Your conversation just struck a wonderfully vivid memory. Way back in the 60's & 70's, when in Jr. high school, I was a terrible student; my mind always on what was happening outside. I managed to fail English (of all things) in 9th grade. Then, in summer school, taking a make-up English class, we had a most unlikely looking fellow (Mr. Reilly, if you're out there) teaching class... kind of a brutish truck driver look to him. But he started reading E.A. Poe... walking up and down the aisles, bellowing Poe's work in incredibly an emotional way... and I was hooked! After that class I never stopped reading everything I could get my hands on. Thank you Mr. Reilly... an amazing teacher!
@@brianmeen2158an old story. he can't lay off real time side comments in the middle of the guest's or even his own speaking. he should record 2 cameras, 2 audio tracks, then have an editor remove every nonessential interruption. instant improvement
A very nice conversation. I don’t think that Douglas Murray was bored. I think he enjoys listening to people. It’s one of the reasons he is such an intelligent and articulate person because he listens.
This is intended as a gentle, constructive criticism of Professor Krauss, who I greatly value and appreciate for this series of honest conversations. There are times, professor, lengthy portions of this conversation, when you completely dominate and don't allow your guests space to develop their ideas. We all get excited by these chats, and I understand. A lot of what I am speaking of is the professor sputtering and trying to formulate a line of thought as Douglas was trying fruitlessly to interject a coherent comment. I am certainly interested in your thoughts, but the focus should be more on your guests with more of your comments following and eliciting and expanding the guest's thoughts. That being said, I do thank you for what you bring us even as I suggest how you might refine and improve the conversations.
That's exactly right, I thought the same. There were interesting questions from Professor Kraus, but he rambled them on too long, padded them too much, and then interrupted Douglas before he could get into the full sway of his answer.
This drove me insane. 90% of the video is Krauss rambling about topics he hopes to get to and then only allowing very short comments from Murray before Krauss goes on and on and on. There's nothing worse than feeling like you desperately want to hear from the guest and never get the chance.
@@32island11 Couldn't agree more. I despise Murray, but wanted to hear his views in this exchange. Krauss always speaks more than his guests, many of whom I revere. Please, Dr Krauss, let your guests do the majority of the talking!
Douglas Murray, intellectually elegant, deeply insightful, brilliant writer and social commentator ❤ the man who made conservative values SEXY again 👏🏽 love him!
So deeply insightful he wrote in I think in the UK's "The Spectator" , that a Trump winin 202 would be a positive outcome, - 2- 3 weeks before the Capitol riots.
@@andreaking4818 Thanks for the clarification...interesting that I had twisted the memory to conform to a confirmational bias. However, his recent attendance at The Conservatism Conference, claiming nationalism was a positive aim for any country but that the Germans "mucked it up" twice, was rather unwise. He views the world through a privileged, Eton-educated, right-wing len.
@andreaking4818 the UK was expecting co-operation from the Trump administration for post-Brexit trade deals. Biden obviously deals only with China and Ukraine 🙄 obviously...
Introduction 0:00 Poetry and other writing 2:52 Murray's origins story 21:35 Being gay when young / primary school 30:22 University: humanities and sciences 35:10 How Murray became a neo-conservative / free speech 50:00 The Madness of the Crowds 1:01:20 Pretending to know what we don't know 1:17:02 Chapter 1: Gay 1:36:25 What is equality? Merit 1:41:40 Woke capitalism / virtue signaling 1:49:25 Differences: hardware versus software / Questions you are not allowed to ask 1:52:55 Chapter 2: Women / Chat GPT 2:06:40 Chapter 3. Race 2:30:00 American foreign Policy / Brexit 2:43:20 Closing poetry 2:56:00
Thoroughly enjoyed this brilliant interlude on this fine Saturday afternoon! Imagine a world where this is considered perfectly normal and expected discourse versus what we now live through almost daily in North America. Thank you Dr. Krauss and Mr.Murray for allowing us this moment of sanity!!
I used to hold professor Krauss in quite high regard until I watched a debate that was held in Spain a few years ago on climate change, in which his first statement was "I don't know what we are doing here discussing this subject, the science is settled". He of all people should know, science is never settled.
While I appreciate that this discussion is here, it's another interview where the host does 75% of the speaking, often going on at length about potential questions that are never actually arrived at for Douglas to answer. So much of this video is Douglas nodding while Lawrence talks at length. I just wish more of the time was given to hearing Douglas' answers and thoughts.
