Drascombe Lugger “Lilly Ella” Experiments with Heavy Weather Sail Configurations off Stonehaven 

Thanks David. Yes, Webb Chiles was quite an inspiration! I usually take the GoPro with me when I sail, but like to try and have a theme for any videos posted.

Some poor guy was drowned in a Lugger on the Moray coast I think we all have to be careful in how we assume we can handle incidents at sea. I was a very very competent sea kayaker and unfortunately through my over confidence in my sea handling and Eskimo rolling techniques I almost came to grief on a couple of occasions. The sea at times shows who is master and it certainly is not or was not little me, but I did learn

@@john-wq8kf Hi John, Yes, I am aware of that incident, and others involving open boats. The sea must always be treated with respect, especially in an “open” boat. Sailing is a continuous risk assessment - wind, waves, tide, location (wind/wave impact, safe haven), forecast(s), boat type/condition, crew experience to name a few (well most of!), all to be assessed. I sometimes say that the art of good seamanship is not having to display good seamanship! The Drascombe Lugger is a joy to sail, to take the grand-kids out in, do a spot of fishing, row/motor when the wind dies and I also cruise sheltered areas of the West Coast of Scotland camping aboard.

Super video - excellent tuition in how to handle a lugger, and very impressive MOB under sail demo! Thank you very much Steve.

Thanks Ian - glad you enjoyed it!

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.

Thanks for your kind comment Hugh. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Thanks Walter - glad you enjoyed it!

Thanks. It's great fun practising so when the weather does really pick up I know what to expect, what works and what doesn't!

Yes that mizzen makes heaving to very straight forward!

Thanks Greg. Yes the cap retrieval / MOB drill was not in the initial plan!

Tiring in a short time, not equipped for weather of any duration. Wearing glasses is a negative in such conditions, get back in before dark please.

@@alanbrookes6637 Hi Alan, It's all about planning! Two - three hours in those conditions is fine, not tiring. Not sure how you'd want to be "equipped" for that weather / outing - I think it's fine, or I wouldn't be out there. Wearing glasses is a negative yes - but if you need them to see and can't wear contacts I'm not sure what you would do? Stay ashore? After 40 years of spectacled sailing, on Lasers, Blazes, Musto Skiffs and now the Drascombe Lugger, I've learned to live with it, and don't notice. Plenty folks wear their sunglasses when out enjoying the water as well. And yes I do get "in" before it's dark, but on my cruising trips I'll be at anchor, on a buoy or in harbour when it's dark - and yes I have an anchor light!

Hi Mike, Glad you enjoyed it!

Hope you enjoyed your sail!

Hi Scott, Thanks for your comments. I’ve just got the one GoPro and did try to position it to see all sails at the same time but that didn’t work out. A view of the mizzen would be good as it does affect the balance and the slow speed manoeuvers. I’m glad you enjoyed sailing along with me!

Thanks - I hope you enjoyed the ride!

Glad you enjoyed it Hedley!

Thanks!👍😂

Thanks. Glad you found it useful / informative.

Thanks!

Thanks Don.

Thanks Jim!

Thanks for your kind comments! Glad you enjoyed it.

Thanks John. That one came as a surprise to me!

Enjoy your lugger when you get it!

Thanks Kevin. Mizzen to help with balance makes it easier!

Thanks Richard!

Thanks Kevin - glad you enjoyed it!

Thanks Steve - yes the lugger is a good boat!

Hi John, Glad you enjoyed coming along for the sail! Yes this getting old is not for the faint hearted. Sounds as though you've enjoyed your sailing - especially in a boat you've built. RU-vid is a great way to do some armchair sailing - my favourite at the moment is the restoration of "Tally Ho" www.youtube.com/@SampsonBoatCo Might be of interest to you re your own build. Keep well.

Thanks - it had to be right first time as I know from experience that it sinks before a second attempt!

Glad you enjoyed it Pavol! Good luck with your dinghy build - hope to see that on RU-vid!

Thanks John - just plenty of time in the boat! Glad you enjoyed the video.

Thanks David - I knew I had one chance only before the cap sank!

