Here's why Dragunov is the best character in God Of Destruction, EVO 2024, and every tournament in tekken 8 from launch to now. Twitter: / @noback_tk Discord: / discord
just worth noting that this is about drag at the pro level, not drag in general. i think drag is whatever in most ranks but at the highest level of play he’s definitely not balanced.
@@nobacktalk Prime Dragunov in T7 and I got my god of destruction within weeks of release. When there was actually competition in rank. When I come across players who claim dragunov is broken in July, after 4 rounds of nerfs to all his best moves. Those players are usually the types who allow Dragunov players to bully them with a bunch of fake pressure and fake mixups.
@@kamitenshi3825 Drag got nerfed a lot but +7 off qcf4 makes a lot of stuff real. There’s plenty of fake stuff tho for sure, but I don’t think drag is strong under TGS lol since everyone else has better fake pressure
@@nobacktalk do you think qcf4 going from no pushback allowing brain dead loops with running 2 or full crouch low to having a bunch of pushback, hatchet going from plus 7 to plus 3, while having the range nerfed and staggering on block now, running 2 going from plus 6 to plus 4, them taking the ability to pick up the opponent if they stayed on the floor with the fc low or the low having the counter hit knockdown into a guaranteed hit removed, b4 no longer hitting grounded, oki removed from the 1+2 grab, damage nerfs on the 44 (impacts combos), damage nerf on fff4 (impacts combos). Do you think any of these nerfs made a difference?
I've always have said this, but as a Drag main, the biggest issue with Drag is not the character, but the fact that Tekken 8 became a rushdown game, and Drag is THE rushdown character. The system is made for him. So, to adjust Drag further is to adjust the whole system in Tekken 8.
@@zaofactor Imo I agree to an extent because heat dash makes his wr2 pretty free, but the big issue is that his big moves come out too fast. Having a window where he can get ch by a 15 frame mid (many chars have this) if chaining plus frame moves would make him a lot more balanced.
Biggest issue is that he got freaking lows in this game. Not only does he have the best mids, but all of a sudden, you now better be ducking dragunov in this game. Hatchet, full crouch lows, he never should have gotten these. Not to mention sneak pressure too. Without all this he wouldn't be as broken cuz he would have a big weakness in his lows in exchange for having the best mids. Even if they nerf the moves once again, it's the very existence of all these lows that's problematic.
"once your opponent respects you, you are playing the best character in the game, mathematically" yes bro thats exactly it. and its what he deserves. look i'll be honest, i want to win and im not some world class talent at fighting games or tekken. I'm desperate here, so i have to crutch on a broken character, just the truth. some people are able to completely wallop me even still, there are pro level players of almost every character. its not great for his image that a bunch of drags were in top 8, but i dont think hes really dominating the meta. i dont even really encounter him a lot, on line or in person, so i think where he is at is good and shouldnt change. but they will nerf him. they will nerf him every patch. and eventually ill have to drop him. dragunov is like a chain of darkness around my heart, and one day i will be delivered by the light. but till that day... im mashing wr 2
Great video! After watching Atif steamroll the bottom top 6 at Evo yesterday something has to be done, I like your suggestions and it will hopefully help mix things up in the future tournaments
This was a sick video, and it showed that you not only understand Tekken, but you also understand the Design Philosophy behind Sergei Dragunov. I disagree with 2 things in this video, but I also learned something and had my mind changed while watching, which is that Heat existing at all and Dragunov's ability to say no to a Mixup once per Round with Heat Burst, it allows him to get his chain of huge Haymakers going in a diegetic way that he doesn't actually have to Set Up through Play. Since Heat Engagers make it to where the other guy JUST HAS TO hold the Mixup Situation after, Drag can forgo doing damage and instead just apply his chain of messed up +Frames. My biggest change for Sergei would be to completely Nerf the way QCF4 operates. It has every Property a Player needs to win an Interaction. Because it Hits Grounded, you can't just Lay on the Ground and make your opponent have to decide what they want to Hit you with. Trying to use Getup Kicks is a hard sell because it Wallsplats so fighting back with such low reward and ridiculous risk against a Move that is + is not tantalising. Due to the fact that QCF4 also does Chip Damage, regardless of whether or not he gets a Wall Ender, if he ends his Combo at or near the Wall, every QCF4 tacks on an additional 5 or so Points of Damage due to the Chip. If you get up and Block, it perfectly it starts his Pressure Game at the Wall where it is his most threatening. Tekken is designed where Attacks are supposed to have Flaws on purpose. This Move literally has 0. It's +, Hits Grounded, does Chip Damage, and Wallsplats. There is no Counterplay. The Counterplay is stand up and take your Mix like a man AFTER already taking Chip Damage from it. My change is this: QCF4 does a Knockdown or a special animation where the opponent Splats on the Wall with their belly rather than their back so you can't get a follow up or it does a Hard Knockdown like with Dragunov's Back 1+2. It also no longer Hits Grounded, this way Dragunov is actually tasked with waking you up rather than literally just winning an Interaction completely for free. One of Tekken's hardest aspects in a FT2 Set is figuring out how your Opponent likes to Wake Up. Scouting Wakeups is a deep aspect of the Game and when you're at the Wall with Dragunov there is no Game. It is, you do QCF4, if they don't stand up and eat your Mixup afterward, they take free Damage. That's their choice. Free Damage and shittier Positioning, or Free Damage and they have to Block what Dragunov does next. It HAS to be changed. No ifs, no ands, no buts. It's completely broken. I do NOT use that term lightly.
