Dissipating Static Electricity - Grounding The System - Part 4 Use simple and inexpensive materials to ground the PVC ductwork and reduce the build-up of static electricity.
Learned two things watching this: 1) How to properly install and test a dust collection static electricity discharger. 2) "Fartherest" is my new favoritist word (@15:30).
Great approach to grounding your PVC DC. I have been contemplating going the route of PVC (based on cost and aesthetics) but have been on the fence with the static issue. Having seen several wood workers (like Bourbon Moth) tear out their PVC due to overlooking the grounding issue, I appreciate your ingenuity here.
They make self tapping screws with large flange heads on them. You don't need to go through all that crimping. Just shoot a self tapper in half way wrap the wire around twice and goo to the next self tapping screw to do the same thing. Waste of time with the stud terminal connectors. This way you know for sure you have a continuous circuit. Don't get me wrong you did a great job but it is supposed to be down to earth wood works.
Very nice video. i was thinking about getting my own pvc collection system but i was worried about the static electricity. Now i know how to ground it. Thank you!
Lot's of very intelligent and thoughtful comments! Static is certainly an issue with sensitive electronics (per James and Gerald)... my laptop sits on my workbench most days and my camera uses SD memory cards which are pretty sensitive to being "zapped." Bob makes a great point about dust attaching itself to the outside of pipes... on a cold dry day the hose on my old-fashioned shop-vac looks like it's wearing a sawdust coat after I sweep up. There has been no dust attaching itself to my dust collection pipes, which is nice. Jay is right, it is a personal decision. And there are probably some places where folks can't even figure out why we are talking about this... do they get a lot of static along the warm humid gulf coast? Well, maybe if their shops are air-conditioned. :) Other than the time to do it, all the parts cost me ~$30, and John mentions peace of mind... to me that's pretty cheap peace of mind. So far (knock on wood) I haven't been zapped once... on the other hand, my wife's car shocks me every time I get in or out of it. Wouldn't try grounding her though...
i like this. i got back into woodworking recently after a 15 year hiatus and while i never did anything big before i have more money to invest and i just got a dust collection system going to help keep the garage from looking like i just weathered a lake effect snow storm. and i noticed i was getting shocked costantly at my planer. made me think about if i would rather complain about dust or electric shock therapy. electric shock therapy won in the end but i like the idea of getting rid of the therapist 😌😌
While it is a good practice to ground the vacuum pipes and tubes, it is more important to remove static electricity from the inside of the tubes. If you use long self drilling/tapping screws in multiple places, also crimped to the wire that you ran along the outside of the tubes, the pointed end of the screws that extend into the pipe will remove some of the static from the inside of the tubes. I also run bare grounded copper wire inside the flexible hoses.. In addition I use threaded grounded rod for the standoffs in my Thien Baffle. My dust container is a grounded 30 gal. metal trash can. I only use the vacuum for my CNC Router. It generates considerable Static Electricity. Prior to grounding everything, I would occasionally discharge myself and the pipes through my CNC table. Not only did it cause a bad shock it also caused the CNC to either stop or run erratically.
Great video as always, very detailed. It would be interesting to see the same test with a microfiber cloth on a grounded section of PVC to see how well the grounding method actually helps to eliminate the static build up.
Great videos. I just set up my DC system. Thank you for the helpful tutorial. One extra step I took was to purchase the hose with the copper wire structure. I then exposed about 1-1/2" at each end and attached to the screw at each end (blast gate and DC). It might be overkill but I figured why not. It also gives me the flexibility to shift the DC out of its spot (only a few feet, or swing in the opposite direction) if necessary. Thanks again!
Excellent process and video. Thank you so much for the tips and the time to make this video. You have performed a great service towards having a safe dust collection system with PVC piping. Bless you...
