I have a whole series on this type of setup on my channel and I’ve actually received physical threats because I offended people who set up the way you have that white kit. Thank you for backing me up with pretty much the exact points I’ve been making for years!!! Ive been called names, told I don’t know how to play, and ordered to quit teaching because I’m too stupid to be a drummer. The rage directed at me is actually comical. I agree with you on every point. Nice video. I’m adding this to my playlist to help build my case.
Dan Alnajes you can do what you want but I believe the drum setup should depend on needs and body mechanics... not likes and preferences. Subtle difference. Most people like and prefer what they started with, regardless of how ineffective, damaging, or senseless that is. I’ve literally had people tell me they like the snare to be to the left of their hi hat. Because they didn’t realize you could put it in the middle. Tell me that’s better. That not being able the reach the main snare with your right hand is ok because someone likes and prefers it. Go ahead.
Thanks for this video Jim . Ryan your videos are great too! Helped me out in my early days to figure out drum kit ergonomics. Good thing I increased my "throne height" when it was needed. 😅😅
I've been playing for 35 years and never realized that in all this time, I've been adjusting myself to fit the drums rather than adjusting the drums to fit me. Thanks for this!
Thank you I just started drumming and was overwhelmed with trying to figure out the best way to lay it out for ergonomics and longevity, so I wouldn't have to re-orient myself down the road with a new layout. This did the trick! 🙌🏼
Amazing, great video. I’ve set my kit up like this for years, it makes sense. The way people set up their double bass drum kits are the same. It’s natural and comfortable. Well done.
I was always stumbling, and then I removed that middle Tom and replaced it with the ride cymbal. It instantly changed the entire way I play and everything flows so much better
Jim thank you so much for this lesson! I regularly perform 2-3 hour gigs on my kit and my lower back is often screaming at me halfway through, which can affect my concentration and enjoyment of playing. I set my kit up like you recommended here, and I can instantly tell a difference. These tips are exactly what I was looking for. Thanks man! You're the best
Brilliant basic ergonomics lesson but so so important specially when you are working/playing continuously! Thank you very much for the great input! Top work! ;-)
See, the drummers are the real musical geniuses. I completely stumbled across this video because I am setting my kit back up after years of it sitting in a corner. Interesting and fascinating video. My kit actually had a tom rack that it came with, and I couldn't figure out how to make the tom rack work and wound up mounting the toms on top of the bass drum. All this, because I thought I needed the bass drum straight out pointing north. This is sensible, pragmatic, practical and logical (I sound like a Rush song)! And I will put those toms on the stand and set it up this way!
Excellent Jim. I'm a new old drummer beginning drums today. I'm setting up like you have shown here as it makes sense. I'm using 8 and 10 Toms and a14 floor tom. This type of setup will allow me easily add more toms on my bass drum mount if i want. Great Vids man. Rock On.
Thank you Jim for the logical and practical way to set up a kit. I've been playing for over 54 years and, like stick grip, it's an area I'm always reavaluating.
I absolutely love having an ergonomic drum setup. I've been playing on a very comfortable setup for about a year now that's allowed me to play virtually anything and have a great balance. Open handed playing, left to right side movements, and comfortable seating allows me to play the best I can be to the music I play
That’s great. I myself am not a proponent of openhanded playing because I’m actually a fan of each of my hands having defined roles. My right hand is great at keeping time in my left hand is greater playing backbeats and ghost notes. And when it’s time to play a fill my right hand has already been playing on the down beats so it’s very natural to start there and go around the kit to the right hand direction with the flow of time uninterrupted. But obviously there are a lot of great and truly successful open handed players it’s just not my thing!
thanks! only problem was that my toms where mounted on my kick, but solved it by buying an extra snare stand. Put my 12" in the place of the 10" and the 10" in the new stand.
Always interesting to see someone else's approach on the subject! Personally, I prefer to face the kick towards the audience for visual purposes first, but also to allow the kick to project more, since most of the gigs that I play are unmiced.
Thanks Jim, this is a very good demonstration of drum set positions. Most drummers take this for granted. It gives you suggestions that make you think about what the most comfortable position is to perform.
I'm a beginner, in fact I haven't even played on my kit yet as I'm piecing it together now, and I saw one guys kit like this on reddit and it made sense to me right away. The rack toms over the kick drum have always seemed awkward to me. they should be directly in front of the snare and the whole setup for that matter should be like a command center with your throne at the helm. I'm researching now how to set up my kit like this before beginning to play. thanks for the video, there's not a lot of hits that come up when I search for "offset tom mounts" on youtube.
