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The Signal Path Blog I am afraid that it will not be enough. They already started going into the personal direction of "one dumb videoblogger that doesn't know shit". The only way to make the shut up is to have scientific facts at every corner (i.e. at every reputable videoblogger). Currently its two voices and people chose which to believe. But if its one insane voice against a wall of accurate reality, then its hard to make a wrong choice.

Dennis Lubert I am afraid that even that will not be enough, there always will be people that will believe to what they say (you see how many people believe in free energy, solar roadways, thorium powered car, over unity devices...). No matter how many scientific fact you present to some people (I will dare to say majority) will always believe more to good advertisement and to people who tell them them stories they want to hear. I understand that for people which are watching this channel and similar ones are perfectly clear that they started from false premise in their claims about product, but for most other people that is not fact (and that is people they will buy their product). I am only glad that someone made record of their mistakes (false claims) and it will be set in history that not all people in 21 century was blind to believe only to advertisement

The Signal Path Blog Not to distract from your original comment (I agree by the way), but I just caught these guys boosting their page with fake accounts. I just posted the info to this page 15 mins or so ago. Once again, sorry for using your comment to direct attention to my comment. I'm so far down the list and I want people to see what a bunch of scammers these guys are.

***** Thanks, it sounds A LOT like the conversation I had. I posted my capture as well.

The Signal Path Blog The best he can do because he is dealing with dumbasses is making the real dumb test, buying a couple of them, showing the garbage this product is and GAME OVER. He walked on. No power supplies, no explanations, no funny videos responding with BS. check the real deal for once. Because its gonna to fail, THEY are gonna to fail and no other video response from them will pop up. Check the real deal, and kill them for once. AVG consumer doestn know about power supplies, ESR, loading curves, scopes etc. AVG consumer could be pranked by videos like Dave shown. So, got to the same level. Make a CONSUMER ORIENTED VIDEO. The real deal and real facts sooo dumb and soooo hobby and soooo ghetto that anybody can figure aout that this product is a cmplete SCAM

Lance Pickup Terrific!

mart fart I think they've dispatched "Nature Man"! Watch out Dave he's coming. Crikey mate! Yeah sorry, blame Nature Man.

William Hayden I heard Dave is so strong he can defend himself with nothing but his letter opener.

Darren Jacobson If I was wrong I would have been hounded down in my original video by my engineering audience who are every Johnny on the spot to pick out faults in my videos (as engineers do, it's a good thing). I don't want people to take my word for it, investigate and confirm yourself, this is pretty easy stuff to debunk.

EEVblog Yeah, it is easy to debunk, even before my electronics courses in school I understood the behaviour of batteries.

eletronic engeniring i think. big different between eletrical and eletronic engeniring

Darren Jacobson I submitted a report with indegogo (linked your first video in the claim, Dave, I hope you don't mind). I'm not hopeful it will change anything, but at least I can say I tried. It very obviously goes against their terms of service, " If the Campaign is claiming to do the impossible or it's just plain phony, don't post it."

Darren Jacobson you dont even need to be a electronics guy. I'm in computer sciences and do this as a hobby. My oscilloscope is better compensated that that one, and it was pretty obvious this was bs. seroiusly, ESR, the monkey died at 0.4V per cell, you have two batteries at 1.2V open circuit, with say a bunch of esr, you plug them in. Start the monkey, current with cause them to fall below 0.4V. Had they measured the voltage at the terminals it would have measured less than what they used in the power supply. It would have been suicide. But obviously they wuoldnt do it because this is all a scam. That soldering iron (a cheap one, not a hakko or goot one), all that mess of empty circuit boards and wires, that uncompensated oscilloscope hooked to its internal square wave.....not to mention in every example they appeal to emotions by showing it would be cool so that KIDS toys would last longer. (target market: women, old people, idiots that like buying niche gadgets) EEVblog idea for dave. you could do that now that i think about it. Do it with the power supply, then put some almost dead bateries with 1.2V "of energy", measure voltage at the terminals, show that its below that of the power supply. Put some fresh ones, let them drain, meassure voltage, they should die at the same voltage of the power supply. It shouldnt take too long to do with some toy. Simple and shows what they didnt, and proves you were right. There's nothing else left for them to use as an excuse. Anything else is an obvious lie for anyone, even non savvy people..

