DUNE Double Bill! Dune Part 1 + Part 2 Movie Reaction and Discussion 

Man 5 hours straight? That’s tough but I remember myself watching LoTR movies straight for 8 hours+ 😂

If they’re using lasguns to take out the Harkonnen spice harvester, it’s absolutely vital that they not hit a shield. If you hit a shield with a lasgun it creates a feedback that results in a nuclear bomb-sized explosion at both ends. It would be suicide for everyone involved. The ornithopter had to be taken out first because it was shielded. Even accidentally hitting that shield would be a death sentence. When riding the sandworm, the flesh under the scales is sensitive. So the worm orients itself to keep it away from the sand.

ok so some lore answerers from someone currently on book 3 (No plot spoilers past book 1) -the Bene Geserit can control some cellular functions of their bodies as part of their training, including picking a male or female sperm -in the book Jessica bore Paul because Leto wanted a son, and she loved him more than the Bene Geserit intended and so capitulated -Gurney was reading from the Orange Catholic Bible, a new bible written in the future by a collection of religious scholars throughout earth after the machines were defeated. It includes the new commandment "thou shalt not make machines in the image of man's mind" A little tangent on bagpipes. The director Dennis Villeneuve said he thought the Atreides home planet should be a lot like the wet and cloudy british isles, and by extension the country of Scotland, but in the books they are alluded to being the descendants of a greek dynasty that traces their roots back to the heroes of the Trojan War, and Caladan was described as being more like Southeast asia in climate and crop. Despite this the bagpipe choice in the movie kind of makes sense because the bagpipe didn't actually originate in Scotland, contrary to popular belief but indeed seems to be a innovative offshoot of the ancient Greek Aulos developed in Roman Spain (where it can still be heard in Galicia). -The Kwizats Haderach and the Lisan al-Gaib are two different chosen one prophecies, both are different in nature but one ultimately originates from the other. The Kwizats Haderach is meant to be less of a religious chosen one and more of the apex of the Bene Geserit's breeding program, the "goal" of it if you will, whilst the Lisan al-Gaib is meant to be a religious leader for the Fremen, however it is alluded to both in the movie and in the book that this prophecy was planted as propaganda on Arrakis a long time ago by the Bene Geserit so that the people of Dune would accept their messiah. -The hand of God is just a little interesting quirk of the lore, no real history, just a cool looking moon in the sky with an implied history -The Voice only works on people, which is a nasty implication on what that thing was in the Baron's keep, and what horrors it had been through (it only exist in the movie though) -The Sardukar's planet; Salusa Secundus is essentially space Australia to the Space British Empire if that makes any sense, criminals and enemies of the state are sent their to suffer, and then once they've fought to survive enough that they've become strong they are offered imperial luxuries to become the Emperor's soldier fanatics. They don't say any of this in the movies but the sacrificial ritual really conveys the point of it. ok so this is a nitpick from me but I liked the scene where they were trying to use the voice in the ornithopter in the book better, because instead of being so blunt as "REMOVE HER GAG" and "GIVE ME THE KNIFE" she plays into the fact that they want to r*pe her by using the voice while saying "you don't have to fight over me" making them kill each other, I just think that's better writing, and the voice was always meant to be more subtle. -when Jessica said "careful" she wasn't talking about the power getting to his head, she was warning him to manipulate Liet with the right words and the right timing to convince her (him in the books) "Paul Atreides must die for Kwizats Harderach to rise" was not a line in the book but if I had to guess it means Paul as his own person, uninfluenced by his terrible purpose will go away to be replaced by Muad'Dib (which since you've seen both of them isn't a spoiler) -Shai-Hulud means all sand worms, but she calls it "great" because they are seen as avatars of God in Fremen religion -Stilgar is Naib of Sietch Tabr which means he's essentially the communal leader of that Sietch -49:58 no they could not help take down the ornithopter, because when lasguns shoot shields, both ends explode like mini nukes, why then are the Harkonnens and their tech (besides the ornithopter) not using shields then? because they attract the worms far faster and more aggressively -the critique is NOT white saviorism, in fact that is gross disservice to the books message, it is a critique of all messianic and/or charismatic leaders regardless of race or sex. The author Frank Herbert once said that all charismatic leaders should come with a label "may be dangerous for your health". -the bull symbolism is in my take a symbol for what Leto did, which is essentially make the same mistake his father did on a grander scale and with better intentions. Paulus, Leto's father and Paul's grandfather died in playing Matador to a bull's horns, in the same way Leto died thinking he could 'dodge' the bull that was Arrakis, but it impaled him in the end too. As for the Bene Geserit and Anti-semitism, even though I knew Kwizats Haderach was based on hebrew, I always took it as because they are a religious institution (at least to outsiders) and so hebrew being God's language... I mean most of their inspiration seems to be Catholic nuns, considering names like Helen Gaius Mohiram (not very hebrew) and the fact I'm pretty sure women can't be priest in Judaism... As for the nukes, The Great Convention in the Empire bans the use of Nukes on people, so Paul launched them at the mountains to make a gap for the worms, so that the great houses wouldn't turn on him immediately after he won in fear of interstellar nuclear Armageddon (which in the books they capitulate to Paul's ascendancy but he Jihad rages anyway, fueled more by religion than politics). Not sure about the radiation though, I assume the terrible wind of Arrakis would blow it away sooner than on Earth.

