80% charging is being advertized as being good for extending an Electric Unicycle battery lifetime. Is it? Is it not? Why? How? What does one absolutely need to know? All answered in this video!
As an electronic engineer and professional in battery cells i can tell you every word is true. The 80% advocates simply took the rule of a single cell to a pack which needs to be balanced. Bad fault.
How does this apply to a Tesla with lets say NCA or NMC chemistry? They recommend 80% charging so i guess the battery controllers are a bit more sophisticated?
@henrikrasmussen9598 I assume we’re not talking about GotWay Tesla here… 😄 E-cars indeed have very sophisticated battery control mechanisms. I don’t know the details, but they most definitely are not using passive top balancing like most EUCs do!
Great Vid, I fell for the myth at first until I found some of your info in the forums showing the way. The initial reason I bought a fast charger was so I could do the 80% rule in the first place based on what I read at ewheels. So yes... I fell for it hook line and sinker.
This is a great video, and im surprised that there are not enough videos about it. As a electrician i don't agree with every single smal detail of the video, but all in all it is great. In short: Single cell battery system like smartphones 80% charge ok. Multi cell systems that have balancing at the end of the charging sequence. Always change to 100%, and keep plugged in for 30min to 2h (depends on the battery capacity, and cell arrangemen ) Multi cell systems that have a active smart BMS that connects to every single cell, and can do cell balancing for every cell. They can do cell balancing whenever it is needed even if the battery was charged to 50-80% But haven't seen this technology in a EUC. Only some electric cars. (Curious of it will be implemented in the Kingsong S20) P.S. Heat generation degrades battery cells during charging. Depending how you battery pack is housed, and cells arranged there can be more or less heat dissipation. That's why fast charging is not always recommended. If more current flows in to the battery pack at a higher voltage there will be more heat. Electric cars have cooling systems for the cells so that the cell temperature can be regulated. Even heating them during cold winter times.
Thanks! Yes, I’m absolutely sure that I have some details wrong in the video. Could you mention which ones you were thinking about, so I could mention the mistakes in the video description?
I've been following this advice on both my V10 & Nik+ for several years. Both have about 1500km+ and both charge to the exact full voltage, no problem. I actually rode my V10 yesterday mostly hanging around 30km/h and after 14-15km I had 63% battery left, pretty much the same as it was new. This advice works!
Thank you for putting together this concise and educational video on this topic, it's something I've had regular disagreements with people over because they were only familiar with single cell systems and not full pack systems with top end balancing like an EUC.
great explanation, plz tell us more about this thema. Many euc users knows very little or even nothing about battery and charging, and later they complain for issues. This videos are very, very needed for euc society.
This is the most logical, easy to understand explanation about battery charging on an EUC. I have been following your advice and the batteries of my Tesla v3 still charge to 83.2 volts (out of 84 volts) after 1,700 km. Thank you.
Well said. I believe much of this applies to BMS regulated deep cycle Lithium and LIFEPO4 batteries as well. Thank you for your time and effort, I will use it and try to remember to leave you a comment on my findings in 6 months. I have a batch 2 inmotion V12.
FILL IT UP! I pay for headroom, range and power. No reason to short change an investment by under charging. Any time mine get under 80% after a ride, I let it cool and fully charge/balance. No range anxiety issues here. I DO charge my spare wheels to 80% if I plan on storing for a few weeks. However, I dont forget to fully charge them and ride them from time to time as well. I'll gladly buy another battery pack if I enjoy a wheel for 30,000 miles and the rest of the cheap parts still miraculously work.. Great vid man, thanks for the time spent!
This is a great point, I wish I would’ve emphasized this more in the video. You either use the full capacity and balancing safety of the battery until it rolls off to 80% after 20-30 000 miles, or you use only the 80% of a worn battery since day one.
Great video. This music and sound effect combining with complete seriousness of the speech creates great vibe. I was really concerned about letting my euc charge after LED in charger turned green and only today I discovered 80 % myth, and I am glad I clicked on your video.
Im here with the msx 84v. Same exaple as yours. It has 18000km already done, makes 84.1v with full charge, and i do 70-80km on a full battery going 0-50 in a city (delivering) It was always charged full. Love the video!
What's strange is that on the Xiaomi m365 I had you could download a third-party application to see the voltage of each cell group. But I can't do that on scooters that cost 2x to 4x the Xiaomi.
Great video! A question: given a battery discharged to 50% after a ride, the next day I want to ride again, and the remaining charge will be enough for my ride (without extreme discharge, pedal raising etc.) - would you suggest to go for a ride and then charge from ~10% to 100% or charge and balance to full, then go for a ride and keep the wheel at ~50% until next ride? Assuming we have the time to charge and balance before any ride in this example.
