One hell of a lecture! I'm in a constant need of runners because the world is full of jigs I have to build. So, I learned: dial your table saw in *once* and make a *bunch* of runners. Thanks.
I appreciate you including the mistakes (soft wood) in your videos. These teach us newbies just as much as the subject of the video. Being a mistake prone person this means much to me. I still can count to ten on my fingers!
Minute markers!!!!!! Yes!!!! You are an exceptional videographer. If you have friends or associates, I hope you encourage them to do the same. Thank you sir. This video, which provided me no new knowledge, is the best diy vudeo I have viewed for quite some time, simply due to the time indexes. Please carry on in helpfulness.
Thanks, Jeryme! I've actually been sloughing off putting in markers, so thanks for the reminder that they're useful. I'll try to remember to add them for future videos. And if you come across any of my videos that you think would benefit from them, but don't have them, leave a comment for that video reminding me to add them. Thanks!
Thank you for a lot of good tips. Been working with a radial arm for decades but you still need a table saw for certain applications. Besides the opportunities on projects multiply many fold with a table saw. Keep up the great videos. We are never to old to learn new things especially in woodworking.
Thank you sir for this video! Another technique here for those of us that have cheap table saws with sloppy fences... Follow the steps above but don't sweat cutting the runners too narrow. Use two runners for your sled and when you go to glue/tape them up make sure they are pressed to the outside edges of the slots (both away from the blade) using folded up pieces of cardboard/paper/whatever. After the glue and screw to the sled base, if the sled binds lightly sand the outside edge of ONE of the runners until the sled slides smoothly. Thanks again for this vid, and count me as a new subscriber!
Thanks, and a great tip. That's the thing about being a "newbie" (I probably don't qualify as that any more) - I have limited experience when it comes to equipment. So it's awesome to have other people jump in with their experiences. I truly appreciate it, and glad to have you aboard!
I was thinking of this same technique - biasing both runners towards the outside edges of the slots, as also a way to deal with seasonal swelling of the runners. This way the sled will run straight and true, but there's the slightest gap on the inside edge of the runners for the wood to swell when it gets humid again (Houston weather here).
Thanks Dan, I really like your videos…you present them so clearly and simply, they are a pleasure to watch; and you don’t have that annoying music that distracts from your instructive style. I am subscribed to over 50 woodworking channels and yours is probably my favorite. 👍🏻
i fought the Craftsman tab issue, and just ground them off. MUCH easier. Then to cut runners..realized extruded shelf strips for wall mounting are the perfect size, depth, and rigidity to work very well for runners, plus predrilled for counter sinking. Some strips are narrower and cheap extruded alum, so use your calipers and measure closely. once you find some that give you a good fit, there is no more swelling or twisting and you have a better runner and buying these runner strips are much less $ alot less hassle than creeping up or down with your fence. You probably have strips leftover from previous shelving projects too.
Today I went to build a sled for my Ryobi table saw when I noticed that this particular table saw has "tabs" inside the runners. The runners are not open as I have seen in most of the videos. This made creating a runner for this brand of table saw a bit different. To solve the problem, so cut my strips, then set the depth of the blade and cut slots in the runners sides. This allowed me to perfectly slide my runners into the miter slot and was then able to build the sled. Thanks for the videos.
Great explanation. I've recently bought a table saw and was looking for some guidance to make a cross cut sled. Find a LOT of videos on that, but NO ONE explain this issue as this video. Congratulations.
Awesome - glad to help! If you haven't already, check out the video of my cross-cut sled that works with a blade guard: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-cQINXsn2QBk.html 😄
This video is exactly what I was looking for and more. I've been watching RU-vid woodworking videos for a couple of years now, both to learn more and to vicariously craft since my children leave very little time for it. :-) This is my first time watching one of your videos, and I appreciate your instructional vs. entertaining approach. You took the time to explain what you were doing several ways with several materials, and even explained wood expansion. Many other RU-vidrs explain that leaving room is important, but this is the first time I've seen the direction explained. Nicely done! Keep it up. Subscribed!
Thanks, I really appreciate it! And that's what bugs me about a lot of other videos. They shouldn't assume I know what they're talking about. Because if I *did*, I probably wouldn't be watching the video! 😛 Anyway, glad to have you aboard.
