El Pianista, the path after the Mirador - Part 3 

Me queda claro después de ver y escuchar en muchos videos, sobre el caso.Las chicas salieron dispuestas para hacer el recorrido del sendero el pianista, y luego regresar a la ciudad.Primero que llevaban ropa muy liviana e inadecuada para entrar a la selva, sin alimentos sin guía turístico que las conduzca, sin conocimientos de un lugar, tan peligroso en muchos aspectos.Estoy convencida que fueron llevadas para internarlas en la selva.Una mente asesina las acechaba.... el horror más grande lo que han tenido quw sufrir, no hay repuestas ni consuelo a sus padres y familiares.

i would think they would be shouting for help a lot.

huh? who says they walked here?

Thanks ! I love Panama, plenty of memories there.

@@Romain_C nice! Yeah Panama is cool! I guess you miss some of our traditional meals 😅….. it is a pity what happened to the girls there in Boquete and it is sad that we will never know what exactly the situation was.

the girls also not

Начинаю верить в ту версию, что они не были в этих каньонах. Дошли до мирадора и вернулись, и таксист возможно их отвёз на источники.

@@K01ibri тоже не верю, что можно добровольно гулять по такой тропе. ( тем более, если на следующий день оплаченный поход с проводником в такие же джунгли).

@@K01ibri Версия не может подняться из времени. Если вы посмотрите на последнюю фотографию Криса, они уже были далеко позади Мирадора. Поэтому они не смогли бы добраться до горячих источников средь белого дня.

Много вариантов чем можно объяснить их желание туда пойти, и фото сделаны явно в тех местах что есть на видео. Раньше когда я разбирался в этой ситуации было понятно что они дошли до первого "обезьянего" моста, и видимо при переходе Крис упала и сильно постарадала, так что не могла передвигаться. Лисан видимо, не смогла бросить подругу одну, чтобы идти за помощью, или и сама пострадала пытаясь помочь подруге. И так они были прикованы к одному месту которое было не видимо с тропы. Во время ночных фото видимо Крис все таки погибла, а Лисан к тому моменту была сильно истощена и не смогла дойти до тропы или по берегу реки до поселений. Все дальнейшие останки найдены на берегах рек, видимо в сезон дождей вода поднималась высоко и смывала их ниже, вплоть до поселения.

Eto karibskij spusk? Kuda jich poneslo,uzhas 😭

The arial drone footage is very informative in regards to the trail. Seeing it from above like this you can clearly see how centuries(?) of travellers have carved the path firmly into the earth and how well defined it is in the landscape. If there is more of this footage to come it will be valuable to learn whether the trail remains as clear as it moves across the meadows, and on towards the cable bridge, and whether this trail steers clear of any heavy forested areas - if a trail has been travelled for centuries like this then it will very likely steer clear of any forests, as such a path will always be created out of the path of least resistance across the landscape. People want to get from one place to the other here by the straightest route possible, so whether the two girls really did make it this far or not the natural lay of the land, and the route, would surely funnel them in the general direction of the bridge, and across open areas. The question still stands then as to why and how it is no one ever saw or heard of them out there... Unless that is, they were _never_ there.

@@davidmullen6011 There should be more video(s) as the guys did go to the bridge.

@Ken Lee I totally agree with you. The key, in my opinion, is along one of these rivers.

@@davidmullen6011 I will publish videos of the trail until the 1rst monkey bridge. If you want to know already, I didn't see any deviation in the trail so it's pretty much the same until the bridge. This area is not a place where you live, it's a place you cross to either go to work in your farm much further away, to go to Boquete from Alto Romero (to buy cheaper food) or for trekking.

I can imagine to get lost, especially if you are not common with the climate in Panama or so on. The Netherlands are very different from any kind of this climate in Panama. No mountains. Rare nature. Rain and cold… they barely had water or food with them. They only had shorts and tops for a maybe short trip. Maybe they dehydrated… also they could got lost because they wanted to explore and got lost at some point. I once got lost at wintertime with my friend in a forest in Germany. No one would believe us, but we got lost for several hours and stranded three hours away from our hotel. Everything is possible if your cycle brakes down or something because you’ve gone too far without recognizing on the right point…

Thank you !

