Elder Gods And Their Kind 

Oh my god, I had no idea you had a youtube channel Sandy! This is the best day ever.

We make a drink motto "how bout an old one", with Cthulhu icon on can

Third!

The way I've thought about it is that the Outer Gods are primordial and chaotic powers of existence that make up the universe while the Elder Gods are beings that gave structure to the universe. It's similar to the myths of Marduk killing Tiamat or Odin and his brothers killing Ymir, there are primordial chaos gods and then they are killed by orderly "hero" gods and have their corpse turned into the world. The Elder Gods limit and imprison Great old ones so that they do not bring back the chaos of the outer gods.

I always saw the Elder God’s in Lovecraft and CO’s works as being more like non-threatening Great Old One’s. Like their still cosmic horrors from beyond human understand, but their not as antagonistic towards humanity, like say Cthulhu or Nyarlethotep.

I'm about to have my current character in a Masks campaign attempt to contact Nodens. Wish me luck. xD

Lol I love how Cthluhu Mythos seem to have different camps, there's Derlethian and Petersonian intepretations.

I think if Lovecraft had learned about how August Derleth had attempted to create a "war in Heaven"-like scenario with the Elder Gods being the masters of the Outer Gods/Great Old Ones, he would have been very angry. If anything, the Elder Gods would be the rebels. They attempted to create little pockets of "sanity" in the blind, purposeless and chaotic cosmos that Azathoth dreamed up, and our world is floating in one of these pockets.

Sandy, I am using Nyarlathotep in my dnd campaign and my players are absolutely horrified by it and it's influence. I owe it to you. You are awesome man, thanks for all your hard work over the years whether in dnd, doom/quake, or elder mythos.

I personally think Nyarlathotep is the one running the show since Azathoth is mindless and yet he's his "messenger.". I think he just claims is a messenger, but is just doing whatever he wants and says "Azathoth made me do it."

My interpretation of the Elder Gods is that they're not necessarily opposed to the Outer Gods, but they have different methods. Like they all share the common goal of trying to keep Azathoth asleep so they don't die, but they go about it in different ways.

Just curious, I've heard you state many times that Cthulhu is a Star Spawn (or of some similar connection). I'm lost where this information is from. The really only time i've read anything about the Star Spawn was in ATMOM, and that wasn't in they story. Where is this information coming from? Is this something someone else (like Derleth) wrote? Was this something you created for a game? I'm at a lost, because everything I've read has Cthulhu being a completely separate unique entity. I've read theories that the Star Spawn were either created by Cthulhu to do his bidding, or are alien creatures that began to worship Cthulhu when they encountered him during his travels in space. Some have suggested they maybe are shape shifters, and they took on the likeness of their ruler. But Cthulhu being a Star Spawn isn't one of them.

This video essay seems to contain a lot of Petersen canon. Many of the facts you cite seem dubious to me. At least I would like to know your sources. 1. Who says that Hastur is a Great Old One? August Derleth does, but you reject other claims of his. 2. Who says that the King in Yellow is an avatar of Hastur? Certainly not Chambers nor Lovecraft. I don't think Derleth says it either. I don't know any source for this idea that predates the CoC RPG. Is this Petersen canon? 3. Who says that the star-spawn are not Great Old Ones? For that matter, where does the name "star-spawn" (for Cthulhu's race) come from? 4. Where does the term "Outer Gods" come from? Does it predate the RPG? 5. What stories by Lovecraft mention Bast or Bastet? 6. Why do you think "The Dunwich Horror" says Yog-Sothoth is a Great Old One? It says that Yog-Sothoth knows the Old Ones, not that he is one of them.

Glad to see Joshi referenced. I cited some of his literary criticism for my senior thesis in college.

from what ive read the vanir were worshiped in the countryside of noway even up to the Christianisation of the norse lands in the later 1000ad. nodens struck me as Manannán mac Lir a isle of man god.

It's supposed to be vague in the end. No reason to apologize. And take care of your throat Sandy. ; )

I think the reason you don't see multiple pantheons in a single culture is because even though there can be multiple gods vying for the same position or replacing each other, it a) happens over hundreds or thousands of years of retellings, and b) usually still counts as a single pantheon. New stories might appear but the pantheon as a whole doesn't change unless one culture conquers or assimilates another. But then we usually get no reference since nobody bothers to keep the old stories alive. For example, Romans had their own pantheon before they copied the Greek one, but we know almost nothing about it. Similarly, after Christianity took root, we lost most references and knowledge of existing mythology in many areas they conquered. Another reason might be that even though there are multiple different distinct groups in mythology, they either don't count as gods, so don't get included, or get included as a whole, no matter their classification. Be them Tuatha De Danann and Fomorians, or different Sithe courts, they aren't they aren't counted as different pantheons. I think the closest we have to different pantheons is Norse mythology, with Aesir, Vanir, etc. Even there we don't have groups mostly keeping separate. They are warring, marrying and otherwise interacting with each other.

I feel like I'm in a fever dream of lore; so if Cthulhu "can't open the door himself" is Yog Sothoth literally the gate to initiate an apocalypse or is that deathstar Ghroth supposed to wake him up?