Good video Jim. Ergonomics is key. However, as always there's a trade off. In my case with the kick off axis like that compromises the floor tom(s) moving them more to a 4 o'clock/5 o'clock position. Also the 10" / first rack tom at the '11:00 position lends itself to the traditional grip player more. Totally agree with starting at the drum throne and closing eyes and visualizing where things should be most natural. THAT varies for all of us. Some fine players break the norm i.e. Jeff Porcaro played in high heeled cowboy boots yet sat very low!? Jack Gavin amazing player over the years has had some very untraditional setups. Ride cymbal high and vertical with a smaller crash directly under it. Wont even start with Billy Cobham's rig.. Good video, good subject, good discussion. Keep em coming
I pulled that extra rack tom out of the case it's been in for about 30 years and recently went from being a long time 4 piece player to 5 piece. I sought advice from a FB drummer's group and I'm happy to say that I ended up with pretty much this exact set up. It's actually easier for me to get around that it was on my 4 piece set up. It's nice to get validation from a solid, thoughtful pro.
Excellent video. If I might add one tip, that I give to my students, set your seat height once your bass drum and hihat are in place. When your feet are on the pedals they're a little bit higher than when you just sit with feet flat on the floor when the pedals are not in place yet.
Absolutely essential advice. A few more aspects that work well for me: - Placing the mid tom as close between snare and floor tom as your right leg allows. The resulting short distances make fast fills that much easier. May limit your ride cymbal placement options a bit though. - Low-hanging crash cymbals as opposed to 80s-style cymbals that require a ladder to set up. Way quicker and easier to reach. - Setting the hi-hat relatively high to increase clearance when crossing sticks. I do this only when I don't need to play the hi-hat with my snare hand, since the increased distance would make that harder. No problem, as it's a matter of only a few seconds to change between songs.
I think one point you are missing is that the ride cymbal placement has to be more important than tom placement. Our primary job as drummers is to keep time and the ride cymbal positioning really needs to take priority.
Thank you so much, I feels so vindicated! The amount of grief I've got for my entire career from people about how I set up my kit, with my bass drum and hi hat pointing out so that I can face forwards (I'm also the vocalist so I like to face the audience). .... I'll show them this now!
I literally had this same conversation this morning with a trumpet player that has turned into a part time drummer. I told him ergonomics was so important so that you could do a 3 or 4 hour gig and not be totally exhausted by having to contort yourself to look good to the audience. They won't care if your bass drum is square to the stage, they want to see the drummer moving and grooving
I’ve been setting up a single bass set like a double bass set, with the hihat exactly where a second bass drum pedal would be, for years. Many people thought it was weird.
Jim, funny that I just saw this. I recently wanted to give my traditional 5pc. kit a twist, and set it up like your red kit in the video. Despite over a month of working with it, it wouldn't fly with me, for several reasons. It hurt my aging hips (especially the right side), I couldn't get with having the toms on either side of the snare drum, and also, because I had more of a swing and follow through, it just made me play naturally LOUDER. Ultimately, I went back to the traditional 5-er, and made some positioning and height adjustments, including my throne, and that wound-up being what I was looking for.
Yeah I’ve always been about playing as ergonomically as possible. I play a four piece, but I’d say the biggest help is getting your toms off the bass drum. Like honestly it’s the best way to leave room for your ride cymbal.
Jim, you saved my life with this video over a year ago. My only question and issue i have is the best placement of HighHats. I find that it bumps close to the left tom and i struggle with perfect placement of everything.
Place the throne first, snare second, kick and hi hat third..when you do that it will be in the most comfortable spot and everything else is placed AROUND those instruments.
Thank you! 🙏 that really helped, I've been playing for a long time. Go figure! Haha. Your video was so helpful that I subscribed to your channel because of it. Thanks again.
This makes so much sense !! Only problem is if that you gotta get up n use backline after a band say at a festival and half a dozen bands to play after you they gonna hate you for messing everything up position wise mics mic stands cables n stuff everywhere.
People still criticize, and don't understand, Ringo's rooftop kit. The Ludwig Hollywood kit he uses in the Get Back sessions. But you're positioning yours in a very similar way
great to see this; in the early years of my playing, apart from when I used a BD pedal with a lateral swivel function, I always had the pedal at an angle to my foreleg; subsequently I ended up with knee pain years on. For many years I've used the set up where my feet land, maintaining a straight line, feels better and healthier. I think players like Buddy R had a good sense of ergonomics, especially having everything very close; though I don't know how he played with the BD directly in front of him and of course he slouched, ending up with severe back problems later in life, not that stopped him of course. I see very few players with the set up described though. I've tried the BD directly in front and the result is a twisted spine, not good.
Good to see drum information on YT. Just wanted to say , I think your correct about snare height but there a guys 7 and 1/2 foot tall and there's some like me that are shorties nearly 5 foot. So my snare stand has to go low as possible using 14x8 FF Pearl snare ??? I can't have my stand as high as you have yours in other words. I will definitely be trying what you recommend because it's not the first time I've heard this. I use the exact same set-up as you have set-up.