What a huge shame he will never have children of his own, I really really wish people like him could have tonnes of children - Why did he have to be gay?? Bloody nuisance when that happens. There is basically zero chance of several young Douglas replacements trained up by the man himself. How will young people know their worth if they are not told in this manner? I worry for the youth when the large majority of people they NEED will not be continuing their family past this generation because of whatever trap or reason. Douglas should get married and have half a dozen children! It's a massive loss to the gene pool if he doesn't, and I 100% blame it on paedo gays getting to him when he was younger. That's the primary reason people decide at the age of 10 that they must have been "born gay". To try to add rationale and reasons to recover from it that do not include murder then suicide. So the natural result of that trauma and mental gymnastics is to say "I way born this way this rape made no different to me" but its a LIE. Philip Scofield has had a whole pervert career on that notion. All his victims pretend to have been born as fucking damaged as they are now since meeting that disgusting paedophile Schofield.
anyone that is able to confront the left is, considering the left is by far the greatest threat to enlightenment values. Twas them that stripped dawkins of humanism award and are against free speech etc.
Oh, there are a few more notable Conservative "intellectuals" that will increase your "faith in humanity" even more. Richard Spencer, David Duke, Tucker Carlson, Jordan Peterson are some of the popular ones. Why not invite them, as well? 😏
OMG! Analysis of poetry is what has killed it!! I'm older however I am still teaching at a high school in Detroit. These past weeks I was to pass on or teach from the Poetry Unit. For my own sanity and that of my students I tossed out the "instruction on instruction of teaching poetry" and relied on my instincts, and that saved us all. I love your podcast with Stephen Fry and this one is just as fabulous. Thank you for saving minds and our collective consciousness.
I so looked forward to this interview, having followed Lawrence Krauss for a number of years. In contrast, I have just discovered Douglass Murray, and was really wanting to hear his ideas. Instead, I was increasingly frustrated as Krauss described Murray's ideas in his pre-question ramble, then failed to be quiet and listen to Murray's answer, and interrupted him continually. You can see Murray, himself, get worn down gradually; at one point, I seem to observe, even laughing as he opens his mouth to speak, and Krauss ONCE AGAIN dives in there so we cannot hear what Murray had to say! Incredibly disappointing.
I think that you are right. I was letting someone else’s opinion sway me. Mea culpa It’s two intellectuals having a substantive conversation. Refreshing indeed!
His knowledge/expertise of physics is irrelevant here. Krauss was interviewing Murray here and he repeatedly asked long, rambling questions then interrupted before Douglas could provide an expanded answer. It made it a frustrating listen.
Yesterday, I wrote a very gentle comment here to Professor Krauss trying to encourage him to hone his interview craft a bit; chats with the sorts of guests he attracts are treasures that need thoughtful handling. Reading the comments of others this morning kinda winds me up again: Nobody questions the professor's brilliance or the breadth of his intellect, which is far ranging. But there is a serious, narcissistic-like inability to see what a mess he often makes of these conversations by dominating them with his own thoughts, often thoughts that he is sputtering incoherently at length trying to formulate. I presume that if he were able to view himself and the interview as others do, he would correct this recurring pattern. Writers (even brilliant ones) need editors and media people need producers. Being a brilliant thinker in no way implies being a brilliant conversationalist. Professor Krauss, sir, you need to hire a producer and put him in another room with a microphone wired into your ear and put him in charge. Share with him your plan for the interview (which you talk far too much about and do not follow), and pretend that he is the boss telling you when to move along and to let your guest talk and such. You need this even if just for a training period. Interviewing is a skill, a craft and, sir, you really don't have it. What you have is a brilliant mind and the ability to attract other minds to these conversations. You badly need help in learning to shape these raw gems into polished stones. And you need to learn to focus on the guest. Looking back at what I wrote it occurs to me that Professor Krauss does not really accept the role of interviewer. I expect that he sees this as two lively minds crashing into each other in a way that emits a shower of brilliant sparks. Such magic might happen occasionally, but it is more frequently a hot mess when no one takes the roles as host and facilitator giving the spotlight to the guest.
Jordan Peterson has similar problems, but he has listened to criticisms like these and continues to improve all the time. (His conversations with Murray are always a treat.) It obviously takes practice. Hope Krauss follows a similar trajectory.
@@yatesfletcher1424 Yes! I have also been exasperated at JP. He just gets so excited and sometimes is just brainstorming when it would be better if he did less of that with guests who also have things to say.
