Duct support placement using Dynamo!

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In this tutorial I show how to build a script in order to automate the placement of a duct support/hanger system in a Revit MEP model using Dynamo! The tutorial also shows a technique for interpreting linked model elements using ray bouncing.
I hope you enjoy the session and learn something new! Feel free to comment any feedback/questions below, or follow my channel if you enjoyed this.
Learn more about Dynamo at;
primer.dynamobim.org/
Software used;
Autodesk Revit 2019: www.autodesk.com/products/rev...
Dynamo: dynamobim.org/
www.autodesk.com.au/products/...
Google Remote Desktop: remotedesktop.google.com/home
Flashback Express: www.flashbackrecorder.com/exp...
Hardware used;
Webcam: support.logitech.com/en_us/pr...
Laptop: laptopmedia.com/laptop-specs/...
Microphone: www.rode.com/microphones/nt-usb
Intro/Outro Music: www.purple-planet.com/

Опубликовано:

17 дек 2019

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Комментарии : 152

@jorgeanedez1687 3 дня назад

Can you help creat a similar line based hanger support script for 4 parallel piping with different system and with different sizes? Your video tutorials helped me a lot as a beginner in dynamo and has been a fan of your tutorials. Cheers!

@AussieBIMGuru 3 дня назад

Unfortunately beyond my experience at that point, but have a try and use dynamo forums as an active help resource where you get stuck.

@chethanmn6983 4 года назад

It's very use full and worth learning to save the time, thanks a lot for sharing.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

You're welcome!

@M33rk4t 4 года назад

Thank you so much!!! Awesome stuff! Lots to study here! Thanks again!

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

You're welcome Dinos!

@Praveen_Enzo 2 года назад

Great work.Thank You very much Mr.Aussie.

@AussieBIMGuru 2 года назад

You're welcome!

@couprog 10 месяцев назад

You are awesome, thank you for this professional video and thank you for every single moment you spent on it 👏👌

@AussieBIMGuru 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for the kind words, and you are welcome!

@chanyiuhing 2 года назад

your video is so informative. Thanks from Hong Kong

@AussieBIMGuru 2 года назад

You're welcome! Hope all is well on your side of the world.

@robertorecoaro8423 3 года назад

I am amazed at the skill you have with revit. It must have been many hours of study. Thanks for this video./Me sorprende la habilidad que usted tiene con revit. Deben haber sido muchas horas de esudio. Gracias por este video.

@AussieBIMGuru 3 года назад

Thanks! Yes almost 10 years of using revit now, but i began with 0 experience like we all do :)

@milenacasto8541 2 года назад

Really great job! thanks a lot , It helps me :)

@AussieBIMGuru 2 года назад

You're welcome!

@rkenna213 4 года назад

Excellent video..., more MEP would be great :)

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

Thanks Richard, a few videos lined up in the new year will deal with MEP or all round workflows. Not quite my field of expertise but many of my followers have helped give me some ideas

@rkenna213 4 года назад

@@AussieBIMGuru super videos, I look forward to them all

@eliabim 4 года назад

Thank you Master. I made it work

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

Nice work! Now you're a master too ;)

@eliabim 4 года назад

I edited some nodes so that I have some options to select ducts per level.

@TheLeonSilver 4 месяца назад

for those just want to get this script to work, just install 2018 BiMorph node, it worked for me. I also have tried with cable trays, it worked as well. however, after the last "List.Combine", try not to flatten the list, this way, the support will follow the bottom elevations of the cable trays that bend up and down. for some reasons, if flatten the list, the hanger supports will only follow one bottom elevation.

@TheLeonSilver 4 месяца назад

also, thank you Aussie BIM Guru for sharing this scipt, it is amazing, it helps us so much.

@AussieBIMGuru 3 месяца назад

Great tip, and yes I think that would make sense in that situation. I was a bit less experienced in Dynamo when I made this so my old videos sometimes take some awkward list management steps.

@archgyanrevit 4 года назад

Can you make a video or blog on what to look forward to in 2020? super excited!

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

I've scheduled a quick video on the 31st of this month to cover this briefly :) A bit more dynamo, some python, a new navisworks series and a surprise in march!