I like that there are opposing factions of believers and nonbelievers of the Bene Gesserit prophecy legends within the Fremen. Feels very realistic. I also like the timeless feeling of the world design where the settings feels both futuristic and ancient at the same time. When paired with Denis' attention to nuance and detail, this movie rocks.

One small detail that was left out from the book was that it implied that it was the year 10161. It left out the AG (After Guild). It's more like 20161 AD.

49:54 The films don't explain this but the laser weapons and shields in the dune universe have a very violent reaction upon contact, as in blow up everything around it including your own fighters violent. It doesn't happen every time but there's enough of a risk that laser weapons are not used against shields as you could easily end up wiping out your own army.

I wouldn't normally think on this sort of stuff, but since Denis has said that he hates dialogue, we have to look at character choices and actions. Rabban: big guy who is brutal and screams about 70% of the time. He's shown that he's not smart, not strategic, not political. He is brute force, at least he thinks he is. He's big and he yells and because he's been protected and in a privileged position by his uncle the Baron Harkonnen, he's enjoyed access and power and who knows what else. Now he faces an adversary that is smart, strategic, and subtle. And he crumbles, as he would. With no understanding or awareness come no victories. The credit goes to Frank Herbert but thanks to Denis for underscoring that.

Yes there is a Bible. It’s called the Orange Catholic Bible.

23:16 It is the pitch of your voice that commands you. Much like you would use a certain tone of voice on your dog to get him to stop eating garbage. You order the dog obeys. You give someone a command in the voice and they obey. This is not psychic. It is a skill of the Bene Gesserit have refined over thousands of years. It is a skill that can be taught and basically unlocks people's willingness to obey. You can only be used on one person at a time. 26:27 seeing the future changes it. If you foresaw that going out for groceries would get you killed in a car accident would you go out for groceries? So every time Paul has a vision his future changes. Sometimes the changes are minor sometimes they're major. 1:37:08 the Bene Gesserit designed the legend of the Lisan al-Gaib to match the predicted powers of the Kwisatz Haderach on many planets. But think about it if they controlled the Lisan al-Gaib they could control the people of Dune and have control of the spice. Plans within plans.

