I've been playing Dragonbane for most of this year. I love it! This was a really well done and fair assessment of the game. I just started a new campaign GMing for a group of players who come from a 5e background. At first, they were a little turned off because it seemed vanilla...and then we played. They were blown away and were making plans for the next session before we even got through character advancement.
That’s awesome to hear. It’s strange sometimes talking about a game having only read it and not played. Always a bit worried that I have come to the wrong conclusions about how a game might feel or play going just by the rules and the book.
You say vanilla, I say creme brulee. 😆 I have now had a chance to run this as a one-shot for my 5e group and play in an online one-shot, and I have to say I am now obsessed with this game. (And I say this as someone who started playing D&D in 1976…) However, with my background, I don’t see it as a 5e with house rules, but as a super-streamlined RuneQuest. (Which, after all, is its design lineage…). I think you’re right on target with the comparison to lower-level D&D, and the element of risk maintains engagement.
Played a couple DB one-shots and now about 8 games into a campaign. I've only played a handful of 5e, generally stick to other systems Advancement Characters might learn skills based on criticals + engagement, not levels Advancement gets harder as skills improve Characters can learn skills outside of "class" rather than multiclassing Combat Initiative cards faster and more varied than d20/Agi/Dex Roll under, no DC, no modifiers lead to faster combat Magic Boosting magic at cost of willpower is a big plus Reasonable number of spells doesn't feel overwhelming Characters Doesn't feel like there are wasted skills or professions PCs don't feel over/under-powered Rolling up characters feels easier than 5e Roleplay No axis of good/evil/law/chaos; feels more natural the PC & player Ducks/Wolfkin classes add to the roleplay/world experience Overall, I think it's a superior Swords & Sorcery / Dungeon Crawl game vs 5e and is quickly becoming one of my favorites.
Ducks are from Runequest. The game mechanic is simplified BRP on a D20. Runequest was the first BRP game. The tropes are clearly D&D. Bland and generic. Discussion of advantage and disadvantage was first prepared for Call of Cuthulhu 7th ed. Unfortunately Chaosium were in a logistical mess and the edition was delayed, 5th D&D came out way earlier and also has advantage and disadvantage. It wasn't the first game to test the idea though. Call of Cuthulhu is also BRP. Do I like D&D 5th? hhmm. It's okay. I'm appreciative. Do I like Dragonbane? Yes it's great. I preferred Ruinmasters though. It was tough, strikingly different and complex yet also based on the original Dragonbane IP. Unfortunately C'mon bought the IP and it disappeared. The new Dragonbane Bestiary is interesting. Nice video.
I think a weapon's durability stat is used as a check vs the amount of damage parried, not spent or reduced with each parry. If the damage exceeds the durability the weapon used to parry it is damaged. Unless i missed something.
I have been playing it for over 30 sessions. As one of my players put it "every combat feels like it's the last one and we are all going to die". The death mechanics are genius. Player's falling unconscious and rising up with the help of sheer willpower and 0HP. "Monster always hits" to my mind is the most innovative rule. It makes players terrified! And when the monster draws 6 initiative cards - players just gasp and go pale.
Dragonbane is the latest version of the classical Drakar och Demoner, the orginal came out 1982. In Sweden (and the nordic countries d&d never became a thing). It is originally based on basic roleplaying system from Chaosium.
Thanks for the context. I don’t know anything about those games or that legacy/tradition of RPGs. But heck I’ll put both the games you mentioned on my reading list, if I can find them in English, the book club may swing back to check them out. In One of these episodes it might be cool to read a book about the history of rpgs, I know there are books that chart out the history of DnD. I will have to see if there are any similar books about the history of rpgs in Europe. That’s a side of the hobby I am totally blind too.
@@zacharygroombridge6511 There have been several books released in recent years about the history of Swedish RPGs. The problem of course is that they are all in Swedish. Second best thing would be to listen to some of the many interviews with Free League's Tomas Härenstam where he talks about Dragonbane or Forbidden Lands. They often start with a short summary of the history of Swedish RPGs. Forbidden Lands was a game that Free League released in 2018 after a failed attempt to license the Drakar och Demoner (Dragonbane) trademark. There are also some interviews in English with Fredrik Malmberg, the guy who took the initiative to create Drakar och Demoner which was the first Swedish RPG.
@@zacharygroombridge6511 I just received a newsletter announcing that Fandrake, the publisher that released three of the big books about the history of Swedish TTRPGs, now plan to release a book in English in September. Yes, it has a duck on the cover! Look out for "Outside the Box" by Magnus Seter. They're already taking pre-orders from Swedish customers but are still trying to figure out how to do international shipping.
@@zacharygroombridge6511 The most internationally well known spinoff variation of Swedish DoD is probably Trudvang. It started of as a campaign world and them evolved to its own game.
Came here to say that. I cringed every time he compared DochD to 5e as though DochD was based on 5e. I wished he had done at least a little research on the game before making the video.
14:54 This summarises one of my main issues with D&D really well. I want to develop my character through roleplaying. I like seeing them change by interacting with the world. I also like them to be weak, scared and way in over their heads. The rapid progression in D&D just ruins all that. The characters change faster than I can justify through roleplaying. I grew up playing the 1991 edition of Drakar och Demoner/Dragonbane and was used to a more down-to-earth low-power style of play. I didn't play D&D until 2020 and it was a bit of a culture shock. I plan to introduce my D&D-playing friends to Dragonbane once our current D&D campaign is over. We all have different tastes in RPGs so it'll be interesting to see how it goes.
