Dragon Ball Super's Latest Villain Has Failed. Here's Why. 

Dragon Ball Super

I like Gas' transformation from one liner grunt to someone with a personality. As someone who loves techniques that create stuff (like Gray's Ice Make or Green Lanturn Rings), i like his abilities especially the cubes. They're like a callback to Hearts' cubes. Also like how he ties in to Goku having fought his father Bardock in the past. Although wasn't really a fan of his latest depiction in the recent chapter 82 (the bathroom jokes). Also not looking forward to another flashback sequence. All in all, he's not the greatest antagonist but is interesting to say the least, in my opinion

@S92 I mean it takes place 7 years after Majin buu’s defeat, plus two years from bog and res f together, and the universe 6 vs 7 tournament, and goku black saga, and the tournament of power and Broly (you can take the goku balck saga one away since it was during that saga but it was a filler episode they used the dragon balls) so.. we are way past the main z end of z timeline now 🤔

Thank you, Brad! One is glad to be of service.

I totally agree, and that’s why I want to see a good climactic ending to Elec.

Jiren is very dynamic and nuanced, it just wasn’t presented well (info dumps) but if you rewatch the TOP knowing everything about him, it makes quite a few scenes a lot better.

Gas isn't

What does nuanced mean? I see it used a lot but still don’t understand it lol

@@isaac-77 it means deeper but has unnoticeable undertones that distinguish it

Also by the way no dragon ball character are nuanced

Does that make them better or worse as a team of characters?

@@Bezaliel13 Honestly, it's the same problem with the Ginyu Force. They work as a team because of the character dynamics they create and play off of each other very well, but if you started looking at Ginyu as individuals, they fall apart and are honestly crap villains. The Heetas, as a group, work because they have a good dynamic and play off of each other very well. Especially Oil and Macki in their comedy scenes. But if you tried to bring in an isolation booth and figured out what makes them tick individually, they fall apart.

@@Trunks1stApprentice But does it make sense to judge them without the group dynamics they excel in? Sounds unfair criticizing them for not being exactly what they are not. Let us hypothetically "flip" it. What if the *team* was composed of charatcers that each work in a vacuum, but had no dynamics within the group? I would say that should be worse by having the team aspect be pointless.

@@Bezaliel13 I think it makes sense and is entirely fair, considering how they're being used in the story. If you're going to use the characters in multiple configurations, ANY configuration, then they need to be strong enough characters to carry those configurations. Otherwise, don't bother. Play with their strengths, or don't play at all. If the Ginyu Force insist on fighting the Dragon Team in one-on-one battles, then each Ginyu better be interesting enough to carry the story for however long they're going solo. Guldo is a waste of space, Recoome is a meathead, Butta and Jeice don't have personalities, and Ginyu is your standard arrogant mini-boss. They're fun when they're together and doing their Sentai bit. But if they're going to split up into solo matches or just spend any length of time alone, they need to have the personality for it. And they really don't. If the Heetas are putting all of their eggs into their super strong brother Gas being able to solo all three challengers, then super strong brother Gas better have a strong enough personality that the audience can enjoy him during this time where he gets more spotlight than his family. Elec is still suitably suave and slimy in every panel he's in, so he has that going for him. It also helps that he's rarely alone and can always play off other characters. And Oil and Macki were designed to be a double act, so they're always paired together. But besides "oh, Gas, our dear brother, you're so strong. Kick all of their asses" when he's with his family, Gas doesn't have any personality. He's just copying the strong, silent, stoic mold that we're so sick of by now, and it leads to ridiculously predictable situations. And if he's our main antagonist that we're expecting Goku to throw down with, he'd better be able to handle one-on-one combat without his family there for banter. And I don't think he can handle it.

@@Trunks1stApprentice But the "configuration" you are criticizing is in lone characters, and I also cannot see this angle on varied team configurations as a criticism against "team dynamics focused" characters, for writing focused on team dynamics should be better with handling different team configurations because of _team dynamics being the main focus in writing the characters._ This next paragraph seems to conflate character writing with character... abilities. I am not sure how much I can say about character traits being separate from character writing beyond pointing out the former is in *fight choreography.* I feel like wording really matters when talking about the character writing of fictional characters. Your last paragraph had a fair point on Gas being flat, but undermines itself by pointing out that he has his family to balance his character out, especially by complaining about the strong silent type. Seriously, his family is the "refreshing change of pace" with Gas, being information brokers instead of mighty invaders, that worked together to buff their muscle into the ultimate. As a counterpoint, while Gas is busy fighting, and his siblings are cheering for him, Elec is free to be up to something, *unlike most DB villains.* Elec: "Mwuhaha, while you were busy and distracted, I did a thing!"

