Dulux Dispute - Final Showdown! 

Big respect roger for asking the awkward questions that matter.

Fair play Roger, the extra cost for the trade stuff pays for these guys to explain to you why it's worth it.

It looks like Roger has been called in to meet the head master because his son James has been in trouble

Huge respect to Roger and team for doing this and not losing the cool, just speak, listen and show... big thumbs up!

In this episode we learn from Roger how to say. "What a load of crap" in polite way. Thank you, great work.

Still not going to use dulux because of the way it was handled from the start

Fair play to the Dulux guy at the start discussing the paints, very knowledgeable and professional and all whilst it being filmed.

Can't believe that the Dulux guy is called Matt Grey.

Why am I more interested in the Dulux scandal than Brexit, Covid, or any other issue/scandal happening currently!?!!!!

I'm still confused about the massive price hike. For instance, 5l of coloured weathershield at Homebase ( other DIY stores available ) is £30.. The paint Shed ( other online stores available ) Will mix you any colour Trade Weathershield for £44.33 inc VAT.. So, does the problem lie with the Dulux Trade centre that sold the paint. The Dulux guy did a lot to try and justify the huge differnce in price when it's obviously clearly possible to buy the Trade version for an extra £15 which is what James thought at the start of the saga...

Charging more for a trade product because it saves you time to apply does not justify charging the customer more if the ingredients cost are not significantly different

There is definitely a difrence but not 3 times the cost difrence

These dulux guys should be politicians.

Even the experts use the word "coverage" wrong. Coverage is measured in m2, and is used to calculate the area a specific amount of paint will cover. What he should be saying is opacity, which relates to the hiding power, an how well it hides the stuff beneath.

I think Roger you conducted yourself well, clear questioning, accepting answers but pushing for further information if required. Fair play fellas and keep this type of product comparison up, you have the clout and the backing from your subs, all to aid everybody from customers, trades and just the interested 3 rd party.

As some one who has completed multiple apprenticeships including nvq diploma level 2 and 3 in painting and decorating I can confirm a lot of bamf was used as a smoke screen in this video. Yes trade is better then retail but generally you will find your self putting on two coats of either regardless.

James was looking like someone watching there dad starting going off on one then thinking why did I tell dad about this

I respect that dulex and Alistair invited you up. They haven't covered themselves in glory before this but at least they're trying to be transparent. Still difficult to understand how a tin of mixed paint can cost £110 especially when that's charged against their most important customers but hey ho!

Thanks for doing that, incredibly patronising the way Dulux treat their retail customers, helps make it easy for those of use that know how to paint (but don't paint every day) to choose our paint supplier in future.

The fact you don’t need to hire scaffold for as long doesn’t mean they can up their profit margin!The difference in price should only be down to the ingredients and they didn’t really explain that in any detail

I never knew watching paint dry could be so interesting!

I’m not buying dulux again from this. The difference is negligible. Trade is priced to have a cut of business contract work charging huge numbers to organisations just paying the contract bill. A professional could deal with any paint regardless of consistency. They have admitted the colour is the same. The 15 year is rubbish because any paint would need recovering far sooner than 15... No thanks. Great video gents

Brilliant video guys. Good curve ball at the end with the ultimate protection. What I took from this is that whilst the trade paint is a better paint, and takes less labur to get a good finish, thus savings on final customer price, it seems dulux want to take advantage of this by charging a considerable amount more which is then passed on to the customer. I still dont understand the huge price hike in the trade paint.

Great product journalism Roger, you're like a dog with a bone, asking intuitive questions. Very informative on technique for application, the Dulux brand did very well playing ball. Roger this shows the respect your opinion has, well done buddy.

The Mrs thought it was "like watching paint dry". I thought it was a great piece. Top job Rog and James. And fair play to AkzoNobel - good response: not perfect, but as open as we could expect them to be I think. Keep doing what you do Skill Builder!

This is the best Johnstone’s advert I’ve ever seen 😂

I heard the word “slightly..” a lot from the people at Dulux, fair enough I get some products may be “better” than others but the difference in price is astonishing and they chose their words very carefully just like a politician

"So what paint would you use in future?" "Johnstone's" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Dulux has left the chat.