I always wondered if someone lied to them. If someone told them that something interesting was located in a certain area that persuaded them to keep going. Example "Oh, there's a really cool tiki bar in the middle of the forest and there are cabins where you can stay overnight" I just don't understand why these girls would continue on when darkness was approaching. Why didn't they just turn around and go back the way they came?

@@laurieclarkson9180 The last known placing of them is at that stream at 2pm, we know they set on the trail at around 11am so it has taken around three hours to get to this stream. They would have left the summit to get here about thirty minutes ago, and you can imagine it would be fairly hard work climbing back up there again. So at 2pm they would be looking at about three hours to get back to the start of the trail, where they set off, And then they still have to find a bus or taxi to get home... I do think you may have a good point about someone possibly giving them bad advice, which is why they didn't hesitate about heading down the other side as they did. But equally I am also open to the idea that by the time they were on the summit and had taken their photographs someone may have joined them. At that time in the afternoon, between 1pm and 3pm, the trail is probobly at its busiest as farmers and local are returning to their farms and homes from visiting Boquete, and hikers and tourists are returning from their hike and aiming back for Boquete - all of these are trying to get safely home before the sun sets at around 6-7pm. So that window in the afternoon is peak traffic for the Pianista trail for these reasons. The two friends are at the stream for 2pm, it is quite likely they may have passed at least one person by then, indeed if they had carried on walking to the meadows that chance surely moves to be a certainty. But apparently no one saw them. Not one sighting reported of these two distinctive westerners. So you do have to wonder whether the two were either forced off the trail and perhaps along that stream they were last photographed at, or whether there is some flaw in those photographs and how they are arranged...

@@davidmullen6011 I think someone met up with them too. They seemed pretty hell bent to remove their image from the camera too.--That's my suspicion..that the missing photo is a pic of the perpetrator.

Jeez why would someone lie to them?? The most logical and easiest explanation is that they got list.by themselves. They were overconfident. Why do we have to involve others constantly 🤷

@@alexstar5182 They placed emergency calls LONG before they would have ever went off trail or reached any monkey bridges. So obviously something happened... But if they had an injury, well, they would have been stuck on the trail, in which case they would have been found by someone almost immediately. But they weren't found on the trail. So what, did they place a 911 call after getting injured and THEN somehow start stumbling into the jungle off trail? What sense does that make? If they were injured on the trail, which they had to have been because of the timing of the first calls, then they would have been found on the trail immediately, not in the middle of the jungle. So if you ask me, neither foul play or them getting lost or them getting injured- none of them makes any sense.

Agreed. Even the stream in the video by Kris' parents in 2014, assumed to be the stream in photo 508, looks nothing like the stream in the photo.

Totally agree. I also suspect they didn t make it to the place with the cows: they would have taken pics of this cleared area. It s even more true for the second river. I believe something occured between these 2 rivers, but what??

Thank you very much ! For the drone, it depends. If there is a lot of clouds, it's very defficult. I almost lost it during my first flight because I flew inside a cloud and I couldn't see where I was going, and sometimes the drone wanted to land on the cloud because it thought it was the ground. There is also the issues of the hills, it's hard to film behind a mountain because the signal gets weaker. At the first monkey bridge, the winds are very strong. When I flew my drone there, I had a hard time to keep the drone away from the trees. Also, it's hard to film when you are inside a river. You have to have to avoid the trees above to get higher, and often, you can't go very far.

Thanks ! I don't understand why they would keep hiking in that direction toward the monkey bridge. Some people think they could have thought the trail would lead back to Boquete (from miscommunication or ignorance) and took the risk to keep going in the same direction to be back in Boquete not too late, but they seemed pretty well informed about the trail (aside the internet searches, the map app opened, they also went in an hostal to get informations). From the Mirador, you see the cut between Boquete side of the mountain and the vast forest. And when you are down there, you realise you are getting further and further away. If you are at the paddock (on a sunny day), you can even see the islands of Bocas del Toro.