@carriux 3 года назад

Hi Aussie BIM Guru, the script worked perfectly, thanks. I was wondering if you have any ideas for hosting the support to the duct, so when you move the duct, the support moves with it, or in general if you know a way to locate hosted families.

@AussieBIMGuru 3 года назад

The best way to do this would be to build the support as a duct fitting. These typically move with the system.

@niojuri6057 4 года назад

Thank you so much! There's a lot to study what about pipe supports? It would be at same diameter and orientation than pipes How should I do it?

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

Similar to this workflow, but you could get the pipe centre elevation and diameter to place the support, then get the direction of the curve at that point (or normal + 90) for orientation

@tonyhoward6085 4 года назад

I have known about dynamo for a few years however moved into more of an engineering role over the last bit. Having moved back to a design engineering role (which I have always preferred) I am picking dynamo up again. I have found your tutorials to be very informative, not just in getting it done but also showing what is also potentially possible. Do you have any tips on understanding the nodes available as they seem to be very architecturally based, for obvious reason? Another question is how to best implement dynamo into a national company that doesn’t really understand what is required of its engineering staff due to perceived negativity to drafting?

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

Hi there Tony, I'm glad you're finding my channel and content helpful - and that the style of showing full workflow resonates with your needs. It might be worth viewing my 'learn dynamo' series as I focus more on nodes and less on workflow in these videos. A handy one is lesson 4; list management. Check out MEPover and Bimorph nodes for some helpful nodes related more closely to coordination and services. RE culture, if the company is not sold on BIM or CAD then dynamo will be a challenge. Consider if you are working with the right teams/firm if your passion is computation, and if it is, then start showcasing the potential benefits through business cases and live demos. Hope that helps!

@alvernepaiva3287 2 года назад

That Raybounce node is really helpful!!! Is there any version of him, but instead of checking a link, the node checks any geometry in a set distance and direction?

@AussieBIMGuru 2 года назад

I'd have a look at the 'RayBounce on Linked Model' node in the data shapes package, it has the ability to consider native and linked, or just linked in its fourth input.

@ballemistry950 4 года назад

Thank you so much! There's a lot to study What about cabletray supports?

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

Similar workflow. As long as theyre in connected systems it should almost be the same.

@bender06160 3 года назад

@@AussieBIMGuru there s no system for cable trays, maybe we can filter them by a shared parameter

@AussieBIMGuru 3 года назад

@@bender06160 yes in that case you would need something the runs have in common, or manual selection of connected trays to be supported.

@SiarheiSemashka Год назад

Nitpicking: 13:20 if the second block's parameter call "req_c" instead of "count", it lowers the chance to connect "count" variable from the left block

@AussieBIMGuru Год назад

They appear in order of where they appear in the codeblock. Count is maybe a reserved word since i made this video a few years ago now so could be that.

@vrbaac1641 3 года назад

hi ^^... why use a line based family (support) specifically for this workflow? thank you very much... very awesome tutorial ^^

@AussieBIMGuru 3 года назад

In this case i use line based as the family is best defined by its two points of support. Whilst it may sometimes be centred upon a duct run it isn't always necessarily. I go on to use dynamo to place these using reference curves also, which are much easier placed if line based.

@Fun_Masters64 2 года назад

hi Aussie.. you re really Guru, appreciate your work. can you please help me out to work out support for structural elements in same model, instead of linked model.

@AussieBIMGuru 2 года назад

If in the same model you could use a raybounce from the data shapes package instead - this has the option to use nonlinked elements instead

@jimmychan4868 4 года назад

Hi, i don't know why have some error in my node, such as Curve.PointAtSegmentLength. however can you in case have time to teach how to solve placing opening for mep service cross the wall by using dynamo. Thank you so much!

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

Follow the warnings back to where they first occur and try to find any 'nulls'. I have a video on penetrations in walls here; ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-o77lLfyQm30.html Springnodes have nodes for floor openings. I'll probably make a video on this eventually.