I would absolutely charge to full (+ balance) before each ride. But not because of battery durability, but for rider safety, worryfree accelerating, and freedom to ride for longer than planned. Storing the battery at 100% for extended periods does slightly wear out the capacity, but so does discharging to very low values. I don’t know which would wear out the battery more, but either way the wear will only make a notable difference after like 500 cycles, which is way more than you’ll ever get to.
Hi, I think few things are wrong or missing: 1) When the cell in the battery pack reaches an undercharge, BMS disconnects the load. Protection of cells against undercharging and overcharging is the primary function of BMS. Assuming a functional BMS, no cell will definitely get below 2.5 V. The unbalanced pack will therefore only have a smaller capacity, which can be recovered by long balancing. 2) For additional safety IMHO best way to go is to know your battery. EUCs usually comes without bluetooth BMS so user cannot check individual cell voltages. So option is to upgrade battery pack(s) with additional cell voltage monitoring and cell voltage alarm when its not already applied (some new EUCs have that). Of course upgrading in this way is only for few people but it should be mentioned because it is at least theoretically best way to go if you want to prevent the risk of failing BMS. 3) I think the presumption of 600 full cycles on lion on EUC is wrong: cells on EUC are regularly stressed by regenerative breaking which generates rapid charging stronger than cells are designed for. And that is happening during the ride when the battery pack is probably warm and that even more supports electrolyte oxidation on cathode. You are mentioning 30000 miles before reaching 70% with 600 cycles (600 x 50 miles), I think more realistic expectation is 200-300 cycles, that means 200-300x 50 miles = 10000-15000 miles. Which is still a lot, but.. 4) 2 year lifespan of EUC does not apply for all people. For many people EUCs are very expensive and they surely will use it longer than 2 years and 10000 miles are easily reachable while using EUC for regular commuting or as a shared big hobby in the family. And you can always sell your EUC after 2 years for nice money if the battery is still fine. For these reasons in my opinion partial charging is the way to go if you want to use your battery as long as possible and you know what you are doing. I would definitely recommend it if EUC has cell voltage alarms. Thank you for the video!
Thanks for the comment, Petr! 1) Incorrect. The BMS does NOT disconnect the battery from undervoltage on any current EUC model. That would mean for an instant crash! My 16S is already on it’s third dead cell situation, and like always, the wheel seems to work just fine except for not charging past 67.2 - 4.2 = 63.0V (and having a low output power). As I explained in the video, there are many discussions about these cases at forum.electricunicycle.org, where the battery is not charging past X - 4.2V, caused by a dead cell group. The BMSs actually used to cut off for undervoltage many years ago when they used generic BMSs not tuned for EUC usage. The public outcry was loud enough to make the manufacturers change the behavior, and prioritize rider safety over battery health. Which was the right move in my books, they just should’ve added an alert mechanism instead of simply removing the feature. And since there is no alert mechanism for low voltage cell groups, partial charging doesn’t currently make any sense. 2) KS and IM use specialized communication methods between the battery pack and the board, so only packs made by the manufacturer themselves can be used. In my understanding later GW-family EUCs do as well, so using a generic or a 3rd party pack is very rarely a possibility. 3) Be it 200 or 600 cycles, it’s still a whole lot more than the few dozen cycles of the worst cases of died packs caused by 80% charging. Also, 50 miles per charge cycle is a bit low considering that one full EUC charge only accounts for about 80% of a full li-ion charge cycle. 50 miles per li-ion charge cycle would describe a smallish 1000Wh EUC. I tried to average things out and keep them simple enough for people to easily understand. 4) Going simply by our enthusiast forums, 10000 miles is very rare for anyone to have reached on any EUC, 1st or even 2nd hand. Have a nice one!
So… I’m gonna store my RS for approximately 3-4 months. I usually charge to full and let the BMS do it’s thing. It is at 65% right now, should I keep that storage charge on there or bring it a little lower. And yes I plan to check on it at least monthly. What do you recommend?
What I think you should do is to charge it to full and let it balance every day… And keep riding through the winter! 😜 Seriously though, I’d be just fine storing my wheel at 65% for 4 months. I don’t believe that lowering it to 40.00% would bring any noticeable (or perhaps even measurable) gain.
Thank you so much! I'm very grateful to say the least for this awesome info! Have been charging my Sherman Max to 80% maybe 90-95% of the times. 2500km / 1500 miles. It just stopped charging (LED turned green) at 100.4V. 2h later 100.6V. If too unbalanced, is it best to just let it balance over and over in charge cycles and will it after a number of cycles recover n rebalance fully? Any advice for minimizing the issue in case of poor balance? Thanks a lot!