There's a lot of good information, well explained, in this video. Allow me to add a suggestion for those wanting to use solid wood for their runners: Don't try to cut them to fit perfectly. Instead, make the fit of the runners adjustable in the following manner. Cut the runners so they are a little loose -- say 1/16". Then, on each end, cut a thin kerf running vertically (from the top to the bottom of the runner) about 2" long. Make the kerf about 1/4" from one side of the runner. It doesn't matter which side as long as kerf at each end of the runner are on the SAME side. You can use a bandsaw or a hand saw to make the kerfs. Then, you can drive a small screw into the end grain of the kerf as a wedge to expand the 'thin side' of the runner outward to achieve a perfect fit. Not only is this faster than trying to cut the runners to the exact perfect size, it allows you to adjust the fit for changes in humidity. Yes, one side of the runner will only make contact with the miter slot at each end. However, the other side -- the straight side -- will be in contact with the miter slot for its entire length. Since your sled will always be referencing off the same side of the miter slot (it doesn't matter which side, but I always use the side closest to the blade as my 'reference side' of the runner), you'll have consistent accuracy.
Thanks for the comment! I thought about doing that, but in the end I just use plywood for the runners, and I haven't had any issues. But it's certainly a viable method, for sure. Thanks for sharing. 😄
Channel is coming on leaps and bounds now Dan. Thank you . i just had an idea make a set of runners from UHMW and use that as a template , using that as a template and route as many runners as you need. Yes I am scared of table saws lol
Thanks! Good idea, although I'm not sure how closely the final result matches the template. When it comes to runners, a few thousands of an inch can make a big difference. But by all means, give it a shot! 😄
Awesome! Make sure you see my video(s) on Cross Cut Sleds. Here's a good place to start: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-b-65Bs5Yi0w.html
New suscriber here! Fantastic explanation, very informative. And, as a plus for me (English is'nt my mother language, as you can see :-), you have a very clear speech, then I can understand without subs. BIG THX!
Cheap (relatively) easy to make runners: Go to the orange or the blue store and buy a 3 foot length of 3/4 x 3/4 square aluminum tube. Rip it into two U-shaped channels. Drill the channels every few inches. Sand the cut edges. Apply double sided tape to the face. Lay then in your miter slots with the legs facing down. Shim to slightly above your table with coins or washers or whatever. They should be a good fit in your miter slots. No bows, no warps. Better than UHMW plastic - cheaper and not floppy. If there is any play at all on your saw, shim them to their outermost edges with paper or business cards or playing cards. These two edges are the only ones that matter if you're using double runners. Attach your sled in any way you see fit.
Hi Dan, stumpy nubs suggests to use a plastic cutting board for the runner, and Matthias ran a dado in the base of his sled to keep the runner straight, all of which are good ideas. Just thought I’d mention this, thanks again for the videos, Sam.
Thanks! I've seen both those videos, so I know what you're talking about. And I love the fact you mentioned them. Let me see if I can explain why I didn't talk about those things... When I tried a cutting board, it kind of melted along the edges where I was cutting it. I don't know if I was using the wrong type of plastic cutting board or not, but since I had that problem, I decided not to mention cutting boards in the video. Not sure whether that was a good decision or not. I understand why Matthias cut the dado, but it just doesn't seem necessary. I know that questioning Matthias' logic is probably asking for trouble, because he's one of the smartest people I've ever watched on RU-vid, and I absolutely *love* his channels, but still, I have to be true to myself, and as I said, I just don't see the need. So that's my reasons for not including those things in the video, but as I said, I appreciate the fact you brought them up! Thanks again.
I’ve had that same problem cutting UHMW cutting boards on the table saw. The edge melts and the chips don’t detach fully or the stick back on b/c they’re hot. I haven’t tried the bandsaw yet, maybe on a slow speed it will work.
The Newbie Woodworker: Even if there’s some duplication of what others have said, which is actually almost impossible to avoid if you’re adding to the general knowledge of the topic, you always then manage to usefully expand on what others have said, making your videos interesting and informative.
Thanks! That's actually my goal in these videos, to make sure the details are covered. That's where I struggled the most when I started, so I wanted to help others not to have to struggle so much. I've also got some new stuff coming up that I really haven't seen anywhere else, so that should be interesting. Thanks again.
Thanks Dan, I always enjoy. Your channel and always pick up a tip or something I didn’t know. I’m more new to woodworking so any and all tips are appreciated. I have a Ryobi table saw and the runners are wierd as heck. They are not just a straight line...they “had” these little grooves that came out at several places on the runners. I eventually had to cut those grooves out just to be able to make the runners for my cross cut sled I made. It’s hard to understand but next time your at Home Depot look at they’re table saw runners. Thanks again Dan
Thanks, and you're welcome. I just looked up a picture of those slots, and you're right, they're very strange. I found a few places where people said they cut the tabs off theirs off also. I wonder what the heck Ryobi was thinking?
