Elden Ring Fear the Old Lore - The Gloam-Eyed Queen 

I think the ritual used on Melina was Maliketh slapping her around with the rune of death so hard that she lost her body.

That's a very solid theory 👌 I never thought about the gods layer greatsword In that way but it actually makes total sense. The sword still exist after the gloam eyed queens defeat because it was created as a result of the ritual most likely done by Marika after maliketh defeats her maybe ?

She is even called marikas daughter in the game files

Melina has been a theory since very early on. I still think it's the best theory

It’s interesting to say but I feel when we try to get the great sword there’s no interaction or something melina would pop up to say something to you. I wish it would happen with her showing up after you get the weapon.

The purpose she's talking about in that dialogue is the purpose given to her by her mother in the Erdtree - and the purpose she rediscovers when you bring her back to Leyndell.

She also said she is burnt and bodiless. We know Maliketh’s blade burns as it kills. I think he killed (burned) her body, but Marika recovered her spirit and used her as a means to continue her mission.

​@@thetrueconnoisseur She says she is acting on her own volition after Leyndell, saying she is acting outside of her mother's "designs."

@@joshuawinstead7621 She says she's choosing to be burnt for herself, because she has her own vision of the world she wants to emerge from that act. But the dialogue also strongly indicates that her mother's purpose for her was to burn the Erdtree - what's changing is not the act but the intended outcome.

I feel she is lost fragment to marika and she could be the recarnation of the gloam eyed queen.

@Damien Solomon I have a theory that torrent is a goat

@Damien Solomon oh i could see that

The lone wolf ashes are more interesting than they seem. the wolves had once accepted a tarnished in their pack, the "lone wolf" of the ashes. the only tarnished who had any interest in becoming a wolf, who are said to be shadows of the Empyreans, is the Raging Wolf. he wanted to become the shadow of an Empyrean. the question is which Empyrean, answered by the fact that his weapon of choice is the God-slaying blade. If we go with that logic, if the old owner of torrent is Marika, and she used to own those ashes, that were associated to a man who wanted to become the shadow of the Gloam Eyed Queen. I can see Marika being the Queen.

@@Sinha010 There’s a couple things that back this up: 1. The spectral steed whistle is made of a delicate “goldwork”, not just gold, mirroring the Item Description on the Unalloyed Needle. I didn’t think much of it at first but after seeing the flame of frenzy ending, I’ve speculated that the material is Unalloyed Gold. This is backed by the fact that the whistle is still intact after the flame of frenzy is unleashed. We know that Miquella’s needle is made from the same material and has the properties to ward away the effects of the flame of frenzy and rot, which both originate from outer gods. 2. There is evidence that Miquella discovered something in the game known as the primeval current. Torrent is another name for “current.

That’s a interesting theory. Plus there’s connection of maiden riding horse that is in Celtic mythology and I feel it’s connected to marika/melina and torrent

I like this plus it makes sense if she's Marika's twin sister because twins run in her family (Morgott x Mohg, Miquella x Malenia)

Marika is related to life Gloam eye to death Demigods embody runes of the elden ring So did marika and gloam eye

@@Thebrothersfolife I don't think it's days Morgott and Mohg are twins? But that made me think.. What if the GEQ is Marika's sister and, more scandalously, is an Omen like Morgott/Mohg? Makes it possible it runs in Merika's family? That would make sense why so little is said about the GEQ... After the Golden Order is formed, Omen became anathema. Would look bad if Merika's own sister was one.

@@Mortiel they’re 100% twins. It says it on one of their runes, they share the same tower to activate their runes (fun fact: if you defeat them both before restoring their runes they show up side by side) The only difference is that Morgott, though he was shunned by grace chose to try and appease the greater will, he exercised his horns and cast away his accursed blood. This blood is in his sword. Mohg on the other hand fully leaned into his accursed blood and met the Formless mother. Their relationship is paralleled by the twin omen boss fight on the way to their tower. And that’s a possibility, Marika’s sister being an omen. There’s not enough info about some of these characters and it’s kinda frustrating. Hoping for DLC someday.

@@Thebrothersfolife Good call out! I either didn't notice or forgot it says they are twins on Mohg's great rune. And yes, definitely not enough info. Just an amusing speculation.

It is interesting yes. She is also lost fragment to gloam eye queen. Maybe if there was a moment they added after you require the sword she would pop up in the interaction or cutscene

it IS my birthday, and I also love these videos!

