Re: spice color -- spice is described as brown in Book 5! But it's also described as blue in Book 4 and indigo in Book 3. Different chemical forms maybe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Or maybe Herbert forgot & didn’t care? 😂 knowing his writing it wouldn’t surprise me that he doesn’t care what colour things are. Even something as important as spice
Blue? Could that be the spice essence or water of life kinda thing? The pre-spice stuff? I can not remember it being anything but brown/orange ^^ I only remember indigo as the description of the eyes of the fremen. (book chapter 8 "blue spice-tinted eyes" :) Edit: yeah it seems that the "spice melange" which basically is the syrip/essence, right, is indigo colored ^^ that is.... weird... but well the spice is in sand so that blue would not last long
The flying machines in the Dune 2021 movies are more practical than flying machines in the books. Matter of fact not much of the mechanics work in the Dune books.
Alt Shift X is so humble and respectful. He literally says “I can’t comment on those books because I haven’t read them” Then someone chimes in and says “you shouldn’t be a hater and comment on something if you haven’t read it” And Alt Shift X just goes “Yeah I think that’s good advice” as if he didn’t literally say that 20 seconds earlier. Absolute respect.
"as if he didn’t literally say that 20 seconds earlier" - Not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but that donation message showed up a couple minutes before he responded. He clearly doesn't read the donation messages instantly as they show up. He finishes his point and goes down the list eventually.
@@doryfishie2 You’re correct. However when he read the live chat, he had already just finished saying he shouldn’t comment. So when he read it he could have said “Yeah I just said that” but he didn’t, he acknowledged it respectfully. And I think that’s nice.
As for shields and Fremen: I really liked the detail in the book, that Paul with his shield-fighting training looked like arrogantly toying with Jamis because his shield-penetrating "killing blows" were slow, so it looked like he held back.
For the question of breaking imperial conditioning: The baron wants to keep it secret, because it's a powerful weapon. Maybe lots of other people have broken it as well, but also kept it secret. Maybe the conditioning isn't actually all that perfect, but everyone wants to believe it is. Also, I'm so glad you've gotten into Dune. I can wait to see what you have to say about the last two books. I honestly really love them.
This is actually quite good. I always wondered how they thought it was so mindblowing to use loved ones as leverage I mean its not that genius. I could imagine a society of aristocrats being to proud to admit it though.
Another possibility is that Wanda was a Bene Gesserit who thought Yueh some training, which was my head canon I think. I also kinda accepted that Yueh was, just as everyone in the Atreides inner circle, a very unusual an gifted individual, who might just very well be the exception of the rule.
I don't know but I remember reading somewhere that one can break conditioning by making a ghola that has memories of their first life. They would think they were conditioned, act like they were conditioned under normal conditions, but if a real pressure, like kidnapping a loved one is used, the nonexistent conditioning won't be any help obviously and they would break. Because they themselves aren't conditioned. Not sure about the source though. Because before reading this, I thought Heyt was the first ghola with awaken memories.
AS for the spice, there's a chance its color depends on the situations its in. Its described as brown when its in the spice tank, and coming from the tank. At the same time, whenever water is present, like the spice bloom, or the water of life, or the fremen's eyes, its blue.
The part at 1:05:00 where your talking about in the book that The Reverand Mother shed a tear for Jessica, it is important to remember that Gaius permitted that tear to fall, as the Bene Geseret can fully control their whole body. It was a calculated show of emotions. Sorry if I miss-spelled the names
The thing I like in the book that was also in the movie is the scene in the tent. The way Herbert describes Paul’s prescient vision is so much more intense and described in a way that is almost impossible to capture in film.
I always thought that the imprinting Yueh received from his Bene Gesserit wife (since Bene Gesserit women are known to do that) interfered with the Imperial conditioning and the Harkonnens exploited that. So the feelings Yueh had for his wife are much stronger and deeper than typical spousal love which is why torturing his wife worked. I'm not sure about this though.