I call the guys with the “weird heads” Feyd’s picadors. Chani’s prophetic “Desert Spring” name pun is like the Birnam Wood metaphor in Macbeth. Virgil’s Dido and Aeneas are my model for appreciating Paul and Chani.

the baby is sentient because of the water of life

Some info on the factions of dune u have questions about: The Bene Gesserit aren’t based on Jewish people, they don’t have any direct historical inspirations, but their name is derived from the Jesuits. However they are an atheistic non religious political organization of all female members, they don’t follow any religion, but they do manufacture them for mass control of populations. They have a planet as their headquarters known as “Chapterhouse” which we won’t see till like the book 5 adaptation if it ever happens. The Fremen are based on Bedouin tribes of Arabia and Egyptians cultures from the desert(not the Nile valley). Arrakis is not a Chakobsa word(fremen language), it’s the name given to the planet by the imperium. All the inhabitants of arrakis are not fremen, they are a specific culture that lives in the seitches. Majority of the inhabitants are the Arakeen. The Atreides are inspired from Greek culture, they aren’t Scottish. The Harkonnens are inspired from Scandinavian culture (the etymology of the name is Norwegian and related to bulls which is symbolic of how the Atreides Duke Paulus, who is Leto’s father was killed by a bull), which is actually one of the reasons why Stellan Skarsgard was cast as the Baron. The Imperial House is House Corrino, the emperor is Shaddam IV Corrino. The planet he lives on is Kaitain but that is a paradise planet that the emperor uses, it’s not the actual ancestral planet of House Corrino, that is Selusa Secundus which we see in the first movie when v are introduced to the Sardukar with the throat singing. It’s a hellish world just like Arrakis and raises tough people and warriors which are the strongest army in the universe, that’s why house Corrino has the strongest army( lmao minus the fremen, now Paul has the strongest army because the main competition of the Sardukar are the fremen). After the events of Dune 2 in the books the emperor is dethroned and exiled to Selusa Secundus, and the imperial seat is moved to Arrakis with Paul as the emperor. This is very controversial because Arrakis is the most important planet in the universe, that’s why the great houses and the emperors have come to an agreement that the emperor can’t directly control the planet but can only give it to one of the houses as their fief. This is to make sure that the emperor isn’t too powerful and cannot overpower the great houses by cutting off their spice supply. That’s why the great houses don’t ever try to take military action against Arrakis, and why there are no satellites over Arrakis, because the spice supply is too important and shouldn’t be made more volatile, and the stewardship of Arrakis by any house cannot be permanent and cannot be consolidated, the contract and fiefdom is shuffled overtime. It’s like a handshake agreement. But Paul is breaking that contract by making himself emperor ON ARRAKIS. That would make him far too powerful, way more powerful than the Corrino emperors and the great houses would be at his mercy. That’s why they refuse to honor his ascendancy. There’s actual political logic behind it.

Feyd Rautha WAS Dune! I loved how they set him up like Gladiator.

The Kwisatz Haderach is a very real product of the Bene Gesserit breeding program and is not the same as the Mahdi/Lisan al Gaib (a "false messiah/prophet" figure). The Bene Gesserit planted the prophecy about the Mahdi/Lisan al-Gaib. Part 2 changed Chani's character from the books.

They are called mentats the human computer.

1:09:41 I don’t think he’s embracing his power I think he’s actually sacrificing so he can see more and help the fremen, so chani doesn’t get burnt to death because he can predict it and that no more fremen shelters and sacred rivers are destroyed.

I'd say it's probable that 99.9% of the tech *is* supposed to be analogue. The IXians do probably slip some computers into some stuff when the Guild isn't looking, but for something like an ornithopter, yeah, it's supposed to be hyper advanced analogue tech.

22:42 The Atreides strategy for dealing with a potential attack from the Harkonnens took into account that nothing mattered more to the Baron than money. Unfortunately there was one thing that matters to him more: Killing the Atreides. In the book Thufir Hawat (Stephen Henderson) does a mentat calculation on the number of soldiers and ships that the Harkonnens had brought for their attack on Arrakis. Remember that the Harkonnens had held Arrakis under fief for 80 years, and this had made them more wealthy than the Emperor of the universe. He calculates that this one attack cost the Harkonnens as much wealth as would be generated by Arrakis spice mining over the course of 50 years. So what is the Baron's plans for what comes after? Anything other than killing the Atreides is evidently secondary to that primary goal.

