Thanks for doing this comparison! I have been going back a forth as to whether I should replace my shop vac + dust buster combo with the 1HP HF collector for use with my table saw. Your test convinces me it would be a worthwhile upgrade. The HF will also save me some floor space since I can mount it on the wall next to my saw.
Holy dust collection! I was contemplating using a rolling "dust deputy" type setup for my workshop dust collection but I am glad I watched this. I am really surprised by the difference in dust collection capacity between a shop vac and the Harbor Freight system. I think it's time for an upgrade! Fantastic video - thanks for making this!
Finally someone did a video on the harbor junk mobile dust collector. I've had this thing sitting around for years after buying it and only using it for one job. So now its going to be used for my small shop dust collection. Thanks Robert
The Shopvac is designed for high pressure and low volume. The dust collection units are designed for high volume and low pressure. As an example, if you were going to build a vacuum hold down table for your AVID cnc, you would want a motor that was high pressure and high volume. The shopvac would be great holding down a board to the table, until there was an air leak or you cut through. Then there wouldn't be enough volume to maintain pressure. The dust collection units would be horrible and holding anything down since they don't create much pressure. Just my 2 cents of info.
Haha. Trust me, no one hates my crocs more than me. BUT, they are a great shop shoe. Comfortable, cheap, and more protection than a normal shoe. I'm not gonna say it's a safety shoe, but I have dropped some relatively heavy objects and it's been a fair amount of protection. Screw it, I like them.
CFM and fine particle collection (HEPA) are the most important things to me. Then noise is 3rd and and watts is 4th. Hard to find reviews that talk about filtration and sound on any of these things. 2 parts which especially for hobby workers on small garages and shops is super important
Eduardo - I second the importance of HEPA filters! Bill Pentz has done extensive research on the importance for our respiratory systems of capturing the fine particles that are too small to see. He also gives some ‘rules of thumb’ for the square footage of HEPA filter / CFM necessary to capture these particles. Bill’s website is: Billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.php#index.php I’m in the process of deciding on a dust collector for my small garage shop. In what I’ve found thus far, Clear Vue appears to make collectors with the largest HEPA sq ft / CFM.
I designed and printed my own cyclone filter that drops the dust into a 30 gallon drum using the shop vac. I mainly cut Styrofoam board and thought the really light dust would never drop out of the cyclone. Boy was I wrong! Everything goes into the 30 gallon drum and there wasn't anything getting sucked into the shop vac.
I had similar results with the Dust Deputy and Styrofoam. Completely impressed. Seems like heavier objects stay in the cyclone longer than anything else.
Very interesting experiment with very useful results. Your experiment completely solved my confusion and answered questions I had in mind which one to buy. Thank you!
Great video. I built my cyclone over 20 years ago and I piped the exhaust to the outside thru an insulated duct which sound deadens the noise. Much quieter and 100% dust-free. No filter cleaning ever. The amount of heat loss is not significant. Hepa filter works best right before it needs cleaning then you have to clean and avoid dust from the filter. This makes no sense!
Thanks so much for this! I'm trying to rig up a 3/4 horsepower dust collector as a dedicated thing for a lightweight table saw that moves from job to job, and I'm hoping it'll be a big upgrade over the shop vac I'm currently using. The real world numbers are very encouraging!
Good info. However, there are a few things to note here. Having used both a cyclone setup with a large volume dust collector and a shop vac with a similar separator, they both have their purposes in the shop. A big cyclone is very good for moving large amounts of air with bigger objects in it (think planer, jointer) or in areas where dust collecting is hard to do, due to the volume of air /dust needed to be collected (think bandsaw, table saw) the cyclone wins hands down. Now hooking the big cyclone to a 2" ish port on a router table or a smaller port on a sander to capture the dust, it will suck, and not in a good way. The shop vac will outperform that hands down. Also sweeping up your show floor after a day's work, the shop vac wins easily. Verdict = both are needed in a shop for completely different tasks.
Really Appreciate this video .. I purchased a SurfPrep Sander and I've been trying to research how adding dust collectors inline with the shop vac would impact the performance of the dust removal. Again thanks for taking the time to make this video. I'm a woodworking virgin and haven't a clue to what I'm doing. *Happy Holidays*
I used the 1hp dust collector (Harbor Freight $150.00 ) in sand and finish hardwood. I'll produce 2 55 gal garbage cans of dust on an average job. I'll hand dust window sills after the job and that's all the dust left behind. Many professionals some years back bought 25k Atomic 2micron trailer systems (Think professional carpet cleaning system but way friggin more $$$ ) and I'm running 90% of that system for less than $300.00. Most other trades watched me pull this unit out and instantly say...WTF and then dude that works great.
