WTF kind of death was that? If this were Origins you would have slit his throat and blood would have gone everywhere and all over your character's face!
@@frostkilling that confuses the everliving hell out of me. We’re supposed to believe that a literal spirit of justice would not only not step in, but approve? I don’t like criticizing writers on their work, but it’s so out of character I can’t stand it. Anders stepping in to help someone he hates would have made for a much better story, too. It would have drastically changed their dynamic. Showing that he supports justice for all would make the decision to kill Anders more impactful. Haha even after all these years I’m still complaining
@@helluvawren6419 well that's the thing with Anders, the spirit of justice is supposedly no more because it got corrupted by his hatred when he entered him, turning into Vengeance. I agree that it doesn't make sense for Justice to let Fenris be taken away, but it does for Vengeance, because Anders hates Fenris.
@Helluva Wren You're right, but I think at that point Justice's purpose had already been tainted, merging their consciousness together was never natural.
Varric was right. At the end of the game I was really sick of mages and templars, too. I really hated to choose any side, and I just thought that maybe the best option would have been to let the qunari take over the city, and let them burn everything they wanted. Also I loved Justice character in awakening, I hate that they made him so demon-like.
He turned demon-like because he was affected by Anders' anger and bad experiences as a mage. He mentioned it multiple times, that he had too much anger, and Justice thought he could overcome it but changed him instead. And frankly after a while of walking around with Justice in Awakening, he becomes a bit annoying too. I understand him, but constantly scolding Nate and Velanna about their past actions are a bit annoying. Especially since I understand Nate completely and he at least is trying to do better.
If you listen to the conversations between Anders and Justice in awakening, Justice actually tells Anders that it's shameful he doesn't try to stand up for other mages while he walks around free, while Anders is just chill with worrying about himself alone. I really think Justice warped Anders into what he is in DA2.
@@kingofaadijay In Awakening Anders was pretty likeable. Rebelios yet funny. Meeting him and joining ritual one of the best scenes. And they turnih him into complete moron in DA2
Even though Dragonage has awesome sound for the most part, there's bits in cutscenes that annoy me so. The stabbing of Anders is almost soundless, him falling to the ground is soundless, he doesn't even make a sound when he got stabbed! And then there's the hillariously bad sound during the fight between Aveline & Hawke if you annoy her extremely. What the hell Bioware, are impact sounds too expensive? xD
I believe that for this particular scene because it was supposed to be so emotionally charged they tried to 'step it up' on their execution. (No pun intended) That's probably also why there's no blood; because even if you hate Anders he was an integral role in the game, that's why they went with the whole dramatic music/ambiance instead of that rusty bloody squirty squirt we're used to. Makes sense to me.
Katie Morrison I understand, for me they don't have to make him spurt out blood out of his entire body or some gruesome shit because that'd just distract from the fact you just killed a companion who fought along side you. But, c'mon, him landing on the ground could've had sound, the stabbing to in my opinion. I get your point but, this "no sound" isnt the solution it just makes it ridicilious. Ridiculius. Ridiculous.... RI-DIC-U I give up.
The Templars seriously need to just go, throw the whole Templar Order out and start over from scratch...heck, throw the whole damn system the Chantry has put in place out and start from scratch...as long as things go on as they are, there are only going to be more and more problems. I agree with the fundamental *idea* behind the current system for the Circle of Magi and so forth, but the execution is absolutely horrible and should thrown out completely and then started over from the ground up.
8elementallords ok then better the qunari system , at last no mage can make a rebellion against the qun, qunari have no mercy, templars are nothing compared to the qunari. In the dragon age universe the mages are too dangerous to bee free, demons, abominations, mankind pride,the veil,the breach, tevinter imperium,slavery, corruption, archedemons and blights,all things created by mages Templarsand the inquisitions as well as the seekers are necessary.
Aren Mek No way in hell. The Qun is literally the *worst* thing in Dragon Age aside from the demons living in the Fade or the Blight/Darkspawn. When you get right down to it, every single thing about it is horrible and oppressive, for *everyone*. Mages have it the worse off under the Qun, but *everyone* is oppressed by it and it is something I would happily destroy just like I would the Templar Order and the whole system put in place by the Chantry. You know, I can honestly say that you are a horrible human being if you ever think oppressing or enslaving fellow sentient beings is at all ok under any circumstance.
