It was called Mutation mode I think. And yeah, they played it during a TI for their all star event because it was an official dota game mode for a bit. The modifier you’re talking about was killsteak power I think. There’s some other modifiers like all heroes get a tower to plant, and shared runes. The river might also have been slippery.
Baumi always asks how is it going, but I never answer, until today. So yeah, it is going fine. A new curriculum is around the corner so that is always exciting and it's time for me to finish a whole day of deep cleaning. Of course for the last things I've got to do I'll put today's upload on, thanks Baumi. Other than that I have nothing to add. I wish you and Miki a good day.
the only universal heroes that feel universal are void spirit and bane everyone else feels like they're _hybrid._ as in, they have two primary attributes but instead of making a system where heroes can have an arbitrary number of primary attributes, they just went with universal and slapped everyone else in there. but, like, really. io, timber, enigma, and magnus are clearly there to scale with str and int, lycan marci and pango are clearly meant to be str and agi, and veno venge dazzle and willow are clearly meant to be agi and int. the tertiary attribute included with universal doesn't have any clear reason to be there with those guys, but valve opted for a universal system and so you get weird things like marci punching harder by picking up a wizard stick
there was some day/videos ago a genius way to change how universal hero worked, where those heroes would gain any perk benefit while the other ones would. I just had a different take on it thinking about void spirit character: universal heros are actually attribute fluid heroes, their main attribute is what's is their highest attribute at the moment. it would allow for a chracter to focus on whichever attribute they want allowing them to have a different playstile each match (if they want to) while still scaling with damage, but on par with the other attribrutes. It wouldn't be a new attribute as it is now, but it would be a new class of hereos still
Wouldn't really work due to a heroes natural stat growths one stat would always be better to just focus in your build (for dmg obviously wich some heros don't care about) unless their stat growths where all really close to each other
@@matheusrudzevicius6448 well as we saw with current universal heroes the stats growth were changed, so I don't see why it wouldn't happen here. It's not a reason it wouldn't work
If i were to decide the universal heroes should be Mostly the summons Enigma Lonedruid Venomancer Visage Chen WR is fine Void spirit is the most fitting for universal for all the spirits Brewmaster ( Its just fitting for his character) Nyx Batrider And IO (Lycan willow and pango is debatable) Also I really dislike darkseer being universal His entire character is literally all about the power of the mind and shit So he should be intelligence I get the idea of transitioning invoker to universal since he's been garbage for a long time already but he should be int and you can't convince me any further
Speaking of HoTS, they removed the "Specialist" role a while ago, which is a shame imo. Specialists were more so the Seige heroes, the lane pushers. But similarly to DoTA, they moved away from pushing strats and consequently removed the title and reworked a lot of talents or abilities(mostly talents) so they are more either DPS or supports. Don't get me wrong former specialists are still monsters at pushing a lane, but they are more tuned to generic fighting. Some for the better, some for the worse, some hardly changed at all tbh.
universal heroes are not over tuned, they have the same stats pre universal unless you stack all attributes which is harder than you make it seem.... you need at least double attributes on an item to get the same damage as a single stat hero.... universal heroes are special cuz certain items are considered damage items for them when they normally would be mediocre
what .? What numbers you pulling out of yo ass Normal hero gets 1 damage per primary attribute, universal heroes get 0.7 Already ignoring the fact that universal heroes benefit from all stats, you would only need 1/0.7 [roughly 50%) more attributes on an item to get same damage. 1.5 is very far from your “at least double”. Secondly they get stats from all attributes, so there’s that and it adds a lot of damage and versatility Then lastly they get an absurd 2.1 damage for every all stat (0.7 from each) and all stats are provided by many items like iron branch and skadi) They are overturned because all universal supports suck ass as they can’t buy items for the massive damage and all universal cores are broken.
Marci always screams agility to me not strength. She leaps around super fast and nimbly, her ultimate makes her attack super fast, yes she can throw super big characters but also there's that kind of "using opponents momentum against them" idea to me.
I don't understand why it's a bad thing that universal is the best attribute. What difference does it really make since heroes are designed around their attributes. Universal heroes tend to have less base stats, because of this. Appart from something like Vipers 25 talent it's not like heroes can just swap to universal. The only real argument against universal I could see is if it being better makes it harder to balance those heroes. I have not really looked at regular dota in a while so I don't know if it's a problem or not. I did watch a carry tier list video from BSJ and I don't think there was any universal heroes in the S and A tiers.