😊

Hi Bruce, Glad you enjoyed it! I’ve never sailed in the Menai Strait but believe it can be very tricky.

@@steveporteous3157 It is a while ago, but I remember that caution is required between the 2 bridges.

Thanks Fred!

Thanks Jim

No worries. Good to see you having a crack at the different setups and also good to watch someone who knows what theyre doing. Interested in your mainsheet setup as I have just changed mine over to something similar from the original . Currenly playing around with the angle of the clam cleat on the block so that I'm not inadvertantly locking off the mainsheet while sheeting in and yet also being able to cleat off when necessary. Thinkin about putting a rachet in the setup somewhere so if its too windy to cleat off I'm not fighting the sail. J @@steveporteous3157

@@jimjenner4243 My mainsheet is very simple - see 10:25 in. A simple rope horse. I don't really understand the standard galvanised bar horse. To me it's a trip hazard and takes up space on the aft deck - it's a storage area for me when away camping and with the rope horse I can just set anything down on it, or it's easily removed. The lower mainsheet block shackle just slides on the rope horse. The mainsheet is led to a large cleat on the aft end of the centre-plate housing. If winds are light / stable then I just cleat it off. If it's windy (as in the video) I take a half turn around the cleat to take the pressure off. It'll still release if let go, but to pull it in requires pulling in before the cleat and then pulling the slack after the cleat. I have thought about a cam cleat on the lower block but a couple of things put me off 1) the cost! and 2) I'm not sure how easy it will be to release with the rope horse (too flexible?). It does seem attractive though as it will be easier to tack - I have to take the mainsheet off the cleat every time and it tends to get tangled up on a tack. The jib sheet is cleated in a cam cleat on the leeward side-deck. If it's really windy I'll throw the sheet over the windward gunnel where it's easy to grab and release. The mizzen is cleated in a cam cleat beside the tiller head. It's very easy to adjust - I got rid of an unreliable jam cleat.

Thanks! I've had the boat for 4 years now - my wife's been out once - sail by myself 99% of the time. Time for you to get a Drascombe?

@@steveporteous3157 Man, I'd love one but I've got a boat load of health problems that have worn me down to about 25% of the man I once was. I loved sailing by myself, especially in the chop where you can actually learn boat handling! Stay safe.

@@58landman Sorry to hear about that. There's some great RU-vid videos that "transport" you offshore - I waste many an hour! One of my favourites is the re-build of Tally Ho. www.youtube.com/@SampsonBoatCo I'd recommend starting at the beginning. Keep well!

Thanks for your comments. I took a look at the Caledonia Yawl and it looks like a nice boat. I like double enders! The mizzen is great for balanced sailing and makes having lunch under way a lot easier!

🤓

I think you're right. Really useful for balancing the sail plan, tacking, heaving to, and for attaching the "GoPro" camera to!

Thanks Derrick. I've become a bit of a fan of the mizzen! One of my best "upgrades" was changing the unreliable jam cleat to a dependable cam cleat for the mizzen sheet.

Me too@@steveporteous3157

What a seaworthy boat and capable captain!

@@Guitarque Thank you for your complements!

Just curious. What sort of experimentation have you done with using just the mizzen alone while having to? Which do you prefer, using the jib in conjunction with the mizzen or use of mizzen only?

And I'm sure the same wise man then said, "When you think it's time to shake out a reef, wait for 10 minutes."

Thanks Mark. Although this one was successful, many previous ones were not!

Hi John, Thanks for that. I still prefer the option of the double reefed main and then a couple of rolls on the jib (I’ve got a foil on the jib). I’ve never been out (nor caught out) in anything that required only the jib and mizzen. I quite like the feeling of safety I get knowing the mast also has that reefed main holding it back! Just remembered - on one occasion with threatening squalls coming down off the mountains I felt it necessary to take all sail off and just motor - that was really the fear of a squall of unknown strength. Another video! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mzfBj5rxmcY.html This was the day that convinced me to go from the standard lugger furling jib to a foil system and reefable jib. Sailing offshore the wind is generally steadier (if away from cliffs. headlands etc.) or the squalls can be seen coming. Re the wind speed, I find it always difficult to estimate! Mid teens of knots gusting to low 20s would be my best estimate. I do have an anemometer but when it gets windy it seems to stay in the bag!