8elementallords The execution in Kirkwall is absolutely horrible. But then, everything about Kirkwall is absolutely horrible. XD We've only seen the Circle in Ferelden besides that, and many seemed to actually like it there by comparison - it still wasn't perfect, but throwing that out completely seems like a waste. Better to work on some ah. Improvements? XD
Should have listen to Nathaniel and dump that Justice. "Oh I have no desire but I want justice". Merril was right, there are no differences what so ever between a spirit and a demon: Pride Demon prey on pride; Lust Demon prey on Lust; Justice spirit prey on Justice
Demons are by their very nature selfish, every thing they do, they do it just for themselves. Non demon spirits are able and capable of doing things for others despite of their own well-being (altruism). The beneficial spirit that helped Wynne maintains her life while draining its own strength. A demon would never do such a thing! A demon would just take over by possessing her body and mind! Same goes for Justice. Justice doesn't blow up the chantry in Kirkwall because he thinks that is "fun". He is pursuing a goal that benefits others and not himself(while i dont agree with what he did, its also true that asking the templars nicely would never work. Plus, Andraste`s actions have lead to deaths of many innocents who were caught in the war against the tevinter imperium, yet that doesn't prevent the chantry from revering her as the Maker`s prophet). Add to that the fact that usually demons lie, deceive and trick mortals, and are not very found of keeping their end of the bargains they make. Demons envy mortals, while non demon spirits pity them.
ancientfaith You are correct on those point (beside the fixing the chantry). But you did not see the truth. Spirit (demon or spirit) depend on the emotion they feed on. Those called demon feed on selfish and negative emotion therefore their action are selfish while the others feed on positive emotion, so their action is not. For example: Pride demon looking always looking to rule and control because the Pride emotion always put him above others. Spirit of Justice feed on Justice, he is always seeking to right the injustice no matter the cost to satisfy his need. The emotion control them, they can't go against it nor they understand the consequence. They are the same. The Tervinter Imperium actions were not justify, destroying a whole race were not justify, while the action of Chantry is. Demon are real and 1 weak will mage - no matter the good intention - will lay waste for thousand of people - remember Connor ? Hundred well trained Knight died - So if the Chantry were as cruel as Tervinter Imperium, They would kill every new born mage instantly.
ninjadejedi "1 weak mage - no matter the good intention - will lay waste for thousand of people". That is an exaggeration, because: 1.even in Connor`s case its more like hundreds not thousands. 2 that was possible only because he was in a position of power and it doesn't take magic for those tragedies to happen (far more people ,thousands here indeed, died because of Logain`s betrayal, for ex.). 3.usually when people died because of abominations , their numbers were not bigger that when people died because of bandit, raiders attack or other similar causes. 4. Putting mages in cages doesn't make the world a peaceful place and doesn't solve the problem. On the contrary , they will eventually rebel and cause more destruction through conflicts. 5.Mages represent some sort of a problem, yes, nobody denies that, but the way circles work is not a solution. 6.They need education and made responsible of the fact that magic can be dangerous if used wrong..but that education should not be made in a prison like environment (do you realize that they are basically sentenced to some sort of life prison sentence, despite the fact that many of them do nothing wrong all their life , and only a few fall pray to corruption. What happened to innocent until proven guilty motto?). 7 Dalish clans are living proof that oppressing mages is unnecessary (their keepers are mages).
ancientfaith 1st It's thousand. Connor's case was thousand. The soldier, the villagers, the knights. You're underestimate the population of Red Cliff city and Red cliff castle. They have their own armies contribute to The battle of Ostaga and Denerim. 2nd The number of people that died depend on the number of population. It's like detonate a bomb in a village or a city. You think everyone in the Castle just going to let Connor kill them ? Thousands in there. At least hundreds would think to kill him to save themselves. 3rd It took hundreds of bandit to actually able to attack a castle guarded well trained knights, just attacking, I'm not saying they event able to cause problem. And to kill bandits, they only need 5x the bandits number to solve the problem, not a 30 Templar to kill 1 abomination. And from 1st to 3rd : Those problem can easily be solve through people with good heart and educations. Mages with good heart can still fall prey to demons. Merril: " Every words from the demon pulls my heart toward it ". 4th No, it does not solve the problem, but it's better than killing them. 5th and 6th, education will not work on this case, learning how to use mage does not work. It's about the dream and temptation from the demons. They will trick, lie and offer. How much temptation one can endure till he give in ? Need to save his love one's life ? Need to revenge ? You can't control life or educate it. You have to react to it. And you said it was a prison life ? Most mages in the Ferelden circle consider it's a blessing to live in there. Wynne said herself: "I was home". Even the mages in the Kirkwall do not want to rebel. Betheny and Hawke's mother both stated that she is happier in the circle. Unfortunately, when one of them were proven guilty, hundred to thousand people could die. What do you choose ? Lock up a few thousands mages so millions could live in peace. The Dailish ? You do know that 1 clan only has 1, ONE, Keeper and 1, ONE, apprentice. The whole clans, hundreds Dailish, ready to deal with 1 person. Unlike human or dwarf. Dailish way of live forcing most of them to learn to defend themselves. So you see, it's not working at all. You need a hundreds of soldiers ready to kill their leader. And even the Keeper ready to tranquill Feynriel even though he just fall in to dream
I think killing Anders actually makes for a tragically beautiful story. Hawke has to kill the man he/she loves for the greater good, because she has to see justice done. But then, letting him live if he wants to die is somewhat poetic justice. :/
Damn, i cant play this without killing anders, he killed a holy woman who was neutral in the mage templar fight, no matter if he were a friend or romance my hawkes couldnt let him get a way with that, no matter what side they took. My only problem that cant be fixed is he died thinking himself a martyr, not a murder
I feel bad he killed her since she wasn't exactly a bad person, but what she was allowing was fucking horrible, which was letting the templars tranquil harrowed mages(very illegal and against their teachings) and allowed Meredith to be a tyrant of a knight-commander; she caused harm by remaining neutral or was just toying with the mages, which Cullen notes as a possibility. Granted, Kirkwall had an abundance of fucking blood mages, but Anders made a point. The templars pushed them to that point because the mages just wanted to live and retain their ability to feel and dream; but were being threatened by the Rite of Tranquility. Think back to that one mage in the Fereldan Circle. She hated herself, fully and completely. She looked in the mirror and saw a monster that needed to be fixed/saved, or killed. I don't feel very much remorse. For the most part, the Chantry is cruel, oppressive and wrong. Anders is totally justified by helping the war really spark. Can't wait to see what happens in Inquisition. Hopefully, we can slap the templars/Chantry around.