Great comparison. If I was energy conscious, (which I am) The dust collector will do a better job after the $$$ outlay but save in the long run. That SUCKS. I cannot run the lathe, compressor and shop vac without overloading my small workshop. Cutting the power KW load would work for starters. Thanks for the info.
This is very good information! That little 1hp harbor freight jobber does pretty good for the money. The larger one does even better from what I have seen, and the price is pretty reasonable as well.
Thanks for the video, really put it into perspertive. CFM/kW is usefull, only CFM or only kW not so much. Always compare to whats important to you. For some it's CFM/€or$ or CFM/Volume when you have limited space.
Would be interesting to see how necking down the dust collectors to 2.5" affects CFM. I haven't gone to a full on dust collection system because all of my tools have 2.5" ports, but if the CFM difference is still staggering I might "upgrade" from my shop vac and dust deputy. I'm not super pleased with it's performance, and frankly the shop vac bags perform a heck of a lot better than the dust deputy, the problem is the cost.
I've been using a shop vac with a dust deputy because I already had it but you sold me on a harbor freight upgrade. Did I just say Harbor Freight was an upgrade!?! Great, now I have to watch for lightning strikes...
Hi Robert ... outstanding video, I learned a lot ... this was eye-opening at the very least. If you are indeed on a budget, the Harbor Freight solution is quite attractive. In any case, your time and effort is definitely appreciated. Thanks much, Cheers, Dave
Apples and oranges. The shop vac works with vacuum, the other collectors with airflow. Every device has it's application. If you reduce the diameter of the hose, the big ones don't work anymore, no airflow. If you need volume, the big ones shine. Basically, you need both or get a Cam Vac. They have volume and vaccum capabilities.
I have the HarborFreight 2 HP dust collector. Rated at 1300 cfm I think...but I reduced it to 2" fitting and found that the suction to be useless. Far less than my Craftsman shop vac. I'm not an engineer but I think it has something to do with pressure. It's kinda like comparing a wide slow moving river compared to a power washer. The river moves more water but the power washer can cut wood. Each system has its advantages if used for what they are designed to do. A 2" shop vac with a dust deputy will be sufficient for smaller bench top power tools like sanders. The bigger dust collector systems are designed for table saws, jointer, and planers.
I believe that the main draw of the Dust Deputy (aside from budget) is the dust separator which saves on filters and provides for easier dust disposal.
You're 100% right. I was focused more on CFM performance. If you suck MDF dust for a few minutes with a shop vac, that filter is going to get clogged and it will stop performing. I was assuming most people would be using a cyclone because of that.
This is one the best videos on dust collection I've seen. Short answer if starting out - skip the shop vac setup and go straight to the HF 1HP. It may not even cost more at the end of the day. It would have been interesting to know what the velocities were just for kicks.
Thanks. My thoughts exactly, get the HF unit, and if you need separation, just go with the cyclone. The cyclone itself isn't bad, it's just the shop vac lacks any real airflow. For velocities, I say the diameter of each hose, so you can use that to find out the actual air velocity.
Ah, good idea. I actually have an old school analog decibel meter which I've used for other videos, but just didn't think of it. All of them are LOUD. The V3000 is probably the quietest actually. I did find that the specs on each are pretty accurate, so you can trust what the datasheets say.
Hi, thank you for video, but you are not comparing right things - Im talking about shop vac (high pressure low volume system) vs dust collector (low pressure high volume). You need both in workshop. Try to reduce 6" inlet of DC to 1" to use it on orbital sander or hand router - it will just dont work! You need shop vac here. SV has high pressure and therefore it can work with small ducting... And I really dont think that cyclone for SV is waste of money. I think it is necessary because of small filters and bags - even when you loose 23% of CFM how you showed to us. There is also important question about how much pressure do you loose? Nevertheless I think cyclone for shopvac still worth it. What I really miss is measuring lost of CFM in DC cyclone? Many of us with small shops do have a small power DC. And because dust collector is usable without cyclone it is really important if one should add it? When Mathias Wandel measured CFM his conclusion was that adding cyclone to shop vacuum makes sense but when you add it to DC there is too much loss of CFM. Of course it depends how powerful DC do you have... Regards, Tomas
Thing about the shop vac, it has the smallest hose diameter of the 3. With CFM, you're somewhat restricted on the hose diameter. People have increased the inlet on the HF Dust Collector from 5" to 6" just to get a CFM increase.