Whaddup Kyle, my fellow commentator. I understand people really don’t like ignition switch in this game ( qcf4) but that move + fc1 4 is literally what makes him different from T7, otherwise he would be exactly the same. I undersrand both groups saying hes fine, and those who are frustrated. Honestly what i would do is to make the character more execution heavy, rather than change properties of his attacks. I dont think matchup with this character is unplayable, Yoshis flash, Steves b1, theres some pretty good tools in this game to shut him down and make him respect you.🤷🏼♂️ And if we’re talking damage im enjoying it, cause his damage from across the stage + at the wall was really funny.
@@martinmonroe7082 Ignition Switch is what made him get into Top 8 with 5 different representatives. No other Character wins Oki at the Wall like he does, and he gets rewarded disproportionately in comparison to every other character in the Game. Drag's Pressure at the Wall is too threatening for him to get 5 Points of Chip Damage and +7 that Wallsplats, AND Hitting Grounded for free. He HAS to think about his Wakeups. If he doesn't we're going to see more Top 8 being dominated by what you call "Fake" Dragunovs because you CANNOT give Professional Players who understand the ins and outs of Games free Positions. QCF4 after your Combo near the Wall is a free Position. That Play literally plays itself because Waking the opponent up, Obtaining Wall Pressure, and doing Damage all happen simultaneously because it does Chip Damage as well. REGARDLESS of what happens, they take Damage AFTER Dragunov's Combo ends. Playing the same as T7 doesn't really matter because the Position is too strong and does not require anything of Dragunov but expects the Opponent to bear even more responsibility than just Combo Damage after they lose. You might understand Dragunov but you don't understand Game Design if you think Ignition Switch is actually a fair move in a competitive Player vs Player format. It's literally too punishing to defend against in a FT2 Format. Nobi literally knows Dragunov in and out and can play the Character at the Highest Level. He cannot do anything about a +7 Mid that Wallsplats, Hits Grounded, and Does Chip. If he COULD do anything about Ignition Switch he wouldn't have gotten 9-0'd by a Player who has only taken Dragunov seriously for less than a year. If you watch back Nobi vs Atif, all Atif did was look for QCF4 and Sidestep it when Nobi did it yo him in Neutral while he applied it to Nobi at the Wall and Nobi died every time because the Position is too threatening while costing Dragunov nothing because it requires 0 Resources. Respectfully, nah. It needs Nerfs.
Dragunov the only character I know who allegedly gets better the more he is nerfed. The players don’t get any credit for adapting and adjusting to the consistent nerfs the character has received since launch and the players who are dominating in tournaments with him aren’t some of the best players on the planet who have track records of winning on any character they play.
@@holden6104 so qcf4 pushing back on block is a damage nerf? B4 no longer hitting grounded is a damage nerf? The 1+2 grab oki is a damage nerf? The range on hatchet kick, the move going from plus 7 to plus 3 and it going from -15 on block to a hard stagger is strictly a damage nerf? I think you people have already forgotten how broken that character was on release lol.
They need to Quit nerfing then buffing then nerfing People just main characters to tier who’re and I don’t blame em tho Just saying how many people genuinely love dragonuv … a decent amount but he isn’t loved like Bruce or something
I've been playing Tekken and other 3D fighters for years, so I have NO nostalgia for Tekken 7. In fact I HATE the game. However I also deeply despise the Tekken 8 meta. It is god awful. Not just because "MUH AGGRESSION". DOA for example is has always been an inherently offensive franchise. At least since DOA4. But DOA has a triangle of systems that ENSURES that players can't abuse plus frames and strings all day. Look at the bloody Tekken 8 matches. Robbery mechanics, plus frames for days and EXTREME 50/50s. WTF is this? MKX? I'm not even struggling in the game. But I cannot respect this game's design. Tekken 8 is bloated with hard carried bad players.