Thanks for watching. Yes, I must either invest in a second camera or find a better location for the one I have - it's just too easy to stick the camera on the mizzen mast! The jib roller reefing is not standard on the Drascombe Lugger but I find it very useful. A couple of rolls takes the viciousness out of the squalls but still gives some power in the lulls - and it's soo easy to reduce or make sail area with it.

​@@steveporteous3157,One of my friends mounts a camera on his small boat as follows: a rather long PVC pipe, bent in the shape of the letter S, is inserted into the socket on the transom, and the camera is placed on it. Thus, the view is obtained from behind and from the side. Although the jib will still not be visible, the overall picture will be more advantageous.

@@user-xg7pl1we4i Thanks. Yes I do need to try something different. I did have a go with the boat hook but almost lost everything over the side!

Do you happen to have the link for that?

@@steveporteous3157 Can't find it again. It was a story about ketches & yawls as live aboard / big touring boats. Mizzen & jib combos seem very popular with them.

Hi Pablo, I’m glad you enjoy the videos and thank you for commenting again. You will have seen below in your previous comment the reasoning for installing the mizzen boom.
Has the mizzen boom enhanced the performance of the sail? I would say yes, especially off the wind where the boom holds out the sail. There is also the ability vary the tension along the foot of the mizzen sail while at the same time changing the boom angle with the mizzen sheet. However, I think the performance advantage will be quite small. The biggest advantages are as mentioned in the earlier comment. One small disadvantage is that it is slightly more difficult to fold / roll away the sail after sailing, when at anchor or just sailing without the mizzen. Best regards, Steve

Glad you enjoyed the video. Yes the mizzen is a great sail. I’m not too sure how much drive (in combination with full main and jib) it gives but it certainly is a good balancing sail.

Hi Pablo, Thanks for your comments. I have a Standard Horizon HX870 VHF that has GPS built in. After inputing "Way Points" it will give the course and distance to steer - although I just use the distance away from the waypoint. It also gives the speed and course "over the ground", so includes any tidal effects. I keep it on Channel 16 (distress and calling frequency) and it gives regular (every 4 hours) weather updates (on a different channel but announced on Channel 16). If it's windy then I always hold the mainsheet in my hand and have the jib sheet very close. This is so that I can release them both very quickly should a gust of wind come along and threaten to over power or capsize the boat. If it's not so windy and the winds are stable then I might cleat it off. Re the main and jib, I just feel it is more controllable and gives the boat more drive through the waves. I have a reefing jib so can sail with some rolls in the jib that makes it more controllable. If it is very windy then I would take down the mainsail, but probably by then the jib and mizzen would also be rolled away and I would be proceeding under motor alone. But, I'm never usually out in that kind of weather. I plan every trip and make risk assessments (or risk assess as I go along) to ensure there is no chance of being in a position where the weather and waves would take control! I think your trial and error approach is very good. Too often people just go out and sail. It is good to try different things, and rough weather techniques, when you don't need them to see how your boat handles. Enjoy your boat!

Mr. Porteous thank you very much for your comments that help me a lot. Here in the small towns on the coast of Spain, VHF is rarely used for communication between small boats, and mobile phones are used. For navigation I use the Navionics app. I do not know the reefing system of your jib because it is hardly visible in the videos. Nor is the mizzen sail much observed. I have read a system that you describe to reef the mizzen sail with some folds that I have not understood either.@@steveporteous3157

That would have been fun, and I daresay a bit wetter than on the Drascombe!

Good luck with the build!

I’ve only been with the club for 12 years or so so must have missed you! I’m sure there’s still plenty of your sailing buddies around and sailing.

I remember that too, especially for masts set up with a bend, fractional rigs etc. The main (full or reefed) provides support along the length of the mast. I think the small loads and short mast of the Drascombe should be OK though. Someone else also said to keep the main and mizzen mast independently stayed, so that one mast doesn't pull the other mast down if one were to go. So the Drascombe meets that requirement! Thanks for commenting.