Can’t decide whether to build a flat cylinder centrifuge with Thein baffle…or a deep conical cyclone funnel….or a hybrid which starts as a cylinder and then tapers to a cone. The difference is the way the air gets to the outlet tube. In a Thein cylinder the air flows in a flat circle radially closing in on the pipe at the core. In a cyclone the air forms a vortex moving down, then funnels up through the vortex centre like a whirlwind….which works best for spinning out fine dust I wonder? Important to keep in mind in the video…dust is easily moved by even gentle flows…so a slow speed high CFM set up is probably the most effective at capturing wood dust and small flakes…BUT, the static pressure or ‘suck’ will be much lower so heavy particles..like metal shavings and metal filings in a multipurpose workshop might not be pulled into the hose at all…or might ‘settle out’ at lower speed sections within the duct. Some shopvacs can literally lift a house brick on the end of the hose with their huge vacuum pressure and will easily take up small metal offcuts..and dropped money/keys/screws etc. Just a thought.
A couple of things - the shop vac is optimised for suction, not air flow - they are not the same thing (consider an air compressor versus an air blower). For dust collection, you are interested in air flow. You briefly blocked the inlet of the shop vac - had you done so a bit longer, you would have observed that the power consumption dropped significantly. This is kind of counter-intuitive, but with the inlet blocked, the machine is moving less air, and hence doing less work, hence using less power. Very interesting to see the flow losses at different points with the shop vac and dust deputy setup.
I'm not really sure I fully understand the difference. An air compressor is a VERY different device. and the usage of air is measured in SCFM, which is essentially air volume. I was measuring air flow and then calculating CFM given the cross-sectional area. I can play around with it more, but in terms of airflow, that SHOULD be the best way to determine how much suction something has. Of course I could test water lift as well, but I have a feeling the shop vac won't perform well with this test either.
@@RobertCowanDIY An air compressor was probably a poor choice - it's a positive displacement pump, as opposed to centrifugal pumps found in vacuums and dust collectors. It might be easier to to turn it around and consider water pumps - you can get a pump that will move a lot of water, but at low pressure, and you can get a pump that moves a lesser amount, but at higher pressure. The former is analogous to a dust collector, the latter to a vacuum.
@@gafaff Robert still very effectively shows how ineffective a shop vac is for dust collection. There are a bunch of factors that affect how good vacuum cleaners are (portability, filtration efficiency, how easy it is to change the filter, etc.) and none of those were tested here either.
@@RobertCowanDIY You need to test the static pressure that each of them can pull. That's the suction part. The shop vac is all about suction, the others about airflow.
The test is flawed 1000 ways to Sunday BUT, the errors are really important unless you were comparing 1 shop vac to another. Even with error, it's easy to see the point that the Shop vac sucks. Lol. I'm setting up my system in a small shop and have the shop vac and cyclone. I have not looked at the price of the the harbor freight but I'm going to and see if I should switch gears. In setting up for a drill press, spindle sander small 7 1/ inch miter saw (for rough work only. I have a Large Ridgid that I take outside in their Amazon folding rolling stand) and also a router table that gets used mostly for round overs at the moment. My table saw and Ridgid miter saw are used outside 99.99% of the time and I don't currently have a planer or jointer. I live the video and made me think. Thanks and good luck with that suckinator.
I'm not really sure what you're referring to? I'm measuring CFM for different dust collection methods. That's in the title, and that's what I'm doing. It's not a complete picture as others have said, but I thought I was pretty clear about that. This isn't some clickbait BS about "which is best", it's just a CFM comparison.
Good video, thanks! But you've completely ignored particle filtration efficacy and suction pressure. Both these matter for different applications and that's why both classes of extractors exist.
You are 100% right. This video was suction comparison, that's it. But yes, they each filter the dust very differently. I was only focused on suction, or airflow.
@@RobertCowanDIY Actually, you measured (unloaded) volumetric flow rate, not suction. That said, flow rate (both velocity and CFM) is most important for dust collection, while suction (negative pressure differential) is more important for vacuuming.