He's OK! He's definitely improving and showing glimmers of endearment...but when we look back in a few years, it'll be hard to recall him without some thinking time.

@@MasakoX Fair enough. As with many villains there's always that potential for them to be significant mainstays but knowing Toriyama they're more likely to fall into obscurity. Hopefully this arc starts bucking this trend (returning to the Galactic prison was a pleasant surprise).

@@MasakoX How ironic. Gas is the only one of the Heeters that I paid any significant attention to, as a whole, all of them are one-dimensional in their ambitions and attitudes, except for Gas, who has been showing more of himself as time passes, as well as narration pointing more at him than, say, Elec. Gas' loyalty to Elec may not be subject to change unless for some reason, he loses Elec. He doesn't seem to show the same degree of care toward or for Oil and Maki, so he clearly has a definition for "who's the boss of this outfit", and if either of them tried to take charge, they'd find themselves more at Gas' mercy than him at theirs. The only thing that saves those two for now is they're actually aware of this. I'm still going to give the Granolah arc of Super a look over, because all I can do is wait and see what comes next. As far as DB villains, yes, Gas is actually kind of weak (rimshot), but that's because he started out as a shallow character and we're gradually seeing more of him as the fight goes on. Who knows? We might get surprised.

Eh; Granolah is given a generic backstory, nothing interesting.

@@soundrogue4472 it’s pretty interesting for db

@@enadasvermillion9252 its as interesting as buruto or Asta from Black Clover.

@@soundrogue4472 boruto isn’t interesting at all its a literal copy and paste of cell saga

@@fatdurk7934 Yea; that's my point. It's an insult; and no it's not a copy and paste of the cell saga; that's an insult to the cell saga.

Oh true. However it would be cool for a compelling and memorable villain to be there too.

@@MasakoX Yeah that would make the saga alot better.

Heroes need a good antagonist to fight; otherwise we get SAO quality of a show writing wise.

@@soundrogue4472 That's still not true 💀💀

@@Namato360 Hold up; are you telling me you'd like Dragon Ball Z if we got poorly written villain's? Really? You'd want characters like Piccolo, and Vegeta to be written so bad they look pathetic? Would you rather have; A. a threatening villain, one that gives the hero a run for his money or B. a weak villain asking to have his butt handed to him? According to your logic a skinny weak guy is just as good of a villain as a big buff dude who provides an interesting fight? If your logic was true then you'd be watching TTG, and not DB series then!

Jiren, broly, moro, and granola all look the same to u? Zamasu and goku black looks the same to them??? They are all unique designs.

@@fatdurk7934 I mentioned the ones that I felt look similar

Frieza again probably

Also the whole wish to be the strongest in the universe being a easy wish to make makes most other threats mute

@@saiyanscaris6530 But there's been no set up to it. He's not appeared, or shown to pose a threat in any way. Also, he's been done twice. Once was enough. Namek was and still is the best saga in my opinion. Bringing him back and reusing him as a villain has only devalued him as a character.

@@EndoScorpion has still alive though and won't change his ways. The heaters also follow frieza orders

Have to point out Gas wished to be the strongest mortal in the universe, but Jiren is in Universe 11.

​@@Bezaliel13 True. I always did like how Jiren became that strong on his own without the aid of divine beings, unlike Goku. Gas, on the other hand, just copied what Granolah had already had done.

@@FoxsDumbSeriesMaker Yeah, I also appreciate that Jiren just trained to be strong without any gimmicks, like being a mutant or Masako's suggestion of a hidden power that he feared. As for Gas, no wonder Vegeta sent him to deal with it. Vegeta: "Your fault, so you deal with him!"

Well we say Gas but technically Elec... And that is where I think where the true twist that we'll remember lies.

​@@AstraFulminous I actually really like Elec, which is why I'm disappointed that he's not being all that smart anymore and is just waiting around for Gas to get the job done. He should be getting out of there in case something goes wrong, considering how powerful Goku, Vegeta, and Granolah are. He even let Minito and Oatmeal go for whatever reason. Lame. :/

Already? Well, it's OK.