Naveese Ever play DA:O ? Earl of Red Cliff ? I think it would be very lucky that the mage was not be killed out right. Their ability can attract demon which could cause extreme harm to normal people. Show me how to stop them from being tempted by demon then you have your case. If not, back to the circle.
ninjadejedi Jowan turned to blood magic because he was afraid of being made Tranquil, since he was never called to do his Harrowing even though he was well over the age to do it, and had resided in the Circle 10+ years. He still tries to make amends for the trouble he caused, and is not an inherently bad person. As for Connor, that happened because Loghain manipulated Jowan. Connor was distressed and didn't know himself well enough, and thus summoned a demon. The Circle is necessary, but should only be a temporary thing[and work like an academy would]-- not a life sentence. It's like throwing a kid in prison for being the child of a murderer/rapist/thief, because you fear they'll be like their parent(s). It's ineffective and wrong. Non-maleficars heavily outweigh maleficars, Tevinter being the exception. And Tevinter is only in that state because they can't stop repeating their history and wont abandon their pride and greed.
You do know that Connor summon the Demon to save his father. And that is the whole point of mages. Temptation, even with good intention. Jowan was weak, he could not resist temptation, he though passing the harrowing mean being strong at magic, and the 1st Enchanter knew this, that is why they did not call him. They want him to have more resolve. Yet he fall in temptation of power. They only need to stay in the circle until they passed the Harrowing, after that with the permission of 1st Enchanter - not Knight commander - they could travel. However, they need to link to the circle because : passing the Harrowing does not mean they wont attract anymore demon, It just mean that at this point, they have the resolve to resist that temptation. Temptation is not only pride or greed, it can be love, good will, sacrifice. Connor want to save his father, that is good will. Another mage will want to save his/her love one. Another want to kill the bandit. etc.... . That is why they have to be in the circle.
yeathatswhatimeant Well look at it like this. He tricked the woman he loved into helping him commit one of the most atrocious terrorist acts in Thedas' history, killed so many innocents, started a war that went on for years and has now ruined Hawke's life by forcing her to be in a situation which destroys everything she's worked so hard for, because he wanted to "die fighting". I don't think anything needed to be said. Or maybe words just werent' enough.
yeathatswhatimeant Well look at it like this. He tricked the woman he loved into helping him commit one of the most atrocious terrorist acts in Thedas' history, killed so many innocents, started a war that went on for years and has now ruined Hawke's life by forcing her to be in a situation which destroys everything she's worked so hard for, because he wanted to "die fighting". I don't think anything needed to be said. Or maybe words just werent' enough.
Finbar Brolly Yes, he's a terrorist and I suppose killing him is justice to all the people who lost thier lives. But Hawke and Anders were in love for years.. does that not count for anything? Just stab him in the back and be done? I think Bioware should have made this scene more emotional if Anders was Hawke's LI. Personally, I didn't kill him. I know it's injustice to let him go free but I keep blaming the spirit Justice/Vengance for this. Maybe there is still some way to split Anders/Justice from each other. */shrugs*
I was so relieved when he finally bit the dust. Until I remembered he was the only fooken healer in the game and I had to finish the fight AND play through the DLCs.
He didnt. What most of ya blood thirsty pricks dont realize - is that you only kill a human here, the only part that felt guilt and could restrain a spirit. Now, instead, its one angry Justice spirit. So much better.
Just wait. Anders will rise from the dead with some 2-cent excuse in Dragon Age 3. He did it in this game after dying in DA:O(Awakening). Damn you Bioware!