I see no lie

They're all the same!! xD

this is flame of frenzy propaganda

All were worshipped in the time of the Ancient Dragons when the Divine Towers were built. The Divine Towers are obviously connected to black flame as it seems to streak down through the air within them. The art on the walls within also seem to depict The Crucible, with a young Elden Beast in its branches. Pressure pads within are decorated with the sun, seemingly associating the sun with The Crucible and Divine Towers. The Ancient Dragons are said to have befriended Godwyn, who is strongly associated with Castle Sol and thus was likely associated with worship of the sun as well seeing as Sol literally means sun. Such dragons also use "primeval lightning", which is red-tinged gold just like the armor of the Crucible Knights and all associated with The Crucible in general. The Ancient Dragons also invented "communion", which is a form of blood sacrifice. An Ancient Dragon corpse can be found at every site of dragon communion, and one such site even exists in the land of Ancient Dragons, Farum Azula. Communion is the term used to refer to both dragon communion and Mohg's worship, and the seal which boosts dragon communion magic is also described as being a "Formless Drakeblood Seal". Thus, we can conclude that dragon communion is most likely an ancient form of Formless Mother worship invented by the Ancient Dragons (who also worshipped The Crucible). The Formless Mother seems to change its followers just as dragon communion and The Crucible does. Misbegotten / Crucible Knights have wings and horns just as The Formless Mother grants Mohg wings and his blood-soaked Albinauric followers horns. Unlike his brother, Mohg has very dark skin, perhaps like the skin of the Magma Wyrms seems to darken as they transform from communion. His wings are bird rather than dragon-like, but birds are strongly associated with dragons and there are many birds as well as statues of a bird diety in Farum Azula. Interestingly, Mohg and The Formless Mother have chosen the ruins of an Uhl palace to make home. Their followers worship the statues of the Uhl god just as they do Mohg, and that lost society also seemed to have worshipped the sun, as well as the rot and poison gods. Depictions of the sun can be found among the religious tablets of that lost society, and their strucures such as the Grand Cloister being populated by rot-kin suggest they also worshipped the scorpion Rot God. Rot is deeply tied to poison, and the Mushroom Crown item description states that both rot and poison were worshipped in a past society. Just as the defeated Great Scorpion served as the vessel of the Rot God, so does the God-Devouring Serpent for the God of Poison. It is likely that the Godskins are the product of The Gloam Eyed Queen (associated with birth) reproducing with the God-Devouring Serpent, just as in the foul rituals which produced the man-serpents. Being born of an empyrean mother, the Godskins are obviously stronger than any other of the Great Serpent's kin. The Serpent Arrow does not read that it resembles a snake, but rather a flying snake. As such, it is likely that the Formless Serpents were children of the God-Devouring Serpent who gained wings from communing with the Formless Mother, just as Mohg did. Them being direct children of the Formless Mother is impossible seeing as she is formless. Mohg requiring a consort of his own also clearly implies that the Formless Mother is not an entity who can fulfill such a role herself. The Coil Shield, which can be found in Mt. Gelmir, is a bronze sculpture of a poisonous snake which was used in gladitorial combat. Maliketh's arena (and Ancient Dragon architecture generally) is clearly of Greco-Roman inspiration and greatly resemlbes the colosseum. In my opinion, the picture being painted is clear. Just as the different factions of The Lands Between competed (even in times of peace) such as in the fight between Malenia and Godrick, there once was a society of cooperating cultures who competed in combat at the arenas spread throughout the map. Led by the Ancient Dragons (explaining the predominance of their architecture), each culture had their own god or gods who competed with one another, yet all were united in adopting Ancient Dragon worship of The Crucible and in their practice of blood sacrifice (Formless Mother worship).The Serpent Bow even specifically states that it is imbued with "pagan" magic, and, of course, paganism is a polytheistic religion of the Greco-Romans... Thus, we can infer that the fall of said many-god worshiping Ancient Dragon society is a commentary on the real world historical cultural shift towards monotheism and away from blood sacrifice. Godwyn likely learned of their Crucible worship and secret red lightning techniques (which is a metaphor for him being indoctrinated into Greco-Roman religion) and thus was killed. The worship of many gods being perhaps one of the most reviled of sins in monotheism.

@@davidgomez5032 damn I like this

​@@davidgomez5032 This is a fantastic analysis. The ancient dragon cult of the capital could be seen to mimic monotheistic religions like christianity adopting pagan rituals and divorcing them of their context and cultural heritage in order to ease people into a new religion. > The worship of the ancient dragons does not conflict with belief in the Erdtree. After all, this seal, and lightning itself, are both imbued with gold. It seems like the Greater Will's meddling with forces of nature and trying to bully other outer gods out of the lands between is directly responsible for things becoming as dire as they are when we are revived by grace.