Love these Dune discussions. I just read 12 of them and though I've taken a break to read other things for a bit, I still cannot get enough. I will be reading them again, and it's the first book series that has rivaled LotRs for me (though they are loved for different reasons and aren't really in competition). Note: From what I gather raw spice is brownish red from impurities, but pure concentrated "spice essence" is definitely blue.
That's not how the Baron broke Yueh. Pietr is the one to figure it out. Pietr through manipulation and the torture of his wife convinces Yueh that he would be saving lives by killing the Baron. The only way to assassinate him though is by sacrificing Duke Leto like he does. Pietr just believes that he killed Yueh before the attempt
When I was reading Dune to my kids I warned them about the "slow start". That it didn't really "get going" until they got to Arrakis. I read the first chapter and my kids were like "So, a life threatening event is a slow start? I'm IN!"
I agree... The bright red nappi Baron is awful. But... The playful manipulative monster that the baron in the books is, is, so amazing. I adore him and Piter's back and forth.
Yooo I'm so excited for all this Dune content, I just finally watched the movie with no knowledge whatsoever about Dune and man was I blown away with the spirituality of the entire story AS the cherry on top. Since the visuals and performances are a 4 course meal of deliciousness
Would be amazing if you did a few videos on the 40K history and even the major comparisons to Dune. I play and have read 40k and didn't realise how much of it comes from Dune. Watching the movie constantly made me think of the 40k universe. Love the content!
I want to thank you for representing Dune in its truth. I have loved Dune since I was small. I found old paperbacks of the books. They're like quicksand to read at times, but Herbert truly created a complete universe. He wrote it so that the reader could see it as he did. Thank you!
The whole thing with the dinner and the like it was more of Leto being considerate of how Jessica does not like to have the bull head with Arreides blood around while eating but that may have been me
I prefer the idea of traveling through space like it says in the books…i feel like that was the point of spice and the navigators becoming mutated…because the speed and precognitive abilities your mind would need to think and process information is so intense that you must consume spice and undergone physiological changes to endure it.
SkyNet is from terminator; the computer all knowing was called Omnius. The books are well worth the read; and with input from folks who aren’t truly engaged w the lore and complimentary players-just feels as though something is missing.
There's a fan theory going around that I like. Wanna, his wife, was sent by the Bene Gesserit to see if Bene Gesserit could break the conditioning. While it didn't do it itself, Pityr managed to pick at the newfound cracks in Yueh's conditioning.
It's the theory I like most, that Wanna's Bene Gesserit abilities conditioned Yueh in a way that superseded his Imperial conditioning, cuz that bit of world-building is a bit of a head-scratcher otherwise. Like, the Baron breaks Yueh's conditioning by kidnapping his wife? Wouldn't that be the _exact_ kind of scenario Imperial conditioning would be _designed_ for?
That's actually from the Dune Encyclopedia which is quasi-canon. Essentially a bunch of other writers wrote up a fake encyclopedia in the deep future of the Dune series as if they were a group of historians trying to guess what happened during the events of the story. Frank liked it enough to consider it canon, but because it is written "thousands of years afterwards" you can't consider the word of random historians to be exactly right. Edit: The idea is that Wanna was a Bene Gesserit Imprinter and used their conditioning techniques to override his previous conditioning. His conditioned devotion to his wife theoretically was stronger than whatever the Imperial Conditioning process accomplished. Other "historians" posit that Imperial Conditioning is actually fake among other things. Edit 2: Now that I think about it, I guess that's still a fan theory, even if it was Frank approved.
@@Xelpherpolis I'm inclined to think that it was something he didn't have an answer for, and either didn't bother, or simply didn't think of one in time. Then again, his entire story of Dune is to think outside the box, and we're supposed to fill in our own plot. More than likely the first one, though.
