EARLY BLACK METAL ESSENTIAL ALBUMS debate with Jason Longo | LOCK HORNS: (live stream archive) 

I think Beherit is overlooked quite often, it's definitely an essential band for those who love BM.

Under the Sign of the Black Mark is everything

My 10 Essential Early Black Mal Albums: Venom - Black Metal Hellhammer - Apocalyptic Raids EP Celtic Frost - Morbid Tales EP Bathory - Under The Sign Of The Black Mark Sarcófago - INRI Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas Darkthrone - A Blaze In The Northern Sky Blasphemy - Fallen Angel Of Doom Beherit - Drawing Down The Moon Burzum - Burzum

How the fuck does Hellhammer not get mentioned!?!?!?!?!?

Mercyful fate definitely needs to be there! Their imagery and lyrics are definitely ask dark as any of those other early Black metal bands! Sure it's not speed black metal like some of the others but it's definitely black heavy metal!

These are the awards: Most ahead of their time: "Dissection - The Somberlain" Lone album to shape a genre: "Thorns - Trøndertun" Coldest album (debatable): "Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse/ Satyricon - Dark Medieval Times" BM in it's most purest form stylistically: "Darkthrone - Transylvanian Hunger" Most historically significant to the genre: "Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas" For excellence in band progression: Enslaved

Hvis Lyset Tar Oss is Burzum's most haunting record in my oppinion. It is atmospheric as hell, the vocals and album cover freaks me out. Even though it's only 4 songs I think it's better than Filosofem, Self Titeled and Det Som En Gang Var in my oppinion

You guys really Need to split this to a proto/first wave black metal list and a second wave list

Jason Longo is as personable and exciting as a bag of potatoes. :/ I'd be pumped to talk metal with you guys at the banger bar and he doesn't even seem too care. Lol.

Starting a debate on black metal never ends well for anyone, this was extremely constructive though

Next time debate with a Black Metal musician.

I'm glad Bathory made it on, but I feel their debut (the yellowgoat album) was the true beginning of the LO-FI sound of black metal.

Jason looks like he just wants Norwegian Black Metal bands and looks rather uncomfortable with all the Venom, Bathory, Celtic Frost, Mercyful Fate, Sarcofago...

Beherit rules !!! 👏👊👍

So many millions of fundamentalists do not recognize early Venom and Mercyful fate albums as BM classics - why? Oh, because they have melodies and hard rock gimmicks and the whole old bag of tricks. SO FUCKING WHAT? Black Metal is not only about chainsaw guitars and sepulchral Halloween vokillz. It's about ambience and spirit, and in that sense, Venom and MFate MADE IT . So, albums like the Venom Trilogy and MFate's Melissa and "..Oath" are BLACK METAL CLASSICS. They paved the way... and I even fear that I am now (at 53) getting a little bit tired of NBM, especially after knowing from the words of people WHO WERE there in the day, that it was basically a can of bees... of course I also cherish the memories of Bathory's early tetralogy and Hellhammer's scarce discographic legacy. Why do I think this, you may ask... - well just watch this Lock Horns video. Any way I was 18 in 1981, that best explains my opinion. Lock Horns UP !

Dissection "The Somberlain" is one that should be mentioned. As for the artwork of Emperor's "In the Nightside Eclipse", It takes the chromatic influence from the Dissection Album.

I'm surprised Sam has not heard or is familiar with Beherit. Very atmospheric. The only other album missing is Impaled Nazarene Tol Cormpt Norz Norz Norz. Other Scandinavian bands exist and are influential other than the Norwegians.

Sam nails the Venom summary on the head. It may be difficult for those who are younger to wrap their heads around the importance of Venom's Black Metal LP but it is unquestionably the cornerstone of the genre. As a zine editor, tape trader, etc.. in the early 80's I can assure you that the bands I was corresponding with and interviewing at the time (Slayer, Bathory, Hellhammer, Exodus, Metallica, Crowley, Nasty Savage, you name it) - they ALL derived inspiration for what they did from Venom's first two albums.

Pure Holocaust totally needs to be there! That album is top ten early black metal material all day long. An absolute classic! Pummelling, melodic, raw and quintessentially Norwegian black metal \,,/

Mercyful Fate, Celtic Frost/Hellhammer, Possessed, Venom, Bathory were all huge influences on Black Metal so I believe they all deserve a place on this list! this all helped the great black metal bands to come like Darkthrone, Mayhem, Burzum, Emperor, Immortal, Gorgoroth, those are what I consider great 2nd wave Black Metal bands.

Thank u Sam for the amazing work that you have been putting up for almost so long. I have always appreciated your work and your channel. I have always wanted to be a part of the debates u host but unfortunately i have discovered your channel a little late. Hope to be a part of the other future events... Much love from India brother\m/

The entire list in general is excellent because all these bands were brutal black metal and were original!

