disrespect the people who house them
Rutendo is campaigning for Mnangakwa ZanuPF right now and saying he is a best leader for Zimbabwe, it is mind boggling that he lives in South Africa, alot of Zimbabweans are complaining about ZanuPF but still vote for them
There is no justification whatsoever for being in a country illegally.we are suffering as legal citizens and are competing for already scarce resources.we appreciate the history stories but this has gone out of hand.
To add to what you say foreigners label South Africans as lazy and uneducated but they cannot help their country to be like SA economically with the kind of education and willingness to work hard they claim to possess.
This is epic. Let's have an audience next time that will have a chance to ask questions. And journalists. Also try to establish order coz there is more of a quarrel than dialogue.
Truth be told, Rutendo has a very strong urgument based on facts which are very hard to dispute. The number of Zimbabweans and foreign nationals in South Africa can nor longer be ignored. Let fix our countries, economies and unity.
This man was in Zimbabwe last month and selling how ZanuPF is progressing in the right direction, he spoke about International Airport in Zimbabwe and the thriving mining sector. Perhaps what Zimbabwe needs now is human resources to go home and contribute positively to the economy.
Ike is massive, he represented us well. Penuel please defend Ike on his time too. Rutendo gets more time, and he chows Ike's time too with interfering on every sentence Ike makes. However, this conversation made me appreciate South Africa more, and also learn history and see how more we can be united as Africans.
To the Minister and Ministry....Can Home affairs create platforms where we can report Foreigners with identity documents.....Please Please...so that they can produce documentation
Rutendo would rather debate a South African with issues concerning south Africans and he would ignore the issues that affect him and his family in his own native country called Zimbabwe... plus Rutendo will mislead you with his farfached history 😢😮
Exactly that's a problem with Rutendo matinyaeare blaming sanctions all the time we need zimbabwe to work hard and change the current dictatorship in zimbabwe Rutendo should agree yes we as zimbabweans we have failed because this thing of blaming sanctions honestly we are going nowhere the west and Americans are fighting for their own people so blaming sanctions my brother Rutendo should be asking the current government what are we doing for our people rather than blaming this guy Rutendo is a lemme
Hi Penuel. I watch your podcast regularly. I am a Zimbabwean staying in South Africa and I would like to give you an alternate perspective to what you get week after week from Rutendo. He doesn’t speak for us. Please give us a chance to give you a different view about Zimbabwean migration to SA.
I was harassed in Zimbabwe because I couldn't find my passport am South African, Nigeria made me pay at the airport because I had overstayed with few days it was that or I miss my flight and Swaziland they got to my hotel to kick me out because I had decided to leave the following day I was tired to travel and the same people expect SA to carry them free of charge not fair
I like how Ike is outlining socioeconomic factors that are currently sabotaging our economy. On the other side Rudento is focusing on history that doesn't bult to this debate. Big to Ike
He is living in past. It's gone...... that's why its called History. In South Africa... we live for now.....preparing for our children's future. Makasiyeke thina ngeHis story yakhe.
Ike...i like it when you mentioned that Zimbabweans they label them selves as refugees but come December and April Easter holidays they go back home.....what type of refugee have free movement as they wish ?? Kumnandi emzantsi....
Growing up in Durban Point, I had the opportunity to experience a vibrant community filled with diversity. Unfortunately, like many foreigner kids, I witnessed the negative impact of crime and drug-related issues. It's crucial for all of us, regardless of our background, to join forces in the fight against crime. We must report those individuals who are ungrateful for the opportunities provided by this country and are contributing to criminal activities. Together, we can create a safer environment and build a better future for everyone. Let's stand united against crime and work towards a brighter tomorrow.
Yeah, i did not expect him to have the patience to entertain the well spoken time wasting Rutendo. Unfortunately the history doesn't help the current situation
Ike, thank you for representing us the ordinary South African so well. Haaayi wena Rutendo you are high on something i believe because this 'sense of entitlement' is sickening 💔 it's giving a not woke person vibe😢... You can't still be holding on to history like the ANC is... heal my brother from the ancient wounds, and go back to your own countries (all foreigners) and deal with your own struggles for the sake of your children and leave us alone to deal with ours as you can clearly see that we are engulfed by our own troubles... South Africa can not house the whole of Africa, it does not have unlimited resources as you can clearly see because you 🙄 live here, even if we maybe owed you for what your countries did for us a loooong time ago when they did, we surely must have paid our debt now. Ike said something very important that even if our people ran to other countries for refuge it was but only a few of them NOT the entire SA bathong. Don't be helping our government with it's porous laws to oppress the people of this country. ALL FOREIGNERS MUST JUST GO BACK TO THEIR OWN COUNTRIES EXCEPT FOR THOSE COMING HERE WITH SCARCE SKILLS.
As an Angolan ur brothers I love to see this kind of respectful conversation I would like to see more of this, and in some points I understand the Southafrican side coz in Angola happens similar things our brothers from Congo some of them migrate there to do crime is hurts twice coz they r our brothers.
@@mandlenkosihlazo977 It abit difficult coz of the politics u need to be really persistent but is full of opportunity, nowadays Is full of people from Senegal, Eritrea, Mali they r on the grocery store business and people from Congo man They r Angolan too they are day since day 1 ahahahahaha
Ghana and Nigeria experienced the same where they actually mass deported each other, each country has limited resources for its citizens, bringing a whole continent into that one country creates a big problem, Where I live it’s a war zone at night , typing this now an illegal mining explosion just went off
The only solution and remedy to this problem of foreigners this is the take responsibility of their own countries regardless of which country they come from