Thank you so much steve for this information. I took several steps back and im redesigning my runs. Im actually going to be moving my wood rack so I can turn my dust collector and gain floor space. I need to remove the old system of regular duct work and the copper wire that I rann on the inside of the pipes. The only thing is I ran on my old system a dedicated ground from the fuse box to the dust collector then ran out the ground out inside. I think im going to make a video of what I have and then show it like you did when putting back together. Steve once again thanks for the information and can't wait till your next video. Jeff
Sad so many people don't understand how static electricity works, and would rather nit pick the semantics and troll someone putting out a great video.They used to teach this stuff in the 4th grade. We all know PVC is an insulator. If it was conductive static wouldn't be a problem.It would simply discharge through a quick single ground of the pipe. Positivly charged electrons build up on the inside and the outside of the NON conductive surface as massive amounts of air travel through the pipes and you need a conductive static drain (along the entire surface) to attract them and safely discharge them to a ground without a spark gap. Call it what you want. Ground, drain, discharge, etc., this man has done an amazing job of solving the danger. In the future a simple google search and reading could save yourself the embarrassment of showing your massive ignorance. Electrostatic discharge from a non-conductive material is a very real thing, as are dust explosions and sawdust bombs. If you fail to believe that you're probably a flat earth, faked moon landing idiot. Thanks DTEWW's for saving me a lot of time and money with this video how-to. I've been struggling with my dust extraction setup for a while... I know I just fed the ignorant trolls.
It's ironic that you begin your comment with stating that "many people don't understand how static electricity works" and then tell us about "Positivly [sic] charged electrons ...". Outside an occasional physics lab, all electrons are _negatively_ charged.
never mind the polarity comment (I knew what you meant ). But " (along the entire surface) " is why anything short of complete surface wrapping , not little spot contacts , is required to actually dissipate the static on a non-conductive .
My friend used his wood lathe with a home made tail stock that sat on the floor (think wheel rim, a piece of pipe and a bell center). He marked off 6" marks and after hot gluing the starter end he wrapped his pipe with the wire leaving a small extension to cut to length. Once wrapped he spaced each wire on the marks and hot glued it to the pvc. At the Y's and T's he wrapped the wire instead of a straight jumper.
Bottom line, OSHA requires plastic pipe to be grounded. Don't confuse conductivity with ability to hold charge. If you've ever rubbed a balloon against your hair to make it statically cling to the balloon, you've witnessed a non-conductive material holding a charge. This problem is fairly common for woodworkers who set up dust collection in their workshops. PVC piping is often used as a carrier for sawdust back to a central dust collection tank. The (usually) dry sawdust flowing rapidly past the PVC causes charge to build up, similar to a Van de Graaff generator. The easiest way to ground a PVC pipe is to pull a length of bare copper wire through the entire pipe length (on the inside of the pipe) and connect it to a building ground. This will not ground out the entire pipe since portions of the pipe away from the grounding wire (i.e., on the other side of the pipe cross-section) will be electrically insulated by the PVC itself, but it will mitigate the "danger" of a larger static discharge.
great video but trying to ground pvc is impossible as pvc is an insulator. if you are worried about static get a metal ducting setup and you can ground that. ask any electrician and they will confirm this
I "grounded" my system by running bare copper wire INSIDE the PVC. This dissipates the static inside the pipe where it is generated. I terminated each run a couple of inches from each fitting with a screw and nut. Then bridged the fitting with a wire on the outside and connected it to the next length of pipe. I'm not very concerned with the risk of a fire, as the airborne dust density is probably too low to be a hazard. I did get a few shocks in cold dry weather, so I went ahead with this, it only took a few extra minutes.
all you had to di is touch any copper pipe or any metal machine with a 3 prong plug @120 Volts and see if the first blast gate is shorted to your electrical ground system or the nutral side of your power pannel.
Great series. Very minor point, I would use hex head self drilling screws and a nut driver or small ratchet. No philips head screws - much easier to use on a ladder. Also wrap all wires around the pipes.
I used hex head screws (#6 X 1/2") in the pipe-to-blastgate connections, but couldn't find any #6 X 5/8" hex head screws locally for the pipe-to-fitting connections. I guess it is a "small town" thing... I agree, hex head screws are much better & easier to use. Thanks!!!
What good does wrapping the wire around the outside of the pipe. The static electricity and dust are on the inside. The pipe is an insulator so the static electricity charge is not going through it. Also the area between the grounding screws is not having the static charge removed.