I bought ryobi saw but noted two different models. One had more normal slots. Guess which I bought. On the other hand, neither will accept dado blades.
I found out the hard way about the ryobi table saw. I’m in the process of making my sled. Trying to avoid grinding the tabs I made some T tracks out of oak. Someone could make a lot of money machining rails for these saws apparently this same top is on craftsman and other saws.
The Newbie Woodworker I’ve asked myself that same question about what they were thinking but man I have no idea. Here is was a “newbie” and still am and trying to make a crosscut sled with runners like that!! It was the hardest thing I had ever tried for sure.
Another way to sneak up on a slightly wide board is to put tape on the side of your fence. Clear packing tape is between .0005 for the very cheap stuff to .0015 for the heavy duty tape. The beige masking tape I measured at .005 and a business card is just over .015.
Great video. Runners seem easy in theory to create but I've had some confusion over specifics, and most jig videos kinda gloss over the creating the runner part.
Thanks! Yeah, I was very frustrated with videos that said "First, make a runner" without giving details. It reminded me of an old Steve Martin routine: "How to make a million dollars. First, get a million dollars..." Glad I could help. 😄
Thanks! There's lots of box joint jig videos, although I have to admit that one of the reasons I started this channel was my frustration at how often those videos left out important information. "I can do better than that!" Of course, I still haven't gotten around to actually making a video about them. 😏 Good luck! 😄
Have you considered drilling holes in the runners first, and then using double-sided tape to mount the runners, followed by the screws to cut out the drying time of the glue?
I saw a good suggestion for positioning the runner, do the same to start but use double sided tape on the runner. Once stuck you carefully turn it over and drill pilot holes and use screws , make sure to countersink them or use flathead screws. You could drill small slots in the runner before positioning and have some adjustment in them. Sleds made with runners and a backstop at a precise angle would work for repetitive cutting of angles. How about a sled that can be adjusted to different angles other backstop?
Thanks! Glad to help. Love your user name. There's a story there, I suspect. The "1951" is fairly obvious. What about valvelifter"? I mean, I understand valves being "lifted", but is there a specific reason you chose that name? Just curious.
I used to do some motorcycle club racing & had an old BSA 500 cc single cylinder which had a valve lifter (decompression) to aid starting and my mates tagged me with the nickname Valvelifter 😂
Hey Dan, Thank you for another very informative Newbie video. Also, thank you for clearing up the mystery of whatever happened to the "Micro-Adjuster for the table saw fence jig". In your, Making Table Saw Runners video back in December 2017 you said (3:18) that would be your next video. I see that you made the jig, just not the video. I hope you make the video (7:00) "someday" "maybe". Just kidding. I know it takes a lot of time and effort to keep informing and entertaining us RU-vidrs. I really appreciate and enjoy your videos. Please keep them coming. Thanks again.
Ray, thanks for the comment! I actually started that video way back when, but I couldn't figure out how to describe certain parts of it. Oh, wow - inspiration just hit! I was just typing out the problems I was having, and the solution just came to me. That's so cool! OK, no promises, but I think I've got a solution. Now I have to drop everything else and give it a try. Thanks, man!! :)
easiest way for me was to walk into my local bigbox store, buy anything 1 inch (.75) and just cut it. I was surprised by how nice the fit was when I bought a 1x6 piece of oak and it just sat right in like a cat in a box.
Wood expands and contracts in both directions (tangentially along the rings and radially to the rings). It is just that the amount of expansion is roughly double (exact amount depends on species of wood) tangentially to radially. So you are not eliminating expansion and contraction by going with quarter-sawn runners, but you are reducing it by as much as about a factor of 2.
Insecure people are easy to spot online. They can always be found trying to correct others. In the hopes of shining the spotlight on themselves... It makes them feel all cozy and warm... lol
@@jason4547 I agree 100%. I've met them, and at times I have been them. 🙄But in this case, I don't mind the clarification. Especially because I knew I should have said "reduced" or something like that. And honestly, I thought I *had* changed my script to say this, but if I did, I never re-recorded that part. So this one's all on me. 😛With that said, thanks for the support! It can get lonely out here sometimes. 😄
@@TheNewbieWoodworker Imo.... You did a excellent job simplifing a complicated subject... "True Genius lies within simplicity"... It's easy to over complicate something such as this. It takes real skill tho to sucessfuly simplfy something that's complicated to others, such as you did... And for that I thank you
@@jason4547 Thanks! That means a lot! I wish I was having that same stroke of genius on my current video. I feel like I talk a lot and don't explain much. 😄But I'll whittle it down to the essentials. I hope. 🙄
like your site here. I have had my best luck with baltic birch plywood for runners. I have tried microjig and incra runners but i can't get them to work as good as baltic birch. keep up the good videos.