The internal voltage measurement on EUCs is not very precise, so don't expect it to get up to exactly 100.8V. If you want to maximise the balancing, charge up to full + 3 hours, discharge to 90%, and charge again to full + 3 hrs. Repeat this a few times. Since you haven't been balancing much, I would keep charging to full + 2 to 3 hours almost every time from now on.
@@mrelwood_EUC Ok I'll definitely do that! Sub+liked, obviously! Thank you so much for the video and for the quick reply even on this 11 month old video!, And for all the other replies in this comment section! That's super awesome and very kind of you to share this very important info for both ppls safety and wallet, n happiness. I wish you the very best in this life and the hereafter! Thank you again so much! Salam (Peace) !
Thanks for the very interesting content. I have a question about 5A charger that came with Shrman-S which starts turning itself ON/OFF after reaching voltage of 101.2V (reported on wheel screen). I would like to balance the batteries but I am not sure it is balancing packs while chargers goes on/off. Any idea why is it behaving like that?
The Sherman balancing process has been a bit of a mystery since day one. I haven’t examined it personally, but you might find more information at the EUC forum. Either way, pretty much all you can do to ensure balancing is to let it charge until the charger turns off the charge. In my understanding that happens when the LEDs remain green.
The EUC World app shows each individual cells info does it not ? It does on my Ninebot ZTen. Each cell is shown as well as the variance and other stats.
Z10 was the only EUC that had the capability to provide the individual cell group voltages to the controller. No other EUC has had the required connections between the BMS and the controller. Here’s hoping that the S20 will finally change the tides!
Thank you for this useful information. Does the 1-3 hrs balancing rule apply to smaller eucs like my mten3 too? It has only 420 wh so balancing should be shorter? and leaving a wheel on a charge overnight is bad right?
Nicely deducted, in theory it should be faster, especially on the 67.2V version. But since we are all balancing blindly, we have no idea how much would be the optimal amount of balancing at any given charge session. For a 420Wh battery, 0.5 - 1 hours would probably be the equivalent of 1.5 - 3 hours on a 2KWh battery, so that’s what I’d probably aim for if I had a 420Wh wheel. Charging overnight is bad, but only very very little. If you forget it overnight once every two weeks, it makes no difference. Just like if you balance only every other charge, your battery lifetime should still well exceed the wheel’s lifetime. But charging overnight on (almost) EVERY charge is bad enough to matter. Just like skipping balancing (almost) on EVERY charge.
Great job. I own "smart" chargers but balancing i do with original stock chargers only. My personal experience for sherman is beter balance voltage 100.8V with stock gotway(MSP) charger compared to 5A orig sherman charger. Big warning KS16X on original charger not turn off self copmpletly and keep KS16X in "sleep" state what cause big phantom battery drain to prevent this after charging turn on and off ks16x manualy!
Once the charging has entered the CV stage, it doesn’t make much difference whether you use a 1.5A or a 10A charger for the balancing stage. The charging current is the same quite soon after reaching the CV stage anyway.
Dang, I assumed my charger would balance at 80%. I thought it slowed down before completion (@80%). Luckily I only charge to 80% when I know I won't be riding for a few days and then charge the remaining 20% right before I leave. My MSP has almost 4,000km and still seems to have the same capacity. This video has lots of useful information and I will be sure to keep this in mind. Thank you 🍻
To be clear, a charger doesn’t do any balancing, and it doesn’t know whether or not balancing is happening. It’s purely a BMS feature. Seems your battery is still good. Charging to 100% before a ride is a good habit. I would leave the charger connected for 1-3 hours after it turns green though.
For something like the Veteran Lynx, with the “smart” BMS it has (no active balancing I don’t think), would one be able to charge to 80-90% with a configurable charger? Hills abound where I am, but I’d like to keep good charging practices. I think this video saved my V12HT from an early death, I got a few error messages after exclusively charging to only 80% for a while, and they seemed to go away after following the practices outlined here. Great video/animations as well. Thank you!
Thank you! I’m glad to hear that the video helped with your V12. I don’t know the how the charging mechanism of the Lynx does it, but several modern wheels balance already well before 100% charge (at least V13, V14 and S22). If Lynx does too, charging only to 80% would be ok for long term as well.
Does this mean that the battery can actually charge to 80% much faster than expected in case you are still far from home and need some more charge to make it all the way back? so like half an hour of charge might be enough instead of 3 hours? I mean if the charger is charging at full speed at the beginning and then not very much at the end..
