Both are good. 1 thing to remember. Dpm gets better with age as it fades and becomes more muted. Mtp will become too light over time in my experience. Thanks for the video
There both unique in their own way. As you rightly said it depends on the time of year aswell as the location and weather. Great video. Many thanks for sharing 👍
New subscriber here from Canada. I really enjoy the down to earth presentations and videos I have seen. From the sources I read and listened to, DPM ,as with the US M81, was intended to be effective at a longer range >50m. When the cold war got hot and all the USSR's tanks were to be rolling through the Fulda gap and the wider battlefields. I will say this, I am no expert, I am just 'parroting' information from others. From my observations as a hunter, DPM and US M81 seem to work really well for ungulate eyes. I used MTP rain gear in late fall moose hunting and the animals seem to spot me near about 75m but seem to have more difficulty with the DPM or M81 patterns. With older pattern we have got them in a lot closer than that (with wind in our favour). Either way it's close enough for an easy shot. When just out scouting, its interesting to see the effectiveness limits on different animals (prey vs predators) of the many different patterns. Sorry for the long ramble. Love the content seen so far will be checking out the rest.
Welcome along. For the UK it was all about the "threat" of the moment. DPM was cold war, threat from the east so made for the dense pine forest of northern Europe. MTP was more about the deserts of the middle east while still working in woodland. Both are good patterns but for different areas.
Absolutely agree we must consider terrain for camouflage effectiveness. I live and hunt in North British Columbia and it is very similar to the pine forests of northern Europe so DPM is excellent. It edges M81 and everything seems better than the US Army's former UCP. Holy moose turds that stuff is awful (unless dyed green as seen on brent0331) @@jim-bob-outdoors
Ay up. When I did a similar test I thought DPM was better from further distances and MTP better at closer quarters. I also accidentally noticed that after filming both at night under torchlight, MTP shows up considerably more than DPM when viewing the video. Interestingly a retired soldier told me he hated the newer MTP as it showed up considerably more through a night vision camera than DPM did. For me DPM is still the winner.
I am still a big DPM fan. I now tend to use the DPM most, but switch to MTP in the winter because I find it works well in the bare woodland. Thanks for watching.
Another fantastic video Allan. I am a big fan of DPM. I think the fact that it has been around for a long time and adopted by many militaries, is proof of its effectiveness. I think MTP may have been a response to enviroments that are semi desert, but still have some green vegitation around. I would love to see how Auscam and Swedish M90 perform in a UK woodland setting.
The is so many great camos, I could do these videos for ever! 😁 I have used the M70 variant in a camo test and that was way better than expected. Regards JB.
Yes David you are right. The DPM was a cold war camo, designed with conflict in Northern Europe in mind. The desert version was quite decent though, but I guess like most things they were looking to cut costs and produce just the one colour. Regards JB.
I think that's the best comparison I seen to date, well done mate, that was very helpful so I guess I am for DPM still up her in dark green Scotland. Atb. Harry
Yes I would imagine that DPM would be the one up there. Makes sense really as the DPM was designed for Northern Europe and the MTP design was done with one eye on the Middle East. 👍
Stick to flecktarn in dark woods, especially Scottish conifer woods. A mixture of standard flecktarn and arid flecktarn in conifer woodland is brilliant.
That surprised me there, Jim, I have to say. When I saw what you were going to compare with one another I genuinely thought that the MTP would be completely out-classed by the DPM, but that wasn't the case at all. As you said, they're both very good camos, cheers for the video.
I love DPM, but MTP blends in so much better especially in this pre-last location. good material set aside for special moments, thanks for the entertainment. Hope you enjoy your holiday 🌲
The difference is, the tone of colours used on the camouflage, the DPM is darker than MTP and therefore is brilliant in shaded woodland areas, however, it does not blend well with the environment when it is in direct sunlight, MTP is a bright camouflage, a modern print, allowing it to blend in to the environment in direct sunlight and thanks to modern printing, it can blend just as good as DPM in shaded areas, people always seem to get offended when I say I prefer MTP over DPM, but MTP has clear advantages over DPM, not to mention it can be used effectively in almost every environment.