@@Romain_C Hi Romain that's interesting to note what you stated, about Kris and Lisanne's basic knowledge of the route. All the videos, yours included, show that once at the Mirador it is evident where you came from and where you can go next. They did research, and I'm confident that Lisanne would have definitely done so as she had done with all the trip plans, that even her brother told that she was so eager to show. It lends to the credibility that she was a bit cautious than maybe Kris. And out of the two women, Lisanne downloading an offline map to use shows me this. And you are right and make a great point about seeing Boquete in the background. We see it with Kris and Lisanne who both, knowingly, pose in front of it - as sort of "hey this is where we just came from!" - in their photos on the Mirador. No way they would have been confused about the route on the Mirador. One of the sleuths who also reviewed your video exclaimed to me that the 17 seconds drone footage you kindly added was very informative in terms of how difficult and strenuous the hike is/will be once you go past the River 3. It's just not something two inexperienced tourists would take on, given what little they had (food, clothing, equipment). They would both be fatigued given the elevations they have already attempted for nearly 2 hours and 45 minutes, and their adrenaline would have decreased by the time they reached River 3. You can see it with Kris as she looks animated and rushing in photo 505, but by the time we get to 507/508 she is not charging forward with the same energy. It reminded me of something you once said before in your report of your earlier hike of the same trail. "We must put ourselves in context: after 3 hours of walking it is also necessary to anticipate the 3 hours of walking to return...So 3 hours of walking turn into a 6 hour hike. So it's hard to imagine that the girls decided to walk an extra hour because it would have taken 4 hours to walk back, making a total of 8 hours of hiking. In their state of mind of young girls who have just come to hang out, it is unthinkable that they wanted so much to occupy their day to the point of exhausting themselves with additional hours of walking." Btw, I didn't know you could see the islands of Bocas from this meadow area. That's an important detail you spotted, as Hans and Roelie may have never got to see what you did, since they did not report it in their video. Kris and Lisanne had similar weather and IF they made it here, then could also see that they had gone too far now, as Boquete has no ocean. :) And I can see also why Hans and Roelie found it very strange that they did not take photos along this way. From what you just informed us, it was an opportunity for Kris and Lisanne to take a photo of the area and most importantly, since you mentioned it, Bocas islands in the distance. I think that would have reminded them of where they also came from if they figured it out. Even if they did not know that was Bocas islands, I think they would still made photos standing in front of the Bocas islands, like with Boquete on the Mirador (499 and 502), where in photo 502 you could barely see Boquete, but we get the idea of what they're trying to show us. So I also find it very hard to imagine that Kris and Lisanne made no photos at all at River 3 and in this meadow area which would have had nice evening light with some clouds to make general photography interesting for them. The meadow area also looks quite lonely and uninviting, like the areas before you enter the forested trail on the Boquete side. And more of the same thing - a bit boring to be honest. So I don't think they came here because they got lost, that's no longer a theory I entertain after what I have now seen and understood from your work and others as well. For two young, foreign and inexperienced women in this area, it would not have had good vibes with sunset approaching soon, to say the least. I think common sense would just tell Kris and Lisanne that it's time to head back to Miriam's for some dinner. And if they were lost in getting here, they would have ran into someone who, if it was not a malicious person, would have pointed them in the direction of Boquete. Sorry for the long comment. Thank you Romain. Your (Matt and Chris's) work is helping expose a lot of unknown truths about the trail. Keep up the good work!

On the left, it's just a meadow with an enclosure for the cattle, and there was a small cabin in the past. On the left, another meadow leading to a cabine and a mountain (and some cows).

@@Romain_C After seeing much of the trail you've walked, we always see people walking this trail: Cowboys, locals, guides, tourists. In the same way, they always have a place where it is possible to take shelter, they always have an inhabited property nearby. This is not a wild forest isolated from civilization. It's practically impossible to believe these girls got lost! Thinking that an accident may have occurred may still make some sense, but saying that they got lost makes no sense at all!!! Hans Kremers was right, someone kidnapped his daughter and Lisanne, we just don't know who it was yet! Whoever kidnapped these girls must have coerced the girls away from the trail, and certainly didn't use the trail to do so! For if they had walked along the trail threatening and coercing the Dutch, someone would have inevitably witnessed what happened, and there is no testimony where anyone has seen K&L in the company of a third party, either on the trail after the Mirador, or on the pianist's trail. Anyone who wants to find the location of the night shots, their bones or any clues, will have to explore the areas on the flanks of this trail, about 2 or 3 kilometers away from the trail, where the forest is really wild and more isolated. The same goes for that Quetzals trail.