I'd like to say thanks for another great video Sam and company. To me, the feeling and atmosphere of black metal is exemplified by Bathory, and that sound of another​ world that the darkness, sorrow and "the journey into the void" is the hallmark of what became black metal as we know it. Many elements came together to allow black metal to exist. Mercyful Fate, Sarcafago, Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Motorhead, GBH, Amibex, Discharge, Venom, Bathory, and many more are essential to the formation of that signature sound. Are any of those bands black metal? Depends on how YOU feel, and YOUR experience while partaking of this artform. But there seems to be a dividing line at the Norwegian bands and that's when the genre ceses to be super a influential mix of many things and become a solid cohesive genre that stands on it's own.

The guest Jason has little respect for the true origins of the black metal genre that influenced and largely created the bands he would later love in the '90s. It all traces back to Venom! Martin Ain himself said Hellhammer started out imitating Venom which led to Celtic Frost. Quorthon followed Venom around from city to city when they came to Scandinavia as he was a huge die hard fan of Venom who were a giant influence on Bathory. Dead from Mayhem had a famous quote that roughly said all black metal is here because of the fathers Venom as he put it. Plenty of early pics of Euronymous wearing Venom tshirts. In my view whether you love Venom's early music or not black metal traces it's evolutionary roots directly from them. Even listen to the sound at the start of the song "Black Metal" it sounds much like the early Bathory and Scandinvian bm guitar sound.

I seriosly don't understand why they put "Filosofem" on the list and not "Aske", which was a much earlier record that actualy came with a Zipo lighter and had a burnt church on the cover. What could be more black metal than that?

I would have personally looked into other bands in the scene that were hugely influential under the radar. Bands like Samael with Ceremony of Opposites and Rotting Christ with Thy Mighty Contract, maybe Enslaved's Frost too.

This really should've been two lists: 80's with Poison, Morbid, and Samael & 90's with all the second wave bands.

Love Metal like everyone here. Every time i watch a video here though i seem to love it more. Great work Banger. Keep it up!

I think the cornflakes reference talking about Burzum went over Sam's head...

In several previous episodes, the "proto" band that started the movement has been put above the title, signifying that they spawned or influenced the movement but weren't necessarily part of it. That's where I would have put Venom. Leave them above the list and THEN put the top 10 essential BM albums underneath. It seems like a reasonable compromise, and then you could keep someone like Ulver or Satyricon (I wouldn't necessarily put Enslaved on there, much as I love them, because their early BM stuff wasn't as influential as their 2000s-era prog albums).

despite the guest adding almost nothing substantial to this segment, this is still one of my favorites recently. thanks for doing these. I need all of those magnets, you should look into having them licensed and sell them through banger, because I would love a full black metal magnet covered fridge.

Sam I am totally grateful for what you do man, you keep the metal flag flying and that's what matters in the end. I watch all your shows and while I might disagree with some viewpoints, I respect you for being a huge metal fan. All I ask is please leave political viewpoints out, that shit does not matter, its all about the music, good metal is good metal period!

Also, maybe even before Sodom, a band called Holy Moses (which most of you probably don't know) Put out a demo called Black Metal Masters in 1980, and Satan's Angel in 1982. The music is darker than Venom, almost sounding like Deathcrush or early Darkthrone. The vocals, oh the vocals. The vocals actually sound like they are out of Live in Leipzig, or 2nd wave Black Metal!

I get that this guest has been playing music and has been involved with metal for 20+ years, but he doesn't seem so well versed with this subject. Maybe he's just not so great at elaborating on his thoughts, but it comes across like he's unfamiliar with this genre, save the more popular bands.

Neckbeard in a beanie doesn't even know about Beherit . great guest choice SAM

Venom defined black metal. The Norwegians just 'redefined' it for themselves. Plus black metal in the 80's was defined by it's satanic lyrical content and not necessarily it's sound. Thus bands like Mercyful Fate and Possessed were described as black metal bands back in the day.

Come on. Samaels debut lp, and their 1988 7" ?

Great episode. Love this series. The more content the better from Sam and Banger, we need this shit to keep going. Have to agree with many on here, not sure Venom is the BM jump-off, but Welcome To Hell and Black Metal freaked the fuck out of a 12 year old me in early 80's (in a really fucking awesome way!). Still, Bathory s/t and The Return seemed to me like the 1st albums where the "sound of black metal" cultivated over the next 30 years actually took form. Frost - love them, Venom - love them, Fate - loved them all, but a genre is defined by most importantly a "sound". Those bands influenced the sound, but BM as it came to be was just something different. Could of benefited from a definition of the word "early" i.e. years we should be looking at. A younger person than myself might say "screw Bathory, fucking Enthroned or Taake!" and they wouldn't be wrong, just coming from a different place time wise. Maybe Essential Early should've been set at '84 to '94 or something? "Early" is individually dictated by someone's introduction point. Love what you guys are up to, thanks.