Spoilers: Regarding the ending being abrupt, I don't really think you can do it any better way as the story is clearly divided into three parts. The first is the death of Paul Atreides, Second is the birth of Usul and Paul Mua'Dib and the third is finale, the rise of the inevitable jihad and the acceptance of being the Kwisatz Haderach . The first movie ends when Paul joins the fremen and becomes Mua'Dib. I am worried about the 2 later parts because they are so complex especially with Pauls sister and I hope the rising conflict with Stilgar is portrayed right.
When I read dune, I assumed the earth animals on Arrakis and any other planets were simply put there by humans during the 10,000 years of space travel prior to the jihad. There are mentions of fish on caladan, among other animals, but never actually any *alien* life in dune, other then the sand worms. Arrakis, caladan, Geidi prime, all probably where completely uninhabitable, dead rocks, without even a breathable atmosphere, that advanced humans terraformed. Maybe more advanced humans before the guild never found alien life, or more likely it couldn’t co-exist in the same environment as us, so recreated earth ecosystem were simply put in place. Now the mystery of where the sand worms come into this, is oddest thing. There the only distinctly non-earth lifeform, and they can only survive in an environment humans can barely survive. Which leads me to believe they could be of a truly alien origin.
I didn’t like it at first, but by the time I finished the butlerian jihad I really liked it. I didn’t even know it was a trilogy til then end. Yo I got more work to do.
This is a weird experience for me. I read the Dune books in the 1960's when I was in high school. Didn't much like the later books. Never heard of a son writing more books. Watched the 1986 movie, not so good, kept looking for more though. Just found out about these movies (Part 1 is on reserve at the library already). And I might have to read the books again to get into context.
On the thing about the fourth book and on, I am considering persuing audiobooks to finally get through them, because to be honest, I have never gotten through "Children of Dune" in text form. I have watched the miniseries, so I understand the majority of the storyline. So I encorage anyone who has problems with reading dense text, audiobook.
The Spice gas the Navigators live in is described in book 2 as orange. I haven't come across the passage in person, but I also heard the powder is brown but can glow blue. When I get onto the audiobooks for further books I will see what they say.
I cannot imagine the purposefully rotten state of mind one must have to claim Dune is a "white savior" story. Hearing that comment made me choke on my chicken tendies.
Love the entire stream, but this has bugged me -- assuming the lady Jessica was "technically a slave" based on the usage of the word "bound" to the Duke is a leap. "Bound" is a word we use colloquially regarding marriage, it's not unusual to say bound by marriage, or use the word in other phrases such as "ties that bind," etc. Lady Jessica and the Duke are significantly NOT married, but she IS bound to him while HE remains free to wed officially, for political reasons. It is still, however, a partnership so she is the one who is monogamously tied to him in the romantic and sexual sense, and perhaps as a subject in his Dukedom. But being "bound" does not indicate slavery, necessarily, any more than modern folks bound by marriage vows are in any way considered to be slaves to each other. It's flowery language to indicate the nature of the partnership. Not necessarily anything more.
Ill say that most of the ways that Alt Shift X pronounced names is the way they are pronounced in the audio book. So there is consistency there. Also, found you after finishing Messiah as I needed to learn more. You and Quinn rock.
I really liked the Brian Herbert books. I know a lot of people don't like his books, but I accept them as concluding the story. Unless someone creates a Frank Herbert Ghola he won't be finishing the story himself.