Maximum charging speed is what the charger amps and the amount of parallel battery cells dictate. That's what's expected. The charging only slows down at the end.
Is there a danger of overcharging / balancing too long? What would happen if I were to plug in my EUC, and leave it for a few days plugged in at full charge? I might have had a battery fail in this way but I'm uncertain what caused it
If the charger works as it should and the output voltage is correctly adjusted, there is no danger of overcharging. But storing the batteries at full charge does wear them out in the long run, so I wouldn't charge the wheel to full until I know I'm going to go for a ride soon. A few days doesn't do much harm by itself, but a few days a few times a week every week does add up and it does wear out the batteries too fast. The balancing current gets very small though, so there's no real use in having it plugged in for more than 3 hours after reaching 100%.
Superb information!! 👍 Thank you Mr elwood. Now it's time to make a decision for me whether is it battery balancing or overcharging prevention. I used to unplug my charger immediately when the green light came on because of the possible explosion of the lithium-ion batteries which I've seen in the news these days. I always worry about overcharging a bad battery cell.
The BMS takes care of preventing overcharging on all EUCs. There has been at least one reported case of a BMS that fails to do it’s job in this regard, but a few units out of hundreds of thousands wheels sold is not something to lose one’s sleep over. As said in the video, letting the pack get out of balance is dangerous as well.
As far as I would need/like to ride. I don’t think there’s a specific rule or even any benefit to only charge once you’re below 50% or always charge before you’re down to 20% or such. Even on the 18XL, 0% still has a sufficient margin to prevent the cells from being harmed. As long as the cells are sufficiently balanced of course. If you only ride like 10 miles a day, unless you are a speedster you should be fine with charging only every 3-4 days or so. But if you need the max power, recharge every day. Thank you for the compliment!
PLEASE at 14:20 "I left it for a few hours with the charger plugged in ? or I left it for a few hours with the battery rested ? (I'm french I tried to understand the video but I don't understand the term "balanced" for the battery)
Leave it on the charger. When charger turns green, don't do anything. Like you would let it charge further. "Balancing" means that every individual battery cell is brought up to the same voltage. They normally drift apart slightly when you use the wheel.
Hey Elwood, i have a msx 84v and always used a 5A charger, but im thinking that if i buy a charger that can charge at 10A, would that be a problem? Thanks! 🌞
I don’t think the charge port is up for that actually. Other than that, 1.67A per cell is highish, but the cells would be able to handle it. If the pack is good and cells are balanced, I don’t see a problem in charging at what would be about 0.5C. But other components need to be able to take it as well. Connectors, wiring, and any charging circuitry. You can’t get past the single connector, I’ve only seen a few GX16 connectors advertised for more than 5-7A.
Great content! I'm aware of the 80% charge rule for batteries that don't need balancing. The other part of the rule is to never drain it below 20%. What battery percentage would you say is the safe minimum amount for an EUC?
I'm not so sure about that. I have ridden my own wheels down to 0% whenever necessary, and I'm happy with the lifetime I've gotten from the batteries so far. Remember that EUC 0% is avg 3.0-3.3V per cell. Lowest non-damaging li-ion voltage is 2.5V, so even if you ride down to zero, the cells are still at 30-47% of the cell's usable voltage range. Is the 20% rule a linear voltage based rule down to the cell manufacturer announced low voltage limit, or something else?
hi ! great vid ! I´ve a ks 18xl and have the original charger 1,5 amp, can I charge at the same time with my 1,5 amp charger and a 2,5 amp charger? or is it dangerous.? I know that my wheel can charge at 5 amp but I don't know if can be different chargers. Thanks bro!
Thanks! I can't give a definitive answer to whether different amp chargers are ok to use at the same time. But while most people would probably say yes, I know that there are a few that are not convinced. After all, there could be specific situations where one charger ends up feeding the other, like at the start of a charge, so it could depend on the exact topology of the specific chargers in question. Years ago one of my 1.5A chargers did fry when I was using two chargers of different brand together, but then again I have fried a 1.5A charger by itself as well.
I have the KS-16x and the original charger is 1.5A. I bought a second from S18 which has 2.5A. 16x has two charging inputs and everything was fine. 4A and 330W were charged.
I have a lot of experience dealing with lithium polymer batteries from the RC hobby. balancing is extremely important!! I've had a couple fires before I knew what I was doing due to badly balanced packs!
Thanks so much for the info! I just got my first wheel, and I probably messed up a little, by not even charging it a bit, and started to ride it right away around 40%, but I only did like 1km. Second mistake was charging it in the morning, and unplugging it right away as it turned green 🙈. Am I still ok? Hopefully I didn't mess up too much. By your information it's probably best to charge it at night I am guessing? It will charge to full, and a bit more for balancing. Also at what % should I charge it back up to 100%?