I mean they talk about "the nobles who hunted the gods" It seems like the ultimate in subversion of their authority. Making someone into a literal object is like the ultimate expression of power over them, I feel they wear the skins like pelts, like a trophy of sorts. It feel contemptuous, like "look at me, so much more powerful than the gods I have rendered them down to a handsome tracksuit."

Yeah I don't think the Godskins are meant to be interpreted as respectful of the Gods. I mean they hunt them and wear their skin, I don't see that as very respectful lol

> So many people quote the Godslayer Greatsword as being the source from which Godskin's channel the Black Flame, but I read it as Godskin's Black Flame can also be channeled from the sword, as in it's (presumably) a rare case where an object can channel the Black Flame by itself. Sure. I also think that's a strong possibility, but since its description is ambiguous, I think it's important to entertain the possibilities.

@@LastProtagonist That's true, I can definitely agree it's written vaguely and why people see it differently. It simply never really made much sense to me... Why would that sword be required (and only that sword) for a Godskin to channel Black Flame, no matter the distance/divides between the two? But let's be honest, that wouldn't be the weirdest thing in the lore... Radahn literally is blocking the orbit of galaxies worth of stars. Why couldn't a sword be an arcane conduit to the Rune of Death?

My man you made me look up who tf Rick, Soldier of God was. what good memelore I've missed.

I dont buy it. Its more plausible that she is the gloam eye queen.

That reminds me. For the unused quick descriptions, the Traveler set in Elphael says "Arm wraps worn by Malenia," and the Japanese version says "メリナが身に着けていた腕帯" [Arm wraps worn by Melina]. Idk if there was a name swap, but I thought this was funny. Maybe there's something more to it after all

@@LastProtagonist That's so interesting! Thanks for sharing that info.

There's cut content from a very early version of the Malenia fight that hints in very early versions of the story Melina was originally Malenia in disguise (hence the costume and the Margit/Morgott-style Melina/Malenia name shenanigans). It seems they fully backed off of this idea, though.

The biggest evidence refuting Queen Marika being the Gloam-Eyed Queen, in my opinion, is the fact that Maliketh defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen and wrested control of destined death from her. So Maliketh defeated Marika, then Marika plucked destined death, extracted it from the Elden Ring and told Maliketh to seal destined death inside of himself? Maybe, but ehhh.

@@trisbane4086 i agree with what you're saying, but this could very well be "false story" told to us. But I'd like to add something more: If the GEQ is not Marika, HOW the GEQ had the hold of Destined Death if all the runes seem to be hold only by Marika until the Shattering? I mean, the runes are all part of the Elden Ring, and Destined Death is one of them. Unless GEQ was the Mother of Marika and a god before her, it makes no sense GEQ having Destined Death as her power, as demigods all only got a hold of Runes after the Shattering.

​@@Piratadoidao How does the Gloam-Eyed Queen hold Destined Death if the Elden Ring is inside Marika? That's a good question. Coincidentally, the Gloam-Eyed Queen would not be the first one to wield Destined Death outside of the Elden Ring. There is an example of someone doing this that we're acquainted with, and it's Maliketh. Follow my timeline of events. 1) The GEQ has Destined Death. 2) Maliketh defeats GEQ and wins Destined Death for Marika. 3) Marika creates her Golden Order when she plucks Destined Death, removes it from the Elden Ring, reshaping it, so that no longer can anyone truly die. 4) Marika entrusts Destined Death to Maliketh to lock it away: "Marika's sole need of her shadow was a vessel to lock away Destined Death. Even then, she betrayed him." 5) Much later, Ranni devises a plot (possibly with Marika herself?) to steal a fragment of Destined Death from Maliketh 6) Maliketh seals Destined Death within himself so that this never happens again. 7) The Night of Black Knives; Godwyn dies. 8) Marika shatters the Elden Ring. Therefore, the only way for Ranni to steal a fragment of Destined Death from Maliketh is if Maliketh possessed Destined Death outside of the Elden RIng. We don't have much information about the Gloam-Eyed Queen, but I posit that she predated Marika, who was her rival. The world isn't big enough for two queens of their eminence, so Marika likely usurped the GEQ. It's possible the GEQ was even the vessel for the Elden Ring before Marika. Although that's conjecture. What isn't conjecture is that Marika - or more accurately Radagon - snuffs out her opposition, like she did with the Fell God and his flame of ruin which has the capability to burn down the Erdtree.