Thank you very much Graham ! About the timing, I will elaborate on it later (article on ImperfectPlan/CamilleG or/and on a video).

Yes, don't worry ;) I don't know who owns them but I assume they will either go back to their farm, or their owner is going to bring them back there.

They didn't fall and didn't even make it to the paddock on their own/unmolested. They would surely have taken photos of that nice spot if so. 👍.

That's very far-fetched. Firstly, because even though climbing up is easier than climbing down, you'd still have to commit to a risky steep climb to get yourself stuck. That would make sense if there had been ice or sleet. To get stuck in a place like that, where you can't come down, you'd have to use your hands to get yourself up or crawl up. Sure, it can happen, but might as well call it a suicide ritual. Also, from experience, exposed places are more terrifying because there are fewer things that can arrest your fall. Here, there's plenty or trees and other things to grab while climbing down. Finally, from experience, leaving a well-marked trail that has such heavy vegetation all around is crazy dare-devil stuff. You go from midly uncomfortable hike to getting scratched, bitten and itchy all over right away from trying to get through all the vegetation around you. What's the risk-benefit for that? There are no vegetation- free plateaus to make it worth it. Any conscious being understands that you would not be able to see anything.

And their bodies magically dismembered, and separated in 20 parts from their heads according to Fiscal Betzaida.

​@@gfexcThat jungle is full of cougars and jaguars ffs.

@@wassupMannn You think a cougar can break a human pelvis? Or swallow a skull whole? Please learn about the behavior of cougars and jaguars. Since the beginning of humanity, they have avoided human contact. They don' t see live or dead humans as food. Don't take my word for it. Research it. There are tons of people walking on that trail every day. Do you know how many people have been eaten by cougars and jaguars in Panama at least in the last 70 years? 0. They only eat Dutch girls, according to some. That sounds good....but that's not the truth. Truth is: animal teeth maks on human remains are very easy to ascertain. In this case, there are none in the lab report. So no animals have anything to do with this. What's with the cougars and jaguars anyway, I thought the Ministerio Público said they drowned. 😱

@@gfexc The jaguar has the strongest bite among cats, capable of breaking an alligator's skull. Recently there was released a video on youtube made on the "Ramal do Pau Rosa in Manaus Brazil". A jaguar attacked a hunter and ripped off the sternum and some ribs, leaving the man with his heart exposed... But I don't think the Dutch girls were attacked by any animal...

​@@videosdeecologia7468 I think the point is that animals probably fed on the bodies and that's how some body parts ended up separated and eventually washed down stream. That animals fed on the remains (Insects at least) is obviously true but I believe body parts were placed down river to lead investigators away from the site where the girls died (much further upstream). Why? Either because that location was close to some illicit activity (drugs, smuggling, etc.) or the location could implicate somebody (they were seen in the area around the time the girls disappeared). Placing the backpack and body parts near the monkey bridges creates the possibility that is where the girls perished.

Hi, thanks ! No they stopped at a place further. I didn't stop there, I even went to the caribbean (and made a stop in Alto Romero). I will publish a walkthrough to the 1rst monkey bridge.

Thanks for going further. I could imagine that the girls didn’t stop at the place their parents gave up / stopped. I think they went further like you. The fotos seem so.

Isn't there a selfie picture of them both on top of El Mirador? Looks like they did reach the top.

Sorry to make you wait, I'll try to publish but I'm very busy now related to the project (I will talk about it when it's done).

Thank you very much ! On that path, I didn't see the two branches. I don't know who mapped the trail, but it might have been done by someone who used satellite imagery. So it might have been a mistake. For the rivers, I agree. I would say the night pictures must be on a river the size of river 1 or 3.

Hey! I have an update to make in 1 month maximum, maybe less. Sorry for all that time to wait. Before that, I will try to publish the next part.

@@Romain_C Thank you Romain. Great work!

@@TheVandenbrink Hello, I just came back from Panama (that's why I was busy). I will resume blurring the next part.

@@Romain_C Thank you Romain

Вы это кто? Что знаете? Кто их убил?

Quiénes fueron y cómo sabes? El guía tiene algo que ver con esto?

Thanks ! So actually, that cabine is destroyed but we have close images of it. Couldn't figure out if there was a trail leading to it, but one way is to follow up stream the river. I guess there is also a way by crossing the vegetation and then the river, but I don't know where it would be. So to sum up, I didn't see any trail.