@carmineaucello3246 Год назад

Hi Gavin this is a super usuful script. Many thanks for it. Very complicated to understand but I'll get it one day hopefully! Just one question: I get the hanger channel's Support height up to 973836.0. Not sure why? Hence I loose completely the vertical hangers. Potentially the thing comes from the clash node Code block warning: "List.GetItemAtIndex operation failed. Index was out of range. Must be non-negative and lenn than the size of the collection. Paramter name:index". Not sure what value this warning refer to? Many thanks really appreciated!

@AussieBIMGuru Год назад

It's hard to say but my best guess is it could relate to imperial vs metric units, or the ray bounce wasn't successful and reached too far beyond the model. Cross check that the height number being provided is logical in Dynamo and if not look back through the data to see where it might be coming from.

@OdiaUTT 3 года назад

Great video. I work with racks of pipes so to replicate this may be different. I have three concerns. 1) how will the workflow be if the pipe racks are on different systems? 2) eliminating vertical pipes/ducts 3) consideration for insulation - I guess when we place the family we can reduce the support height by minus the insulation thickness? Thanks in advance for your response. Fan from Canada 🍁

@AussieBIMGuru 3 года назад

In regards to your queries; 1. This is probably difficult to automate if pipes share racks, as eventually those runs would probably diverge apart. You could probably collect multiple systems and eliminate supports closer than a certain point apart using one of my nodes in Crumple (group by minimum separation). Pipes are also quite different to ducts in that you tend to run them in parallel, so required width and placement would be difficult to assess. 2. If you could get their location lines this would allow you to assess their propagation using the vector of the curve and its Z value. You could filter out all pipes with a Z value or 1 or thereabouts. 3. Exactly, you could obtain multiple parameters and add/subtract as needed.

@OdiaUTT 3 года назад

@@AussieBIMGuru thanks for your quick response.. you’re highly appreciated

@mohamedsamir8824 3 года назад

Dear sir, Great script i want to automate all duct support for every level i filter ducts by level but the the script duplicate more than one hanger at the same place

@AussieBIMGuru 3 года назад

It sounds like an issue with levels and lacing. This script is built to do 1 level at a time. Go back step by step looking at the data in each node, eventually you should be able to find where the list structure isn't correct.

@Thameem63 10 месяцев назад

Hi Appreciate the work and i it helps me to learn dynamo script little. When I have tried to run your script. List.GetItemAtIndex operation failed. Index was out of range. Must be non-negative and lenn than the size of the collection. Paramter name:index". I am facing this error.

@AussieBIMGuru 10 месяцев назад

Typically this means nothing that list matched what you were searching for. Its a fairly generic error but hopefully knowing what it means helps troubleshoot it.

@osamahashem1041 4 года назад

Hi ,really Great work , please can you tell me where i can find those custom nodes

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

The nodes you need are in packages at 1:40, all downloadable from the package manager within dynamo. Manage > search for a package

@osamahashem1041 4 года назад

@@AussieBIMGuru thanks

@minaelfar6350 9 месяцев назад

Hello ! I have tried this amazing script and it’s really helpful I just have problem when the duct offsets and change its level the supports will be in the lowest level and the high level duct end up with low level supports ? Do u have a solution for that ! Thanks in advance !❤️

@AussieBIMGuru 9 месяцев назад

The way I've set up this workflow the duct hangers only sit at one level I believe, to deal with offsets you'd need to adjust the workflow to check both the underside of duct from level and the offset up to slab overhead in two steps, then set both parameters this way.

@atnguyenthanh6802 3 года назад

Thank you for your useful sharing. Would you mind if sharing the supporting family. Cause i follow you to final step in node "Familyinstance.Bycurve" returns to"null". I don't know the reason why. Thanks for this video.

@AussieBIMGuru 3 года назад

Sure thing, it's on my github here: github.com/aussieBIMguru/Dynamo_Scripts/blob/master/ABG_201102_DynamoWallOpenings.dyn

@atnguyenthanh6802 3 года назад

@@AussieBIMGuru Thanks so much.

@minaelfar4652 9 месяцев назад

Thank For This Amazing video. However, When I use the duct system all elements in network custom node it doesn't get the elements in the mechanical system it gets me NULL ! What the problem here ??