22:08 On the Baron this comes into mind as part of the philosophy with Dune: Sankofa is a principle derived from the Akan people of Ghana that one should remember the past to make positive progress in the future. Upon which the Baron 110% neurotically, and thru suppression, with repression always rejects in doing but then again the mannerism reveals: The Hopi refer to this endemic state of imbalance, falsity and depravity as Koyaanisqatsi. They define it as a condition in which a thing is so irrational, corrupt and unsustainable that it eventually implodes in upon itself without external forces acting upon it. It's a rather sophisticated account of a decaying civilisation, and must be taken seriously. This is because when good people witness or experience injustice, degeneracy, delinquency and crime, etc, they automatically want to actively combat it in some way, usually with the help of others. That’s very commendable say the ancients. But there’s another more fundamental and subtle law at work. And law it is, in the full sense of the word. It’s the law that declares that within evil lies the seeds of its own destruction. Take any organization, large or small. If nothing but corrupt, perverse people take command and decide upon its destiny, how long before the thing collapses under its own weight? The seeds of its fall are already in place due to the absence of goodness, truth and wisdom. When all is said and done, evil is absence. This law of implosion, of self-obliteration, is evidently working in today’s world, bringing down many a degenerate person and state. It’s working on the personal level, bringing about illness, toxicity and imbalance to unseat falsity, hypocrisy and corruption. It's also working socially to lead some very perfidious types into delirium. Although we might only witness the effects of this cathartic deconstructive principle on the political level, it’s not working for superficial rectification. Its working for a radical cleansing of the psyche and soma, put off for far too long. It's presence facilitates a process of cultural sublation by which higher octaves of consciousness are manifested, primarily in heroic people dedicated to the exposure of evil in all its forms. To correctly grasp the meaning of Koyaanisqatsi, we must understand the compensatory nature of consciousness. In other words, by foolishly accepting negative happiness we non-consciously send out a call for a new way of being - saner, truer and deeper. It means that that those with hearts full of envy and self-loathing will not get their way. On the contrary, they'll simply see their rotten societies come to an end. The ancients spoke of at least four great civilisations of prehistory, each destroyed by cataclysms brought about by humankind's error and hubris. There have been a thousand holocausts, which have occurred in a thousand ways and will recur, both by fire and by water and by many other means - (Priests of Egypt to Solon, father of Plato) Even when we read between the lines of Biblical accounts, we see that the so-called "Fall" really alludes to man's disconnection from nature. In many cases the view of ancient shaman was that culture is little more than the grave of humanity. It's what we inherit when we abandon and ignore nature's superordinate laws. Edit: www.dragonmother.org/koyaanisqatsi.html KOYAANISQATSI The Anatomy of World Decay
How do you feel about the work of the son of Frank Herbert, it would be interesting to know your opinion. I started my acquaintance with Dune, somewhere in the period from 2003 to 2005, when I was a teenager, at first there was an original series and I discovered the books of his son only later. All this prehistory of Dune seemed interesting to me then. But two years ago I read one of his son's works again and changed my mind completely. They seem to have some kind of interesting plot, but ideologically they are weak, the authors just endlessly chew on the same things. Especially weak is Dune-7, the completion of the entire series, but this is just my opinion. What do you think about this?
Hi. Esperanto speaker here. Esperanto was not created to replace other languages, far from it. It was actually created to protect them. By using a common, neutral tool to communicate, your own language could remain in your community, and you wouldn't be forced to learn other languages which might be imposed upon you. If a language is forced upon you, its culture is forced as well. Esperanto was also created as a way to facilitate peace and understanding. Of course one can debate whether it was a good idea, or whether it worked at all. Sadly it didn't help that its creator was a Polack Jew, and quite a good number of Esperanto speakers ended up in the concentration camps as the language was seen as a tool for world domination. Zamenhof's family was almost completely eliminated, only a nephew remained.
I also learned how to speak Esperanto in school and was taught about its message and meaning. I do agree with most of what you say but I dislike how Esperanto is basically a mixing of all the languages. I dislike things like Portunol or border-Finnish too, I think the sanctity of how languages evolved by themselves should be kept. I fought a lot for the right of Catalunains to learn Catalan in school and Galicians to be able to have the Bible in Galician.