I say this in as polite a way, as possible... Would you please please, please, ask Douglas to come back on ... But ONLY when you sorted out your connection issue and learned to let the subject speak. I have never seen anyone have someone as interesting and intelligent as Murray on, then just interrupt and continue to speak, asking a question and then cutting the person off when they are trying to answer it.. To ask another question, you will answer yourself- its as if you ONLY ask a question in order to make your own point. It's like a strange mix of ADHD and narcissism- Im not saying you have ADHD or are a narcissist.. Just saying that's how it comes off With Murray, all you have to do is ask a question and let him go .. Its HILARIOUSLY bad form to ask someone about their childhood and schooling and then cut them off when they are explaining just to say "As my friend Stephen Fry said..."
Oh that poem by Chidiock Tichborne...... I cried, tears were trickling down my face, it resounded so deeply in me, and recited by Douglas Murray, so beautiful, so so very beautiful and true. Feel blessed to have discovered it thanks to this great podcast. Thanks to both of you
If anyone can claim Christopher Hitchens throne as the most eloquent, courageous, contrarian intellectual speaker today, Douglas is that man. He wears the title with humility and hostility, when required, we are lucky to have him. Even more so in the current climate of victimhood which is worn as a badge of honour, a time when reducing complex issues to good and bad (black or white really) and is never afraid to call out the hypocrisy of both left and right, actually investigates the subjects he writes about, unlike many so-called writers today, visits the areas he criticises, and, if you read him properly, maintains his humanity while defending sovereignty and highlighting what is still truly wonderful about the West and Britain. Of all those who hate the countries that gave them the freedom to criticise them perhaps you take your freedom for granted, I don’t, and Douglas is the loudest, proudest voice in upholding the beauty we still have, the tolerance we dispel, the magnificence of our architecture, the rule of law, and the celebration of our history. That doesn’t mean we haven’t made mistakes, or that we can’t improve but for those who hate their homelands perhaps start with some introspection and see what lurks in your own heart, that truly despises you about your own existence. Until you see your own self- hatred you are condemned to project it onto that which gives you freedom and be nothing more than a vitriolic virtue signaller.
I am gaining massive respect for Lawrence Kraus over the last couple years. Obviously, I have always respect him as an intellectual, but his willingness to speak to people on the political right shows his courage and commitment to the enlightenment principles that he espouses.
@@Horsemanrayrespectfully, as an active religious Christian, highly conservative, I believe in forgiveness and redemption. I’ve certainly made many mistakes in my life. Anyone willing to fight for truth is someone I see as either an ally or a possible ally.
How fortunate for Douglas to have had parents who encouraged him instead of parents who whipped him into self loathing and knocked down completely who he was. It is circumstance, then, not choice and will, that determines what sort of adventure our lives become although if even the most unfortunate realizes their circumstance, at whatever stage of life, it is will that can elevate their lives to dignity. For one who is a wanderer or an observer, leaving no trace of having been may be the most heroic choice one can make.
I've read your contributions to New Scientist over the years - so glad you had the flexible intelligence to discover my hero of many years - Douglas Murray. Thank you.
THREE hours with Douglas Murray! What an honour for the loquacious, interrupting host, who is interesting and curious, but who also entirely fails to understand the essentially authoritarian nature of the EU.
This is sparkling, too many goodies to unwrap and praise in one comment, but the one quote that resonates with me right now is, “that a good scientist must always acknowledge that they may be wrong”. How illuminating, that we should all possess this humility.
On Lawrence’s, ‘words don’t matter” - I’m reminded of Chuang Tzu who realised that his anger was within him; it merely needed the bump of an external object to provoke it out of him.
I'm afraid I have to agree. He's very likeable but you end up hearing far too much about him; and frankly you can see Douglas struggling with his divagations which make actual dialogue impossible. I'm afraid I eventually became bored which is quite an achievement with someone like Douglas.
In the spirit of "a change is as good as a rest", listening to this delightful conversation was just the respite I needed after eating, breathing, sleeping, dreaming the war in Israel literally non-stop since Oct 7. This conversation itself, and its contents, are one of the beautiful things in life that our children are fighting for. I might sleep well tonight. G-d bless you all.
I love listening to Douglas…a bright light of common sense in this increasingly confusing world! But frustrated to hear yet ever more of Laurence waffling on and on and not allowing Douglas to speak…
I once walked past Douglas late at night around 11:30pm. He had his back to me while playing on his phone but i recognised him from his hair. As i returned from the direction i had walked past him (i was pottering around before a journey) he tilted his head slightly and i saw his face, but I did not bother him. It seems he had been out with friends and i assume these well-known sorts would enjoy being able to do something now and then without being bothered.