Don't worry, you have done zero harm to your wheel! The issue arises only if you NEVER balance the battery. Even unplugging every time right after green should balance enough for you to be safe for a good while. If you only ride for a km or a few, there's no need to charge it up to full beforehand. After all, the full battery range is there for to be used. I sometimes ride down to zero (or as far as the wheel lets me). Just remember that the lower the charge level gets, the less power there wheel has to balance you at surprise bumps. Check the voltage level after you have charged it to full, and remember the number as a baseline. Keep checking it every now and then, and if the value ever starts to change, investigate right away and act on it.
@@mrelwood_EUC Cool, thank you so much. One more question, as a new wheel should I discharge it close to 0 few first times to condision the battery so it knows where 0 is?
@@Volfas You should not. EUC's don't have a similiar battery management system that a mobile phone does, so it can't be "conditioned". 0% is calculated purely based on voltage, so it is always in the same place anyway. Some even say that you would harm the battery by discharging to 0%, but since on EUCs 0% is still well into the usable voltage range (avg. 3.0-3.3V per cell), I don't believe it to be harmful, and I have many times ridden my wheels down to 0%. Unless your battery is extremely badly balanced of course, in which case it would definitely be harmful. Yet another reason to thoroughly balance the battery often!
Great stuff, but I have a couple of questions: (1) cold weather charging - I keep my wheel in a shed outside and the winter temps are often below 0 around here, I haven't noticed any problem yet (except a little loss of range - which seems to come back as the temperature rises) ... should I worry? (2) You say a full charge is best, and that when you're NOT riding, the batteries should be left at half charge or so.Therefore, I should NOT charge to full if I think I might not ride for what... a week... a month.... a year?
1) YES you should worry! Li-ions should not be charged at all at under 5•C. And only with a much smaller charging current at 5•C. Check your battery cell datasheets for details. E-cars have battery warm up mechanisms in place because of this. 2) Exact duration required for the cells to degrade when stored at full charge is not known. The best practice would be to charge to full (and balance for a few hours) only just before you go on a ride. But one needs to be practical and find a suitable balance for oneself. Personally I won’t worry if my wheel stays at full charge for a few days. But I would go at least for a short ride if it stays stored at full for about a week. Because of my experiences, I think balancing to be more important than to avoid storing at 100% at all times and at any cost. If the battery would normally degrade to 70% at 30000km, storing the wheel at 100% for a month a few times a year could make it reach 70% already at 20000km. I really don’t know exactly, but I suspect that they are still very large distances. But for 6 months in a row… That would probably bring it down to worrisome distances right away on one go.
Adding to the cold charging, I think the Z10 doesn’t let charging to start if the temp is below +4•C. It also doesn’t let the wheel to start up if it cools down that low. Other wheels don’t have such advanced mechanisms in place, but for the Z10 to have them should count for something. The wheel also doesn’t dry up very well after a ride if stored in the cold. So you could be having humidity condensation issues or bearings starting to rust. A local rider stored his V12 on the balcony, and the display fogged up and stopped working in a few months.
Would you happen to know why when I fully charge & charger light turns greens it shut some of the power out in one of my room in the house? How am I supposed to balance the wheel if it does that after the charger turns green
Oh boy. I’d have to have a ton of more information to say anything really, but so far I can say that it could be caused by for example a faulty charger, sneaky little brother, or UFOs…
Okay so my euc the Begode t4 has 2 charging port one side fully charges at 100.5v even when balancing for 3 hours it’s stays at 100.8v. The second part it charges to 100.8v as its supposed to but after the light turns green it shut the power of my tv and lights in my room and my room only.
First, the charge ports are hardwired together in parallel, so no matter which port you use it charges both packs at the same time. You say that it charges to 100.5V, but then you say that it stays at 100.8V. It probably doesn’t matter, but which is it? How many times has this issue happened? And I assume when you say it takes the power out, that it trips the household fuse? Are you using the original charger? How soon after the charger turns green does this happen? How much current is being used through the same household fuse? Does it happen if you charge in another room? You know, details!
I just found your channel, you look like Elon Musk :) The explanations are deep, smart and easy to follow, I have watched several videos of yours and I have never come across such interesting content that can be watched in one breath. You are a true gems of the euc world my friend, keep doing it! After almost a year of waiting recently i bought my first euc v11, just learned to drive. All the best and thanks for the tips and videos, especially for driving modes and suspension, helps a lot.