The first sound of black metal was created with hellhammer (fav. Satanic rites) and bathory. My personal favorites from the first wave are bathory, tormentor and samael!

Nobody wants to talk about Hellhammer but everyone wants to talk about Mayhem. This being despite the fact that three members of Mayhem are named after Hellhammer songs (Messiah, Maniac and Euronymous) and another named Hellhammer! Which just goes to show how fucking clueless most black metal fans are.

Mayhem 'De Mysteriis' is essential

So according to the comments kids these days think Venom isn't black metal HAHAHAHA

I think the fact that he didnt put Sepultura's Morbid Visions is just not right

Under A Funeral Moon ???

What the younger members of the metal community might not be aware of is that the term Black Metal had a different meaning in the 80's. It only referred to a band that had lyrics mainly focused on satanism / anti-xtianity. Venom coined the term but Bathory defined the sound.

Venom and Hellhammer are on top of the list of early blackmetal.No debate needed. It is what it is.

Dissection and Sacramentums First one are my favorites but Black metal at all has so much gems like kvist, taake, vinterland, or the early abigor couldnt decide which are the best, i love all the classic albums the same in their own way

Why would anything from the 90's be considered "Early" black metal. That's ridiculous. The list should have had bands like Venom, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost, Slayer (Show No Mercy), Bathory, Vulcano, Sarcofago, Mayhem, Sodom, Tormentor, Bulldozer, Morbid, Mefisto, Sabbat, Necrodeath and such bands.

Id say the legend is Venom's Welcome to Hell or Black Metal for sure..

this dude doesnt look to excited to be here talking about black metal lol

I'd consider "early" black metal to be the first wave. What are all those 2nd wave bands doing there?

c'mon guy, get the guests a seat next time, it was so awkward seeing him standing up like that haha

i really enjoy this channel. there's a lot of knowledge and diversity. i'm 19, very passionate about music and from England. the first metal i even heard of was from the new wave of British heavy metal, typically :P like Deep Purple. i have really began to admire the genre that is black metal though, because thankfully i befriended some awesome metalheads. it is quite incredible how many genres there really are in metal. my top 10 black metal bands that i like the most are: Venom Bathory Mayhem Burzum Darkthrone Hellhammer Behemoth Anaal Nathrakh Emperor Imperial Triumphant (this band genuinely fucking scares me) there are others that i enjoy like Celtic Frost, Taake, Gorgoroth, Watain, Agalloch, Immortal, Satyricon, Marduk, Sunn O))), Katharsis, Korgonthurus & Carach Angren. and i have many more black metal bands to listen to! if anyone sees this comment and would like to recommend me something to listen to, please do respond :) also, people need to stop being mean about the guest in this episode. he must have been nervous as this was his first time.

Great Black Metal albums; there is a lot of bands and records for a top ten, but in general you took a good choices. I just pick Eld from enslaved and Shadowthrone from Satyricon to add! fucking killer channel ImI

Sodom's "In the Sign of Evil" and "Obsessed by Cruelty" have WAY more in common with Venom, Bathory, and Hellhammer than any releases by Kreator and Destruction, who sound relatively much more like Slayer, Exodus, and Metallica, so I strongly disagree on that one.

"So I wasn't really into black metal until this dude showed me the basics, but here are my opinions on the top 10!"

I'd like to make a connection between your Lock Horns video about NWOBHM where you mentionned Witchfynde and this one: can we consider Withfynde as a precursor in terms of imagery? The artwork of the Give 'Em Hell album looks so evil and black metal to me! And it only came out in 1980!

Lisa is so hot!!!

Burzum Aske , Darkthrone A Blaze In the Northern Sky , Immortal Pure Holocaust , Mayhem De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas , Venom Black Metal , Hellhammer Apocalyptic Raids , Bathory the Return

they forgot VON

Mayhem - Death Crush is a sick Early Black Metal Album \,,/ I really need to stop missing out on these shows!!!!! would have loved to have been involved in the Industrial show, My fav genre of Metal

Mayhem members have acknowledged that they learned they raw sound from bands in Colombia such as Typhon, Inquisition, Masacre, Parabellum, Nebiros..etc

Mercyful Fate's first 3 studio recordings are the gold standard. Dissection's First two studio recordings are right up there with them. From a lifer.

I love how hellhammer ended up in the board.

forgot some of the first wave like Root and Master's Hammer

It seems the audio way off-sync with the video whenever I want to watch it. And it's the same for a few other of the Lock Horns videos.

