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Electric Shock Drowning: A Silent Killer

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A video about Electric Shock Drowning, particularly in fresh water marinas or docks.
I talk about GCFI (ground fault circuit interrupter) circuit breaker and using it on your work bench, job sites with temporary power and generators.
Links:
www.electricsh...
Electric Shock Drowning Incidents - Marinas
www.electricsh...
www.boatus.com...
www.webmd.com/...
www.lakesidenew...
www.today.com/...
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Опубликовано:

23 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 46

@FryChicken 4 месяца назад

This has never occurred to me, and the fact that fresh water poses a greater hazard was unintuitive until you brought it up. A+ video

@URanInTheUglyForest 5 лет назад

When I was in my teens, we lived in a 1950's house. My father had GFCI breakers installed in many areas of the house, including protecting some of the basement outlets. The work counter in an area of the basement had a laminated countertop with a metal trim strip on the front. I used that area for my electronics work. One day, I felt a little electrical nibble, then the ground fault breaker immediately tripped. It turned out that the metal trim strip was somehow grounded and the item I was working on had a leak. I also had a few occasions that the ground fault outlet in the garage has tripped when working in the yard. I was glad that I upgraded the outlets in my old house.

@BjornV78 3 года назад

16:09 A GFCI breaker won't work with a generator because the output of a generator is a floating power source, just like the output of a isolation transformer. To detect ground fault leakage (what a GFCI needs to trip), your power source must be made ground referenced. With a generator or isolation transformator, you don't have a neutral, but you have 2 hot wires with 120V in between (VS) and 230/240V in other parts of the world. To create a neutral / ground reference, you must connect 1 of the 2 hot wires to a ground rod (with a generator outdoor in the field) or to mains earth when using a isolation transformer. Then when you touch a metal part that carries a voltage coming from your generator or isolation transformer, you create a path through your body to the ground reference, and then there will be an unbalance between hot and neutral, and the GFCI will trip. Keep in mind, if you want to use a GFCI behind a isolation transformer, and you bind one of the 2 hot wires to ground, to create a ground reference, you are bypassing the isolation between primary and secundary and loose the benefits of a isolation transformer. Another solution for use with a generator or isolation transformer, that doesn't need to have a ground reference, is a socalled "Line Isolation Monitor" or short LIM. A LIM is not cheap, and measure the impedance between each of the output wires of the generator/isolation transformer, and the metal chassis of the device you connect it to. Some LIM will trip if a preset leakage is exceeded, some LIM will not trip but give an alarm (this is used in hospitals to prevent interuption of critical devices during surgery etc...).

@PapasDino 5 лет назад

Thanks Martin, great points that we need to keep in mind!

@mjlorton 5 лет назад

My pleasure Dino, thanks for your post.

@TRS-Tech 5 лет назад

Hi Martin We have had similar problems in the past over here in the UK. Happily the regulations have been tightened up and now involve annual inspections including earth loop impedance testing and a GFCI or RCD as they are referred to here are compulsory ! ...... Sadly I have spotted a fly in the ointment ..... This is something that would really only be an issue with steel hull boats or vessels and that is galvanic isolation. To stop electrolysis causing rust damage to the hull a pair of diode's connected in anti-parallel. The theory being that if the voltage goes higher than 0.9V the GFCI/RCD will trip. The problem is that unless the owner of the boat understands how to test them (unlikely) they can fail. Canal boats in the UK normally have a sacrificial anode on the underside of the hull. As you well know the scenario you have been discussing between a person, the bank and a hull or prop ect is a very complex resistor network that can change all the time. Any decent power system on refitted or new boats will have an automatic switchover of the neutral to the hull much like the US grounding system and nearly all new systems will have this or an isolation transformer and IMHO an isolation transformer is the safest option. I just thought I should point that out as it could be an issue in many scenario. Happily in the UK it is now illegal for any external appliance or supply not to have an RCD installed. This may well be something worth warning your viewers about. As always a great video and great advice. Let's just hope people listen !

@mjlorton 5 лет назад

Thanks very much for your informative post.

@tokemi723 5 лет назад

I've never realized this was a potential hazard of swimming in the marina which I have done on several occasions. Thanks for brining this to my attention in this very informative video!