@AussieBIMGuru 9 месяцев назад

My best guess is you may be using revit 2023+ and now have the IronPython2.7 package installed. Mepover depends on it now.

@mohamedabdelhafiz2397 4 года назад

is there anyway i can get the custom nodes you made ? , thanks

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

Sure can, they're in a custom package I'm making. I keep a copy on my github; github.com/aussieBIMguru/Crumple

@egmelaku Год назад

🙏Thanks for this helpful tutorial. Have you ever tried...? I want to change the calculation Method in Revit ...... (Path => 1. Systems(tab) -> 2. Mechanical Settings -> 3. Pipe Setting -> 4. Calculation -> 5. Flow(tab) -> 👉 6. Calculation Method ) ...... from "the 2012 International Plumbing Code (IPC) Table E103.3 (3)" #to my custom fixture flow rate/table. 👉 How would you advise me, please? 👉 Can I use Dynamo to change input/references like IPC Table E103.3 (3)? Thanks!

@AussieBIMGuru Год назад

Unfortunately I've got an architectural background so most of that goes right over my head! Maybe try the Dynamo forums for advice.

@newshunhk 2 года назад

Hi I can make it work, but once I select another duct to run the dynamo, the supporting hangers in previous duct disappear... how to make it permanent? or I need to open the dynamo script everytime?

@AussieBIMGuru 2 года назад

Run it in dynamo player.

@juancarlosarguedas607 4 года назад

Great Script.....I tried to follow up but something is wrong with the formula

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

Hrm I'll grab a look...

@MegaFahaaad 4 года назад

I want to learn dynamo from where can or learn the basic please help

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

Hi Fahad, the best places to begin are: Dynamo Primer: primer.dynamobim.org/ My learning series: ru-vid.com/group/PLBKwx9iS-Luk38UWL7gU9LCP_gojOu1qi There are various other series to learn Dynamo available, but I find they focus too much on geometry and too little on Revit suitable workflows. I also have a webinar on how to best begin your learning journey: campus.hexabim.com/bim/Getting-Started-with-Visual-Coding-Dynamo-Grasshopper-and-beyond-with-Gavin-Crump/

@maywaleed5639 6 месяцев назад

I use Revit 2021 and I couldn’t find LinkElement.ByRay node in the Bimorph package . Where else can I find it?

@AussieBIMGuru 6 месяцев назад

In the latest version it is called LinkElement.ByRayBounce.

@muhammedfasil.p3402 2 года назад

Ray bounce for the fix height.. the node starting to find the Z value showing error. Please help.

@AussieBIMGuru 2 года назад

Hard to say what the cause is. Reduce your data set down to a few objects and troubleshoot 1 or 2 at a time to see why they might not be raybouncing properly.

@ibironke_regina 2 года назад

The parameter values for "Bottom Elevation" and "Reference Level " are empty and this is clearly reflected in Revit. How can this error be corrected?

@AussieBIMGuru 2 года назад

I believe these are default parameters for ducts if you mean those, otherwise try out my hanger family on github.

@ramonleen3472 Год назад

Hi Aussie BIM Gure, the script worked perfectly except when I make a drop in elevation with the ducts than the duct support placed everything on the highest bottom elevation of the duct system. Do you have any idea how to solve this?

@AussieBIMGuru Год назад

For this particular case you may need to use another mesh ray at these points at the duct level down to find out the drop in addition to the mesh ray upward to find the structure. My workflow here assumes flat duct runs currently.

@tingyunmao8861 4 года назад

Hello, is the support family tyoes in your article convenient to share?thank you.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

I actually have a tutorial showing how to make the family here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IYHHrnDzMFE.html Good opportunity to learn, should take about 25 minutes in all.

@tingyunmao8861 4 года назад

@@AussieBIMGuruThanks for your help. I have tried, but there are still some mistakes. The details cannot be well controlled, but it is a great progress，I hope more electromechanical projects will be provided in the future. Thank you for sharing

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

@@tingyunmao8861 you're welcome! I'll have more mep workflows in the new year, typically using the sample models.