@@Romain_C Thanks! Given the condition of that cabin, I think that the path leading to it must have been swallowed up by vegetation. Or perhaps the bed of the stream has functioned as a secluded path all along..... there must be or must have been an access to that plot of land. Other wise, how would human beings be able to reach the cabin? In the cabin's potrero there is also a footprint of a previous cabin or fenced partition: 8,845978, -82,425099. The footprint is also visible in your map in your link above.

No, porqué esto es antes del mirador, en el mirador se sacaron varias fotos, la ultima fue durante el tramo entre el mirador (aprox 14 hrs) y la llamada a emergencias (aprox 16 :30).

At the mirador there was yes, but not beyond that (not enough to make a call anyway).

@@anniee9112 Thanks for the information !

I believe it was the stream before this in the previous vid.

@@LuddyVonBeat Yes, it looks like it

Я,например,могу в трёх соснах заблудиться)

The place changed quit a lot. My guess would be river 2.

Nossa simmm, até vi um comentário mencionando isso, que as mulheres jovens europeias são mais ingênuas nessa parte, confiam, viajam e exploram sozinhas por aí 😢

@@Karlinha90282 Pois é foram ingênuas demais por isso perderam suas vidas muito triste isso.

L'endroit a beaucoup changé mais je dirais que c'est la petite rivière à la fin de la partie 2. Edit : je pense maintenant plutôt à la 1ère rivière.

@@Romain_C Ok merci, que pensent les guides que tu a engagé concernant cette histoire ? Aucune langue bavarde dans le coin de boquete ? Aucun avis perso prononcé ?

what did they say?

@@alessandradlc2377 O casal francês diz ter ouvido em um posto florestal na trilha dos quetzals, que 4 ou 5 dias depois do desaparecimento das garotas holandesas, um outro turista ouviu gritos femininos na floresta, seguido de um forte som de algo batendo forte contra o chão. Essa testemunha olhou para a direção de onde tinham vindo os gritos e viu 3 homens tentando se esconder por detrás da vegetação, e depois disso ele correu desse lugar. Essa é a narrativa contada pelo casal francês. Essa narrativa é bem coerente com o que parece sugerir as fotos noturnas, que na minha opinião são fotos feitas na borda e no fundo de uma cratera ou buraco profundo. As fraturas encontradas no pé esquerdo de Lisanne e o osso pélvico de Kris quebrado, também sugerem uma queda de uma elevada altura.👍😉

@@eliaslima5506 and but why push them? and the backpack? then went to retrieve the bodies? what a tangled story

@@alessandradlc2377 Empurrar alguém de uma grande altura, serve para simular um acidente. A mochila pode ter ficado com quem empurrou. Não precisaria pegar o corpo inteiro, apenas pedaço para serem espalhados ao longo da trilha. Acredito que foi isso o que aconteceu, mas alguém também usou óxido de cal em determinadas partes do corpo, para acelerar a decomposição, talvez somente os pedaços que foram espalhados ao longo da trilha. Quase cinco meses depois, uma massa de pele de Lisanne foi encontrada e estava quase intacta. Um corpo lançado em um buraco profundo, escuro e de baixa temperatura, deve conservar um corpo por um bom tempo e deixar a decomposição em ritmo lento.

@@eliaslima5506 the skin was of an animal ....

@@steve-ww6ut Totally agree. Plus, they called emergency services around 4pm the first day of the hike and they tried a few more times that first day. So whatever emergency they had, occurred that first day. Then there is activity on their phones for several days after, but no attempts to call emergency services? A cat encounter would definitely prompt me to call emergency number, but I'm guessing since phone activity continued, the cat didn't kill them. They could've called emergency services because they were "lost" but at 4pm, they were photographed in an area where it would've been easy to turn around and go back the way they came. So that doesn't make sense either. Taking a guess, What do YOU think could've prompted them to call emergency services that first day?

@@steve-ww6ut I'm with you on that! I TRULY believe they were victims of foul play. Sometimes I wonder if..when they were in their home country, planning the trip and they sent their applications to the spanish school, Did they include photos of themselves? That possibly caught the eye of a predator that had access to their files? I thought it was strange how, when they arrived, initially the school had messed up their paperwork. They weren't scheduled to arrive for another week or something according to the school's records which kinda screwed things up. They had to find other things to do in the meantime. They disappeared in that meantime.I wonder if someone planned it far ahead? idk..I just wonder about the possibility.