Oh, thank you so much Max! Can’t even begin to tell you how good it feels that my content is taken up so well. 😊😊😊 All the best to your new riding life!
This video probably saved my Li-ion battery packs. Thanks! 🙂😁 Just to add to the discussion: I leave my EUC charging for about 1~3h after the charger turns "green" (means "100% charged, if you want to believe it"); and, during those 1~3h, power consumption, although minimal, still exists (around what...6.8W...for 84V battery packs?) Idk you, but, to me, that's an indication of BMS working on balancing stage...(11:45) Another thing I don't know why I didn't think about before is...the less "charge" (voltage, actually), the *faster* it tends to deplete. Basic electronics: W(power)=I(current)xV(voltage). Less voltage, more current, for the same power. Current is I=C(charge)/t(time). Yeah, congratz...you learned [if you didn't know that already] that we don't measure battery charge - at least not directly. What we do is a vastly imprecise rounding, via voltage measuring.
Now I need to stop the bullsh*t of "oh, no time to 100% +3h charging? Then no charging at all"...Idk why I act like this. I find it comfortable, although superstitious...🙃🤷♂🤔😆😆
Most EUCs don't have balancing circuits. Passive or active. The BMS is just info, not balance. You have to pay a lot (more) to finally get a balancing BMS in an EUC.
Ok, here’s a question, if a 100.8v fully charged battery is not recommended to be left fully charged for more than a few days, at what voltage minimum do you need to go to so you can be safe that’s it’s not fully charged, but is still high enough for a good ride, so does 99v get it healthy for how much longer, over the 100.8 for two days? You get me? An example, if I fully charge but the next day I only want to ride for 5kms to work, let it sit for 7 hours and then 5km home, are the voltages lower enough at that point for another overnight rest (no extra charge) and do the same for the next day and still be safe for the battery?
Good questions. Unfortunately there aren’t clear answers to these. It’s not a flick of a switch, good or bad for the battery. How you handle and operate the battery just affects the speed of aging, but all batteries will still age no matter what. There are charts at Batteryuniversity.com that show the difference in aging speed when charged to various levels, but even they don’t tell us exactly how long a battery can stay at any specific voltage for it not to age too fast. It’s all malleable. But 95% is already much better than a full 100%, and 80% is at a no-worry zone, at least for me. Which is why I try not to stress about it too much. If your wheel stays at 100% for two weeks once due to bad weather or something, the aging that happens during that time is not something that you’ll ever notice. But if you keep the wheel at 100% for 6 days of every single week for two years, then you can be sure that the range will have dropped noticeably because of your habits.
@@mrelwood_EUC thanks for the response. I did for the first time, left it charging after the green for three hours last night. Usually my Sherman max goes to exactly 100.8 then green, but after the extra post green three hours, it was at 101.4v so it looks like there was some good balancing done, well I think…….? So it sat for 5 hours after that, went the long way to work, and home again, about 18km and the wheel is at 98v, tomorrow it will probably be at 96v after work and I might be going on a group ride after. I think I’ll do as you suggested and fully charge, but try and time it so it at least gets a ride within a few hours of being fully charged, to then recharge at around 87v (I don’t push the wheel hard at any point in the charge)
So if my msx 100v after 7500 miles was still charging to 100.8v no problem without balancing really frequently does that mean the battery pack is in good health?
An extreme example: If 23 cell groups were at 4.25V each, one group would be as low as 3.05V. Total = 100.8V. The high groups would eventually bleed down to 4.18-4.2V, but the low group would remain at 3.05V.
Just to clarify when you say “let balance for 1-3hr after every charge” this means to leave the wheel plugged in for 1-3hr after light turns green? Or do I unplug and just let it sit for 1-3hr before using it
I meant to leave it plugged in the charger after the charger turns green. Although, letting the batteries cool down a bit both before and after a charge is a good habit for longevity as well. But I wouldn’t worry about it too much, since it could be insignificant.
@@mrelwood_EUC Ok, so I have an Inmotion V10F and on the app it says 80 some percent. But on the unicycle it's showing a full battery. Is this roughly the same thing you mean, to let it go until the app says 100% to make sure it's balanced ? Because that's what I've been doing so far. The charger has an led but I've never noticed if it turned green or not yet. Thanks in advance.
No, the charger turns green only after the app has showed 100% for a good while. That’s the CV portion of the charging process. You haven’t seen the led turn green because you have stopped charging before it does so. The point is to keep the wheel on the charger even after the led turns green. The app will then have showed 100% for a long time already. The battery meter on your wheel is very coarse, it only has 5 steps. 5 bars equals 80-100% battery, 4 bars = 60-80% and so on. It isn’t useful for monitoring the battery voltage during charging.