Im only teasing. I bash Bioware for the fun of it. There is a lot of humor to be had when it comes to their games. Im actually watching a Parody Dragon Age 2 by BloodMoonEclipse RIGHT now. They are my favorite company and always have been. Bioware, and Obsidian are the best in my opinion. Although I am glad for this Dragon Age Keep ordeal. It erases the need for a DLC that Generates Choices from the other games(think Mass Effect Genesis). So you know they arent about money.
Thats what I was implying in my post...However, I didnt know it was Nathanial who said Anders died....Technically Nathan had a chance to die...maybe they both came back
I would rather he stayed dead permanently than be brought back in DA2 as this emo whiny bitch. Seriously, who the fuck at bioware thought that was a good idea? If you're going to bring someone back at least do so without removing every likeable quality they had.
Aren Mek he was not, but wanted to be one, a martyr for the cause, you think terrorists have a different mindset?... and i played a mage that sided with the templars,if you are 100% rival you can make him atone by killing mages
+kojbo I think the Chantry and Templars are the terroerists coz they used fear to control the mages. The mages are the one that are oppressed. And if you are oppressed of course you need to retaliate.... Sometimes war is the catalyst of peace and change.
I learned not to feel sorry for him. Anders has not really changed from DA:O Awakening. He always had Anger inside of him. HE! was the one that killed Justice with his Anger HIM!!!! ANDERS blew up the chantry making things worse also In DA:O Awakening he tried to corrupt the Mage Warden. My Warden does not really care anyway.
I could never kill him. But not for your reasons mine were for practicality. needed all the allies I could get. And he was a friend, Who needed to help me clean up his DAMN mess.
Yeaaah, I remember hearing tears in Alistair`s voice when I was breaking up with him and such. It could have been SO much more touching and such...After all, he`s being killed by the one he loves...and he doesnt seem to care much XD
This was easily one of the most anti-climactic moments in gaming history to me. I was so hype to kill Anders, and then you stab him in the back? Come on. That's such a cowards way out and it makes killing seem not worth it. So good job with that EAWare...
Personally, I agree with Anders on what he did, as horrible as it seemed. The mages had been prisoners and treated horribly for hundreds of years, and Anders knew the current conflict would end up being resolved and nothing would change. He blew up the chantry to make sure things would change, for better or worse. Sure he murdered hundreds of lives in the chantry, but that's a small sacrifice for preventing thousands and thousands of mages held in captivity for their whole life. Hell, I don't even think he killed that many innocent lives - maybe a few, but most of the people there were all the members of the chantry, and thus direct supporters of the Templar regime. He wasn't "evil", as some call him, he was just tired of the stalemate between Meredith and Orsino. As he said "I removed the chance to compromise, because there can be no compromise." He simply realized there was no point in debating and arguing about the topic if no one would do anything. If you were oppressed your entire life for something you can't control, would you do anything to save the people like you? I know I would. It's like racism, he just wanted to bring it all to a boiling point and start a revolution. I don't believe there were many people in there anyway, and the Grand Cleric doing nothing was just as crooked as supporting the templars in Kirkwall. And you people shouldn't immediately decided that Anders felt no remorse, because from what I've seen, he was overwhelmed with guilt and misery for what he's done. But he knew what had to be done if the mages were to get any chance at freedom. Any chance to end the never-ending cycle of "templars being too brutal and making mages suffer, mages in fear turn to blood magic to escape and become abominations, which makes them seem even more threatening, and makes templars even harsher. And so on and on it goes in circles." And the cycle kept on going, until Anders took a stand. Perhaps you could say he was a little crazy, in which case - if he wasn't, this probably would have never worked. Now his actions has effect on the events in the Inquisition, with the whole Conclave for peace between mages and templars (which obviously wouldn't have worked out in any of their favor), mage and templar war and then all was settled in the end when the new Divine was elected (Cassanda handled it best, imo). And now, years from that incident, a new life had dawned for mages all over Thedas. And whether Hawke open-mindedly kept Anders alive or judgmentally decided against his actions and killed him, there's no denying that Anders played a part in the bettering of mage lives. Anders merged with the spirit of Justice, so all of his intentions, all of his motivations weren't wrong, nor evil, it was plain just. And you can't argue what's right and what's wrong against Justice.
Emilija Einoryte The problem is...you don't kill the supporters of your jailors but the jailors themselves...he may be right but he killed the wrong people
True the Chantry let the templars oppress the mages and it can be an act of violence but it should be violence against those who can defend themselves the Chantry was more of a political enemy...maybe he could've destroied Templar barracks rather than the chantry
The first time I saw he did this, I was so ANGRY that I'd like to avoid him as much as I can but when I start the new game a second time, it become clear that Ander is the man with a heart of a true priest, He didn't seek to enslave people and brainwashed them then simply watch them to suffer from afar like the chantry did but he did come and really *SAVE* the the victim. Despite being an angering abomination-like, he endured it for 6 years to save the mages and the refuge as much as he alone can. He's gone to far this time but Ander deserve his second chance and redemption!