Problem with Uni heroes is that they can benefit from any Attribute, it is their greatest strength, but also a fatal weakness. Just as Baumi said, the fact they have 0.7 attack damage scaling is just bizzare. It clearly had to be at most 0.3 at the stage of merely amusing the idea of Universal, and maybe could go a little higher for the sake of balance, maybe even up to 0.5, but having them start at 0.6 and then go up from there just serves to show Universal doesn't work. Like, sure, Uni won't get as much attack damage from Heart as a Str hero, but they will still have 70% more damage, than any Agi or Int hero can get from Heart, or in other words, they loose 30% in comparison to Str, but get 70% against both Int and Agi. 70%+70%-30%=110% 10% may not seem as much, but it is an advantage Uni heroes get on average, when it comes to single-attribute-items. But there aren't only items that give a single Attribute, some give double Attributes or even allstats, and that's where math goes bonkers. Because, how much damage would a Str hero get from Yasha/Kaya? 0%. Agi or Int heroes? 50%. Uni? 70%. It only gets worse for something like Skadi, because there normal hero tends to get just 33% of possible damage, while Uni still maintains 70% scaling, now going to 37% advantage. Whatever item you make, Uni heroes will always, without a fail, benefit from it more, than any other hero of any Attribute. But, of course, being cautious bastards they are, Volvo lowered Uni heroes starting Attributes and their gain from levels, so that attack damage stays at least somewhat comparable to other heroes... But Atrributes don't just mean damage, they are survivability, pushing potential and casting. Your Uni hero has low Str to prevent them from getting too much damage? Well, congrats, they got no health now and keel over from a couple of nukes. Raise Str for normal survivability? You have to lower either their Agi or Int to keep that attack damage in check. Low Agi? Now they have no armour and die from lane creeps looking at them wrong way, also having no attack speed to lasthit in time. Low Int? Now Uni hero has no mana, and will either cast a single spell before they need to return to fountain to replenish mana, or they'll have manacosts so damn low, that buying a single Int or raw mana item will solve all of their mana problems for forever, making even more problems for Intelligence, and does Int need any more problems, than it already got? Well, Volvo think it does. They see no problem with having Uni heroes... or with converting more of them into Uni heroes. Uni heroes do have balancing problems regarding items and Atrributes, but I have sneaking suspicions they plan on fixing it by gradually making all heroes Universal and eventually retiring the whole Attribute system completely. That way they would have no problems with Uni heroes at all, wouldn't they now? So, yeah, as Baumi said, it would be fine to maybe have dozen or so very specific heroes be Uni. That way plain balancing them would be much easier, but also keep a little bit of theme going on. However, there isn't just a dozen, and more are sure to follow. Uni heroes are flawed in the system we are used too, but their omnipresence might signify we will loose this system altogether, because Uni heroes are just better, than the entire system, they do have The Best Attribute in the entire game. Baumi and people like him see Uni heroes as a problem, but truth might be they are the solution to a problem we've just grown attached to. And that scares me.
@@Orange_Tree_ This sounds all good in paper, but do you have any practical examples of the design being bad? Have pro players complained about universal heroes? are there alot underpowered/overpowered universal heroes? Right now this discussion seems to be completely theoretical.
@@MDK2k Is complaints of pro players the only metric you consider reliable for how broken a hero is? If you need a practical example, you just have to look at Invoker's latest statistics. Many high level players just don't get Exort early on anymore, because they have more than enough damage from their attacks and Cold Snap/Urn combo. Volvo tried to circumvent it by lowering Invoker's statgain, but he already was such a glass cannon heavily reliant on casting his nine spells for damage, that lowering his Str any further will push him through fatal thresholds in multiple midlane matchups, and there just isn't any Agi left in him to lower without pushing him out of midlane. All that lowering his Intgain did, was make players focus on less than a half of Invoker's kit, yet dude is thriving. Turning Uni broke Invoker and made him overpowered with something close to 55% winrate across all skilllevels. What is kinda insane when you consider, that it is an Invoker, a hero, that is supposed to be too complicated for new and bad players, 55% winrate meaning even they perform above average with just those four spells they get without Exort. If Invoker doesn't suffer any fatal nerfs in forseeable future, the pro players will only get better at abusing Univoker. But, of course, not all Uni heroes were converted equal, and probably the worst end of the deal was given to Broodmother. She already wasn't a very popular hero in 7.x before becoming Uni, since powercreep turned Spiderlings' threat non-existant and practically left Broodmother without an ultimate, but she was somewhat getting by in early- to midgame as an auto-attacker with Isatiable Hunger. But becoming Uni took away her earlygame stats and presence completely, making her one of the least popular and successful heroes in the current meta. Not only she has too little health and armour to lane normally, but without any Int she has no mana, so a few Broodmains tend to only scale two of her spells early on - wonder where we saw this one? - since they just can't cast all three. And the one they skip nowadays is one that used to be Broodmother's only solace, Insatiable Hunger, because for whatever fucking reason Volvo changed bonus from giving flat attack damage to a percentile of her base damage, which, theoretically, means Broodmother could be one of the most insane superlate carries in the game with that bonus and Uni heroes getting more base damage than any other heroes, but in reality she has no tools for early-, mid-, or even early lategame. And if they try to buff her stats any further than they already did in last patch, that dangerous timer until Broodmama becomes undefeatable carry will grow shorter. And if they try to revert Insatiable Hunger, flat attack damage will either be too powerful on Uni hero in early game, or, if Volvo choose to nerf, impractical for a lategame Uni hero, meaning they'll need to find a new niche for Broodmother. I could bring you more examples of how Uni heroes are breaking the game in both directions, but do you really need some shitter on the Internet reciting you news articles, reddit posts and Dotabuff statistics? Tho, from your reply, I get that you prefer it that way, not that there is anything wrong with it. As there is nothing wrong with Uni heroes. Like I stated before, it's not that they are the problem, but the entire Attribute system is a problem for them. If all heroes were to turn Uni, there would be no inherent balance issues, and pro players, in my opinion, would only welcome the change with open arms, hence why you won't see them complain.