Mike Whitenton It might be this one www.especialneeds.com/switch-rewards-adapted-magic-monkey.html this one looks a bit different..not sure www.amazon.com/Westminster-Toys-Magic-Toy-Monkey/dp/B0000V4H4O/

Mike Whitenton Dave mentions the surge required to start the toy.

+William Hayden I must have missed that. I was pretty tired when I watched the video.

I was too busy laughing. With so many golden nuggets buried in that video I had to watch it twice.

vwestlife O_o Laughing so hard - I think I just popped a tube. Can't wait for this one. Get ready Dave EEVblog .

Battery manufacturers HATE him!

+vwestlife They probably will release it. My bet is a combined PFM/charge-pump integrated DC-DC converter. Like those advanced Maxim micropower ones. They're probably using the sleeve as the capacitor to keep it extra small. Now, if they manage to explain how a DC-DC step-up (not even going into PFM vs charge-pump details) works to layman without making errors, color me surprised.

Gordon Freeman At least, they didn't create resonance cascade there.

pvc988 you sure about that? to me it looks like their brains got transported to Xen quite a few months ago...

+pvc988 I never thought I'd even see a resonance cascade, let alone create one!

From Brad Jones Again; +Alexander Hiller Come see me in person, or shut the fuck up. I told you my name, school, and specific building at the school. You can catch me coming in or out of classes. I had a long phone conversation with the fan page community last night and I am proud to say I am friends with the group. I am an engineering student and Buruss building is where all math classes are. I am not a graduate yet, which is why I asked for an intern. And I already knew about the Batteriser team at my school and I wanted...

Also his RU-vid account is ONE day old and he is subscribed only to Batteriser.

***** Yeah, it's a real hobby level mistake!

Even by the age of 5 I had learned at least this much about batteries and voltage. Can not say that I understood the reason, much less the theory, at that age, but even a child can observe the effect in practice with nothing more than some old batteries, a toy, and a cheap meter. You also quickly learn that batteries too weak for one toy will work just fine in a lower drain toy. Dave, do not let them get you too worked up. Some stupidity is beyond a cure, especially when money is involved. I did love that workbench though, I have known very few EEs or hobbyists with such neat workbenches loaded with nothing but shiny, never touched, new gear! I have to clear a space just to set a project down these days between my electronics and radio gear.

Brant Martin Yeah I should have mentioned that. But the whole point of the video was to show how you can detect cutoff voltage in a product with a PSU. The device is kinda irrelevant.

Brant Martin Even the orientation of the toy is different among the two tests. It might even continue working with batteries if it was upright.

Brant Martin I suspect it'll current limit at around 200mA [if that]

Brant Martin Note that @ 0.9V the motor is taking more than 800mA, so even when voltage is low, motor got enough current (lets say torque) to keep doing the job. Like Dave said, 1.2V of a dead battery is NOTHING, once you turn on the monkey ..... current would probably be around 200mA or less and voltage less than 0.9, so motor doesnt give a sh1t. They did it on purpose, because on a low power device like a thermometer or calculator, the would have failed this test This people never use a car ??????????. Car bsattery at 11.9V (WOW, I have my 12V) is useless and you cant even crank the car, but yes, you can turn on the radio =)

Mike Whitenton Yeah, I wondered if they were like audiophools and just believed in their product despite logic telling them it was BS or if they were actually scammers. After seeing that video I believe them to be firmly in the latter camp.

sayresy Devino LOL! Exactly! they are super scammers!

sayresy Devino they are a successful company... they've just expanded and bought some new equipment ;)

code123ns No doubt - but that workstation was BOGUS. .A very funny vid from EEVblog tho..

sayresy Devino how in the hell do younot leave tool clutter?! lol i tidy my workshop probably 1ce per week and within 24hrs it looks like a bomb hit it :P

sn0wchyld Lol I share a workshop with a scotsman that gets mighty angry when tools are left lying around..

Michel Satoer Done.

Michel Satoer Great idea... Love it... HaHa

Dave rips him another battery holder. :-p

gorillaau There would fit a D cell battery pack ;)

+gorillaau Hahahaha! Hey, it that the batteriser guys head sticking out of the new hole? 😁😁😁

GauravA42 You know something, I would probably make the same mistake this guy did, if I hadn't seen this video. But then, I'm not an EE professional. I'm not even a hobbiest by Dave's definition. I'm just a guy who thinks electronics is cool, and tries his damnedest to learn, but always seems to end up wrong.