And honestly, if you really think about it, letting him live is probably a much *worse* punishment than actually killing him >_> He considers himself a monster...even before he blew up the Chantry, he's only going to feel worse after doing it. I definitely agree that he should live and have second, third, or even fourth chances.....especially because I agree with just about everything he says about the Chantry and the Templars concerning how they treat mages.
Only reason I kept him alive was because of his healing. People say Fenris is emo, but dear God, Anders had me rolling my eyes SO hard all the time, urgh.
I couldn't kill Anders! Yeah, I think it was damn stupid of him to blow up the Chantry (maybe he should have thought it through a bit more, especially since that's likely to make people even more afraid of mages) but I think he's genuinely a good guy trying to do the right thing... even with Justice/Vengeance mixed up inside him, he may be pretty scary and dangerous and even stupid at times, but if the Templars hadn't pushed the mages into doing blood magic and escaping and stuff and at least loosen up on them a bit, they would be less dangerous anyway and Anders would have never needed to blow up the damn Chantry. I totally disagree with locking up all mages just because there is a chance they could turn into abominations. Yeah, mages should be watched, but Templars should protect mages, not enslave them, and the Circle is NOT a good solution. You wouldn't lock up all people because some of them are murderers, so why lock up all mages because some of them are bad? And the strictness of the Circles (especially in Kirkwall) are what are causing the mages to rebel and use blood magic, because they feel that they have no other choice, especially when some of them are being made Tranquil even though they're not rebelling or using blood magic and have passed their Harrowings (seriously, not cool). Not all Templars are bad - I like Ser Thrask - but assholes like Meredith and Ser Alrik are way too harsh on mages. It's not like I would want a society like Tevinter - mages shouldn't rule non-mages, but non-mages shouldn't rule mages either. I think mages should be watched, and those who DO turn into abominations and use blood magic and stuff should be locked away, but things are being pushed way too far and I agree with most of the things that Anders says throughout the game (although I think he takes things too far sometimes, too).
SunnyDragonfly I hated Ser Alrik... I liked Ser Thrask's approach to being a Templar because he said things like templars are meant to protect mages, whereas Ser Alrik totally abused and misused his power... NOT COOL.
i completely agree. locking them up only makes things much worse. and honestly playing through the whole series the most dangerous people besides dark spawn were the humans. theifs, murderers, etc... everyone in a seance can be dangerous but instead they choose to lock up the mages cause they cant in prison everyone.
They are simply people who are born with weapons attached to their bodies, that are their bodies and minds. If they treated the circle like a school and registry of those weapons they possess, with the Templars as a back up, guardians of the students, only to be used in extreme cases, I bet there would be less cases of demon possession and dissent. Anders was right to be angry, and Justice was right that the situation was unfair, but there can be compromise, there can always be compromise. The lesson of him is that you can't let your anger cloud your judgment, it cannot become vengeance.
The idea of a place to hold mages and teach them is a great idea but imprisoning them only encourages them to escape and use stuff like blood magic when worst comes to worst. In my opinion mages should be able to come and go as they please but be forced to go as a child so they can be taught right from wrong. Like SunnyDragonfly said some people are born with weapons. Mages being one of them. But others can still be crazy killing lunatics who only use their bare hands to kill and do not need to rely on weapons. Hope I made sense :D
Why would you fricking do that? The templars are oppresive, insane, and practically facists. it was high time the mages did their rebellion, and anders totally supported the right cause. Siding with the templars is already kind of pointless, but killing Anders too? A person who wanted freedom and justice? Nah, totally uncool and wicked.
+BigJonas7 Kirkwall was infested with blood mages. You can't blame the templars for doing their job. Even Hawke's mother was brutally killed by a blood mage. That was the templars fault? Nope. The mages should be controlled. Maybe not so harsh but they should. The only thing Anders did was sending alot of mages to their death. Mages can't hope to win against the Chantry and its templars. A freed mage will most likely resort to blood magic.
***** Yea i totally agree. Just notice how when you start the Annulment after some time 3 mages come to beg you for mercy. Cullen said to spare them because a templar is not a butcher but a protector. Meredith ordered to execute them on the spot. And what side did the regular templars took? They disobeyed Meredith's orders and sided with Cullen and so the 3 mages lived. And Meredith is a knight-commander - a more higher rank.
BigJonas7 Anders didn't want peace and justice, he wanted vengeance and war. He destroyed any chance of peace, started a war that killed hundreds of innocents who were neither mage nor templar, and had the arrogance to call it necessary. Meredith was out of line, but Vivienne points it out very well in Inquisition that most Circles were very much peaceful, where templars and mages had friendly relations. Both sides were to blame here, Meredith and her bloodthirsty determination to find maleficar where there are none, and Orsino for aiding and abetting actual maleficar who were insane. Most Templars are pretty chill, if you look at them beyond the failures we see more frequently.