Totally agree. If I could have just one it would be MTP. To be fair its not my favourite looking one, but it is the one that works in more places. Thankyou for your comment. JB.
A few days ago I was in the forest for three days doing bushcraft. In Germany, at an altitude of 600m above sea level. There are hardly any conifers in this area and the deciduous trees (is this the correct English term?) had no leaves, buds or shoots. So in terms of vegetation it was still winter. Apart from moss, everything was in shades of brown and grey. I accidentally had a tarp in pencott greenzone with me, which was of course completely out of place given the situation described. I think the MTP would have been a great fit in this environment. So if the British Army were to fight in Germany against e.g. the Russian Army at some point, MTP would definitely not be a bad idea. At least in the winter season.
I’ve had completely the opposite experience in Scotland (not trying to say your experience is wrong). In my area there are lots of conifer plantations, and MTP really stands out because it’s so bright. Darker browns and some greens blend in much better.
@@TheQuantumPotato I bought the HMTC Basha from Highlander Forces, designed in Britain. Maybe it's a good camouflage in winter. It has brown and khaki tones instead of green. Or do you have another recommendation for the requirements described?
It seems in a couple of the MTP scenarios there was a change in lighting compared to the DPM. As others have mentioned, the DPM 95 pattern is too dark. The Dutch version of DPM is better.
Yep I cant control the sun. 😁 The thing to remember is the DPM was for the Cold War and the dark forests of northern Europe. MTP the focus had shifted to the middle east. Both work well, but the is no perfect camo.
@@jim-bob-outdoors Yes. I’d like to see a pebble design Camo for pebbled beaches. Just a personal choice, for fishing Chesil beach in Dorset. The wife can’t find me, then! 🤣🇬🇧
I've got both and one is too light and one is too dark so I have a mid tone camouflage net one side with green leaves and the other with yellow. The jackets are good for general mooching about but if I want to be more serious the net works well over the top of both. By the way this is the best comparison of the two camos on RU-vid so many thanks and keep up the good work.
Sorry, very poor test. 2nd test, obviously you would hide in full sun in front of a matching tree, not! Perhaps hiding behind the tree, or a bit to the side, so you are set against the darker, shade background then dpm would win. This would be valid if all wars were fought in bright sunshine then! How about a normal day test. It might have been good if the boffins that came up with mtp did this comparison then maybe something between the two and with a reduced pattern size than dpm and with blurred colour transitions rather than hard edges might have been developed. As we know the MOD is a brilliant buyer of military equipment, chieftain engines, SA80, soft sided Land rover for afghan, the list goes on.....
One's darker with more green and the other is lighter with more brown. Both are great depending on situation. A blend of the two for an all round camouflage would be great. I'm not in the military, just trying to outwit a chub etc.. Happy to wear either for fishing and other outdoor pursuits :-)
Great video, my own experience was with DPM and I learned that keeping low and in shadows was my best mate. In all honesty today as Thermal kit is getting cheaper and more widespread which camouflage is used only differentiates the side on which the wearer is batting for. Shape shine shadow sudden movement sound and smell was the old mantra, it needs revising today, to stay at home as they can find you if they want you..
@@jim-bob-outdoors I have pictures of my mates and blokes I served with in the 80’s and 90’s, in the UK, Germany and Canada, Cyprus it worked well for us, but then again if I was asked to choose a weapon to go to war with I’d probably want the SLR L1A1. I moaned at the gravy train, jobs for old boys within the MOD & ROF., all this buying off the shelf kit as required and no longer having the means to produce what our armed forces need to function was and still is the biggest mistake our country ever made. Signed A grumpy old ex squaddie.
Just git an Mtp smock and lining it with Dpm. Started out as extra pockets plan then I realised I have enough to make the whole thing reversible :-D ...yay....ANOTHER project involving sewing... 😂
I agree with you no camo is perfect. If you want to remain unseen and unnoticed you can't rely 100% on a camo pattern; people were hunting successfully for thousands of years before DPM came on the scene.