What advice would you give to those of us who live in a mountain and the first route of the day is a descent??? You know that we cannot start the descent with the battery at 100%. Gracias!!
That is indeed a difficult situation. It depends on the wheel though. Some newer ones have a better balancing that activates at a lower voltage already. But if you don’t have one of them, maybe only balance once a week, and when you do, ride on your yard for a minute or two before starting the descent. And ride slowly at the first downhill. Some people slowly ride down for 100m or so, then accelerate swiftly back up before riding down slowly. That helps quite a bit already.
Glad I came across video. I just came from those videos to charge to 80% and almost convinced myself yet again to do that. But the only reason I like charging full 100% battery is so that I can attain full top speed. Only problem my battery only charges up to 58.5 after 1000 miles which was one of the reasons I was about to go to 80% charging so I won’t have to see it never reaching 58.8 bolts.😂 Now I will do 100% charging in favor of balancing the cells to maximize the battery on my electric scooter. Thx.😊
58.5V of 58.8V is a small enough difference that it could be normal wear on any of the components after 1000km. So I wouldn't worry yet, but trying to balance the pack is never a bad idea, and it might reach higher again as well.
“Fast charging” is when the battery cell is charged at above 1C, so above 3500mA for a 3500mAh cell. 1C charging an 18XL would mean charging at 21A. None of the wheels’ connectors and internal cabling can handle actual such “fast charging”. Charging an 18XL with 5A is 0.24C, which is still very safe slow charging. Battery manufacturers recommend 0.8C for prolonging battery lifetime. That would be 16.8A on the 18XL, still well above what the charging connectors can take. Therefore I see absolutely no issue in charging wheels with large batteries at the maximum current the charging connector and internal cabling can take, which is usually 10A.
Always thought my charger light wasnt working as I charge in accordance with the App which says 100% but I had noticed the Voltage was only at 83 and then it takes an age to get upto 84 V.so I turn it off, my charger always shows red Ime assuming then to balance the batteries I should be leaving it to get that last Volt of power?... 🤔
@@195Bucks , yes, you should leave it on and watch the light on the charger instead of the %. A part of the video showed a graph on the charging process, which explains the CV part of the charging where the voltage stays at 84V. The battery voltage changes very slowly during this period. The charger’s indicator LED is always dependent on the charger current, which is a better meter for the charging progress than voltage.
@@mrelwood_EUC so even when the charge goes above 84V on the App don't switch the charger off!.. Only switch off when the charger goes green! 🤔... Would I have ruined the battery pack then as I must have done at least 250 charges from around 70% upto 100% but only say 83.5Volts max. Ive done 1500 miles so far on my 18XL..😕.
Do all those things apply to the new 134v wheels? I just got V14. Also what if i leave it in charger more then 3 hours after full charge, is it harmful?
It depends on the model and it’s BMS features. The V14 has a smart BMS system that valances already at a lower voltage. So you don’t need to worry about balancing on that one, you can stop charging at 80% if you so wish. (I wouldn’t if I need the range.) I don’t know if the V14 stops charging at some point. Either way though, 3 hours isn’t harmful as long as you go for a ride in a few days. I wouldn’t leave it full like that for weeks. Once isn’t bad, but if the wheel spends a lot of time charged to completely full, the capacity will degrade several percentages a year just because of that, on top of the normal degradation.
If a rider knows in advance that they won't be riding for a few days after a session, should they wait until the day before or on the day of the next ride to charge, or charge right after the current session? This is assuming charge to 100% and leaving on green for a few hours. I had the impression that the stock charger on my V8F would go green only after balancing the battery, since EUC World works during charging and shows 100% long before the charger light goes green.
The charger doesn’t know about any balancing being done. Balancing is a feature strictly in the battery BMS. Watch again the part about the charging process from 10:13. The stages of charging any Li-ion battery are 1) Constant Current, and 2) Constant Voltage. As the title says, the voltage stays the same during the CV phase, which is what you see in the app as 100%. As said in the video, the battery is best stored at 40-60%. A couple of days is a very short time, so the battery won’t wear much even if stored at 100%. But if you want to get into the habit of storing the wheel at ~50%, you can do that, and then charge to full and balance closer to your next ride.
@@mrelwood_EUC - I'm new and only have the V8F with a bit over 100 miles on it. I mostly use it for short fun runs, only reducing charge to about 85%. I"ve been riding it most days, but will probably drop back to 2 or 3 days a week to due to other hobbies. Fully charged, EUC World shows 83.6 or 83.7 volts on a 84 volt (20 cell) battery pack. For radio control models, the recommended long term storage voltage is 3.85 volts per cell on a LiPo battery pack, but long term storage is not a factor for me.