This fucking thing made me so angry! I was all "lalala, frolicking around in this lovely city with a mage on my arm" and then he goes and does THIS!? I was pissed. Still am a little, tbh. Finished the game yesterday. I let him live though. But still. Dumped. So hard. Dipshit.
Thought about replaying the game siding with the Templars, yeah not now. I teared up watching this, and I don't even like Anders much in DA2 (Awakening Anders is my favorite) Can't do it, nope, nuh uh.
Right now I'm so glad my conscience got the better of me. Or it might have been my emotions getting the better of my conscience. Whatever it was, I'm just glad I didn't kill Anders ;-; That face he makes when he dies breaks my heart.
Anders annoyed me in the game to no end so when i read the video heading i was like YEEEES!!! .lol but then as you said above as soon as i saw his face i felt so sorry for him. Dam it all >< lol
Sure it would satisfy the demands of justice (heh, irony, how I love thee) to execute him.....but I think letting him live is ultimately the better thing/right thing to do, because he's absolutely right. The current system the Chantry has going will never work, it will only continue to make things worse....I mean sure it's bad that Anders blew up the Chantry and in the process killed more than a few innocent people, but he's already going to be beating himself up over the horror of his own actions...honestly, I think letting him live is probably the worse punishment in the long run...though I know I certainly don't want to punish Anders as I agree with him on *almost* every issue, plus he was the only one I was interested in romancing as girl Hawke >_>
I had to kill him on my first play-through, I couldn't justify what he did. ;/ It was really sad too because he did have his moments and adored him in Awakening....
thedruidsofkalimdor What's better is, even after that hypocritical dickbiscuit went on about how SHE would hurt someone and then went on to kill thousands of innocent people, she would still help him. Merrill is a truly wonderful person.
I think Anders made sense in DA2 though. The character shift, I mean. I was kind of horrified at it at first, but taking in Justice was pretty Awakening-Anders-appropriate, and after somethign like that, DA2-Anders is about what I'd expect. xD
Aarchione Pretty much. He became a lot more driven and somewhat less focused on constantly charming everything that moved, I think. XD There was definitely a character shift, but like I said, I felt like it made a good deal of sense. He was still Anders, just... different.
BartimaeusTrilogyFan I always wondered why people DESPISED Anders while playing this game. Sure, he saw just about every Templar as a hostile, but that's how he grew up. It's because they treated *him* with such hostility. It was only after I got to this point did I understand where most of the hate comes from, and I can still understand why he did it. He has a point. Something *big* has to be done in order to force change. The way things were at Kirkwall for mages was downright horrible. Being there for 10 or so years only affirmed Anders' opinion on the matter. Yes, it's sad that someone like Elthina died for it, but wonderful people always die. Some die for pathetic reasons, too. At least her death had meaning, and she already lived a long life. Being born a mage and being hated just for the power you have is awful. Something needs to be done to help them control what they need to with the fade, but Anders is right. The circle is NOT the right answer. It's a prison, through and through.
Grand Priest You're listening to his bais a bit too much, I think, though. Not all templers are hostile. Careful, yes - and you can't really blame them when you consider that they are the first defense when a mage falls, they have to be at least somewhat cautious. When the templars become lax or too trusting of the mages, you get circumstances like those in Tevinter. This isn't a black and white situation. I would say the majority of both sides (majority of mages and majority of Templars/those serving the Chantry) are just doing their jobs. But yes, you have power mad, asshat Templars, just like you have egotistical or selfish or power mad mages. But because it isn't black and white, that means there isn't really a perfect solution, either. Unless magic is somehow abolished entirely in some way that doesn't hurt anyone? Eh. And for the record, I think using Kirkwall as any kind of example is completely unfair because that place is insane. XD Kirkwall is a city that seems to bring out the literal worst in peopel through the effects of the thin veil there, it's history, and the darkspawn influence. Anyone entering that city with any chance of going mad or succumbing to temptation seems to fall fairly easily. It's a mess, and I highly doubt Kirkwall could ever be a perfect, happy place. Anders's opinion is highly biased and directly influenced by a spirit of Justice, to be fair. I really don't hink pre-Justice ANdes would have had the drive or obsession to go as far as he did in DA2. Anders himself seemed more... silly before, more focused on selfish goals and a lot more harmless, really. Justice gave Anders a focus for his frustration and a dive to see that focus and the goals it formed for him through. Justice or Vengeance, anyway. Justice no longer feels very just. It is, though, rooted in beliefs, memories and opinions with a lot of merit. And wonderful, good people aren't always murdered. She could have easily died of old age rather than in a fiery explosion of blue-death. XD My end opinion is the Circle is an answer, just that it needs reformation. It has obviously worked well enough for centuries at this point. I'd assume that the more recent uprisings for mages signify something in the Circle has changed - that needs to be reversed for the Circle to continue. I would say for the general population, the Circle is a far better answer than alternatives like the Tevinter Imperium. Mages need control, because they are immensely powerful. But that doesn't mean it has to be a miserable, tortuous process for them, either. I don't think there are any easy answers to the issue, honestly. Gamlen kinda had a point - magic does seem like more of a curse than a blessing. XP
Though I loved this game so much this is the scene that had me cursing. This scene would be passable if written by some talent and maturity. This game with all the dlcs comes to this conclusion??! Dragon age 2 thrilled me with the idea that you could shape your characters personalty and roll play. My hawke had lived with Anders a very long time years!!! I doubt that it would have been this easy for her to kill her lover and friend. I think hawke could kill him if the story had been more elaborate and imaginative. It doesn't ring true no matter what. Too bad this game screams I was better but someone without talent got a hold of me.