I have real difficulty selling Dulux Trade Paint to customers when Dulux have made their mixed Heritage paint available in Trade ONLY. In a small way it’s holding those who want Heritage colours to hostage. I’ve been selling paint for 20 years and I’ve been massively critical of Dulux for the last 4 years. I encourage customers to try Crown, an own brand like our own. Just explore. I’ve enjoyed the exposure this has brought but I may bring this vid to our Dulux Rep’s attention.

Great work Roger and James for continuing to follow this up and bring great content to your viewers!

The question I would have asked would have been What is more valuable to their business, trade or retail..

Really quality, unbiased reporting guys. Thoroughly enjoyed this one, especially asking the awkward questions, you definitely didn’t shy away from those 👍👍👍 you need a merch store or PayPal so we can give back to you 👍

Well done James to flag it up, and Roger to tell Dulux how it is. 👊🏻

8:00 so basically Deluxe are saying "We make it expensive as we assume you're just pass it on to the customer in your end bill. You'll be able to do the job quicker but you'll have to charge the customer more because we sell the trade paint for more. We can't even claim its cause of R&D costs because surely after a year or so of the sales, its covered the cost of R&D"

Interesting but Johnstones Trade does it for me thanks. There is a difference between trade and consumer but not 3 times as much

Nice one Roger taking no prisoners 👌🏼. What I took from this is the Trade with its mystery ingredients is overpriced . The retail isn’t very good and lastly ( and you should get t shirts with this on Rog) .....”don’t paint in the dark “ 😂🤣😂 . Excellent video thanks 👍🏼🧱

Watched it now, cheers for pointing me to this one... 👍 Having used both retail and trade dulux emulsion, I'd agree there is a difference, but not enough to always justify the price. During shortgages during lockdown, I had no choice but to use dulux retail, and I can honestly say, if I didnt know it was retail, I wouldn't have guessed...

Pushed into a corner they had to open the door to you guys, great questions, seems they are changing their sales practices to prevent further confrontations in the future rather than addressing the original question. I'm sure the paint is better but can't help feeling they didn't clarify enough and it's simply a matter of business whereby their mark-up on the trade and mixed paints are hugely better than the consumer variety. Think I'll be avoiding their products for my own use, particularly the trade variety.....top work Skillbuilder!

great vid why not do a Johnstone v Dulux paint covering I would love to know what is better

Does that stuff travel around in a security van ... yup that was the moment I spat my tea out

Neither covered perfectly with one coat (but the expensive Trade MAY have been better), but both would have covered perfectly with two coats. So not two coats v three or four.

I’m a decorator I use dulux trade paint regularly and have used the retail versions. There is a big price difference but I can vouch for the trade it’s worth every penny On a dark base colour you have to give it more coats with the retail I love watching your videos guys keep it up

Love how you weren’t blinded by the BS. Big respect.

So you can do it in 2 coats rather than 3. So 3 tubs of retail to 2 trade. 90 quid retail. 220 quid trade. Now the question you've got to ask yourself is, would it save 130 quid in labour for one less coat. My reckoning is by the time you've masked off, set yourself up etc. Probably not that much difference. If you're slapping that stuff on external walls, you can blaze through a tub fairly quickly. So unless you're charging a fortune for labour then it doesn't make much sense. And if you do the job quicker, why does deluxe get all the extra pennies?

brilliant - I am 8 minutes in and Dulux states the tradesman cliche "its not the parts its the labour" - the white powder is Titanium dioxide / cost around 2000U$ per ton

Excellent questioning and put in a clear and rational way. If Dulux really had the interests of the buyer at heart they would say on each tub what this paint does better or worse than its own similar products. By my maths, a painty using 2 tubs a day of the Trade has to work about twice as fast as he would using Retail to make it worthwhile spending the extra - if the durability of finish is the same. All too confusing for the buyer - which I suspect it what Dulux want to protect their margins. I've already gone elsewhere! Why - because I find other products work better and there is a single product available at a reasonable cost.

In normal circumstances, no quality paint should require 3 or 4 coats for proper coverage. Not having it.

1) Could James tells the difference between the two during painting? 2) Can the client tell the difference in the finish? If NO and NO then they are taking you for a ride.

Economics are at play. If Dulux mixes 1 million tubs of paint in a production line and delivers them to B&Q to then forget about them whilst picking up the £. Then this is far more profitable than constant product development, operating retail decorating centres (with property fees, employee fees etc) and selling far fewer units. IMO, the trade product is obviously not worth 3 times more however you’re paying for the building you walk into, constant product development and a slightly better product. IF there is a difference of one coat per job then this might be worth it but I’ve always found two coats of retail is okay. Delux are simply passing their sizeable operating costs for their trade range to the trade customer. The problem they have is that if they share the cost across both retail and trade ranges then they would most likely price themselves out of the very competitive retail market that focuses mostly on price.