It's because atif and the pakistani style in general is big on confidence, and he had way more confidence than nobi and JD. Look how many qcf4's atif was throwing out compared to JD and nobi, and you'll see a big reason as to why he won.
@@nobacktalk that's not why he won. He beat them via well timed sidesteps fundamentals and exceptional low parries. Low parrying stuff even guys like Arslan and knee would get hit by. That's not a character issue that's a player skill expression. Arslan proved it's definitely not an issue of character balancing because he made it look easy. In my opinion he should've switched to Feng or Bryan from the start of GF but oh well. But yes Atif is the best Dragunov player in the world and a previous twt champion as well world league held in Saudi where team Pak won big. It's not a character issue it's player skill level. Parrying sidestepping and duck punishment moves like drag 34 or wr2 or D2 isn't a character issue it's player proficiency
@@MJfp6lx The reason he was able to get so many sidesteps is because he made so many favorable situations for himself via qcf4 and fff2, along with him being a strong player
Dragunov (this current iteration) compliments Atif's playstyle quite a lot. Like the video said. Dragunov is a COMPLETE Tekken character, that rewards players with good fundamentals, defense, and mindset. Atif's a very well rounded player with an extremely good offensive capabilities, as well as defensive. Keisuke didn't get to Top8 by accident. His offense and mixup game is top notch. and Atif was able to shut it down convincingly through good positioning, defense, and mind games. Likewise, Arslan is a good defensive player, but Atif chose Feng to shutdown some of Nina's tendencies with fishhook and other tools. (it was however a bit too late). That being said, Dragunov is really up there in the tier list, if not on the top, for the reasons mentioned in the video. Good explanation. Mindset/Mindgames play a HUGE part in this iteration of Tekken, via the mechanics such as chip damage, heat, armor, and rewarding offense rather than defense.
Hmmm but I always thought Small Tekken beats Big Tekken. A 13 frame move will always beat a 19 frame one. From Dragunov's strengths that you outline in this video, I feel I can beat him with quick keep out pokes (10-14 frames) so he can keep his distance and not use his Big Tekken.
The issue is that input frames only matter when playing on immediate timings (right after a move on block or hit). When you're playing a strong neutral you can usually build up respect for the extra 6-10 frames of input for a large move.
@@nobacktalk great point. So to counter this I'd probably have to stay sharp on my neutral game to see what mode he is in, that is.. if he's trying to whiff punish then I rush him with pokes, if he's playing keep out then I whiff punish him, and if he's rushing in I'll play keep out. If I can figure out what mode he is weakest in I can use that to my advantage.
You think that...but look at Atif vs Keisuke. Atif was disrespecting everything with his jab strings, then d2 when when Keisuke would stall. Arslan had a GP for him but it was clear as day that Drag is just way too strong pressure wise. Dude in the vid breaks it down further.
5 players that happened to be amongst the best in the world. Lowhigh, ulsan, Atif, fear of silence. They would have got their with secondary characterers too.
I'm an old enthusiast (purple at best) that only knows how to use Dragunov but have used him since like 5 or 6 and I need y'all Super Goods to let my dude have his moment in the sun.
0:53 I gotta disagree most people in the top 24 utilized a poking/movement style to maximize safety big moves can’t be spammed at a high level because the other opponent will use movement or counters to kill you on a read
I have mained dragonov since i think tekken 6 he has kinda always been secretly this strong if not even stronger in previous games tbh. He def had more counter hits in previous games and I miss that about him. He even loss some of his combos into command grabs . I think he may be weaker in this Tekken compared to previous Tekkens. I don’t think he needs to be nerfed in his current iteration tbh. With that said I think the sheer amount of options most of the cast has just in terms of strings and routes just kinda put others over him by way of just having stronger understanding of the game make him a better character imo
@@ViewtifulJae the level where you’re using strings into grabs, or strings in general as a measurement of a character’s strength isn’t the level where dragunov is broken imo
broken is really exaggerated! he is THE strongest character in the game and has some really stupid tool like his qcf 4,his b4 string series and his fc df14 but he isn't broken
I think he’s balanced in general play and ranked, but in top level play I would consider him broken tbh. Just need to be way too locked in to beat him while the drag can play normally.