@@trisbane4086 But I mean, the problem is how GEQ had Destined Death on 1)? The only reasoning that makes sense FOR ME, is that the Elden Ring was once held by the God who was once the Five Fingers (the god who Placidussax was the Elden Lord) with all the Runes. Then something similar to the Shattering occurred and then GEQ and Marika were chosen as Empyreans. Then Marika had her Rune (which seems opposite to Death, so I speculate it's Rune of Life) and GEQ had her Rune as well (Rune of Death). They were "demigods" - that would explain why there's mention of other demigods without souls and how Vyke could be Elden Lord even though he has no hold of the Runes we know - there were other demigods who were killed in times before Marika defeating GEQ and becoming the new god. They fought against each other for their Runes and Marika won with the help of Maliketh. GEQ probably didn't have a shadowbound beast as we see the Raging Wolf knight being said he wanted to become a shadowbound beast of an Empyrean and he holds a sword similar to the GEQ sword. So Marika defeated GEQ before she would become a god and they were fighting for their Runes. So Marika is not GEQ in this case, but her sister or something.

@@trisbane4086 I always asked myself how do Iji and Ranni know about the true nature of Blaidd? They must’ve seen it happen and the only other recorded Empyrean with a shadow in history is Marika. Enia mentions “Marika’s trespass” meaning this was the damning move that would’ve activated Maliketh as a sleeper agent for the GW, then it would make sense. Another question I always asked myself is just how Maliketh is able to possess or lock away the Rune of Death? He’s only a shadow bound, not a demigod. The best answer I could come up with is that he sealed Marika inside him, who actually was a vessel. His black blade looks like it’s made from Marika’s torn half of her body, leading up to her eye that I speculate is the origin of the stone covered Beast Eye/Gloam Eye he gives us(Melina’s Gloam eye is revealed to be at the same side of her face). This would also explain the diminishing power of the Godskins since they would’ve received their power from her, the Queen of Death, Godwyn being the “Prince” of death. Her corpse is presumably dead since it’s found impaled with a spear bearing traits similar to the power of Maliketh’s Black Blade and her other half sealed into Maliketh, leaving “The Beast Eye” that writhes being the only piece of her that’s still “alive” and possibly a source of the Godskins power, the other being the Godslayer’s Greatsword since it’s clearly stated and the fragment Ranni stole which could also explain the piece missing from the Black Blade(It has the same brilliance of the black flame and the best explanation for the red hue I could come up with is the red glow from Blaidd’s eyes when he activates his kill switch at the end of Ranni’s questline because she murdered her Two Fingers and she’s in our pocket as a miniature doll when we confront him).

Cool but not an original theory im sure mad luigi or endymion mentioned it at the start

The red hair ?? That's said to be a trait associated with radagon specifically . I mean outside of the giants only radagons offspring have that red hair . I could be wrong but that would make your theory make alot of sense .

Very interesting

I thought about the ghostflame angle before, but one thing which leads me to believe it's distinct from black flame is that the Ghostflame Torch inflicts the ice/frozen status effect, and the Godslayer's Blade & Godskin incantations do not

@@LastProtagonist Very true. I have trouble divorcing the two given the interwoven nature of the godskins with the carian royal family and the nox with the carians and maybe ranni ultimately serving their "lord of the night"...though maybe that's what your title becomes when you do ranni's ending, instead? Also just remembered the greatsword says that the black flame originates from it so back to that sword as maybe a transmuted former god? Crucibles are fiery things so maybe whatever god-human served the crucible god? Dunno, there's plenty gods to choose from. The fire monks even picked two different ones given the switch from fell fire god to whoever wielded the black flame (also: does that mean the black flame marched on the mountaintop of giants?)

I'm beginning to wonder if it's simply taking inspiration from the Christian Trinity. So Melina is essentially the Holy Ghost. Not saying I believe this to be 100% true necessarily, but I saw your comment and I thought it.

The golden order was established after the rune of death was shattered. So yes she predates the golden order

Rennala is Hera, which we know due to her association with the Cuckoo. This makes Radagon Zeus, Radhan Ares, Ranni Eris and Rykard obviously Hephaestus given the association with Volcanoes. We know Miquella is Dionysus due to his association with the grapevines, hairstyles and large penises depicted on the walls in Elphael. Thus, it is likely that Marika is Demeter, explaining why grain is so prominent near the capital. Demeter was also called "Deo" which means two, but also means fingers, thus explaining why her religion worships the Two Fingers. All seem to take inspiration from several sources, but I can't pinpoint who Mohg, Morgott and Malenia would be in the Greek pantheon.