I also use the idea that Great Old One is more of a level of power than an origin, and that various GOOs have vast and varied origins, each having arisen from a different race of beings. I even like the idea that the most ancient and powerful of each race of creatures ascends to become a GOO with enough time, in the way that Cthulhu himself is merely the most ancient and powerful of his race, the Star Spawn. In fact, Great Cthulhu is actually the High Priest of the Star Spawn race, being a priest of, I believe, Yog-Sothoth. I used this idea in a Delta Green campaign, with one of the DG Agents being slowly manipulated by Nyarlathotep into becoming a powerful sorcerer, with Gnarly's end goal being to have him ascend into a full Great Old One after several hundred millennia, a Great Old One that would be under Gnarly's thumb. My idea is basically the same as the Elders of the Universe from Marvel Comics, with the idea being that each Elder is the sole survivor of an extinct race of creatures that has risen up to become a godlike cosmic being, with part of the reason why they were able to ascend to such status being tied to a specific activity that the Elder obsessively pursues and has achieved mastery over. A couple of these Elders of the Universe have actually appeared in the MCU movies; the Collector and the Grandmaster. The Collector's area of interest is, well, collecting things, and the Grandmaster's area of interest is games. Some of the other Elders from the comic books are the Gardener, the Runner, the Champion, etc. Six of the Elders of the Universe were actually holders of the Infinity Gems, each holding a Gem that tied in to their specific obsession... although most weren't actually aware of the full nature of their Gems and only called upon the Gem's powers at a subconscious level (for example the Gardner possessed the Time Gem, which allowed him to suspend each pf his plants in time at its fullest bloom, and the Runner was in possession of the Space Gem, allowing him to literally run through space so fast that he would seemingly arrive at a new location before he had left his initial location) before Thanos tracked down each Gem wielder and wrested the Infinity Gem from them, as detailed in the Thanos Quest mini-series from the late '80s that lead into the original Infinity Gauntlet mini-series.

I always thought the elder sign had something to do with the elder things, because of its five-pointed nature.

I'm on week 11 of my CoC campaign, you're giving me lots of food for thought

@Sandy of Cthulhu Great content!!!! I think a lapel mic would do you wonders.

I agree with this, adding that human knowledge evolved from prehistory through 1000s of years and the rise and fall of civilizations. Much like we understand human history through interpretations of fragmentary records and archeological remains.... the same is true of our own occult literature and the fictional tomes of the mythos.. Words change, meanings change, poetic styles changes. I like the idea that Outer Gods are manifestations of the malevolent Lovecraftian cosmos, while Great Old Ones are different. Perhaps Cthulhu understands little more of the nature of the universe than we do of the nature of Cthulhu.

Regarding the matter of the Gugs offending the Great Ones I came with the idea, during a game, that originally they were a sentient and technically capable race which in their hubris did murder the Great One Kvasir to obtain forbidden knowledge related to language. Unable to come with a safe way to extract the knowledge found on Kvasir's tissue, mainly his ichor, their tampering with the corpse did end bringing the attention of the Great Ones who did unleash their ire as narrated in the story. My intention was to insinuate that the dwarves of Nordic myths were inspired by the ancient sentient Gugs and gave me the excuse of build an adventure involving the mead made from Kvasir's blood which was heavily influenced by John Carpenter's "The Prince of Darkness".

Thats all well and good Sandy, but which one of these things is best at giving kisses!?

I believe that there is a Medusa short story from Lovecraft: Medusa’s Coil. However she doesn’t work exactly like the Greek myth

another great video sandy hope your okay that cough sounds bad.

Great video! Looking forward to seeing videos about the out gods, who they are, and how they are featured in fiction and gaming

Maybe each great old one is the most powerful possible member of any sapient species

this helps immensely! mmahalo sandy.......

Cyaegha is Harley Quinn/Gracie Bon

We waited and waited for the old ones. Years went by and then we arrived.

@sandyofcuthlu i have a vs match for you, I would like your input...please. Leviathan and the cenobites from hellraiser vs Nurgle and his minions from Warhammer40k? A starting point, Leviathan has a sizable group of cinobites from the comics from the modern-to-future hell, when hell has become ordered, making Leviathan and the cenobites natural enemies of the choas god Nurgle and his creations. Nurgle has the full force of the Death Guard, including Mortarian and Typhon, as well demon engines, pox walkers, and plauge bearers of Nurgle. The fight begins in the labyrinth.

I always liked the short story "The Other Gods", where a pantheon of humanoid gods convening on an otherwise mundane mountain-top like Olympus are revealed to have a religion of their own, and their superiors are definitely not humanoid and not for human eyes. The story simultaneously tackles the absurdity of Greek myth if it's taken at face value, and also turns it on its head with a dash of cosmic horror.

Curious about the gods from Robert E Howard Being well they have any connections with the Great ones and elder gods.

Amazing video

For beings with such few references, there seems to be a lot of material about them

05:00. REH did a Lovecraftian horror story with Odin.

Just picked up Call of Cthulhu and I'm going to be getting some miniatures to play with and when I can afford it, a bunch of yours! Was curious if you had any suggestions on how/when to incorporate them?

u must be this tall to attack the city lol

Great video! Love how down to earth you and your videos feel!

The Solo Star Wars movie has one of the Lovecraft outer gods in it. Best part of that movie.

first.