Looking back on this, you can say that Anders has achieved his goal in some people's playthroughs. Things get a lot worse before they get better, but they can get better for mages if you play an Inquisitor who tries their best to help the mages instead of throwing them back into Circles and at the mercy of the Templars.
I agree. If you kill Anders, Hawke talks about him like he was batshit or like there was nothing human left, but Anders knew exactly what he was doing. He knew that it took shattering everything to bits to get the mages anywhere except for back in a circle. Not that I agree with his methods, but he was right in the end
@@beep3242 Ah, really? I didn't know that. Well, to be fair, that wasn't even Anders anymore, it was Anders+Justice/Vengeance, but he definitely still had a human side to him and you could tell that he did what he did because he couldn't see any other way to save the mages. My Hawke didn't agree with his methods but he also couldn't kill him, and my Inquisitor fought to free the mages and in the end, made things better for them.
Your femhawke is an assha in this video! :P Personally, in my playthrough as Warrior!Gareth I could never bring myself to backstab him. He was always a squaddie in most of the missions Hawke carried out, and with him being a healer, probably must've saved Hawke and Varric's arse a shitload of times. Also, his statement that slow death is worse than a quick one is correct. Eventually, Meredith was going to crush Orsino or any innocent lad mage's head under her righteous lyrium smoked foot. So a war for reclaimation was necessary to prevent her continued tyranny. Besides, hell with the consequences, Anders was a friend (who just cleared your name in front of Sebastien, Orsino and Meredith) and who backstabs a friend just because of 'justice'?
I romanced Anders but realized he needed to die. But I felt friggin' robbed when my Hawke barely reacted to stabbing the man she loved. Not a shred of remorse. Yeesh.
It made me so mad when i replayed the game after everything happened, and anders came to me to give a judgey comment about how i could do better then fenris... I kept thinkin, Nigga you fudgin blow up the chantry later! Shut up. >:/
Javik Prothy Cmon, he done a terrible thing but at the same time he freed mages and he had done many positive things in the past. He might been mighty pain in the ass with Vengance in him, but you fight alongside your frieds no matter what happens. Loyality to the end.
There was more than just one person in the Chantry, also he made Meredith start off the right of annulment which caused a fight which killed a lot of mages, Templars and likely other innocents as well. Added onto that he also started a war which has likely killed/will kill hundreds of thousands, if not more.
That was cold blooded I know what he did was wrong but don't you think giving himself a second chance is better than just butchering him he's a good man who didn't deserve your hate
There were multiple scenes where peace was about to happen between Meredith and that oldd wizard who's name eludes me. Than that fucker comes along and is basically like "Nope! Peace cant exist! So Im going to blow up the chantry and start a war for the sake of a sequal!". I mean its fitting that he died in 2. I mean....he died in Awakening for christs sake. Its been a long time coming. Granted Id have rathered the Templars piss the fuck off. I mean its BASICALLY the ancient history between Pagans and whatever those christianity-branched religions were. I actually make accounts on Origins just so I can kill Templars without being a bad guy. But I also loathe the idea of having a mentally unstable, demon possessed, ex warden, Mage start a war. I guarentee that wont look good in newspapers
Vane Blackwater Meredith would have gotten worse. She was already getting worse because of that Lyrium sword thing. It was making her crazy. If they did nothing, she would have gone batshit later sure, but she still would have gone batship, none-the-less. She had the power to kill every mage, and she would have.
Two wrongs dont make a right. Just because one person is going insane doesnt mean you can make the matter worse. This was about Anders. He was being selfish. Just because Meredith was going to lose it anyway, and we didnt know it until it happened(neither did Anders), doesnt give Anders the right to do what he did.