Hi there, I would agree, buy Johnson, Pliolite stormshield, it's great, and if you are buying white or magnolia it is alot cheaper.

As a decorator with 20+ years experience we've always discussed Dulux as a brand over the years ( I prefer Johnstones BTW). Ive heard that Dulux has been very robust in making sure that they are the brand that is specified on building contracts and by architects etc, if a paint is specified on a job, you have to use it. Dulux can then set a higher price and make a bigger profit, B&Q for instance wouldn't even stock enough of a certain colour to carry out a large job anyway so you'd need to get it from a trade supplier. The trade paint is definitely better but its probably marked up more than its true value to maximise profits on a captive audience. They also reduce the price per unit as the size of the order increases, I guess that could be another reason the list price needs to start a bit higher.

Roger nailed it down without any fear at all... thanks once again Roger

The one thing I definitely wanted to see was the customer service issue being fixed, and it’s nice to see that they have now implemented a policy of stating the cost of a mixed paint upfront.

Don't know if they still do it, but about 10 years ago Dulux trade centres used to do price matching. I needed about 60 litres for an infinity cove in a photographic studio I was building. I found an online retailer doing their Diamond White for half the cost in the local trade centre, they matched the price, with no fuss at all.

DULUX pure brilliant white, walls and ceiling, silk. Paint instructions on 10L retail,; stir to ensure paint is completely mixed.. Tip:In hot environme td, thin 10% with water if necessary... Apply two coats. Instructions also mention thining for sealing. So by all accounts I should ignore these instructions as per the video because this is not a trade paint?

If you walk into a Dulux trade centre as cash sale, they will charge you top dollar, haggle and the price goes down. Bottom line is the professional range is what’s you should be paying for a decent job, the retail version is the dumbed down version for the non-professional it will give you a good finish with little skill. Retail is price sensitive and a competitive market place, the ingredient mix must reflect the lower price charged. Trade centres are hit and miss when it comes to pricing. I’m not a professional but have learnt over the years trade is best, not only for paint but tools, just ask the price first, centres should be transparent with pricing and not a price they make up on the spot. Great job with the vid.

They really needed to justify that price difference - trade secrets yes, but 3 times the price? Well done guys.

Dudes! Great video. James, that last comment killed me. LOL!

I think James' face at 29:45 pretty much sums up his thoughts...

Nice work lads. Its about time someone went to their door and asked these questions. Great effort.

Very interesting video! I've been a painter for a few years now, and there was some excellent information in there that I wish I'd known a while ago.

Well done Roger . Dulux did not convince me with their answers but fair play to them for meeting with you.

What a load of waffle, James looks like he still wants his money back. Dulux shame on you, caught with your pants down 🤑

Fair play to Dulux for finally taking on this issue properly. Their argument about the benefits to tradespeople of being in and out in a day rather than two days is plausible and easily tested in the market. If the product sells to the target market, which it must do, the price is justified regardless of ingredient/manufacturing cost. I look forward to seeing the better information about product use. I also hope they develop better consumer information regarding effective use of their products as well as just better trade information.

Will give Dulux some credit for actually inviting you in to their 'Academy' and trying to explain things, I liked the way the MD said they would make it clearer but still seemed to support the price. still not convinced me that their paint is worth the extra money and as a non account holder at Dulux I always seem to be looked down at when asking about their products, it's quite obvious I'm a decorator so why no discount?! other companies I use normally give me something off, I guess as 'Brand leader' they don't need people like me, fair enough.

Always get the shop to shake it twice for you so it's thoroughly mixed. I personally use a mixing paddle in a cordless for stiring prior to use. Thanks to both of you for the video and keeping them on their toes. Cheers

108 pounds for that tiny tub of paint.... the white powder in the tube better be cocaine.

if you get two walls and paint each one with each of these paints, 2 coats each, no one would ever be able to see the difference and if they did, it certainly wouldn't be worth 3x the price.

Did I just watch a man tell Rodger how to use a roller. F*** me! Nicely done gents.

Fair play to all parties including Dulux for participating in this and even the MD!

Shame they weren’t so responsive at the beginning .