@@sheogorath6804 Hi, thank you for your reply. Esperanto vocabulary draws from different languages (the grammar is however rather unique, it has no clear inspiration in European languages; it is closer to Turkish or Chinese). This by itself is not that unusual, most national languages draw from other languages. My native language for example (Italian) draws from Latin, Greek and French among others. Latin itself draws from different languages. The verb 'to be' in Latin is 'sum, est, fui, esse', and that itself already contains three different PIE roots. I welcome your attempts to protect all languages. Languages evolve and new forms of expression can be created out of previous languages. This by itself is not a problem to me, I actually think it is natural and should be freely allowed. What is a problem to me is forceful suppression or forceful replacement of languages, and by extension, of cultures of which those languages are products and forms of expression. You mention Portuñol. I am not against it. However if it were to be adopted officially by a government and that government made it the _only_ allowed language, e.g. making it illegal (or discriminatory) to speak Spanish or Portuguese, that I would be against.
@@mnlg_yt I think we are in agreement about most things there. Esperanto's attempt at being a lingua franca by drawing from various languages is morally virtuous and since it was designed to be a second language to help people communicate across borders I have no issue with it's composition. I am Portuguese, so like Fernando Pessoa said "we speak a language as similar to Latin as you are to your parents", however we have heavy Celtic, Arab, and Nordic influences. For instance European Portuguese uses Germanic cadence as Brazilian Portuguese doesn't, which is why if you listen to Cristiano Ronaldo speak Portuguese he sounds Russian but if someone is speaking Brazilian Portuguese it's usually mistaken as Spanish or very unmistakable
@@sheogorath6804 All cool, just as a final note, to counter your "Esperanto is basically a mixing of all the languages" (which is IMHO a very inaccurate description), if you are interested I recommend Waringhien's book "1887 kaj la sekvo...", detailing the reasoning behind certain choices of words and of grammar, and Zamenhof's long process of refinement of the language, going through several intermediate versions. Thank you for your messages and good night.
This movie's version of Jessica looks nothing like her description in the novel and she has absolutely ZERO personality. Francesca Annis (in the Lynch movie) nailed it.
I wanna see God Emperor of Dune. Really. It has a lot of dialogue... But there also scenes I could imagine in a Hollywood production.. Or maybe a streaming series? I really wanna see Leto II as a Worm. It's so weird and awesome!
Hey I really hate to bring up that Alt Schwift X guy, but I hope you can give his contact info over to Quinn’s Ideas? Love your stuff as always Alt Shift X. I’d love a Quinn’s Ideas/ Alt schwift outrageous dune theory talk! Great Videos as always 👍🏻
I like the shield idea, but why don’t people fighting also wear some kind of armor to stop blades? Could be plastic or ceramic and very light. Or Valyrian steel, which they can probably manufacture that far into the future.
Concerning Azhor Ahai and the prallels with mazdeism, I think it´s interesting that "Azura" means demon in Hindi, the creatures fighting against the gods or "daevas". While in Iran/Persia, after the zoroastric reformation, "Ahura" becomes the name of their deity, while "devas" comes to mean demon. It reminds me quite a bit about Rh´llor being a god to his followers and a demon to all others. /by the way, mazdeism is truly a fascinating religion)
The idea that the Roman Empire fell because of decadence (and degeneracy) and all that was a 19th to 20th century interpretation of history but isn't really something modern historians really see as a thing anymore. I think nowadays it's mostly used by fascists and people with tendencies in that direction because it provides an easy way to make populist points against elites without actually saying anything of substance about politics and conditions, it fits neatly into a religious narrative about the consequences of worldly vices and they also usually use it to frame anything they don't like (like sexual orientations, people having fun without caring for religion ect. ) as dangers for the stability of civilization. There are even modern historians who reject the idea that the Roman Empire really collapsed in that apocalyptic way people often think about it with naked barbarians smashing marble statues and whatever. When you actually look into it, it's really far less exciting and most damage to the Roman infrastructure wasn't even caused by the Visigoths but in the 6th century by the Eastern Romans under Justinian I on their reconquest of Italy.
I don’t entirely disagree with you so don’t take this the wrong way, but i think it’s important to note that the romans themselves in their own time believe in a sort of theory of cyclical history, and they would very much have attributed their own civilization decline (to the extent that they saw it that way) to an increase in decadence and degeneracy, coupled with being out of touch with the virtues of their ancestors, etc. so whether that narrative is factually supported or not, it’s certainly nothing new to the 19/20th century or any rome-worshipping ideologies that came out of that time.