Hi Dave, You should be OK. You now see the benefits of using just a knot and no wedges on the gaff! My halyard sheave is not at the top of the mast so my halyard tie off point on the gaff is actually quite low. It gets better when the sail is reefed. The greater the distance between the gaff jaws and the halyard tie-off point on the gaff the better as this reduces the bending moment on the gaff. The lower down the gaff the halyard is tied off the greater the bending moment. Try it and see if the gaff bends appreciably more. My thoughts are that at full sail wind speeds you’ll be OK. More wind and potential bending, you’ll be reefed so OK again. A smallish difference for loose footed mains is that by raising the whole sail, the sheeting angle will be less optimum, tensioning the leach and not so much the foot. However, if you are using a boom it won’t make any difference. I tried a boom but gave up as the benefits didn’t seem to outweigh the additional hassle. Re seeking to sail in higher winds, just the note of caution after the reports of a Dabber (I think) in trouble on the south east coast of Scotland a few days ago. www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-66658133 Good luck!

I hope you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.

Hi there, I'm glad you've found the videos interesting. Here's a quick video of the centre-plate system ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-e5-xIwPQgvM.html My CP casing had a completely open top and let in lots of water. I fabricated a capping piece - just a board with a flange each side to stop it slipping of sideways, neoprene to act as a seal, two dowels into the cleat block on the aft end to hold it down and rope at the forward end to hold it down there. There's a hole for when the CP is fully down, although I usually sail with the CP just half down. I also made a plug for the front end of the housing where most of the water came in, and a small piece for when the CP is fully down. The normal pulley system for raising the CP was always getting caught in the slot and made storage of items (buckets etc.) in front of the CP housing difficult. I changed this for a single line attached to the CP and moved the tackle to alongside the CP housing. Much better in my opinion! I think if the boat is swamped it would be very difficult if not impossible to bail it out. Maybe in calm water and by stuffing something into the slot it might be possible. However, in capsizing weather, waves etc, I think it would be very difficult. Not only is there the CP slot but also the rudder slot and the outboard well that would flood the boat.

I thank you very much for this detailed discription and video!@@steveporteous3157

Hi Mutley, Thanks! No parrel beads, just the main halyard tied onto the gaff at the right height. I have the gaff marked for full sail, 1st reef and 2nd reef (2nd reef position was wrong as I had scarfed a length to extend my gaff when I got new sails, hence the need to change the 2nd reef position during the video!). Need to make sure the halyard is bar tight with the knot hard into the masthead sheave so when you pull tension on the tack downhaul it doesn’t move. Moving the halyard means you get excellent sail shape when reefed with the gaff hard up against the mast. For the standard boomless mizzen, let go the mizzen sheet (but still tied to the sail), grab the foot half way along, fold / half the sail vertically and then roll the sail around the vertical fold until a nice vertical cylinder. Tie this to the mizzen mast (I have a sail tie permanently attached to the mizzen mast just for this), leaving the mizzen sheet attached. Job done. To use again, just release the sail tie and pull in the mizzen sheet. I now have a mizzen boom, so slightly modified for me; l just fold up the boom onto the mast, roll up the sail and tie the mizzen boom and sail together to the mast.

@@steveporteous3157 thanks for the reply. So the main halyard you do the same as Roger Barnes does. Would seem to be better than hoisting so far then fitting the beads then hoist again

@@mutley192 Not sure what Roger does - I'll have to look!. Here's the knot I use ru-vid.comV4fhvY7lxLc I think it holds the gaff better, close to the mast at all positions. You just need to be aware that the gaff does fall away from the mast when the halyard is released. Important thing is the halyard must be bar tight. If it is not bar tight then tensioning the tack downhaul will stretch the halyard and the gaff will fall a few inches away from the mast - especially true if you have a purchase on the tack down-haul. I've never actually sailed on a boat with the parrel beads but I imagine the gaff if not as tight to the mast, especially when reefed.