Thanks, and interesting! I found MicroJig runners to work pretty well, but I guess it may be different on different saws. But I agree - Baltic Birch runners are doing really well for me. Thanks for the comment!
Thanks! Glad I could help. I call it the University of RU-vid. Can't tell you how much I've learned from RU-vid videos over the years, so I'm thrilled to give back some. :)
Can you do a video on ripping bevel cuts on the table saw? Its the measuring that I have the worst time with. For example I have a 6” board and I want two equal boards from it. How do you measure for that cut? I can never get it right. Any help with that would make my world. Thank you for all you do.
I've seen where people stick tape against the fence. then it shifts it by the tapes thickness. Could do that, then you don't have to adjust the fence and build up the layers until it fits
Thanks. I would think pallet wood might expand and contract too much, but it'll be interesting to see. If nothing else, it'll make a good video, right? Let me know if you post a video about it. If you do, you should probably leave yourself an opening to revisit the subject, in case you experience issues with the wood changing size in the humidity. Like I said, keep me posted!
Are you ok if I quote this conversation in a Q&A video? I'll mention your channel and the specific video, leave a link to the video in my shownotes I'll basically read the comment I left you, read your response and then verbally explain that pallet wood is just like any other type of wood and that in my opinion there should be no cause for any abnormal size changes other than the fact that it's usually very dry older wood. Very cool, very positive and very professional. Essentially I'll give you a shout out and anyone interested will go check out your channel. I'm leaving this as a comment but will also try to send you a direct email via your YT contact function.
Pallet wood is often pine, so wouldn’t be great. However, some pallets are made from red oak which would work very well. The oak ones tend to be darker in color and much heavier.
A note about attaching UHMW plastic runners. The hole you drill in the plastic should allow for the screw to go through the plastic and not bite into it. I learned the hard way (actually, it wasn't hard at all) that the plastic will expand from the screw, rendering your runner too snug to slide easily.
Hey Dan, I've come into an old Craftsman contractor saw, with a miter slot shape I've never seen before. It's not the tabbed kind, and not the upside-down T kind. The slot width is 5/8", and the included miter gauge has a piece of U bar for the runner, which is oriented like an upside down U, and the slot itself has a hump running along the middle that the U straddles. There's not really enough of this upside down U shape to the slot below the plane of the table top to fit much wood into. I might be able to make a 5/8" runner and then route out a dado along the bottom to straddle that hump, but it would have to be thin 'legs' and a thin top, like the metal U bar, which would be very weak in even a hardwood, and prone to snapping off. I don't think the hump can be ground out of the slots, as I think it would leave a long hole in the bottom (have to measure to be sure, but I think I'm right about that). I guess I'm limited to finding and using metal U bar for my runners, but wondered if you have any thoughts on a wood option, something I could fabricate as needed? I've just never seen this shape of slot outside of this Craftsman table saw. (EDIT: It's a 137-221940, 10", 2.5hp, 5,000rpm, but the online user manuals I've seen don't show enough detail to see the miter slots up close. Anyway, just wondered if you've seen such a beast, or have any ideas on shop-made runners for this oddball slot shape?)
Wow, that sounds really strange! A couple of thoughts off the top of my head: I can't imagine a wood solution that would work (but see my last thoughts below). But maybe UHMW plastic? Or else aluminum, which is pretty easy to use like wood, except for the shavings that go all over the place. But if the slot is consistent, and the included miter gauge fits the slot well, I'd consider finding out if you could find a metal shop that could duplicate it, for hopefully not much money. I don't know if that's possible or not, though. That's all I got, other than to wonder if you actually need it to be shaped like that? A runner doesn't have to go all the way to the bottom of the slot... Anyway, good luck!
@@TheNewbieWoodworker Thanks for the reply, Dan! Yeah, beats all I ever saw (no pun intended). They're 5/8", super shallow, with that hump. It's like Sears tried on purpose to design a table saw you couldn't make your own runners for, since it doesn't seem to have helped them any on the production cost over a traditional 3/4" slot width and shape -- if anything this was more expensive to cast, since someone had to tool up for this oddball design that doesn't appear to be on any other saw. There are some 5/8" aluminum U channel suppliers out there, and I may go that way, but really liked the idea of milling my own somehow, as I have on easier table saws. I may make a compression mold out of melamine and clamps, grab some HDPE bottles/jugs (I haven't worked with UHMW), the old heat gun, and just make something from that I can mill down. With the thin dimensions I'd have to use for the 'legs', I'm afraid hardwood, while strong, might be too brittle. HDPE seems like it would be strong, yet with enough 'give' to not snap if I set the sled down too hard on something, plus would be really slick action in the slot.