I haven't bought Inquisition yet because I don't think my current laptop would be able to play it without massive lag, so I'm currently replaying DA2... only I'm doing the exact opposite of what I always do. I haven't got very far yet, but I can tell this is going to be a rough journey for me; playing a guy with tattoos, being nice to Fenris (who I don't like at all), romancing Fenris, handing Fenris over to the slavers (yep, I don't like him but I'm not an arse), being a major git to everyone other than Fenris, siding with the Qunari, the Chantry and the Templars, and finally, killing Anders (which I've never done because I both feel blowing up the Chantry was the right move, and love the fact that he blew up the freaking Chantry). I watched this because it won't be exactly the same as the scene I'll likely get, and I highly doubt I'd ever be able to kill Anders while in a romance with him. So I got curious. And I'm not sure I regret it or not... killing him was going to be hard anyway - I really grew attached to him over the course of my first playthrough - but now I've seen it happen... Seriously, that final moment where you actually see his face as he dies, and hear Hawke walk away... I think I may cry when I kill him. Better do it late at night when I know no one will barge into my room...
Holy fuck the stupid horn that plays when you stab him is like something out of a low-budget movie from the 60's. The expression too, what the fuck. I didn't remember it being so comic.
I remember at a certain part in the game where Anders said 'Not even the greatest scholar could tell you where I begin and he (Justice) begins.' I can tell you straight out. All that's left of Anders here in dragon age 2 is when he affectionally talks about ser pounce a lots and when he does an actual funny joke. the rest is completely Justice. Justice has taken over Anders pretty much here and has almost sucked him out completely. Think about it. The Warden Commander gave Anders ser pounce a lot when he/she found him in the rain. Why would the wardens then turn around and force him to give the cat up? I'm pretty sure that's just an illusion he gave himself I actually wonder what actually happened to ser pounce a lot but Anders isn't really here in dragon age 2. Justice is.
I wish you could just make him Tranquil, see what his reaction is to that. Mind you, I don't know if that would work when someone is bound to a spirit.
And so ends Murder Knife's appearance in Dragon Age II. It's glad to see him still getting work one-hit killing people. After Origins, I didn't think I'd ever see him again.
I did this, but now that I think about it, a mere knife in the back of an Abomination? I have trouble believing that won't come back to haunt me. Or rather, that Anders won't.
As much as I adored Sebastian, I could not kill Anders. I could never harm him. I'm not entirely sure I agree with blowing up the Chantry, but I understood why he did it, and I would not have thought twice about staying with him forever, psychotic or not. I do miss the old Anders, but I also like the new one. I appreciate the dichotomy, the character development.
@Tamwyn65 Kind of. You could see over the course of DA2 that Meredith kept pushing Orsina to the brink. When the Templars assaulted the Gallows and killed most his students, it probably caused Orsina to snap. However, he fully knew of the blood magic knowledge beforehand, from that serial killer mage who killed Leandra, and Orsina refused to destroy that knowledge so he tacitly endorsed blood magic even while sane.
That's my canon. My Hawke killed her lover. It just fitted her. Funny because when I started the game, the moment you have to kill Aveline's first husband, I decided that Hawke wasn't afraid to kill, knew when it was necessary. It gave such a good parallel in my playthrought!
I found the story of Kirkwall becoming more and more plagued by the conflict between mages and templars far more interesting than the extremely cliched story of Origins. The second game's story is more mature and serius than an evil dragon of doom attacking and being defeated by an unlikely alliance. Origins is better but not because of the Archdemon.
I did this while in romance, despite my Hawke being a mage and siding with the mages. It was a hard choice, but I did not regret it. What Anders did was inexcusable... but he is one of the few interesting things about DA2.
I didn’t kill him. 1.) needed my healer. 2.) I just felt so hard for him. 3.) my mage Hawke kind of agreed with him. It was basically a fuck the Templars run
@@terra_the_nightingale135 Wow, I had forgotten about having left this comment. I actually left it when I was very angry at Anders for hiding things from me (I can feel my anger and how betrayed I felt about him and how mad I was at DA2 in general, wow, lol). After a while, I thought about my choice, played again and undid it. Anders is actually my favorite character.
@@terra_the_nightingale135 Hahaha, yes, I kinda went from WOW, I HATE ANDERS AND THIS HORRIBLE GAME to replaying it, looking for good Hawke/Anders fics, etc. LOL. I'm not sure how it happened but I think one tipping point was playing the Legacy and Mark of the Assassin DLCs, cos they reminded me of how much I loved Anders and cured my bitterness about feeling "betrayed", hahaha. Still, that first comment I left is so extra... probably left it the same day I finished playng DA2 for the 1st time, when I was FUMING, lol
Len Y it’s okay we all have our moments lol. I’m still hurt over Trespasser and am doing a Dragon Age marathon where I’m playing all 3 games, and am still preparing myself to feel the hurt Solas gives me. But then I usually make myself feel better with Alistair or Cullen
@GrandInquisitorOfGR That one knife is known in the fandom as the Murder Knife for a reason, y'know! Both games, if someone gets to die without using your weapons/magic, it's Murder Knife time. I swear, the last Old God will be revealed to have hidden himself in that thing, gathering power from the blood and souls of its victims...