Keylitho I supported their campaign just to get a set of them to make a video about to debunk their ridiculous claims. IIRC, the one I got comes with a huge lot of batteries so I'd totally be willing to mail Dave some if someone doesn't beat me to it. That's assuming they ever mail out their products....

TechnologyCatalyst watch out, Batteriser read Dave's comment section, they may even cancel your order to avoid that

Keylitho there is no need, really

I hope Dave gets enough of these to test a large battery pack made up of 6 or more cells in series. It would be interesting to see what happens when the cell with the lowest capacity is "finally depleted". What will it do if the other cells continue to force current through it? Will all current stop flowing? Will the depleted battery become damaged? Will it fail catastrophically? Will one or more of the Baterisers become damaged by the (relatively) high voltage that can be available? How would the Bateriser fail? Catastrophically? I love it when Dave tortures stuff :-)

+Robert Horwat Pretty pathetic huh?

+EEVblog nothing says trustworthy more than paying people to dislike an amateur youtuber.

What's so stupid about it is that a like or dislike on a video counts as the same thing with regard to ratings, it counts as viewer interaction. All they did by paying for a bunch of dislikes is to increase the videos' visibility.

@@spudhead169 I think the idea was to make it so that people who are looking at investing indiegogo or whatever, and who are looking for information on the product before making the decision (and as far as I know, even until now most of their capital has come from investors, not any sales, though I may be mistaken on that) will see a video "debunking" have a large ratio of dislikes, hopefully probably discouraging them from taking to heart any of the (completely true and accurate) argumentsresented here. Essentially, they just want to put juuuuuust enough doubt in someones' head that Bateroo's own fuzzy feel good marketing will overshadw the fact that scientists have shown in excrutiating detail why such a thing isn't near as special as they'd like you to believe. Again, people want to assume the scenarios that make them feel the best about things in general, and a message of "we made this gizmo that no one else ever thought of which makes disposable batteries last 8x longer, and its gonna save the environment and hurt 'Big Battery' and you're guaranteed to go to Heaven if you give us money" will, to a non-skeptical mind, outweigh a message of "this sort of thing has been known about for a long time, this circuit has probably been theorized in textbooks for decades, if not a century, and while it may well ~work~, it won't be nearly as effective at doing what t's supposed to, and the reason it hasn't already been done isn't that no one wanted to help the environment before, or hurt big battery, but rather that due to real world engineering constraints, it's just too little benefit to be bothered". That's just my feeling, anyway. At the time, they were crowdfunding and getting investors like mad, and having videos freely available from reputable sources demonstrating fully why such a product will function, just not even remotely close to as well as these folk say, could seriously hamper efforts to sucker people in, so at least putting a reason on he videos page to be able to discount the claims made without having to think about it (ie. "oh, this video says it's debunking the batteriser, but it does have a ton of dislikes, so they must have been biased or just done improper arguments, so I don't have to watch it and can continue to feel warm and fuzzy about saving the planet by giving these people money").

Gordon Freeman Oh, hi there brother.

Gordon Freeman Greetings fellow nerd :-)

Gordon Freeman But who is the real Gordon and who is the evil clone?!

foxman105 No one knows, the clone is so good even he doesn't know he's a clone :-)

Gordon Freeman the moment when you find someone else with you very same name and avatar on youtube......

A bit lengthy, but man he is good. I laughed a bit too...thx for sharing Anool!

I see his point. An academic made a blunder... I'm not as surprised as he is.

Justin Shaw You need to follow the back story. The Batteriser guys have been making crazy claims re. their product. It's been going back and forth for a while.

Ok, now I get it. He is rebutting the dolt's rebuttal. Hence the animation.

ZiGa:S Thanks. I hope some people gain some knowledge out of it.

***** you know someone is a con artist when he starts disabling comments and censoring stuff with generic excuses like that. Not that fan MAIL has anything to do with youtube comments......but then they can say "but some comments were NSFW and we want this to be family friendly", and by then you should know they are only using moral excuses to avoid answering to the critique. They are trying to censor anything that could make people see the scam.

***** Hmm, fan mail!? Truth really hurts, doesn't it, hahaha :)

Peo Håkansson A few people have said their comments were deleted too. Guess they can't handle technical questions.

David Richmond They silly thing is they have a half decent product that would be useful in a lot of niche situations. No need for the BS marketing, it would still sell.

EEVblog Hey, they can put that in the marketing blurb: Endorsed by Dave Jones of EEVBlog fame! ("It's half decent! Beauty!")