Hi Robert,
I’ve got a loop of bungee cord tied to my mainsheet cleat that is in the centre of the boat at the aft end of the centre-plate casing. I just loop this over the tiller and it holds it reasonably central. I like the bungee cord in this position because if necessary I can still steer the boat without taking it off, and it isn’t a trip hazard. There’s a RU-vid video that shows it in use, about 4min 40 seconds in: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UxoW7ICZ2kg.html or a shorter one ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2Q8zz_1lj5Y.html

Hi John, Thanks for watching. I treat my Drascombe as an open boat, knowing that if I were to capsize I would be in serious trouble, but that does not stop me from sailing. Sailing is a continuous risk assessment - wind, waves, tide, location (wind/wave impact, safe haven), forecast(s), boat type/condition, crew experience to name a few (well most of!), all to be assessed. If the risk is too high, including that of capsize, then my plans are modified accordingly. Safe sailing, and kayaking!

Thanks for reply yes on some of my little trips I wonder what my fisherman grandad from Fisherrow would have said about my sometimes hairy little sails on my little Astus 16.1 if he had still been around.

Hi Glyn, The Drascombe Lugger I’d say is a traditional boat. It has a low power gunter lose footed main, jib and a small mizzen. Not sure why it’s called a lugger. The boat is not fast but very enjoyable to sail. The mizzen allows many different sail configurations to suit the weather conditions, crew/ passengers aboard, objective of trip (sailing, fishing, sightseeing etc.). Re traditional working boats my knowledge is limited to those on the north east coast of Scotland and Orkney - Fifes, Zulus and Orkney Yoles. Generally they used lug sails with unstayed masts, or used the halyards as stays. The lug sails gave a large sail area with low masts. They had many sets of reef points to optimise sail area for a fast sail home from the fishing grounds. They were generally relatively small boats able to get into the tidal harbours of NE Scotland. Whilst being powerful rigs they had low loads, unlike the highly stressed rigs of today. They were not very efficient to windward.

@@steveporteous3157 Thank you for that!

Hi Ross, I always find it difficult to estimate wind speed! It did vary through the sail but at the windy bits I'd say mid teens of knots gusting to low 20s would be my best estimate. I do have an anemometer but when it gets windy it seems to stay in the bag!

I always find it difficult to estimate wind speed! It did vary through the sail but at the windy bits I'd say mid teens of knots gusting to low 20s would be my best estimate.

Hi David, Thanks for watching. The next lugger will be yours - enjoy it when you do get one!

Thanks for watching, and yes!

Hi Andy, You could be right! It's a long video though (so not sure which part you are referring to), and I wasn't really trying to make good passage progress to windward so I certainly wasn't knowingly trying to pinch. Sometimes if it's windy I might sail a bit closer to the wind to make it easier to feather the sails by luffing up slightly - saves having to let out and pull back in the main.

So sorry great video it was just a gut feeling whilst you were sailing looking at the sail. Sailing is all down to feel so I admit I may be wrong. @@steveporteous3157

Hi @@andypandy955 , No problem! Appreciate you take the time to watch the video and comment. Best regards, Steve

The boat has a 5HP outboard for when there is no wind and for manoeuvring in close quarters. But, it’s noisy, vibrates and uses petrol so much better to sail when you can. Sailing also gives a much more comfortable and dryer trip!

In the garage! The Drascombe Lugger was designed with a loose footed / no boom main and mizzen. Some Drascombe Lugger owners (guessing

Thanks for your comments and glad you enjoyed it!

Thanks BM for your note of caution. It is good that people realise / understand the limitations of different types / designs of boat, especially an open boat. Being safe at sea relies on many things, and not just the classification of a particular boat. It is certainly not my intention to indicate that a Drascombe is a boat that can handle any sea / weather condition. I am however willing to “take the risk” and sail outwith protected waters. My advice to others is to properly plan any trip, carry out their own risk assessment and then sail or not sail accordingly.

Just so that everyone is aware of the "serious shortcomings" that @Tomm9y was inferring, here is a report of a boat that got into difficulties just a few days ago www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-66658133 I don't know any further details, and don't want to make any assumptions, but anyone who sails an open boat should be aware of the risks.