​@@laurieclarkson9180This is very unlikely. Foreign girls disappearing is international news, criminals would not want that attention. Foul play can't be ruled out, could have been opportunistic or a third party contributing to an accident that was subsequently covered up. I think the latter to be more likely ... local gang encounters girls either on trail or near their operation in the jungle, and the girls get frightened and are either chased down the river and/or pushed down a ledge and left to die (to make it look like an accident). When girls aren't found by searchers next few days, bodies and backpack are moved and staged at another location far away where they will be eventually found. If it was straight up murder there is no way the perps would risk anything being found much less the phones and camera.

All these versions, about jaguars and others, are very romantic, but judging by this video, they were more likely to be gored by a cow =) By the way, there is only a fraction of a joke in this joke. In rural areas, such cases (injuries of varying severity from cattle) are not uncommon.

This is quite true, when I was camping in the Pyrenees mountains, someone died because he got too close to a mother cow with a baby calf that she was protecting.

Une petite idée ?

@@Romain_C Oui les faits, par rapport où les restes des 2 filles ont été retrouvé mélangé à d'autres restes humains, bien après le mirador, le lieu où le sac de Lisanne a été découvert par une indigène, en amont de la rivière, tous les effets personnels qui s'y trouvaient, le short de kris à 6kms du mirador. Également les premiers appels au 112 et au 911. Le fait est qu'elles ont paniqué, quelque soit le scénario retenu. Regarder l'intervalle des photos prises depuis le début de leur marche sur le sentier "el pianista". Plusieurs possibilités sont envisageable mais il est vrai que l'accident avec tous ces éléments ne tient pas jusqu'au bout. Cela fait penser à une mise en scène de la part bien évidemment des coupables et/ou des personnes des environ qui les couvriraient. La chute ou la morsure de kris par un serpent est bien sûr possible, mais si c'était le cas, lisanne ne va pas la laisser seule. Et leurs effets disséminés un peut partout dans la jungle ne colle pas. Rappelons que le Costa Rica n'est pas si loin, le traffic d'organes y est très actif comme en Colombie. Il y a aussi ces trois hommes croisé par un des randonneurs américains sur "el pianista" le 1er mars de cette même année, qui visiblement étaient agressifs. Et vous le dites tous, surtout toi romain, quasiment impossible de se perdre sauf si l'on quitte le chemin à cause d'une bonne raison qui les pousse à le faire. La piste criminelle est la plus vraisemblable et la plus gênante pour ce pays qui vie du tourisme. Pour ma part, la photo prise de derrière du crâne de kris me fait penser qu'elle est allongée et inerte et même peut-être déjà morte. L'expression des visages, pour ma part, est très important, et puis la dernière photo de kris quand elle passe la rivière. Tu me dis si je me trompe romain, mais c'est bien loin après le mirador quand même. Pourquoi de leur plein gré, elles auraient été si loin. On entend dire souvent qu'elles pourraient avoir pensé que ce chemin retournait vers le restaurant el pianista mais à ce moment là il était mpossible pour elles de ne pas se tromper pour arriver au mirador. Surprenant, non. Elles avaient bien prévu de revenir après être arrivée au mirador et s'étaient sans doute renseigné soit avant et aussi pendant le trajet sur le chemin à suivre. Elles ne donnent vraiment pas l'impression d'être des écervelés. Elles sont posées, organisées. La aussi, ça ne colle pas. De plus les photos prises ne correspondent pas avec le paysage du chemin après et avant le mirador. C'est soit bien apres, soit à l'ouest.

Merci ! Ça allait encore à ce moment là. Après cette vidéo, il restait encore 8 heures de marche pour atteindre l'endroit où nous allions dormir. Avec 15kg sur le dos, malade et 2 heures de sommeil, j'ai bien douillé lol

@@Romain_C je m’en doute !!!......

gracias por tu español !!....Carmen !!...💃💃💃

en que tramo está la cruz de las chicas ?....

@@clarasanchezgancedo4017 la cruz esta en el mirador

🙏⛏️⛏️⛏️