Oh, just had another idea! Polyester body filler (a.k.a., 'bondo'), using the actual miter slot as a mold. They make a variety of that stuff (or used to) that had fibers in it to resist cracking. Put some kind of release agent in the slots (WD-40, paste wax, etc.), masking tape on the table top along their edges, and spread the bondo in the miter slots, flush with the table top or a little below. Sand off some thickness from the top, so the bottom profile won't drag in the slot. I'm thinking that's the answer to my problem! Plus, one could make a ton of those runners, just with a quart can of the stuff!
@@JusBidniss Those are some great ideas! There's other stuff that can be molded like that too, so if one thing doesn't work, something else might. Good luck and if you get something working, let me know so I can celebrate with you. 😄
I noticed that your slots are T-Slots just like my Craftsman tablesaw. Making runners for it has been a challenge for me. So, what you're basically suggesting is to NOT bother with the t-slot? Just raise the runner so it fits inside of it? If so, that is GREAT!
Your videos always inspire me. My question is your you make your table saw sleds with one runner. Many sleds I have seen have 2, one for each slot. Do you have any issues using only one runner?
Thanks! I don't personally have any issues with just one runner, but then again, my miter slots are really good. My thinking has always been that if it works with one, why add another? But if I needed another, I would certainly add it. There's nothing wrong with having two.
@@edmundhayes7982 Thank you, but don't trust everything I say! I can be blind to the obvious sometimes. 😳How about "trust, but verify" - make it with one runner, but double-check to make sure it's stable. Besides, some of that will depend on how accurately you cut the runner. In any case, you can always add another runner if you need to. 🙂I do appreciate your confidence in me, though. Thanks!
I expected you to use two runners. With one on each side, after you have chocked them up with spacers, I think that you could wedge them towards the centre to eliminate any slop from too-narrow runners. Taper the far side tips to ensure they drop into the mitre slots more readily.
Thanks 👍👏👏👏 Why do you call them machine screws? They are in fact metric screws. Can i use 10 mm thick plexiglass to make runners? My slots are deep enough.
When I was growing up, we used to call anything that wasn't pointed a bolt. Nowadays, I just call them what they were labeled when I bought them - machine screws - which is what they're called at Home Depot (and some online stores). I personally wouldn't use plexiglass - it seems kind of brittle to me. But UHMW plastic would a good choice.
Cutting thin strips on a table saw: Simples. I now have very thin fingers😂 Extra: Wait 9:45 ….You spent a painstaking time re-sawing those strips accurate to a couple of thou…THEN you clean up the sides with glass paper😳. In fact…When sizing the fit and it is very close…Why not just stroke the strip along a sheet of 600 grit on a flat surface (glass) instead of fence tapping and re-sawing?? Inspiring video, thank you👍
Thanks! I explain the purpose here - this link should take you to the explanation (I hope): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-b-65Bs5Yi0w.html
UHMW is way too expensive for cutting boards. That's analogous to making cutting boards out of Honduran mahogany. It'll work, but there isn't any point. ;) I think if you look into it further you'll find that most of them are actually HDPE. It's also dimensionally stable and will work great for runners.
@@fisharmor UHMW (PE500 and PE1000) and HDPE (PE300) are both polyethylene. They're practically the same thing. HDPE just has a slightly lower tensile strength.
Thanks. I have to laugh, because I triple-checked to make sure I was right when I made the video, and nobody else has said I got it wrong (as far as I remember), but I just did a search and the first hit I found said it was the other way. 😂But I think they're wrong. Check out this article: workshopcompanion.com/KnowHow/Design/Nature_of_Wood/2_Wood_Movement/2_Wood_Movement.htm. Check the section on "Direction of Movement". 🤞
@@TheNewbieWoodworker wow this is really interesting. this sort of defies everything i've ever seen and been told. thanks for responding with this! very interesting!
I wrote a blog article on it: thenewbiewoodworker.com/2018/05/07/cross-cut-sleds-why-i-only-use-one-runner.html. Let me know if you still have questions.
My table saw has a mitre slot with two “tabs” on each slot. It’s hard to describe, but each tab is about 2 inches long and reduces the width of the mitre by about 1/8” on each side. Any suggestions for making a runner? Great video, btw.