@tingyunmao8861 4 года назад

@@AussieBIMGuru That's great. Now the mechanical and electrical processing is mainly pipe fitting processing, which is particularly difficult. I saw the mepover node today, and I don't have a good idea

@shivamsundaram7082 4 года назад

Can you please make a script to place clevis hanger in slope pipe?

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

It would be a similar workflow to this, maybe have a try and see how you go :)

@shivamsundaram7082 4 года назад

@@AussieBIMGuru I will try and let you know if any problem occurs.

@TheLegendMythMan 4 года назад

Hi, great video and usefull in so many cases. But looking at the video it looks like you didn't achive the correct heights for fixings. In the first example the duct was fixed at the lowest point and in the second example it was all placed at the highest fixing point, as it looked like the fixing was inside the beam. I think you should go back and check the result, just to make sure.

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

You're right... I didn't quite notice it in the first test! I believe there is probably some finessing required in the clash detection node workflow, it looks like it set to the beam underside in a few cases vs slab. Hopefully the workflow enables others to explore and refine further, and thanks for paying such close attention! I'll cross check the methodology in january... it might be a lacing issue. No access to dynamo in my holidays unfortunately! I seem to recall the clashes were all being identified to the right point, so I think it will be in the difference calculations where I've missed a step.

@TheLegendMythMan 4 года назад

@@AussieBIMGuru The model you used are the HAVOC model provided with Revit?, if so I can have a try. Anyways you have a great holiday and see you again in 2020!

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

@@TheLegendMythMan thanks, have a great one too! Yes I've used the advanced sample projects for mep and structure. I had to adjust the levels to match, and the models dont quite match in plan, but close enough to allow testing.

@rteiberis Год назад

Hello, Mr. Guru, asking for help as the last straw, watched the video many times over, typed everything by hand AND downloaded the script from github along with the hanger .rfa and no matter what, the codeblock in the raybounce group returns "null" instead of the list of clash points. Tried running the script in a model with a linked structural, architectural models and tried runing the script on the revit sample project. Please help

@rteiberis Год назад

Edit, managed to make the supports extend to the element above, however it doesnt extend in the sample project file, only files with a linked ifc model. the problem im facing now is that some hangers extend beyond the slab, some inside of it. any tips?

@AussieBIMGuru Год назад

Hrm it sounds like an error with the raybounce node. I havent tested this workflow beyond revit 2020 so might be some changes in node behavior since i made this unfortunately. I'll try to revisit it on the channel eventually for revit 2023.

@sheaferravindran6668 2 года назад

list=DSCore.List.Flatten(ducts); list[0]; "Bottom Elevation"; "Reference Level"; after this code block when bottom elevation is connected to parameter name it is showing errors

@AussieBIMGuru 2 года назад

Make sure the previous lists have no null values, and that the parameter by that name exists in your family you are setting the value of the parameter to.

@samehhanna2258 4 года назад

I dont find Node ( duct system all elements in network )

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

Make sure you have the MEPover package installed and browse through it - the node name might be different depending on the version you are using.

@ahmedallam9733 3 года назад

@@AussieBIMGuru please i cant find MEPover package could you help me please

@AussieBIMGuru 3 года назад

@@ahmedallam9733 it is on the package manager in dynamo itself. If you cant access that it can be found here also; dynamopackages.com/#

@ateeqafzal5969 3 месяца назад

How to download the script

@AussieBIMGuru 3 месяца назад

I keep my scripts on github under the dynamo repo.

@tanhieunguyen2387 4 года назад

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

@REYNAES1 4 года назад

this would be fine but in fabrication mep

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

Similar workflow, but some different nodes would be required. You'd also need a fab part hanger which is harder to make than a revit family I think. Have a look at MEPover package.

@yanuar9093 Год назад

hello, i cant find get paramater valu by name. can you explain where i can find this node?

@AussieBIMGuru Год назад

This comes with dynamo and is under Revit > Elements in the library.