I need to put my 2 cents in here I think your information is great and viewers can understand the differences now especially those who may not have a real technical back ground. I bought a 2hp harbor freight dust collector and it works fine I also have the shop vac cyclone setup . What I really want to say here is everyone on u tube want to modify the harbor freight system which is fine , I would like to say that every time they add all these mods they are reducing the original cfm's and I do not understand their reasoning maybe some of your viewers can enlighten me.your demonstration really explains that . thank you for the time of doing it. Oh yes which home energy monitor are you using?
CFM isn't the whole story. You also need to measure static pressure. Shop vac should be low volume high pressure, and dust collectors are high volume low pressure. The pressure can be measured by seeing how high of a water column it can suck up a vertical pipe.
Great video, Thk u! Whats your thoughts on a Harbor Freight or WEN, or equivalent 600cfm unit, connected to an 4” reducer to a 2.5” connection, then to a Oneida Dust Deputy using a 2.5” hose directly connected to my table saw? I am thinking a whole lot better than using a shop vac.
This is an over simplification. These solutions are not mutually exclusive they are complimentary. You measure CFM but ignore pressure. Shop vacs and dust collectors are mostly opposite here. High pressure, low CFM show vacs vs high CFM but low pressure dust collectors. Also, the level of separation and filter life are also important. The dust deputy and the big collector will preserve filter life versus the bag filter on a single stage like that HF has much less filtration - it's a chip collector that won't capture fine dust. Also, when you take a dust collector and reduce the hose down to the port on, for example, a sander that kills that CFM and you still get low pressure. Generally you should match the dust solution to the tool based on the tool's port. Small ports call for a shop vac or dust extractor. Big ports, like on a table saw or band saw call for a dust collector.
Then there is the crazy expensive Ruwac collection system with a 3 motor hepa vacuum and 2x 50gal drum separators/collectors. Intended for asbestos vermiculite insulation removal, but would still be amazing for for everything else.
Not trying to be mean, I just thought it was funny. On the shopvac you hit the off switch to turn it on and the on switch to turn it off almost every time. :D
I know, and I've owned it for well over 10 years. This is a good reason why good design is important. Making one button bigger and feel different would solve the problem.
Question and im not doing it. I bought a larger unit but just for fun with the harbor fraight chip collector, and the dust deputy how much loss of power insted of using a vacume. I think if I was going to go a vacume route I might buy a shark Bagless unit. Four about what a shop vac and dust deputy cost and you get all that stuff with a hepa filter in one unit around the same money. Shop vacs are good to pick up water. Or vacume the floor. But they cost more to run. Just use it to clean out your pickup truck bed.
Hey robert! Thanks for posting these results! Did you happen to test the hard or freight dust collector without the bag filter attached? I’m curious as to what the airflow increase would be and my expectation is that it would jump from ~500 cfm with the bag to about 1200 cfm without.
Robert, do you think you could make a video on air particulates like solder fumes and chemical voc's? If be interested in your opinion on safety and practices. Edit: specifically focusing on environments like shops and interior home rooms
Kind of late with this comment but thank you for the informative comparison. My dilemma is that I want to build a very portable, like jobsite to jobsite, cyclone dust collector but wanted something better than (and possibly smaller than) the dust deputy /shop vac combo. So I was thinking of the dust deputy 2.5 and a small 3/4 or 1 hp fan but step in down to the 2 1/2" opening on the DD 2.5. I was considering the smallest cyclone with 4" ports but it is way too big. Question is, how much cfm do you get (or lose) after you step down from 4" to 2 1/2"?
You can find those online. In general, for a contractor table saw, you can get 90% of the "chip dust" with a Wet/Dry Vac and Dust Collector. But, it'll be too underpowered for a Hybrid or Cabinet Table Saw and if you try you'll get about 50% of "chip dust" - as those saws have a minimum requirement of 350 CFM.
I've set up a woodworking shop and now have a clean slate, but I'm uncertain about what diameter pipe to opt for in my dust collection system. Currently, I'm equipped with a Harbor Freight 2HP setup, enhanced with upgraded fan blades and a P181038 filter, alongside the addition of the Oneida Cyclone, which I've wall-mounted. I've noticed many RU-vid creators employing 4" pipes, while a few opt for 6". Could you shed some light on why you chose the size you did?"