Because it has never happened in the history of the world LOL. This is just something for people to talk about on the internet.. Ask him to open a pipe and show you how dust sticks to the inside of the pipe like he did with his paper static test.. Lets talk about whole house vacuum systems and how the run the whole system with PVC and not a grounding system to be found.
Great job explaining how you made all the connections. Could you give a a bit more information on how you connected the teat equipment together to check the continuity of the connections?
"Static" Electricity is called that because its levels are so low it does not flow so it remains "static". Grounding your pipes gives you an additional path to ground but it does not dissipate static build up within the PVC pipe. Grounding is only an aid to reducing your problems with static electricity. It is not a solution. PVC is a horrible material to use because it builds up huge amounts of static. Metal flex-duct or vac hose that is impregnated with conductive resins are the only safe way to dissipate static.Grounding is a good safety measure but it isn't doing what you are claiming it is. Check out NFPA 664 for more.
Anyone who's ever used this technique knows it works. All the naysayers who say PVC is an insulator and doesn't need to be grounded don't understand the purpose of the video.
Steve -- Oddly enough, this subject is pretty controversial on some of the woodworking forums. I have been beaten up (verbally) for talking about the importance of grounding dust collection systems. Typically the argument against grounding is to the effect of "I have been running an ungrounded system for 30 years and have never had a fire." What they don't understand is that, in a smaller shop, the fire danger is very low ... maybe even non-existent. But ESD (electro-static discharge) can not only give you a nasty little shock, it can also raise havoc with electronic devices you may be using in the shop. How many of us are using computers, HD TV's, etc. in the shop, not to mention the growing number of tools that rely on electronics? Thanks for doing this! Gerry
Gerald Jensen I run across that same mentality when safeguarding industrial machines. The 'old timers' are almost always against it because no one has ever gotten hurt on these machines since as far back as they can remember. They fail to take into account that a machine should be made safe enough so that an inexperienced operator can run it without having to fear losing a finger or their life.
Good video. I get a kick out of the level of detail you always go into. Are you an engineer by trade? Your analytic approach reminds me of my son, who is a civil engineer. ;-)
I don't fully understand the need for grounding. On metal ductwork sure, but PVC is a non conductor so any static generated within the pipe is going to stay within the pipe. Plastic blast gates would have overcome the grounding requirement all together I'd think.
Steve. Couldn't you have used the next bigger connector, and then bent, or doubled the grounding wire before inserting in the connector, so the wire just went "in and out" the connector? At least on some of the runs, it seems it would have been easier, used less connectors, and been less crimping? Great job on your system, btw.
The PVC doesn't conduct to the screw or the wire. I don't have any faith that this really dissipate any static. How do you verify that that there was ever any real improvement? Wouldn't it be better if the copper was internal to the pipe?
Kenneth, thanks... you can read through some of the comments below and my responses to get some of the answers, but you may want to take a "deeper dive" into the subject by taking this class... www.shopwoodworking.com/dust-collection-ductwork-recorded-web-seminar The fact that PVC is not a conductor is irrelevant. Static charges build up on and around the surface of the PVC (inside and out) and can be dissipated with a network of wiring as shown in this video... and yes, it absolutely works.
if you're going to go through all the trouble of spiraling copper around piping, and putting screws & and terminals in every foot... you might as well use galvanized spiral ducting... probably cost the same in the end...
Are the screws meant for holding the joints together? I see no reason they would be needed for grounding reasons. Also, why did you choose copper wire over something more corrosion resistant?
The only time I have a static problem is when I use my belt sander and hose connected to my vacuum cleaner. It builds so much static it's jumps through my sleeve and in the back of my hand. The arm holding the gripp. It's quite disturbing and uncomfortable and zaps my forearm every 5 seconds. I tried a piece of copper wire wrapped around the hose and connected it to the earth terminal of a socket but it didn't work. I have a 50 mm drain pipe system connected to small bench machines going through a cyclone bin which is connected to a vacuum cleaner which doesn't cause me any problems, only the belt sander causes big static which is double insulated and has no Earth on the plug. Nice video you made.