11:53 no there is no computing at all. Everything is analog. You can do a lot using analog computers sufficiently advanced. They had analog gunnery computers on battleships in World War II. And they worked well enough. We just never developed the technology because we now have digital computers. 14:23 The voice only works on people who understand you. That's why the deaf guy was in the 'thopter When they took them to the desert. It is a practiced way of controlling people much like using strong language on your dog to make him obey you. It is a technique and has nothing to do with psychic power. There are no psychic powers even seeing the future is actually an untapped potential of the human mind. The tone and pitch of your voice is specially tuned to an individual. You can only control one person at a time.

- One of the reason the Emperor wanted the involvement of the Harkonnen against the Atreides was because bringing an army to Arrakis would cost the Baron 60 years of spice production (the Spacing Guild being as greedy as they are), and therefore reducing his fortune by a great deal. This way not only did he got rid of the Atreides, he also weakened the Harkonnens, 'cause the Emperor didn't like the Baron being richer than him. - Gurney was reading the Orange Catholic Bible. Don't be fooled by the name, it's acutally a fusion of nearly every religion in human history. - House Atreides goes back to ancient greek times with King Atreus, and more prominently King Agamemnon. And no joke, ancient Greeks had bagpipes (the "askaulos"). - The Kwizats Haderach is the planned genetic creation of a "chosen one". The Lisan al-Gaib is a manufactured prophecy that corresponds to the arrival of the Kwizats Haderach in order to control primitive people. Paul is fufilling things that were known he would be capable of doing, he is artifically making the prophecy "real". - The Baron and Leto aren't actual cousin, it's royalty speech. Both are servants of the Emperor, so they are cousins in that sense. - Paul's innocence must be shed (Paul Atreides, the boy, must die) for the Kwizats Haderach to rise (Paul, the man, and his destiny). It's a metaphorical death. - Shai-hulud is a general name for the worms, and soo is the Maker or makers. - Alia, the unborn baby sister, has indeed become a Reverend Mother and achieved consciousness still in utero. It's a big no-no in Bene Gesserit culture and subcultures, because they are extremely susceptible to possession by a dominant ego-memory (the personification of a past ancestor's memory). Foreshadowing for Children of Dune. - You can't use a laser against a shield, it causes a chain reaction that culminates in a small atomic explosion killing the people at both ends. - Jessica didn't know her heritage, she was introduced into the Bene Gesserit order nearly from birth. Not even the Baron knows anything of what became of her, even less so that she would later be purchased by Leto to become his concubine. You can be sure that was more of the Bene Gesserit's doing to cross different Houses' bloodlines. - The kerchief has a double meaning. In the book, worn on the head means married with child. Worn on the arm means mourning a loved one. In the movie, the kerchief symbolizes Chani's love for Paul. So when she takes it down to her arm, it's not only so we can tell her apart from the others during the battle, but also her represents the grief she's feelings for her love. - Paul seem to think the Holy War is the lesser evil, but it's entirely vague if it really is. Of course, an alternative would be to let the Fremen be massacred to the very last one, but Paul doesn't want that. He also saw that he could achieve his vengeance against the Baron, and free Arrakis and the Fremen in this one moment in time. Doing so, however, would requiring schackling the Fremen to religious fanatism, the same fanatism that will be the drive behind the Holy War, to spread the religion of the one true God, Muad'Dib. There's no good scenario to pick from. That is the tragedy Paul is faced with, and the reason why he's no fully a villain. Knowing the future is a curse. He accepted this truth to help the Fremen, but he won't take it all the way. Someone ELSE with make that sacrifice.

Atomic bombs are only radio active because of the fission bomb used to explode the hydrogen bomb. If you can blow the hydrogen bomb without it then it would be far less radio active. More devastating then a atomic bomb would be an anti-matter bomb. The yield would be staggeringly higher.

Just a note - and this isn't a spoiler, but nerdy prequel book stuff - Arrakis was never a lush, green planet. It's not a matter of restoring it but of changing it, potentially with disastrous consequences for their society's entire economy and ability to even travel. Small wonder the other Great Houses refuse to bow down, eh?