@yanuar9093 Год назад

@@AussieBIMGuru thanks,can i ask again? in my dynamo in node ByRayBounce have a warning "Warning: LinkElement.ByRayBounce expects argument type(s) (Autodesk.DesignScript.Geometry.Point, Autodesk.DesignScript.Geometry.Vector, Revit.Elements.Views.View3D, Revit.Elements.Category, bool), but was called with (Autodesk.DesignScript.Geometry.Point[], Autodesk.DesignScript.Geometry.Vector, Revit.Elements.Views.FloorPlanView, null, bool). " and my ByRayBounce not the same with your node in the video,my bolean have some option after direction,origin and 3D view,i have 5 option which is direction,origin,3D View,category,find nearest.

@AussieBIMGuru Год назад

@@yanuar9093 based on the warning it appears your view is a plan and a focal element hasnt been provided.

@yanuar9093 Год назад

when I connect the point (curve point) to the origin (byraybounce), a warning appears like that

@yanuar9093 Год назад

@@AussieBIMGuru can i know the version of Bimorphnodes in this video?

@vibhavarypatibandla4828 Год назад

How do start learning dynamo

@AussieBIMGuru Год назад

I recommend first going through dynamo primer then looking into taking a guided course if youre not ready to experiment. I offer one here if of interest which covers a lot of ground: courses.bimguru.education/courses/course-dynamo-4revit

@vibhavarypatibandla4828 Год назад

@@AussieBIMGuru I will rent it out once I am done learning revit..thanks!!

@vibhavarypatibandla4828 Год назад

And do you have any course for preparation of autodesk certification exam of revit in similar price range? I would like subscribe to it

@AussieBIMGuru Год назад

@@vibhavarypatibandla4828 unfortunately not. I havent taken the exam for years now, so am not 100% sure what it consists of these days. I'd check if firms actually want you to have it or not, most firms in Australia where I work don't care about it that much.

@vibhavarypatibandla4828 Год назад

@@AussieBIMGuru oh okay..I will surely rent out the dynamo course once I am done learning revit..thanks for the reply!

@ummarkhan561 Год назад

HI Aussie BIM Guru, Thank you for your useful sharing. I follow you to final step in node "Familyinstance.Bycurve" returns to"null". I Don't know what went wrong. Please Share me (ABG_GEN_Unistrut-Hanger_R20 )2019 Version Family.

@AussieBIMGuru Год назад

github.com/aussieBIMguru/Revit-Files/blob/master/Families/ABG_GEN_Unistrut-Hanger_R20.rfa

@ummarkhan561 Год назад

In this link this family is saved in later version. Can u please share me 2019 version.

@AussieBIMGuru Год назад

@@ummarkhan561 unfortunately I made the family in 2020 so cannot downgrade it.

@ummarkhan561 Год назад

In this tutorial, you used Revit 2019 version Family. I may see those family creation videos was also in R19 version here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IYHHrnDzMFE.html. And I want to thank you very much for this video. I really appreciate it.

@AussieBIMGuru Год назад

Yes I believe by the time I uploaded my files to github I had begun using Revit 2020 so had to upgrade my old sample files I had on record.

@relaxeabi6316 4 года назад

I am new its difficult and lengthy anybody can help me I want to learn dynmo I will pay

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

I should have a full course out in a month. It will be from beginner to intermediate and should be affordable as well. It will be structured and more organised than watching these types of tutorials so should hopefully help.

@relaxeabi6316 4 года назад

@@AussieBIMGuru can you help me I m beginner

@AussieBIMGuru 4 года назад

Check out my 'learn dynamo' series playlist. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-skRw3fXyTss.html

@AussieBIMGuru 2 года назад

My Dynamo course is now available :) courses.bimguru.education/courses/course-dynamo-4revit

@Karma-js3dl Год назад

Great video,i want to ask in node code block "Points = DSCore.List.GetItemAtIndex(clash@L2, 1);" appear warning (Warning: List.GetItemAtIndex operation failed. Index was out of range. Must be non-negative and less than the size of the collection. Parameter name: index) How i solved this warning? thanks

@AussieBIMGuru Год назад

Work back through the workflow and find out why there is no match found. A -1 result means there wasnt a match in the list available to index.