That static problem sounds awful. Did you use "bare" copper wire to wrap the hose and go to ground? There are also some anti-static hoses on the market that work well. I had an old shop vacuum that I only used on job sites for picking up big chunks... while vacuuming it was fine, then if I touch the metal handle that is used to move the vacuum around, it zapped me. Like you, I tried everything and nothing cured the problem. I finally tossed the vacuum in the dumpster at a job site! Hate to say it, but it might be time to do that with your belt sander :) Thanks for watching!
The reason I came across your video was because I was looking for a solution and there aren't that many videos on the subject. I did use bare copper but I only warped it round in one place. I didn't do what you have done by wrapping the whole length or even half. I may try that next time. I don't use it so often. I have a 100 mm Hitachi it's a good one and not a 30 dollar one so throwing it away would sadden me greatly. I have some spare 40 mm vacuum hose so I might use a 3 meter section wound with copper just for the sander. Thanks for the reply.
The screws stick through the PVC slightly (the tip of the point is exposed on the inside) and provides a point at which electrons can flow from inside the pipe to the wire. Also the screws served the double purpose of joining the pipes together. The jumpers from screw to screw also make it very easy to reconfigure the system at some later point if necessary. Thanks!
after watching this project, there is a question I have, can I run a wire straight in place of wrapping around the pipe from end to end and adding screws in 2-4 foot intervals?
The idea is to allow the free electrons a conductive path to ground, so wrapping the wire provides more surface area and betters the chances for all the static to dissipate. I have not tried a "straight run" for the wire, but I suspect it might not be as effective.
Nice work ! But I fail to understand why the grounding is made on the outside of the pipes. If static electricity builds up it should be in the inside. If a spark occurs this will be caused by the difference of potential between the pie and dust (that causes the static). Then again why loop wrapping the wire around the pipe instead of simply connecting the wire from point to point ?…
I understand why you drove the screw's into the blast gates to ground them. But why didn't you just wrap the wire around the drops instead of doing the jumps?
The screws were dual-purpose, securing the pipe fittings to the pipe and serving as ground conductors on the insides of the pipe/fittings wherever their points poke through. Multiple points for any static on the inside surface of the PVC to drain to...
would it not be more efficient to run a bare copper wire inside the pipe bringing it back out to bypass fittings and to wrap the pipe also in bare copper wire making connections where the inside wire comes out
I don’t think you need to put so many screws over the pvc as long as the wires are connected. Installing one or two areas should be enough to discharge the static electricity!
An easier and less expensive solution is to wrap the pipe in the silver Christmas garland and ground one end. I've seen this done in a print shop where paper running thru a press generated tons of static electric and caused all kinds of trouble. The press manufacture recommended a several thousand dollar solution that worked no better than the Christmas garland. Merry Christmas.
Thanks! I saw something very similar in a photographic film manufacturing plant, where I assume a static spark would expose the film. Great idea! And it will make the shop look so festive!
While there is nothing wrong with it, I don't know why you would use coated wire for this purpose. Uncoated wire would work just as well, You could just use cheap safety wire. Plus with uncoated you could just run a turn of wire around the screws if you wanted without having to scrap off the coating and save the cost of the crimped connections. I play with electronics also, so I have to worry that I don't accidentally create a wire that is a harmonic length of something I might transmit on.
Ok So I know you got your wire years ago at radio shake but they are no loner around and I can't seam to find the 18 gauge braided wire do you have any idea where I might find it now days? Thank you
Where did you get the spool of non insulated wire and is it 18 gauge? I bought rolls from Rockler but quite expensive. Can't you just wrap the wire around the screw? With the screw sticking slightly inside of the pipe would it pick up static from inside of the pipe and through the screw transfer to the copper wire on the outside of the pipe? Is a copper wire inside of the pipe really necessary? I am in the process of assembling my system so a quick answer would be appreciated. Great video by the way. Rick
Hi Richard, The wire I was able to find at The Home Depot, but I don't know if they still sell it. It is 18 Gauge stranded. Because the screw tips protrude into the inside of the pipe slightly, they will indeed pickup any static charge inside the pipe, so there is no need for wire inside the pipe. Yes, you could just wrap the wire around the screw heads. I chose to use the crimp-on ring connectors so that if I ever needed to disassemble a section of pipe for some reason it would be easier. Good luck on your installation!