@mjlorton 5 лет назад

My pleasure, thanks for your post.

@billrimmer5596 5 лет назад

In the old days they used to wire swimming in a very unsafe manner. Two hot 110 and a neutral thru the deck box which was right underneath the diving board. The pool light was about 2 feet under water. The deck box was brass. Their was no ground wire. The galvanized conduit was the ground. Within a few years, the threaded conduit would rust and the pipe would just b laying next to the deck box. Then the box would fill with water from rain and splashing. No ground. A kid swims up and touches the brass cover. Dead. In the 50's thousands of these 15x30 kidney pools were installed all over southern California with horribly deficient electrical systems. U should c the code now. For every rule or code change, dozens of lives lost. Live and learn. Or should I say, die and learn.

@w8lvradio 5 лет назад

It's being recognized (finally) around Lake Erie (Port Clinton) area. There a float thing that they can put in the water near docks, it lights up and beeps (I think) if a certain level is detected.

@h2o-fpv623 5 лет назад

Thank u for the info yes i have to fix the wiring next to my working bench cause i have wires hanging and my bench its metal so im taking a risk there . Thank u.

@otm646 5 лет назад

On the Great Lakes is a well known concern, it is still an issue especially with water levels so high.

@mjlorton 5 лет назад

Thanks for your post.

@NiHaoMike64 5 лет назад

Why don't they make the 120V for boats 2x 60V to ground just like on some construction sites?

@rj.parker 5 лет назад

I once was renting a small mobile home with a three wire ac drop. It was on tires and the porch was wood. One day I started running a shower and simply reached in to test the water for warmth before getting in. There was a healthy electric shock coming from the water! Turns out someone had switched the incoming hot and neutral. The neutral was bonded to the ground in the main panel while the trailer ground rod was non-existant. So I was in a metal trailer with a hot wired chassis. Needless to say the electric company came out the next day and the shower had to wait.

@electronic7979 5 лет назад

Useful video 👍

@prodrigmd 5 лет назад

Great Info. Thank you very much!!!

@__WJK__ 5 лет назад

Not an electrician but it seems to me (aside from ground fault interrupters) it seems an extra safety device is needed, one that could be placed in the water and would sound a unique/loud alarm when current is detected in the water! We have them for lighting at sports fields, why not water as well(!?)

@Gringo_In_Chile 5 лет назад

I have a isolation transformer on my electronics workbench. I use it to power devices that I am testing (DUT) while probing with my scope. It is my understanding that GFCI/RCD devices will not work with iso transformers. Is this correct? I would appreciate comments. Thanks! PS - It is worth mentioning that my isolation transformer is floating (disconnected ground), however ground can be connected if desired.

@mjlorton 5 лет назад

Hi Ken, from my understanding and testing, GFCI/RCD devices should work with iso transformers and a floating ground...but perhaps worth a video to investigate further. Thanks for your post.

@Gringo_In_Chile 5 лет назад

@@mjlorton That would be awesome and much appreciated!

@TradieTrev 5 лет назад

Interesting scenario, Aussie standards are pretty strict for pedestals & gen sets in regards to RCD/GFCI protection. Boaties are tight arses in my experience and unless safety is forced upon them no-one cares.

@kerrygleeson4409 4 года назад

Great information thanks for sharing 🇦🇺

@MauroSedrani 5 лет назад

Great video! Thanks!

@billyr9840 5 лет назад

Nice !

@sylvanenergy 5 лет назад

Great to see from you my friend, a very poignant presentation old boy.

@mjlorton 5 лет назад

My pleasure, thanks for your post.

@mikemead2315 5 лет назад

Great Information! I often wondered if amateur solar setups, especially in a camper/caravan, could lend themselves to an energized camper-skin to ground danger if there is a failure in the camper solar setup. Besides Ground Fault Interrupt connections, are there some best-practices wiring/grounding/isolating techniques for amateur solar setups?