FYI: Kwisatz Haderach definitely comes from Hebrew. In Hebrew it's nothing mystical. It means jumping the way, correctly and mundanely translated as, a shortcut. It's pronounced as kfitzat ha'derekh.
Haven't read it in decades ... but didn't Leto II want to stagnate the human race for 10,000 years so it would build up a strong desire to break out of its bounds and spread even further, with increased will and vitality, across even more of the universe? Paul was afraid to become the godworm, so Leto II had to ... Paul knew that trying to control human destiny would force it into a nonviable future, but didn't want to become non/super-human in order to guide humanity ... Leto II had to create a stultified, rigid, controlled human culture to prevent either dissipation into self-indulgence, or self-destruction in war. By locking down human society, Let II fostered the drive for rebellion ... which is humanity's saving grace.
After arriving Dune coming from Caladan, a world with so much water people could swim on it. Remembering that, how did the Atreides do with bath and personal hygiene thingys in general? Just a thought. :)
There was a theory that it was Wanna, Dr. Yueh's Bene Gesserit wife, who broke Yueh's imperial conditioning, not Piter. It says that Piter only exploited this fact and used it for Harkonnen agenda.
the movie and his videos are the reason I got into the books I bought the first book and am loving it. I just bought the bookset of the original 6. very excited.
There was a widely popular Dune 90s RTS game that was a legitimate competitor to Warcraft 2/3 in terms pr ubiquity on PCs but i have no idea what any of the plot was or if it was even relevant to the canon, if anyone can enlighten me i will bless you
I really don’t see any btug similarities between Star Wars and Dune. I see the Kurosawa influence , I see the Flash Gordon type sci fi influence, I see the western but not Dune
I would recommend the Brian Herbert books, you are quite wrong about the machine wars and the history of what is happening, also the post books it goes quite further than Chapter House. give them a try you might like them.
Marty and the woman being Omnius and Erasmus is the only plot thread that lost me. The rest is believable to be following the outline of Herbert's story, especially since in Chapterhouse the Honoured Matres come back with a weapon that just obliterates planets
42 year old black man whose read every book in the entire series including the prequels, draft notes, side books that featured House Griffin... People who haven't read the series scream White Savior. Lisan al gieb was never intended to be a savior. He didn't even have the conviction to commit to the Golden Path. After he was blinded Paul was locked into prescience. He was the leap in evolution, and more than the sisters ever hoped for, yet Stilgar couldn't understand why Paul couldn't simply see the future. He was the last/first step in the evolution of his species. I never had the impression that white/black existed. Race was planetary or affiliated.
I read as much of the Brian Herbert stuff as I could handle... So I will critique it. It is bad fan fiction, with no heart, no soul, no philosophy. It is a blatant money grab that only gets attention because it's Frank's son. I can't tell if Brian loves his dad or hates his dad based on the prequels. No, I'll go out on a limb and say he secretly hates his dad considering how he shits alllllll over his legacy. Christopher Tolkein he is not.
The books without Frank turn into fantasy, suggest you dont read them and the most ridiculous fantasy ending. I dont think they actually read the earlier books and just took some major plot points.
Now i know where i got my love for Pugs… i loved Davids DUNE as a kid, like i didnt understand shit back then when i saw it but it was awsome to watch as a 6yo tbh And i always wondered was there a movie before MIB that i saw that had a pug / where did this fascination growth from Now i know, thanks 😂
I imagine vilneu s got would be very much like Preston Jacobs take on it. Very fused with the author's 1000 worlds books. A sci Fi with a medieval twist, sort of like dune, but imagine bene tleilax getting a free experimentation right over the Planetos from landsraad, because there is an alien thing?/group/ there on war with humans. Sort of.