I think the change was practical but it is hard to falt the Uk or US woodland patterns. I remember watching the Falklands war and seeing soliders and marines highly profiled in the tundra, that is until Tommy went prone and absolutely disappeared! You simply could not have that effect with a multicam pattern and tone.
Great video. There is so little to choose between the two (although I think well washed DPM has the edge) I think we should ask just what the motive was to change it all, and incur all that expense. I wonder how much this refit cost in total, including the research.
Change of threat location and with the DPM the had to make a separate desert uniform. MTP works well in both locations, so I guess in the long run it will work out cheaper in the end.
Good test. I must admit, when out and about in the countryside I wear MTP, however I have either a DPM jacket or DPM waterproofs in my backpack as the terrain and surroundings change from open land to woodland.
I love MTP, all my kits in it , I find it blends in so well in woodland in the autumn winter and early spring, it only in the summer that it struggles a little bit , all in all a great camo for UK country side, just my opinion like
@@jim-bob-outdoors A great observation. I shot a video once were I was wearing my RealTree APG jacket, and I jokingly lied down on a bed of red and brown autumnal leaves to see how comfy it was and I quite literally disappeared (my toso anyway) even though the leaves didn't match the APG pattern at all, it's as if the brain just couldn't comprehend what was in front of it's eyes.
Both pretty good. Like you said JB, all down to the location, time of day, and year. My old Dutch hooped bivi was DPM I think and disappeared well in woods.
There are a lot of browns in the British woodland, which is why the MTP did better than expected, do the same test when it is wet and cloudy, also do against green fields and up the hills. Biggest advantage of DPM is price and witht he War in Ukraine, all the MTP is getting shipped there!
@@jim-bob-outdoors Local shop to me, has made his profit for this year, people literally came in and bought every bit of mtp to ship to Ukraine, now is having troubles sourcing kit, and prices of all genuine kit going up a lot
I have a pair of old Dpm rockets that are so faded they match their mtp molle beltmates pretty well :-D I think you should redo this with new and faded versions as well of both patterns :-D
I think MTP pips it... but I do still love DPM... although I've still not found the perfect DPM jacket... as they are so old now, I must visit more surplus shops, still hankering after some DPM trousers for winter. Nice viddy Scout 👍
Decent and fair comparison, yet dpm for me, always! Dutch dpm probably beats both but when washed a few times... British dpm survives! Brand called arktis got it right
Italian vegetato camo is amazing. They have one with slightly brighter greens and one with more tan. Both are crazy good camo. Makes cadpat, marpat and m90 camo look terrible. German flecktarn is still really good for dark spruce Forrest in a german and Western Canada. Italian vegetato easily wins in poplar and most woodland environments
I use DPM and M90 in the summer and M90 jacket and MTP trousers in spring and autumn. M90/DPM Jackets (with added snow camo jacket when needed) and snow camo trousers in winter.
@@jim-bob-outdoors There are only two sizes in the British Army... Too big or too small 🤣. Check out Swedish M90 if you haven't already done so. The sizing is really good, even the light/lätt is as thick as my MTP windproof smock. On eBay, German sellers sell it cheaper than here in Sweden about 60 quid for a lätt jacket and trousers. The thicker fältjacka and byxor / jacket and trousers are a bit dearer but they gave lining, impregnated against water and fire. Great video, mate. Liked and subscribed.
@@jfilm7466 Thanks for the sub mate. 👍 I am ok with the British sizes because I am quite an average size. 180cm tall and around 80kg. I do have some kit from Europe. One of my personal favourites is the old Swiss M70 jacket. I have changed the colour a bit with dye, to fit my local woodland though. 😁
The DPM disappears on the title card. A compromise or failure in camouflage effectiveness is one of the ways that a military force can be exposed to high levels of hazard.