Crazy how I haven’t seen anyone mention this possibility about all of Rennala’s children not being able to move of their own accord. Shame we don’t see Rylard’s original body either.

Just checked the cinematic and can see Radhan move his foot as he leans to gravity magic his sword into his hands. ;(

@@LordKnightBane yeah, thats the odd thing. i think its specifically just marika and radagons children who cant move their legs. so it makes me think ranni isnt actually rennalas daughter

Because, like, Placidusax was the "Godfrey" of whatever god was running things at the time... Or maybe the "Radagon", with the missing heads being his "Marika".

Since the Elden Beast is the Elden Ring and was sent by the Greater Will, I'd say no, the Elden Ring is tied very closely to the Greater Will. It makes sense thematically too, since the Greater Will's thing is precisely imposing itself over the individual wills of everyone and everything, so tying the laws of life and reality with a physical manifestation of these laws is very much a "Greater Will" sort of thing. Most likely Placidusax was simply a previous Elden Lord, those are not Empyreans, they're the consorts of Empyreans.

@@AlriikRidesAgain that's a good theory. Cause he dead ass awaits the player character in a space that exist outside of time , even outside of farum azula , which appears to be stuck in time itself. But the encounter with the player is him testing if you have to power to truly become a lord maybe?

That's a good question tho, cause it's insinuated with rannis ending that the greater will had no control over the lands between but we don't know if ranni herself is I Control or if that moon itself might be the outter God.

There's a fundamental misunderstanding here. Empyreans aren't selected to be Elden Lords, they're selected to be Gods. Marika, the host of the Elden Beast/Greater Will, is a god; not the Elden Lord. Placidusax was an Elden Lord, and his remembrance states he was waiting the return of his god (the role Marika fills to her Elden Lords). Godfrey and Radagon are Elden Lords to their Empyrean-God Marika, just as Placid is the Elden Lord to his unnamed Empyrean-God. Miquella, Melenia, and Ranni are all empyrean candidates to replace Marika as God, not Elden Lord. In Ranni's ending she becomes the new god, with us as her Elden Lord.

While I think the violet connection is very interesting, it should also be noted that Grave Violets...are violet, and are related to death and ghostflame. If there were a more tangible connection as to why Eleonora was called the "Violet" bloody finger, I'd be more comfortable making these kind of connections, but I will admit, though I do remember reading the beast eye and it saying it had a violet pupil, I did forget about that in the context of making this video. Maybe it should've been included. Thanks for the comment

@@LastProtagonist That’s a fair point. I just think it’s made more compelling by the fact the Beast Eye bears a claw mark that looks roughly similar to the seal on Melina’s violet eye. Of course I can’t say it’s necessarily the same kind of mark as the one Melina has, but it looks similar enough that I believe the connection is there. On a bit of a side note about the violet color, the Beast Eye’s description says that it’s a “murky violet” color. When Melina’s post-Chaos ending model is closely examined (which Zullie the Witch does in her “Elden Ring’s most bizarre and beautiful faces” video), the violet eye is shown to have a cloudy spiral pattern to it. While I know it may be a stretch, perhaps that’s what the Beast Eye’s item description means when it describes the Eye’s color as “murky”? It may be more implausible by the fact that the cloudy spiral look isn’t present in the image of the Beast Eye, as far as I can see. However, the cloudiness of Melina’s eye does make it quite distinct, regardless of it’s color. I believe that’s what the Beast Eye could mean when it describes the color as a “murky violet”, but I’ll admit that it’s a bit of a stretch to assume so just based off of the look of a character model.

@@LastProtagonist By the way, I should’ve said so before, but this was a great video! Your lore content is great stuff.

@@LastProtagonist Been thinking about this topic some more, and while I did have other things I wanted to bring up and theorize about, I forgot that Melina has an interaction with the player character after inheriting the Frenzied Flame. She says that if we intend to become the Lord of Chaos, “…I will kill you, as sure as night follows day.” Dusk/gloam/twilight is the beginning of night… She never explicitly SAYS “Gloam” or “Dusk”, but that’s gotta be more than a coincidence that she promises to kill us like the night (which dusk is the beginning of) kills the daytime.

Exact same story in Greek myth. Interestingly, when Romans fought the Celtics, they genuinely feared Celtic magic and druids. This is because they knew all Indo-European religions had common origins and much overlap, so believed that the Celtic gods were one and the same with their own. They believed that the highest of the Celtic gods was simply a Gaelic interpretation of their god Mercury.