Jim, great video. I've watched it several times to replicate the same logic on my edrum set. Still something is not right manly with the toms position. Can you provide a photo from above on how the setup should look like ? Or even better - do a similar video using an edrum kit 🙂 Thanks
Jim do you have a schematic or overhead pic that would show ideal location for each piece? I’m new to drumming and need to correctly set height of each piece- somewhat tough to see with a straight camera shot. Thanks- love the vid!
You can see it on some photos and videos on my Instagram account. But the important thing is to listen to what I was saying and following that.. It will help you a great deal!
I am a big fan of this ergonomic set up with the off-center bass drum, but it does not work well if you're also a fan of using two floor toms because it pushes the second floor tom too far back and away. Otherwise, I would set up your way more often. I do use it with one floor tom, but I love the 14-16-18-24 configuration the most.
I’m gonna blow your mind here but if you are in a one rack, 2 floor situation it’s not really changing anything…it’s more a matter of the bass drum facing forward, or you facing forward. The other thing to consider is everyone with a double bass kit (which is the same orientation I use) has zero problems reaching a second floor tom. You wouldn’t either!!
@@jimrileymusic Glad that works for you, but that is not my experience.Turning the bass drum to the right necessarily pushes the 2 floor toms back, making the 2nd one harder to reach. Also have to change the position of the ride cymbal. Doesn't work for me. Works ok with just one floor tom, though - or move the 2nd floor tom to the left of the high hat as a workable compromise, not ideal. Thanks for the video and the reply. I appreciate your time.
Why would you want or need your toms flat?? For me, is all about putting the instruments in the spot where they easiest to play, not where they look cool! :-)
@@jimrileymusic woah, ez there, punchy. “flatter” is probably what I should have lead with. Obviously rim shotting toms isn’t preferable. However, on the flatter side of angles is what I aimed for. Not because it looks cool-that’s weird because I would think people would also feel much steeper angles would look more “rockin” cool. It’s because of efficiency and less wrist cocking. I found leveling out the attack was more efficient for me and thus that’s what guided the rest of my setup. Don’t forget, man - when it comes to drumming ergonomics, preference is king. Experimentation is paramount. Your reply is too defensive for proper instruction. I’m sure you’re a nice guy but…geez✌🏻
Now you have to twist farther right to play your floor tom. All you have to do is move snare to the right, and play your pedal like it’s the gas pedal in your car. Most drummers don’t have their right foot perfectly aligned with the footboard.
One of the reasons I like double bass kits. Your face in the audience in an ergonomically position, and it doesn’t look odd having one kick at an angle. Unfortunately most of the places I play are too small for my 2nd kick drum. That said, my body facing the crowd isn’t all that important to me, so I set up with my body angled slightly counter clockwise with my right foot and bass drum aimed at the crowd. And I’m OK with that.
Same. I would feel really uncomfortable facing the crowd. Would just be weird to me. I can face my kick in any direction and would still be comfortable. I don't need to face the crowd straight on.
i to set up the traditional way because thats all i ever saw......went to this offset bass drum set up, way better. and i also play open handed not cross handed as many do. many top drummers play this way. never knew that. i thought i was one of the few!
One problem with that setup: if you use traditional grip, the 10" (in this case) is oddly positioned and hard to hit without the hi-hat getting in the way.
Joseph Fertita great question!! Take a look at the offset double pedal!! The bottom line is your drumset should help you do job as a drummer not get in the way...you can take the double time mount off of your bass drum and simply put in the base of a cymbal stand.
Hi Jim thanks for sharing this video. I have been setting up my kit like this for a few years now because it definitely makes sense and is comfortable and easy to get around the kit. Now I've started recording drums with an engineer and he is totally against the idea, he says that you need to create a stereo image in the mics and he has made me set up the kit like the other set up e.g. (bass drum facing forward) now I've tried to argue my point that there are tonnes of other drummers out there who set up like us but because I'm new in the studio I've just gone with what makes the engineer happy. If you have some advice for me it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
anthony albert I do! Retain your set up but orient it where the kick drum is facing where ever he wants it! I have had engineers say they want the kick drum facing a certain place and I just turn my set up to accommodate. I record all the time like this including in big studios on hit records. There is no problem with the “stereo image.”
My kit has the bass drum forward facing the audience and I sit facing toward the bass player, who stands to my left and we are able to see one another and vibe together really well that way. Just sayin'.
I know little or nothing about drums. However, my brother Lennie was a drummer. And he was setting his drums up like this drummer is talking about...BACK IN THE 1950s. His bass drum never faced front and center. It was always on his right. Just like the one above. So, nothing new here!