Tell that to the 3 dragunovs in top 4. The only reason he's not outright leroy japan level broken is because there are characters near his strength level with Jin, feng, Nina, alisa and yoshi.
Your tier list kinda flaw... 😬 I remember when in `EVO USA 2024` days ago, some of pro Korean player change to Reina (While he plays as Dragunov before), hes fight with other Dragunov and lose, from that match i seen character tier gap is so huge, from this point, Reina is not the same tier as Dragunov... 😬
Sorry bro, I checked out once you said poking doesn't matter at the highest level. Drag especially with that 1,2 10f string with tracking, 2,1 string with sway mix, b4 string with ch timing and mix, df1 che ks, d2 tracking checks is what he uses to allow himself to use those big power moves. If what you said was true then Bryan would be top 1 too because he has some of the best big moves. But he lacks in poke pressure and tracking for fast pokes and is more sluggish to initiate pressure with due to which you rarely see bryan make top 8 even though he is A+ overall.
Small tekken is way superior to big tekken. Power moves have bad risk reward. This is why Pakistan is the best region. The only 2 players that seemed to understand this at evo this year was atif and arslan. It was annoying at times watching ppl get smoked by these 2. They deserved first and second place. The other competition weren't even close
I don't really understand why everyone is so mad with dragunov. I don't really notice something op with him. On release? Maybe. Now?Just no. Throws are not homing, running 2 is +4, hatched on block equals death. Im totally fine against him, while dying aginst any king, alisa and feng. Im playing lars, reina and bryan at blue ranks and my main problems are steve, feng and bs characters like zafine, xiaoyu, yoshi etc. I really don't understand your problems, maybe im playing another t8 than you
@@Alexmih749 This video is talking about drag at the pro level, so yea it’s different tekken. At blue ranks drag is whatever, his strengths probably get blues killed more than not because it makes them push on plus permanently
Basically you’re losing to knowledge check characters which makes complete sense at that rank. I’m not saying that to say you’re bad, you might beat me tbh, but that’s the common theme I’m seeing... Dragunov isn’t really as much of a knowledge check character at that level imo
@@nobacktalk i disagree but make a video showing why he is op then. as a challenge if you can even thoroughly break down jins playstyle as you did with drag ill have more respect for you
@@BecomingYourIdeal i have a few other videos planned but maybe. i dont think jin has a clear gameplan like drag because the char has really strong properties on all his moves. the player makes the playstyle on that char which is why he's so popular i just think he's strong because he's the most complete char in the game, and he has some of the best move properties in the game. full low suite, best strings, best counterhit low, best ewgf, best high crush low. the only weak part about him is his heat, but his heat smash is great too. i feel like it's kind of hard to dispute these things
@@nobacktalk you are correct about jins playstyle. As much as he is talked about there is not one video breaking down exactly why he is op. As you make the video and go through is strong moves you opinion will change. he absolutely does not have the best strings he has a good string at 2,1,4 ,1,3 is good. the best properties meaning they give advantage yes? if so that's incorrect. best counterhit low is debatable i give that to Jun personally. best ewgf in fact Jin has the worst ewhf because it tornados on hit the best goes to Kaz. and his high crush properties arent instant he can be hit before he can high crush thats incorrect.
@@BecomingYourIdealweakest Jin down player 😂 Ewhf being a tornado isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Combo potential wise it’s worse than ewgf. Neutral wise it’s better than ewgf because tornado on trades is almost always a guaranteed combo. Combine that with his strong diverse kit. It’s really good.
Every character suddenly becomes broken when they win tournaments. Ask NA's best Drag, Fear of Silence if he is broken. Tekken is super balanced and any character can win now, a lilly won EVO japan ffs, I didnt see or hear anyone crying then, " oh chickurin played awesome" blablaa blaa. Totally disagree with you. Nina, Lily, Dragunov, Shaheen, have all won major tournaments now, the game is reasonably balanced.
Lili got nerfed in the 1.05 patch. She was definitely top 5 before. Nina is top 5 and stayed untouched. Shaheen gets away with ridiculous stuff because 2 people main him and nobody knows the matchup.
@@Cawe_DNina did not stay untouched lol. The big system mechanic nerfs were towards her more than any other character (ie aerial tailspins and command grabs, like she was the only grabby character to not get a homing grab which isn’t a big deal just that that’s how you know the balance team intended the nerf to affect her the most) I’m a Nina main obviously, I’m not complaining about these nerfs and I’ve also accepted she’ll most likely get more in the future but the narrative that’s she’s been untouched is by people who don’t play her or understand how she works