You can find calculators online, but with a 3HP vacuum, you want higher volume, so bigger diameter tubing. For smaller suckers, you won't have the power to get any real velocity in the larger diameters, so you use smaller tubing. There are lots of sites that will let you calculate the appropriate sizes for everything, based on your layout and equipment.
Great vid, thx 👍👍...I have a 1hp 4" extractor, plus the shop vac... making big me reasses! I wonder if using the 4" hose, coupled down to 2" (DeWalt 745 table saw) would work better than shop vac...
What about static pressure? Also, i would love to get an e-guage to support you but it just does not make much sense for a homeowner that likes numbers.
@@Ender_Wiggin You're not work, but that's just not our market. We're more of an industrial/commercial product, and Modbus is like the "home assistant" for that market. We've thought about doing something with Alexa or Google, but it's constant upkeep and I'm not sure what you'd really be asking it. "How much power am I using right now?". Stuff like that is tricky.
Could you please measure the CFM after the vacuum hose is attached to the Dust collectors? I wonder if is different than minus 20 CFM for the hose connected to the dust collectors..That could show how long the hose can be before real loss of suction..
Thanks Robert! I came to your video by searching for the answer to a question. Would I be better off using my Shop-vac, 12-gallon vacuum to drive my dust collection system or a Grainger blower with 425 CFM that I have laying around in the garage? I'm only connecting a chop saw and router right now. From your testing, it sounds like I'm better off with the blower?
So I have that same anemometer. And seem to can't read cfm beyond 700-800 I get either a bunch of 0000 or the letters OL on the screen. I sent back 1 thinking it was broken and got a new one but same thing. Did yours really give the higher readouts?
Thanks for the info. Question for you test the harbor freight without the bag on it. I just purchased one for my little hobby setup but I plan on making a homemade barrel cyclone and through wall venting without the bag. Was curious what the cfm without the bag was and the wattage. Thanks
try connecting your big 2600 cfm machine to one of those 3/4 inch inlets on a power tool then come back too me. you need the craftmsman for the high pressure application on smaller inlets, the cfm on the big dust collector does not create enough pressure to pull through a small hose and you will lose 95% of the cfm.... you need both in your shop. the big one and a small one, the harbour frieght is the waste of time ( or should i say the intermediate option before you upgrade to the big one, but you still need the shop vac for power tools)
In my shop there was a preexisting 4" line for dust collection built under the counter tops in the house I bought. I am running a 5.5 hp shop vac to a homemade cyclone, all 2" pipe, to the 4" pipe. All my accessories are 2" fed off the 4" line. What should I have my surface area set to on my anemometer to get accurate results? I tried the .034 as you did, but I got a lot higher results than you did. I'm thinking something might be skewed because of the pipe size variance. Whatcha think?
you didn't take into account velocity which is needed for small particles. When hooking up to a small tool a 4" dust collector is useless. A small woodshop needs both. A bigger higher cfm for planers and jointers = large chip producing tools. A shop vac with bag works for everything else. Don't even bother with cyclones.
Would of liked to see the harbor freight CFM w cyclone too… I have the Wen version of that one and debating if I need a cyclone or not- converting my 2 in shop vac system to that w 4 in duck
The length of the hose in the dust deputy example Is too long. In my dust deputy setup the length of the hose is about one third of his. His hose reduced the airflow by about 14%. So with my setup the hose would reduce the airflow by about 4.7%.
It's tough to compare because you are comparing apples and oranges. If you would have tested static suction the shop vac would have had 5x more than the big dust collector. In real life you rarely operate at a free flow (zero resistance) condition and never at static pressure (zero flow). The only thing that matters is how much air flows across the dust coming off of the cutter. For a small powered sander a shop vac will perform better. For an unmodified table saw the dust collector will perform better. However, using a 2000 cfm machine is unnecessary unless you use 10 tools simultaneously. This article explains how you can achieve 99% efficiency dust collection with less than 100 cfm with just a few mods... www.shophacks.com/tablesawdustcollection
wish i woulda watched this a week ago lol that harbor freight is only $50 more then my shop vac and i just dropped $$$$$ on 2.5 inch ducting set up lol my shop vac "claims" to be 6.5 HP so maybe ill get more CFM then urs? but damn i would really like that 1 HP at half the electricity cost with way more suction