Good review. I played it myself and love it. You are pretty accurate with the shortcomings of D&D and where Dragonbane shine in comparison. You put a lot of emphasis on the setting and the world of Dragonbane - to me those things didn't matter at all since I only do homebrew worlds anyway. You could use the default Dragonbane setting, any homebrew classic fantasy setting or any setting from other classic fantasy setting in Dragonbane with very few house rules. The flat scaling of characters, fewer class resources before you are "dry" and the higher lethality of Dragonbane is defiantly why you should play this. The Monster combat is very different to NPC combat and very different from D&D monster combat. For a west marches campaign defiantly Dragonbane over D&D.
thats a fair point about the setting. its tough because many people seek out different things in RPG books. some people get RPG books and don't play them, perhaps they don't have a group, or perhaps they are more committed to another game. I think alot of people have a shelf of RPGs that they will probably never play, i have dozens of rpgs on my shelf and have played maybe half of them. the quality of a game's art and setting and its style give it value as a coffee table book or as a source for ideas in the other RPG that you are currently playing. a pretty book with good stories, characters and ideas can win a place at your gaming group's table before a game with perfect mechanics. a game with a great setting can earn a place on your shelf until, perhaps years later, you suddenly have a group to play a trpg and you can have it to hand.
Surprised you didn’t cover roll pushing (and the inherent risk of doing so) here, as this is a core mechanic of many of the games from Free League Publishing and a great one too. Take their Alien RPG for example, where pushing equals a ramp up in stress (with risk of panic occurring). But great review, which I’m sharing with people to encourage them to give this a go.
I think you nailed it on what DB does for people. The rules design to speed up play like rolling against your own stat to hit, and character progression being just a choice of skill increases basically helps keep the action going. The campaign it comes with is really interesting to me. Btw Mythic GME isn't a RPG and isn't intended to be used on its own. It can be, but the intention is to use it alongside a rule set of your choice to allow solo play with that rule set. DB's solo rules come with enough that you wouldnt need to use Mythic. Theyre done pretty well and i agree when you get into the solo rules, many more tables and procedures come into play that can make it feel complicated. Thanks for the breakdown and providing your well articulated thoughts on the system!
6:15 well, it's Donad Duck who gets angry in the classic cartoons. Whereas, Daffy Duck is kind of lunatic. I agree there had better be a lore handbook to explain the various kins better.
It's history is based off old chaosium games like magic world, runequest and stormbringer hence the ducks and the order vs chaos stuff. You also see it in the rules tho this edition borrowed a lot of ideas from 5e. Older edition's where mostly standalone module driven without a fixed world and promoted making your own adventures thus it was by design a bit Generic. D&D did not really become popular or even a thing in Sweden until 5e blew upp on youtube.
Love Dragonbane since the public beta during fund raising. My players however have been 50/50, some like DND 5th ed but they typically are the hack and slash players. I find it more enjoyable then 5th ed hands down, because it can be run almost like the solo format. ... Hey it supports Solo play! The Generics is what draws away from the game... but the new expansions are coming.
Wow it seems like classic fantasy is truly a cardinal sin on this channel. It's funny that while you seem to enjoy the system you go out of your way to stress that's despite it's classic theme, sorry generic theme. I haven't touched an RPG in years and then only casually in middle school. Both this and League of Dungeoneers really stood out as a way to dip my toe back in. BTW, LoD has Duckfolk as well in the expansion. I recall reading that they're in the folklore in Sweden. I think the biggest draw is both games seem to be designed to be complete systems, not a gateway to a library of books or add on's you'll need to play. Ultimately I decided on LoD since it's a more fleshed out world with quests, campaigns, and designed around 4 player party. But I really like some of the additions you mentioned. Who knows maybe once I dig into LoD I may pick this up to enhance some of the systems.
The ducks probably came from Glorantha since Dragonbane started as a translation of Basic Role-Playing which in turn was based on RuneQuest. It should be noted though that Donald Duck is a very popular character in Sweden. Ducks were also added to Symbaroum, another Swedish fantasy RPG, as an April fools joke.
I don’t think classic fantasy is a cardinal sin. It is in the end something I quite enjoyed about this book. I do think that because this is a book club I might focus more on the value of novelty and new ideas more than most. Classic fantasy tropes are classic for a reason but they are also part of hundreds of rpgs. those diffrent books can blend together or struggle to do something mechanically or thematically that helps them stand out or earn a place. Most people pick an rpg or two and never read another. never face the fatigue or reading about the same tropes, themes, classes, and takes on fantasy races over again. I will try to be less critical in the future but I do think it is worth mentioning.
@@zacharygroombridge6511, appreciate the reply. It's not so much criticism as it is belaboring the point. I'm just thankful I wasn't taking a shot each time you said generic as I would have been laid out before you mentioned the ducks. I get that for many who watch and review, that classic fantasy is a bit stale which is a total fair point to make. But as you stated for many who don't have the time or experience in the hobby it's not. For us it's so much easier to dive into something familiar and have fun without having to figure out quirky classes and lore. I think you did a great job of relaying what sets the game apart from other games, and didn't need to contrast it in such a redundant way. Sure says it's generic once, then show more detailed examples for the book and let people decide for themselves. But overall loved the enthusiasm of the review.