DPM version 68 was the best camouflage in the British Army and I have no idea why someone replaced it with model 84???? It was the best camouflage ! Everyone today when they say DPM they mean model 84 not the iconic 68 !!!! Just as when they say Challenger they mean 2 and not 1 which was the symbol of the British Army. Politics and business ???
@@jim-bob-outdoors 68 Pattern was changed due to fade out in washing, and it's failure in the Falklands due to being lined and stayed wet!. 85 Was made with pre dyed material so no liner, and dried quicker. 90 Had lots more black and a smaller pattern, better for night manouvers. And less visable to infra red. 95 was ripstop.
Hello JB, JMHO,,, would it be a different outcome if the jackets had some depth i.e. 3D shape to them when worn. On a hanger, they are fairly flat and one dimensional. Forgive me for saying. Now get back out there tomorrow and wear them in the same scenarios 😂👍
Interesting , would of thought maybe dpm in the woods and mtp a bit more universal I.e. desert , beach , heathland . Mtp seems to do the job in the woods well to . I suppose the " multi-terrain in the name is a bit of a clue . Atb JB 👍
I wonder, if you had a khaki tarp and painted it in “dazzle camouflage” (as seen on world war battleships), would it work too? Ah, maybe it’s only good at sea!
I got out just before MTP came in so I have old DPM and dessie kit. I thought the MTP was just a cost saving exercise to avoid giving everyone 2 sets of combats like in the old days but your test suggests it was a good idea.
It was brought in due to the fact little to no fighting was really going on in the deserty parts of afghanistan, instead it was all going on in the green zone with irrigated farmland and vegitation. Also the fact theres not much woodland in britain anymore. DPM would be a dream in an english wood or a german forest as was intended for it originally but not versatile enough. The problem with these videos is often that they only test in woodland in ideal conditions.
@@PeteDevlinootnaboot they did loads of tests in Afghanistan between desert DPM and MTP and MTP blew the DPM out of the park, no contest. It also beat normal DPM which is only really useful in dark woodlands, which people for some reason think is where all wars are fought-they arnt.
I heard it was because patrols in helmand were moving in and out of the green zone, and sticking out against the lush green in desert combats. On the same patrol they could move back out into the desert or the light dusty fields. Might be wrong but that's what I heard.
Kinda odd how every country is going to some version of multicam. Even ireland I hear. The next major wars will as always be in europe, but also SE asia. Why cant they just have seperate uniforms for different environments? Like the old days. Here in the US the amount of money wasted on uniforms and changes over the past 20+ years is insane. Just the army alone is insane in uniform changes. I miss the days when everyone just used M81 and called it good. Im NOT a fan of OCP aka multicam /scorpion . I hear even Germany might switch their flecktarn, and canada might stop with their cadpat
@@jim-bob-outdoors I'm glad I was able to finally pick up a like new barely used DPM smock yesterday. Just need the rest of the kit. Trying to find the webbing in the states is ridiculous. Plus I want it all in basically like new condition. Along with the ruck, goretex, etc. I typically mix m81, flecktarn, and dpm. Works great here in VT. I'm also a collector though, and try and get full sets if I can. I'm in a "group" so I like finding what works the best when I'm doing "group" things.
Iirc the uniforms are made with IRR compliant fabrics and dyes so if you’re concerned about shining under a IR spotlight I think you’re good to go if not much optical brighteners have been used while washing them
Very good. There is no perfect camo. Troops in the British Army have too much faith (almost blind faith) in mtp. It is far far too light at night. Mtp does however blend better in open ground agai St pale backgrounds like moorland.
I'm trying to find someone who is colour blind testing different camo patterns. I heard that they can spot camo much better than non colour blind people.
Interesting thought. I have seen a video on the subject, not testing as such though. Not sure if he mentions it in the video, but he is colour blind. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-k0CKIxa4Bk0.htmlsi=rqrwa65V8Q0gzJ5i
@@twsbibanghorn7343I’m diagnosed with Protanopia and I can confirm that I’m able to very easily highlight people wearing certain camos when hidden over others however if it’s in a darker environment then I struggle.