@ytfp 5 лет назад

One thing to be mindful of with solar is bad panels that cause fires. Although the panels themselves can cause a fire, particular attention needs to be paid to the connectors both from bad manufacturing, fraying, or water leakage. Walmart has had 7 roof fires from Tesla manufactured panels primarily from lack of maintenance on the connectors. Although this might not help answer your question, you are far more likely to die or lose your structure/RV do to solar panel wiring than electric shock from what I have seen.

@mikemead2315 5 лет назад

ytfp, Those are really good points! Though no solar related rv injuries reported that I could find, rv solar is in its infancy and most total rv panel voltages are currently really low compared to commercial. I think as more rv solar injuries occur, and they will, more widespread rv best-practices will be developed. Good points indeed! Thanks!

@ytfp 5 лет назад

Not heard of any shock issues on rv other than at the inverter stage and coaches having fault wiring. Fires however very much so especially in RV. There have been quite a few fires and almost fires on RV. These are primarily from cheap Chinese mc4 connectors or damage to the wiring or connectors from vibration, bad manufacturing, or wear. I can't recall all the names but "fate unbound" right here on youtube was the latest near miss that I can recall, luckily they had fair warning by wondering why they were not pulling in the amps they usually do and investigated. They found a nasty surprise when they found the cause. (Melted fused mc4 connector).

@mikemead2315 5 лет назад

ytfp, Yeah! I have seen some melted connectors - one on another youtuber’s rv. Like you say, those are an accident waiting to happen. Lucky. MC4/H4 connectors get damaged by arcing when taken apart under power (maybe even while put together). I wonder if the arcing/melting ones are bad from the factory, or damaged un-repaired connectors from bad build practices. I had heard the internal electrical connection bits are pretty standard, but maybe more tolerance issues than I heard.

@Brian_Of_Melbourne 5 лет назад

So, in the case you spoke about where a generator is being used and is not grounded (around 17:50). You suggest that in some way the current can go via a body to somewhere and hence cause an imbalance (tripping the breaker and saving a life). How can this happen if the generator circuit is not earthed? There can't be 'leakage' if the generator circuit isn't earthed, because there is nowhere for the current to leak to. Surely an isolated, non-earthed, floating generator circuit is safer because there is no reason for current to flow from the circuit to earth, hence the risk of shock is virtually eliminiated. This is not the same as a live to neutral shock, which doesn't cause an imbalance in currents and does deliver a shock. And from a UK perspective this sounds a lot like a failure of regulation (by local, state, and/or federal authorities). No code of good practice and poor enforcement of what little there is is perhaps the 'cause' here.

@TRS-Tech 5 лет назад

Two very good points and as you pointed out in the UK it is a legal requirement. However if the generator is backfeeding a home in a power cut via a suicide cord (sadly to common) as the water pipes provide a path to ground and anyone touching a faulty installation could still get an unexpected hairstyle change ! There would also be a hazard in this scenario if a live to earth fault existed and the generator was touched (to re-fuel for example) you have a danger in that situation as any device on that supply could provide a path, granted the chances of it choosing the "human" path are low but sadly still present.

@SeanBZA 5 лет назад

Worst one I ever saw was a group of builders, who did not even have a plug on the cable end, just a pair of bare wire ends, and 2 bits of wood to hold them into the socket, with no protective conductor connected. Builders standard is the dodgy power lead, and I tell any contractor to fix before starting any work, simply because the site owner is the one responsible for any injury, not the contractor.

@jdgower1 5 лет назад

If you ground your metal table top, the GFCI will work in your last scenario.

@robertcalkjr.8325 5 лет назад

Thanks Martin! That is a very important safety issue. Being a little bit of a germaphobe myself, I wouldn't swim around those places anyway for fear of other stuff that may be leaking from the boats...Yuk!

@mjlorton 5 лет назад

Very valid point!

@executive 5 лет назад

if it's on webmd then it must be true.

@jgwalling 5 лет назад

Saltwater is the best conductor for electricity.

@ollieb9875 5 лет назад

Well, it's silver probably. We use copper because it's more abundant. As a liquid, at habitable temperatures, mercury, I'd wager. Salt water is better at conducting than fresh though, if that's what you meant. However we can add impurities to freshwater that aren't sodium based to get higher conductivity. Just saying. Be well:)