What a snow job by Dulux! I've a small decorating company for over 35 years and have never heard so much bull. We've now moved to Crown and are impressed, especially their water based gloss paint. Will be using Crown from now on. Incidentally, as many noted, Johnstone is the best for external masonry.

Dulux haven't covered themselves well here, tried baffling with Bull, scaffolding cost and paint cost againt 3 to 4 coats, what a load of BULL.

Dear Dulux, Your trade paint is exorbitantly expensive (regardless of vendor) for the quality of finish and ease of use. It doesn't cut in the same colour as it rolls out. Thinning (which is always required) is a time consuming pain in the arse that negates any saving the theoretical extra coverage would provide. Wet film thickness retention on your trim paints is apalling. For these reasons I switched to Johnstones PPG for emulsion, Benjamin Moore for colour trim and Caparol for white trim some years back and haven't looked back. Regards A former DDC account holder

Excellent guys, well done. Respect to Dulux for having you in, but from my point didn't convince me enough as to the price difference over what you get. Although I suspect that it's all about profit which I'm sure they have modeled. Until market share or profits are effectived nothing will change.

Awesome roger. Genuinely going the extra mile you are. Thanks so much for doing this.

I'm from the states and I use sherwin williams. Their paint to regular consumers is probably some of the most expensive you can buy, but as a tradesman I get such a discount that I pay about the same walmart or home depot paint. It's confusing to me that the trades who use it all the time and buy the most paint get the shaft.

As CSA in a DIY shed, questions about the difference are quite popular, so thanks SB & Dulux for the info.

*Polt twist.* They put the trade paint in the retail bucket and the retail paint in the trade bucket. Nice one Roger, I've learned not to paint in the dark. The rest sounded like door salesman talk.

I would have been more convinced if they had let you buy the paint anonymously and then bring it in for testing. They could easily have added additional chemicals to the trade paint to make it require less coats - that doesn’t mean it’s going to be in the trade paint (unless they’ve now changed their formula). I recall you saying there was no difference between the two when you first compared them; was the consistency so different the first time? Sorry but £35 vs £108 is an exceptional price difference. The only way I would be remotely interested is if it only needed ONE coat. I loved how James just stood there soaking it all in and didn’t say a word. You’re comment at the end about Johnstons was brilliant 💥😂

No offence to decorators but with one exception, I can paint as well as or better any “professional” painter I have ever met. But I could never be able to make a living painting as I am too slow. I also waste time by preparing and sanding before painting and inbetween coats. I also use primers and undercoats. In finish terms that immediately puts me ahead of (with the one exception) the majority of painters I have employed. I have also managed to handle every paint that has come my way. What really pisses me off is the opacity of the manufacturers. Give the customer (I’m not a retailer; retailers sell things) the information and let the customer decide. As a customer I’m quite prepared to pay a premium price for a premium product but I refuse to pay premium prices for poor products. Well done to Dulux for listening and well done you guys for participating. Dulux, if you read this, please get rid of the guff around paint. Ditch the unobtainium and unicorn tears, simplify the product descriptions and educate us on the contents. If a paint is difficult to use, say so. Don’t describe it as “Trade” and also please clearly describe the comparitive benefits. Otherwise people like me will continue to buy Johnstone’s paint.

I’m still amazed the woman stated that visually you can’t see a difference on the house painting example. So if you can tell zero difference then why pay substantially more money for the trade version? I’m just a dulux retail user but now I’m made to feel I’m only qualified for the thick idiot paint that will splatter everywhere and takes multiple coats. We had our house redecorated two years and there was a mixture of dulux trade and retail used and it’s all still looking good and don’t see a major difference in it. Got a friend who owns a contractors company and they do lots of painting both residential and commercial and they don’t see much difference either in trade or retail and use a mixture of both. I’m an engineer though and don’t paint for a living. I did just buy 16 tubs of dulux for my new house lol. Now I’m feeling as a retail consumer that I’m just an underclass idiot and I deserve the drippage.