1:37:48 my belief about the “chosen one”, is that kwisatz hederac and the medhi is the same thing “chosen one”. My belief is that the bene gesserit mutate the same one belief of the kwisatz hederac to fit in with the religion of any specific world. They need to increase the chance of finding the one so I imagine they need their universal religion to be taken in by the different cultures and better to warp it slightly on each world so it fits more. So I think pay really is the chosen one they’ve been looking for and his planet was always meant to be arrackas. That’s why there is such emphasises on his first step on the planet being a thump and the fact he was alwasy dreaming of this world before he even knew he was coming here. I can’t wait for the 3rd movie.

Bagpipes were over a huge swath of Europe, not just Scotland. For example, they are also in Greece.

Will reacted to both in a row! Stilgar: LISAN AL-GAIB!

SUPER AWESOME ❤

Came here when you watched rrr. Really love how you take effort to understand the art ❤

I know not everyone is interested in reading the books, although they're extremely good and well worth reading, so I'd recommend videos on YT that explain all the things that had to necessarily be left out of the movies, such as background on the Spacing Guild, the Bene Gesserit, Mentats the ecology and religion of Dune, the sandworms... While I understand the need to pare down the story for the movie format, personally, I would have watched a ten hour movie just on the first book. Quinn's Ideas is my favorite channel for Dune videos (he's got some great 3 Body Problem vidoes as well) because he does a deep dive into the Dune universe. But Nerd Cookies and The Lorebrarians are also great channels for Dune content.

its not about white savior, but about false mesiah or dark mesia and how easy is for people to follow dictators.

u dont shoot lazer at a shield, as it would result in sub-atomic fusion, and a nuclear explosion...

LISAN AL GAIB 🙌🔥🍻

I think your thoughts at the end were quite perceptive. I think you should be wary of reading this as a story about colonialism (it is a theme and this adaption certainly leans into it; no doubt because that's quite trendy atm) but it is more about the nature of hiererchy, the destiny of humanity, how to effect change and being trapped by circumstance/history/foresight.

As others have said, it's not critique on white savior but a cautionary tale against messiahs and how religion is used to control people. In the end, Paul uses the fremen to his own purposes and we see they even lose their way (burning the bodies of their enemies instead of recuperating their water). But I really love what you said about these movies. I can't resist to give you a list of great movies that I think are worth a reaction. By Juan Antonio Bayona : el orfanato, a monster calls, the impossible The shape of water by Guillermo del Toro Dangerous liaisons by Stephen Frears The hours by Stephen Daldry By Alejandro Amenabar : Mar adentro, the others, Agora Changeling by Clint Eastwood The descent by Neil Marshall Black swan by Darren Aronofsky Curse of the golden flower by Zhang Yimou El hoyo by Galder Gaztelu-Urrutia Polisse by Maiwenn 127 hours by Danny Boyle Joker by Todd Phillips Gerald's game by Mike Flanagan The death of Stalin by Armando Iannucci Annihilation by Alex Garland The machinist by Brad Anderson Thelma and Louise by Ridley Scott Still Alice and Room by Wash Westmoreland Arrival by Denis Villeneuve Pride by Matthew Warchus Triangle by Christopher Smith Gravity and Children of men by Alfonso Cuaron District 9 by Neill Blomkamp Gattaca by Andrew Nicoll V for Vendetta by James McTeigue Titanic by James Cameron Crouching tiger hidden dragon by Ang Lee The dark knight trilogy and Interstellar by Christopher Nolan Take shelter by Jeff Nichols Mysterious skin by Greg Araki The way back by Peter Weir The curious case of Benjamin Button by David Fincher Chicago by Rob Marshall Alexander by Oliver Stone The green mile by Frank Darabont And maybe my favorite: Cloud atlas by the Wachowskis I know it's a lot and you probably already watched some of these but try some, you won't regret it.

Paul is a flawed Quizatz Haderach, one generation short. Later in the book series there is another, perfect one.