@@MasakoX I think its because to me, its memorable if its anime adapted lol

Cell By himself is also pretty bland if you ask me

Cell is more bland than goku black

Cell wasn't the best thing, TFS carried his character a lot

Oh yeah, out of context, it's hilarious.

We do think he is since he has the requisite transformations.

@@MasakoX I mean I still think the elec will be didn't they make a second wish?

I know they aren't quite the same but I always saw Goku Black as the official Xicor.

He's definitely being pitched as a villain, but with a more unusual position. To me, he's the Dabura to Elec's Babidi.

Tbf Super doesn't really have Villains outside of this, Frieza (who was Z), and Goku Black. The rest are moreso just antagonists whose collide with the Z Fighters (Beerus doing his job as destroyer, Hit taking part in a tournament, and Jiren and the other universes fighting for survival during the ToP)

We liked their overall concept. We just hope that Elec doesn't fall into the typical villain tropes. Remain unique!

@@MasakoX Just don't be too surprised when he does. This is dbs afterall.

Nah

We don't mind the character, but their overall impression will be difficult to see.

Not to mention the fact that Gas is also just a kid. He doesn’t know what he’s doing and he doesn’t understand the sacrifice he’s made by gaining this power. All he understands is that he’s helping his brother.

but isn't the next chapter the end of the saga? Not a lot of time to set anything like that up where it would feel satisfying.

Yeah there are some good parts to him, but sadly with him getting the power without effort or training, it'll detract from the overall memorability.

@@MasakoX I honest don't quite mad about that bit, but more about that I expect a growth from him, not physically. But physical growth seem to be all we got.

@@MasakoX Not really... Not at all in fact. How many villains in this series actually train to get their power? Besides Golden Frieza, almost no villain train to get their power. I don't get why all of a sudden the fandom is pretending to care how a villain got their power. 6 different villains in this franchise just got their power by stealing other peoples power anyway, and no one even began to complain about that until OG73 was introduced.

@@commanderchungusboi6758 It's also weird thinking about the fact we actually have characters using the dragon balls smartly besides the z fighters who basically always used it to wish away all the bad things that happened...

@@commanderchungusboi6758 yeah. And don't forget gohan's two power ups. He realy erned ssj2 but ultimate is whole different topic.

Jiren is a absolute force of nature and is shown to be multiple time......in the anime. The manga fell short on this very hard to the point Jiren looks just like everyone else there. In the anime, everyone was actively avoiding Jiren and when Jiren gets involved in anything, it is a squashfest. Even knocked back the Spirit Bomb and fought off a new transformation, something every single villain cant say(Beerus doesn't really count)

Yeah I agree with this and have been saying the same thing for a really long time. We barely see any indication of characters getting stronger.

Honestly I disagree with that approach. Given enough time writing power escalation, there just reaches a point where you can’t visually depict greater levels of strength. All that would be shown is speedlines upon speedlines, afterimages galore, and so much destruction, the magnitude of it can’t impress you anymore. Honestly, while it’s inaccurate to the characters’ power, grounding the fights is better for the reading experience.

@@thatnerdyouseeeverywhere7536 There are hundreds of ways to show it. Manga did a great showing of speed and power in Beerus vs Champa. Many other anime with lesser levels of power are displaying better destruction than dragon ball characters all of whom are pretty much gods now. When Goku gets hurt by rocks falling on him it's just laughable.

He is still boring.

@@LupineShadowOmega but you can't say that he doesn't have a lot of fans.

Just because he's shoved everywhere doesn't mean he's popular, it just means that the company is trying to push him as the next big thing. Wrestling does it all the time. They take a guy who they feel will be the face of the company and push him hard, regardless of actual fan reaction. I remember when Jiren was announced for Dragon Ball FighterZ, a game that would get a huge fan reaction. But no one cared. We were more interested in the character that was announced alongside him, Videl. I know I was.

Jiren facts: Try something!!! TLDR: Jiren is more popular than he appears.

@@SSJWolverine US people aren't the whole world, Jiren is really loved in Latin America for example

At least Jiren earned that power with years of hard work and fighting, instead of merely wishing for it.

Gas overall is fine...but will we remember him in a few years without prompt?

*sniff* Eww...

I think gas only has 1 year or less to live

How could you forget that? That's the exact opposite of forgettable.