Alyx BioHaz The thing is the product does work. They could have had a nice niche market for this thing if they just told the truth about it's real capabilities. People would have still bought it.

EEVblog yea, but then, they wouldn´t have that amount of money in return they imagine, hoped, hoping, want to have, ought to have..... As the whole thing is lounched to look like THEEE 21th century cutting edge discovery. And furthermore it´s advertised as that....So they are stuck AND now forced to do something, to have it that way - regadless of its usabilty.....

Output Coupler And if you don't get taught it, you figure it out eventually just dabbling with electronics.

IncreasingVoltage Yep! My guess is would die in the arse because there is no useful energy left in the battery. And their boost converter must draw even more current because of the low load voltage. It's a battery death spiral.

EEVblog It's really funny how a product, which claims to increase battery lifetime, actually does the opposite.

Knuckles the Echidna i actually feel bad for that scope. Imagine you were born an oscilloscope only to be used as electronic "tech" decoration for advertisements sets.....that's a sad oscilloscope if you ask me.

Laharl Krichevskoy That's why a number of oscilloscopes have taken a profound leap off the bench and onto the floor. Of their own volition, of course.

Laharl Krichevskoy I agree, someone eager to learn electronics could have got years of great service out of that scope instead of it being some pointless prop!

Laharl Krichevskoy You made me cry :'(

Jon Sands Yep, good point, done.

Jon Sands Hell yeah! That scope almost killed me!!!

EEVblog the best educator on youtube has responded to my comment, I can die happy now

Eyal Teerosh I couldn't help myself, I feel dirty now.

EEVblog Your Whiteboard DaveCad is the first I really like.

EEVblog I exactly know how are you feeling

EEVblog Their next claim: The Batteriser is made with depleted unobtainium 665, so you won't be able to reproduce our performance in your lab. Are you going to make a video on that too?

Mike Whitenton You could try that, but measuring the no load voltage is *always* misleading.

+EEVblog it's makes for good entertainment Dave, thanks for the laugh.

No load voltages mean very little...let even a dead cell sit long enough and, if there is enough material left to sustain a reaction in excess of internal leakages, even a dead cell can measure near full voltage after awhile. By the time an alkaline is measuring in the vicinity of 1.25V under no load it is pretty well dead already. I would not be surprised if their loaded voltage dropped from 2.5V no-load to closer to 0.1V under load -- you can pretty much bet that they cherry picked some dead batteries just to confuse the average viewer who wants to believe the claims.

EEVblog I get that. When they measured the no load battery the current through the battery was virtually 0A. So 0A across the ISR would be 0V.

Mike Whitenton Correct, and that's why open circuit voltage is misleading. And as Ethan Poole said above, there is complex electrochemisty at play, so you don't know the true energy state of the battery form the open load voltage. Their entire video is a misdirection to muddle PSU-battery non equivalency to product cutoff voltage, which are two different things that need not be associated.

animefreak5757 a boost converter is just a name for dc-dc converter, most devices more modern than the motorised monkey toys already have one, ( to regulate the voltage to various electronics that need a stable voltage) and they work down to .8v a cell, but batteries as they drop voltage are aksed to pull more amps to keep the device running, something that batteriser forget to tell you, and batteries 'drop off the cliff' so cannot provide anything useful when they are dead, at just enough to pulse the screen on a device and die instantly. I have been playing with an external one that can run down to .4v and i was trying some faily dead cells, 2 in series actually so i was pulling each cell to .2v to charge a 5v usb cell phone, in reality mostly dead batteries are already useless and pulling them to .2v each provided a few minutes of boosting to 5v and at very meagre ma for charging, like 50ma for 5 mins was all that was in them

Anthony Cress Thanks. Thumbs up for that beard!

s3tTz Clutching at a straw man!

+e1woqf Batteroo paid a load of Vietnamese youtubers to downvote his videos. Check out his other videos on it.

Matija S As I said, I knew about IR before I hit double digits. This is pretty basic knowledge to anyone in the field. I don't know everything of course, far from it, no one does, the field of electronics is almost infinite. There are many areas of electronics I have zero experience in. But you learn some stuff after having done it for 35+ years. Even if you don't know these things off-hand, any engineer should be able to be inquisitive and resourceful enough to go through the motions of checking claims. Almost anyone with decent electronics knowledge could have debunked this.