I'd really like to see you guys have a modern black metal episode. Black Metal has come a long way since then and anything outside of the 90's hasn't really been discussed on the show. Leviathan, Blut Aus Nord, Deathspell Omega, Wolves in the Throne Room (can't remember if this made the Blackgaze tree or not), Watain, tons of bands that could be added to the tree.

I'm really surprised no one brought up that Transilvanian Hunger and Filosofem being what directly influenced the start of DSBM.

I am surprised, there was no love for The Secrets of the Black Arts by Dark Funeral.

You guys forgot these: Sabbat Master's Hammer Samael Graveland Marduk Impaled Nazarene Mortuary Drape Rotting Christ Mystifier

The Immortal guys look like they had a Black Metal checklist to check off and have notorized before that photoshoot/cover you showed of them.

I’m so happy the first band this guy said was DISSECTION 👌🏻🤘🏻 thank god

You should research about Parabellum and all the Ultrametal scene in Colombia and its relation with Euronymous and the early norwegian Black Metal scene. That will give you a whole new perspective about the birth of Black Metal.

SAM! YOU´RE SIMPLY AWESOME MAN! YOU REALLY KNOW, LOVE, AND FOLLOW UP THE METAL SCENE!

jilemnice occultist is a black diamond....totally overlooked ...i ordered it and drawing down the moon out of the back of metal maniacs...masters hammer are far and away overlooked genius

In the Woods " Heart of the Ages" is one hidden gem of an album.

Absolutely clueless guest with no knowledge on the subject whatsoever.

would have liked to see Ulver's Bergtatt, Satyricon's Nemesis Divina or Forgotten Woods' As the Wolves Gather on there

I'm still bewildered that they had to add Burzum to that list

BATHORY- Under The Sign Of The Black Mark is the 1st black metal album proper. nuff said.

Hey Sam, I fully agree with you :-) HELLHAMMER Apocalyptic Raids should be on this list!!! Only Death Is Real \m/ BTW you forgot the early stuff from germany and eastern europe Sodom - Obsessed by Cruelty Destruction - Sentence of Death Tormentor - Anno Domini ROOT - Zjeveni/Hell Symphony Blasphemous Greetings from Germany Keep it up

What do you do with the magnets when a show is done? Is there a frig in the Banger bar that is covered in metal magnets? @banger

Kudos. Black Metal is a tough one. I didn't agree with a lot of what was said and bands that were "unknown" to the host and guest but whatever, much like the death doom episode this is obviously not a genre these dudes have studied deeply. It could also be said that BM is an incredibly vast and multifaceted genre, this is a huge task to take on. There could be an entire season of shows debating Black Metal. So, good job for giving it a go. I'd enjoy an episode focused on USBM.

Messiah - "Extreme Cold Weather" Extremely underrated and basic album! Never been mentioned - 1987

Agree with the Nattens Madrigals comments........absolutely insane black metal album regardless of what year it was released!!! Wow!!!

To all (New Wave) Black Metal Preschoolers : True, Black Metal was not the first Black Metal album, it was Welcome To Hell.

Mercyful Fate totally belongs on this list man. Between King's corpsepaint, and the lyrical content...yeah it needs to be on here. Id put Dont Break the Oath. I agree that Live at Leipzig is the Mayhem album to put up.

ever heard of PARABELLUM from Colombia. this was euronimos fav band from south america. he used to exchange tapes with them, they where p playing black metal before black metal was a genera. they called it ultra metal

Along with brazilian Sarcófago there was some bands from Medellín Colombia, specially Parabellum and Rencarnación who plays a rude anti-technical extreme metal in the mid eighties.

I would also add "Nemesis Divina" by Satyricon on the list.

Mystifier has to be there, Brazilian Black Metal from 1989

Mercyful Fate was a prog metal band . Other than King diamond image his makeup specifically , and the lyrics , had more to do musically with tech death and power metal

Man, why the hell is Dark Medieval Times by Satyricon not on there? That's disappointing, it is one of my favorite bm albums of all time. It wasn't even mentioned.

Sooooo when it comes to the Ulver issue, it DEFINITELY should've been up there. You guys need to think of Bergtatt, Kveldssanger, and Nattens Madrigal almost as one...mainly because it was meant to be a trilogy. Each of those album styles are now widely used in modern day black metal..If that's not 100% influential on the genre, then I don't know what is.

Been following this scene since the late 80s Brutal dark evil shit great stuff for the out cast and isolationist

Video starts at 0:45

also Alghazanth started bullet bells in my opion

Dimmu Borgir - For All tid 1994 ?

Nice debate! Congrats. Lisa rocks! Send me her Facebook link hehehe!!

If we're considering the definition of "albums" as a compilation of songs written by a single artist, I think the Witching Metal demo by Sodom is the first Black Metal record (even though it is technically a demo). It came out in 1982, before Hellhammer and Bathory. It sounds 100 times more true black metal than Venom