In my new book on the 1976 play THE BELLE OF AMHERST, I write how even in the latter days of his Alzheimer's disease, the play's author, my godfather William Luce, could still recite Emily Dickinson's verse. A thing of beauty is a joy forever.
Professor Krause, you have GOT to let Douglas finish his thoughts. There are so many examples where I became excited to hear Douglas fully articulate an idea or a question and you interrupted. Douglas has this great way of signalling that he's about to sort of bask in an idea for a moment, but you more often than not would prevent him from doing so. One of many examples is when he started to express a concern he has about the certainty of among atheist circles, see 2:13:41 I really hope you see this and other comments and take the constructive criticism to heart. I know it might not be easy for me to accept the criticism (even if I knew it was well intentioned) if I were in this position, but we must. Still greatly appreciate the conversation.
Daniel Schmactenberger points out that most of our most admired polymaths throughout history ( Marcus Aurelius, Newton, the Dalai Lama, etc.) acquired their capacity for wisdom from the tutelage of the best thinkers of their times. Compare that to the plight of a Puerto Rican kid from the inner-city whose teacher got her "education" from a community college in Iowa. THAT is the story of the America we now live in. I believe that the elevated realms form which both of you speak, are oblivious to the paucity of other people's realities.
Interestingly, before even reading the message I was thinking that Murray is very much taking up the mantle of Hitchens, and to see that this wasn't an unfounded idea is heartening. Keep up the good work, the both of you.
To me, this is by far one of the most important podcasts of our times. One thing lost by the waves of feminism is something we never discuss, and that is the loss of knowing ways or perhaps what is called in a broad sense ESP. I was raised with 6 sisters and an intuitive mother, the most important thing we were gifted was the are of listening to silence and hearing with the heart. My family made it clear to never strive for equality with men but that we were already ahead and that one of our societal endeavors was to helplift men up. Interestingly enough,
My goodness, as much as I admire the professor, his incessant rambling made this conversation a chore instead of a joy to listen to. It seemed to be a vehicle for the Professor to mention how many famous friends he has and not a place for Douglas to breathe and talk freely. I love Douglas and was I looking forward to hearing him without being constantly interrupted.
Douglas is fantastic. Eloquent and wise way beyond his years. I found him in an Intelligence Squared debate about religion, years ago, and got hooked not only by his fluent and clear articulation of ideas, but also by the content of his sharp analyses - he has always something interesting and insightful to say. Your choice of guests has been really great, lately, Lawrence. Thank you for that. If I may, I'll reiterate a suggesstion that I made before: I would love to hear you having a conversation with James Lindsay (his latest book, _The Marxification of Education,_ touches on a really important subject). Since you're acquainted with Peter Boghossian, I suppose this wouldn't be too far-fetched.
@@eyeswideopenpod That's nice. Lindsay was, along with Helen Pluckrose, Boghossian's partner in the so called "grievance studies affair." If you haven't heard about it, it is worth investigating a bit.
*The far-right has revived Marxism in a way that those of us who are Marxist could only ever dream of. It's such a wonderful, staggeringly-satisfying irony right-wing scumbags aren't aware of.*
There's probably a name for it amongst psychologists but I love that feeling when I talk to people in other areas of study and I see similar patterns in thinking with totally different topics. I find that, in itself, fascinating and wonder which other patterns might be useful to me.
As a former "humanities person", I recently took a job that applies my skills in the scientific field. There is nothing more fulfilling than learning from the opposite side of the spectrum. I spent so many years thinking that science is something that I'm just 'too dumb for' Very well put
Tough podcast to listen to, Laurence constantly steps all over his guests and he's always trying to do the most talking. It's an irritating mannerism that shows a lack of social skill and it absolutely kills conversations. It's the reason I unsubbed from this podcast. Constantly interrupting and trying to get your two cents in shows a lack of grace. Douglas Murray is always a joy to listen to, truly a keen intellectual.
Have to confess that I could never get into poetry. Somehow it doesn't gel with me. But I do have a great love of classical music, so I have committed a lot of that to memory instead. Can't think of anyone else who can whistle Grieg's Piano Concerto! I suppose it is my substitute for poetry.
This reminds me of my favorite English teacher in college; whether it was poetry or prose, he always had us read the piece before class, and then in class he would just ask you what you thought it was about etc, and as long as you could justify your opinion he never said you were wrong in your interpretation. I still go back and read some of the papers I wrote for his class
Two men whom I greatly respect. Only recently found Murray, but it became clear to me almost immediately that I would add him to my list of individuals whose incite I greatly admire.