While this is a very well made video, the technique here is most likely useless. Static will build up both on the inside AND the outside, but a single ground wire is not going to help with this. While "you can't go wrong doing this" is perhaps true, I believe if this technique gives a false sense of security but is ultimately useless, you can go wrong. Metal pipe also builds up a charge. To really discharge the static, you'd have to basically wrap the PVC with metal. Has there ever been a single case of a fire or even static issues when the PCP pipe is mounted to the wall? Chances are, just the mounting to a wall is doing more than the wire.
Nice system! Can you tell me who's blast gate you're using and did it require modification to fit the pvc? Does the ground wire take care of all the static. Curious also why pvc instead of metal? Is it a big cost savings? Thank you
The blast gates are from Woodcraft. They are excellent, but require a wrap or two of tape before they fit perfectly. I used electrical tape. The ground wire takes care of the static---100%. I used PVC because it is cheaper and for me, easier. I've never been very good (lousy, actually) at bending, cutting, or fastening metal, but PVC is easy.
I like that idea I am always getting zapped so if it prevents that from happening I may do that when I install mine. Just for information there has never been a fire from static discharge but I guess better safe than sorry. A lot of people have the misconception that static discharge will start a fire but this is not the case it has been proven that any fires have been caused by the steel impeller striking a metal object causing a spark to ignite the saw dust
That is pretty much what I have heard/read, too. For me it was more to prevent the "zapping"... A couple of years ago I got zapped by static and a little computer memory stick in my pocket got corrupted. Like you say, better safe than sorry! Thanks!
You might be lucky my friend. I just found this video because I've hooked up 2 small sections of pipe and was hoovering off my CNC of all the fine MDF dust and I got jabbed 4 times in 30mins.
The only way to ground a PVC pipe is to wrap the whole thing in a conducive tape or similar inside and out. Because “static” charge does not move hence the name and secondly PVC is a very good insulator the copper wire will only discharge the static only where the wire is. All this work is a complete waste of time as this guy does not understand what static charge is. If you are concerned about static discharge use metal pipes.
Someone needs to clarify the static electricity and grounding necessity. I am hearing polar opposite theories. Someone is 100% wrong--which is it? Is static electricity a concern in a dust collection system or not?
Once I had the opportunity to tour a film manufacturing plant. Film, of course, is made on a plastic base (a non-conductor) but as the plastic base moves through the machinery at high speed, static electricity is a big problem. A spark, naturally, would fog the light-sensitive film. So they used what essentially looked like copper Christmas tree garland running across where the film was running, both above it and below it... not touching it, but just above it. That "garland" was grounded, and it "collected" (for lack of better terminology) and dissipated the electrons we know as "static electricity." Is static a problem in a dust collection system? Well, if you live in an area with dry relative humidity and cool weather, the cellulose (wood chips and dust) traveling through the pipes and hoses will generate static electricity. Ask anyone who has those humidity conditions if they have ever been "zapped" and they will have to admit to you they have... unless the system is grounded. Whether or not you choose to just "live with it" or try to dissipate it, is up to you. In all the research I have done, I can find no provable instance of a home dust collection system spontaneously exploding or catching fire, but in commercial situations it has absolutely happened. Before I added the grounding wire as described in this video, I could get within a couple of inches of one of my dust collection pipes while the system was running and the hair on my arms would stand on end... a little closer and I would get shocked. Not dangerous, but annoying. And any dust in the air would cling to the pipes immediately. After grounding as described, years later, no shocks, no hair standing on end, no dust collected on the outside of the pipes. If you are running PVC for your dust collection system, you can easily try it without any grounding, and if your conditions are such that static is not bothering you, then you are probably good to go... but if your RH and temperature conditions are conducive to static and you start to get "zapped" or dust is clinging to the outside of your pipes, then grounding will help. In my case, it absolutely eliminated what was a problem before.