Yes Paul can see all possible futures, how some parts he can't control because they are the result of others' choices, but he can choose some things & he sees what will happen from his choices too. That vision of Chani stabbing him was about how when the time came & she gave him the knife, he would have to kill his opponent, but in killing his opponent he kills his own childhood innocence & becomes a man on the path to being the Messiah. They don't say it in the movie but Paul is only the equivalent of 16 going on 17 when the story starts, not a young adult & why though he's had private teaching he has not done actual military service yet. Chani is in fact an adult of like 20-21 when they meet & why she at 1st views him as still a child, like how Stillgar calls him a boy that can still learn their ways. She looked in his eyes & saw innocence, the lack of real world fighting experience & reticence to kill even though he wants to stand up for his mom, which is why she thought he would die. But then during the fight he hesitates, giving his opponent an out. The others think he's weak at 1st, but she realizes he's just postponing doing something he doesn't want to do, not something he can't do, that he can see a way of resolution without fighting to the death as Fremen ways do due to the generations of harsh life they've had, & that makes him wiser than she thought. Then when he's forced to kill or be killed, she sees the change in his eyes after the fight. She understands his response to her offer of the knife. She realised he knew he wouldn't die physically in the fight, but change spiritually if forced to kill. Then she actually feels sorry for him. After that she is open to knowing him as a person, giving him a chance because she now knows that there is more wisdom in his young mind than she thought, even though she is smart enough to understand how the religious prophecies are manipulative. His not wanting to fight wasn't a weakness, it was his respect for all people taught to him by his father. Back to his power: The Bene Geserit didn't understand themselves how his ability to see would work, since for them it only happens under unfluence of the poisoned water & has limits. They bred their Messiah with the intention to use him to bring forth their ideal universe with them in control, him being controlled by their "wise" plan. At the beginning Jessica falls to pushing him on that path because she really loves him, being her son & son of the man she loved, so she wants to guarantee his survival. But she also falls back into habit from her training to carry out Bene Geserit plans. She doesn't understand how pushing him to be Messiah really hurts him, how her helping to manipulate his life makes him resent her. Chani on the other hand always puts Paul 1st. Her love is not selfish & she hates him being pushed into the Messiah role because she knows it's not what he really wants in his heart. She does get temporarily mad at him, but in the end she really is mad at the whole situation. No matter what, she never stops fighting to help him keep that humanity he started with. From now on, Paul really will walk a fine line. But as the vision said, he went to the highest point to see all possibilities. He knows the true motives of all....

I really enjoyed this epic movie, however, I’m not sure how I feel about Alia not being born because she really is important in the book and also how they cut the war down.

I think one critique i have of your critique on the "white saviorism" is that Frank Herbert didn't intend it to just be against whites. It's against charismatic leaders in general, whether they be white or not. There is a reason why the fremen so closely resembles islam.

49:55, if they'd done that, the ornithoptor would have known their position and taken them out. They needed to remove the thopter first.

59:14 It's "Jeeblee" not "gueblee".

They do not trust computers. Yeah !!! good remark! but why ? in the books....i can just tell you it is VERY important in this universe.

"I do wish we got a bit more duncan before his death" - As someone reading the dune sequals (Frank's ones not Brian's don't worry), this is really funny to hear. SPOILERS for dune Messiah and onward. duncan is first brought back in Messiah and then for literal mellenia there are countless versions of him made by god-emporer Leto II. So there is indeed a lot more duncan in the books.

Bene Gesserit can controll almost everything in their body also what gender their child will be.

49:54 well they had no cover, the ornithopter would have just shot them first.

In the book the reason lady Jessica has a son cuz she loves her Duke more than the order she betrayed the order n had a son cuz the Duke wanted a son n she loves the Duke. I don't like they changed it. Makes Jessica cold in this but she really did n does love the Duke just wish the movie showed it more.

I intentionally waited till I could see 1&2 in one go. Only to read that there’s going to be a part 3. Lame.

I was excited to see to see both films. Looks great, acting convincing, changes to the book's underlying themes incomprehensible. A potential classic? Nyet.

Gurney was reading from the Orange Catholic Bible. I now wonder if that is the Trump Bible?

White Saviour never made any sense in Dune. Paul is a lot, but definitlely not a saviour. At the end he is basically a villain.

The movie says "six weeks," you say "six months." The movie says "millions," you say "billions." I hope your job doesn't involve numbers.