I'm sorry to say this, but as a host you're supposed to let your guests speak much more than you. Let them finish their thoughts/sentences for chrissakes. Douglas is a terribly interesting man and I always watch his interviews, but this one was a bit difficult to get through.
This interview was SO frustrating to watch. How could Lawrence Krauss be granted an audience with DOUGLAS EFFING MURRAY for THREE HOURS (the longest interview with Douglas that I have ever seen!), but spend 90% of that time interrupting his guest, shamelessly name-dropping and talking non-stop about himself with irrelevant personal anecdotes? Douglas appeared visibly irritated and at times, bored by Lawrence throughout this interview, as was I.
I would pay real money out of my all too modest purse for a recording of Douglas Murray reading all of Shakespeare’s sonnets, or even a collection of the dozen or so he loves most (if there are such).
Got into poetry late. When 33 in a yr long class on it I took. But it opened my mind & spirit to such beauty had never fathomed. Later took that love home with me, & also put to memory many wonderful poems.
The idea that a child can not be socialized outside of a school is ludicrous. Actually, I did homeschool our three children primarily to avoid their being socialized by a completely unknown and undifferentiated classroom society (where parental, sibling, and cultural influences are dumped). Homeschooling is the best of educations, enhanced certainly by determined extracurricular interaction such as scouts, sports, religion, neighborhood friends. It could easily be argued that public & parochial school society has been the downfall of our culture. One nasty, deranged, or overexposed child can inflict lifelong negative issues for people.
Thank you Mr.Murray! Wow I didn't know you write poems..❤ We should listen mainly your voice because your brillant mind proposing solutions to preserv the Western Civilization..I wish your books were translated in many lenguages..you should be Prime Minister and a lider of the Wester world.
lol, i went to a comprehensive, leaving at 16 in 1970, it was brand new and we had brand new uniforms and it was assumed by the locals to be "posh", but in fact it was a school that kids who got expelled from other schools got sent to, like a maximum security school. and we had three types of teachers, the unprepared who had breakdowns and quit, the sadists who believed in the cane, despite the fact we had a competition to see who could get caned the most, and the oddballs who actually taught us stuff, had us totally enthralled and needed no canes at all. mr holt, and actual artist and sculptor, shaped my entire life, the art room was a civics class, and he was gone before i could revisit and tell him what an amazing life i've had thanks to him and my envy of his abilities at art. i went on to st martin's school of art, chelsea school of art, london college of printing and eventually did graphics at kingston poly in 1981, and now after a career in tv, commercials and movies i'm doing sculpture (occasionally) at morley college at 69. a crappy, unruly state school education isn't a bad thing.
I think it depends on the student to take whatever education they get and improve on it or let it ruin them. Your teacher, Mr. Holt would have loved to know that he made an impact. As a former teacher, the idea that I might have made an impact on ONE child would mean that I did the right thing and it would feel amazing. Good for you for taking what you were given and improving your skills.
Easy for you to say! I was far more travelled during schooling. I was expelled twice every year until I was 15 when there were no other remaining schools to attend, so I missed out on my exams despite being the top of all my classes. I learnt next to nothing useful from ALL those institutions and all that time, all it did was poison my heart against the rich and the smart-arsed. I was no better off than illiterates, in some ways worse. That was until I attended private schooling. That was the sole reason I didn't become a terrible criminal, despite being told repeatedly (and shown) that I would amount to a hill of beans during state education. The teachers are worthless in the main, it's not the rest of the school it is the actual choice of tutors they offer. They're probably far less able than an average person in so many ways, it is amazing people trusted their children with these sorts. I could spot a child rapist a fuckin mile away by the age of 10 and guess where I found most of them? State education. It's fucking atrocious. Fact, unless you are in that lucky few it ruins most kids.
Both of you a great. I love that you can have differnt opinions and that's fine. It's refreshing. Two great minds having a great chat. Lawrence has an enthusiastic childlike curiosity. Douglas is one of the greatest thinkers of our time. I have never seen him lose a debate.
2:11:30 Douglas raises the idea we are failing to investigate certain areas and this is responsible for stagnation. This reminded me of the Herman Hesse novel The Glass Bead Game. The hero of the book describes a society where gifted young people are shipped off to an esoteric education that is beyond the understanding of broader society. The book embraces the idea of a Western style of Bhuddist monastary/university.