Materials that build static charge are doing just that (look up definition of static) , building charge that stays in place because of the non-conductive nature of the material it forms on . IF YOU WERE to spray or cover the ENTIRE surface of the PVC with a 'conductive' then you COULD move off the static . ( this is OSHA's requirement on grounding pipes moving flammable gas , Wrapping entire surface ) Attaching little itsy bitsy screws to a few points on the surface is POINTLESS because the PVC is INCAPABLE of conducting the rest of its static surface to these points . THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING . TRUTH is these feeble attempts to control static ACTUALLY INCREASE the chance if a static spark problem by adding a number of insignificant charges together that WILL travel through the conductive wire and could increase the static voltage to a point of making a large leap . !! (do the system in metal If you want to be pro active on this matter .)
Grounding a PVC pipe doesn't dissipate the static build up. It's called "static" because it stays where it is. To dissipate it you need a pipe that is made with conductive resin. You shouldn't be using PVC.
You don't need a conductive pipe. Humans can get shocked by those pipes and a grounded copper wire is a much more attractive target for electrons. It will work just fine.
All right for those who doubt what static electricity will do I have two stories from my childhood. I lived in a small farming town in the center of the town was a Purina Dog food plant, The corn for the food was held in a silo and fed into it from the top. The ground corn was feed out through the bottom. One very dry day the building exploded killing most everyone in the plant the cause was static electricity. We had a steel manufacturing plant out side of town where they manufactured heavy machinery and performed a lot of grinding which was cleaned up by a dust collection system, one fine very dry day it explodes killing 6 men. One last true story in a missile silo in the mid west while cleaning the out side of a missile they decided to open the silo doors the turbo electric charged formed on the missile and it initiated the missile engines killing all in the silo. To prevent that from occurring in the future a topical product was developed it took 39 tries to prefect the coating. We call it WD 40 and use it as a lubricant the Air Force used it as a anti static coating.
No, it is Schedule 40 "Well Casing" pipe. Charlotte Pipe, the manufacturer, describes it as "a robust piping material designed and tested to withstand the collapsing pressure associated with underground well installation." Thanks for watching!
The pipe is inert. If you install your system wrong by making it a non-closed system, when you yourself .... open a pipe and stick your finger in the space where the dust flows without proper ground, then ya .. you're gonna fucking cause an explosion. simply physics. Do you need to ground your system? no ... do you need to ground YOURSELF .. yes.
While this video appears informative, it is actually MISinformative. Just because you do a good job of explaining a faulty concept, doesnt make it right and wrongly causes members of your audience to follow your directions. YOU CAN"T GROUND AN INSULATOR! You can prove this to your self by performing the same rub test on a "grounded" PVC pipe - it will still attract pieces of paper!
+Alex Parfenov The problem is with the nomenclature... correct, you cannot ground PVC... but you CAN ground the system of ductwork. Actually, what this system does is provide a preferred pathway for electrons to flow rather than those same electrons gathering and eventually jumping, i.e. sparking and shocking. It works.
The term 'gather' is what CANNOT happen. If it were conductive, then a charge could migrate or move to a point and 'gather'. When its EMF was large enough, it could discharge and thus causing a problem or just a zap. However, in PVC, charges CANNOT move, migrate, or gather. Therefore, wrapping in wire is useless. There's nothing wrong with grounding the metal blast gates but only if it's convenient. The garage hobby woodworker need not worry about the static on PVC. Just my $0.02 from an EE...
Did you consider putting the wire on the inside of the tube where the actual static is being produced. I am assembling a simular system and my thoughts were to run the wire inside. Is there a reason you chose the outside?
This dumb electrician agrees. What I see potentially happening is a relatively large charge building to a point high enough inside the pipe to overcome the resistance of the pipes sidewall to the grounded wire. Is he relying on the screws to pick up the static from the inside walls?
Of course you could use a multimeter. I don't have one and was under the impression they were quite expensive. I have since learned that they have come down in cost… like most things electronic, I suppose! Thanks for watching!
Multi Meters are cheap ($25 and they last forever at least mind has) but I have never seen a multi meter with 25 foot extensions , although I suppose you could make them this is a pretty neat idea
Thats kind of what Inwas thinking. You could go to the farthest end and measure continuity between the last screw and the ground of the nearest electrical outlet.