Basically they've realised that the cost of paint is such a small component in the cost of a decorating job that they've been able to slowly ratchet the price of the trade up over the years until the point we're at now which is obviously ridiculous. Well done for bringing up the point because it's something they would just keep increasing otherwise. If they could make a proper gloss that didn't yellow then I'm sure everyone would happily pay 5 times the cost. But on the emulsion the extra cost is impossible to justify, as they just proved in all their interviews

This all started from James being far too nice & polite & not asking prior to ordering a mix, the age old question... Price & availability?? Having said that, very interesting & informative content again from you guys. Well done & thankyou, it will come in handy in the future I'm sure

Not true the retail paint covers just as well but don’t go as far or as nice to apply not worth the 4-5x price increase. If the trade price was so realistically different and warrants it they would not give me the discount they do. Not knocking the paint, good paint even the retail he was trying to downgrade plus never heard any paint saying don’t stir you will ruin the paint. Plus already had the paints there prepared. First he said 3 x coats then said 4x when questioned

What the foreign lady said about pigments and their resistance to weather make sense. If I have a preformulated (colour) paint and it's a colour that has high resistance to fade, Delux can skip on the protection. However, in the trade shop, where they don't know the proportions you are going to be using they always have to use plenty of protection as they don't know the combination you are going to be using

In four hours this has had nearly 300 comments lol. People are rightly pissed, still funny but I always find Dulux expensive and always go for a more mid range priced product. Anyway good video and thanks. It did clear it up why it is more expensive but it's definitely not worth 3 x the price.

As a DIY er I have used both and I think it’s an opportunity in marketing to charge trade paints out at over double the retail paint. I’ve heard loads of decorators say they won’t use retail , but I feel it’s time to try the retail paints Dulux are ripping the trade decorators off. R and D costs are lower for trade paints as they expect much higher sales values

Remember not to just think of the can of paint on its own when comparing. the vast majority of the cost of the paint is the factory and machinery, transport, storage, container, etc. This is pretty much exactly the same for both the paints, yet one is three times the cost of the other. There will be a marginal difference in production costs and a bit of R&D differential too. But mainly, the difference is ingredients and there is no way one is so much more to produce. They couldn’t really say anything else when you were there because anything else would have been admitting a rip off. Yes, the trade is better and costs more to develop and make. But nothing like the increased margin on the final cost. You exposed them and they are keeping the recipe and ingredient difference ‘secret’ because they can’t defend it if they tell you the actual facts.

May not be relevant but, I always used a ‘bog standard ‘ paint as an undercoat on external walls to fill in the irregularities of render before using a quality topcoat such as Weathercoat etc.especially on new finishes, thus allowing the walls to suck this in to give a good key for the topcoat to give maximum protection regardless of how many coats required.

Builders merchants have displayed grossly inflated prices for all their products for years... My advice is to shop around if you can and haggle... !

Thanks Roger. On balance, I am still not convinced that a price three times that of a retail equivalent can justify in any way the extra advantages of trade product. If a trade product can do a job in 2 coats and a retail version maybe requiring 3 coats then trade should be no more than 1/3 extra than the retail product. However, one would expect the trade price to represent a discount to the tradesperson compared to what a home DIYer can buy.

At the end of the day it's up to the buyer to decide if a product is worth buying at a certain price or not. The problem with this product is that there is no real attempt to explain the differences on the product containers.

Three or four coats? It doesnt matter if you're merely a consumer and not in the trade, painting the same wall four times is taking the p*ss. How about Dulux just make the trade paint, the proper paint, in bulk, eliminating the MD's excuse about bulk production, and let the customers worry about whether they have the skill to handle it. Don't try and create a product to make up for a customers lack of skill

Surely if the weathershield ultimate protection has all the benefits of the trade, But just doesn't cover as well? The £44 price tag compared to the £108 of the trade is still an insult to any trade painter!! Not only that but its making the trade painter look like a rip off merchant. I'd doubt the trade paint is 2.5 times better that the new Weather shield Ultimate??

A few years back i was on the phone to there teck help line, over there oil based Rosewood varnish, they had stopped making all oil based ranges, and the water based was a diferent colour, not even close, more like brown paint, I have been self employed builder since 1978, and I had always used that range, but in the last few years I have had to use Sikans oil varnish, as its a close colour match, and as a closing word on the matter with varnish gloss or under coats I will only ever use oil based products.

Damp cloth to wipe away your tears, :) nice one Rog

Glad I’ve seen this. A slight difference in price is understandable, but not the huge difference they’re asking for.

The trade paint is a bit better , but its not worth the hefty price !!! and most customers would not pay the extra

I was hoping the difference would be sorted . However with reference to the don't stir and we recommend you use it as it is regarding the retail paint. The instructions on the tin / tub clearly state " Stir to ensure paint is completely mixed" !!! So do I stir it or not, or buy the trade instead?