If you only ride a few short runs a few times a week, there’s a lot of storage time in between. Now, I’m not perfectly sure how much different it is to store the batteries at 100% for 5 days of the week for a year, or storing the wheel at 100% for 7 months in a row. But since you only do short rides, I personally would only charge (to full + balancing) after every other or every third run. The V8F has a smallish battery, so the charge cycles add up twice as fast than on a 1500-1600Wh wheel, so some consideration may be warranted. Especially when it doesn’t cost you anything. The opposite actually, since you don’t need to charge as often.
@@mrelwood_EUC - thanks for the reply. Currently I'm riding 5 to 6 days a week but short rides (3 to 5 miles). As my muscle adapt, I will increase my ride distance, but may also ride less often per week. So if I let the battery run down to 50% between charges, I assume that would be better? I weigh 190 lbs, but I left the max speed at 25 kph (15.5 mph) and I'm averaging about 11 mph on my rides, ranging from 8 to 14 mph.
I am doubtful about you ever noticing the difference in charging only when you reach 80% or 50%. But with your usage habits, technically it might extend the lifetime of the batteries slightly (after 10’000+ miles) if you let it run down to 50% before charging.
So, now that we have vehicles like the lynx, as long as your battery cells are always as equal in voltage as possible, I assume now that you can charge to 80% all day long, as long as your always balanced? Correct?
@@skampster I don’t know if the Lynx BMS balancing is smarter than the passive top balancing of the older wheels. If it balances at lower voltages like V13, V14 and S22 do, then you can safely only charge to 80% every time if you so wish. Though it doesn’t remove the fact that you’d still be using only 80% of the capacity already now in order for the capacity to be better after 20 000 - 60 000 km… If you don’t plan to ride much further than that with your wheel, you’re only missing out by not charging to full.
What is called “fast charging” in the EUC community isn’t usually even actual fast charging for the actual li-ion cells. The chargers that come with the wheels are usually just very slow chargers. But whenever upgrading the charger from the provided one, you have to dig deeper on how fast you can safely go. It depends solely on the wheel model. Examples (look for the smallest allowed current): Sherman, 10 parallels of 18650GA, charge current 1.675A per cell, total 16.75A. Charge port limit: 5/8A depending on version. Electronics limit: 10A total. Safe up to 5A per port. S18, three parallels of LG M50T, charge current 1.455A, total 4.365A. Charge port limit (not sure but could’ve been 8-10A??). Electronic limit 5A total. Safe up to 4.365A. V8, two parallels of LG MH1, charge current 1.55A, total 3.1A. Charge port limit 5A, electronic limit unknown. Safe up to 3.1A. And so on. Whether you use one or two chargers doesn’t matter. Only the actual charge currents do.
The balancing process happens whenever any cell group is over 4.18-4.2V. Plugged in or not. But to get the higher cells above that limit, it’s best to leave the charger plugged in for an hour or two after green. The balancing current is slow enough that the charging current almost always exceeds it. So to get the full benefit from the balancing process, it is best to unplug the charger and leave the wheel be for several hours to a full day after that. I failed to mention this in the video.
@@mrelwood_EUCanother few hours after disconnecting a charger 👍, also is it safer to connect the euc first and after that to the electrical socket in the wall because of a possible short circuit? 
@@SamoukiTuki It depends on the wheel in question, since it’s best to have the same voltage on the connectors when connecting them. This means that especially older Gotways (and some Begodes?) have a live port, so it’s best to connect the charger to the wall socket first. But on most wheels, like Inmotions, it’s best to connect the charger to the wheel first, then wall socket. When detaching, detach the wall socket first and wait a couple of seconds for the capacitors to flush out, then disconnect the charger from the wheel.
10:05 not agree. I had a Gotway MSP HS with cursed batteries (LG M50T). First two battery leaks were discovered when it stopped charging above 98-99.6V. I previously always checked charging to 100.8V. But that time it stopped earlier and charger was constantly changing from green to red all the time, not in the usual way. After two repairs, by changing leaked cells, battery stopped charging third time (it was 13k km, 15k km, ~15k km mileage). After third time i bought completely new batteries, and everything is ok. As for other parts of video - thanks for good explaining!
I don’t follow. I said “If your battery stops charging at 96.6V, you can be pretty sure that you have a dead cell group.” Which part of that do you disagree with? Of course there can be other issues as well, and a failed pack can stop charging at practically any voltage. Btw, your issue wasn’t a “battery leak”, since Li-ions do not leak without severe physical damage to the cell. If they do, the gases are badly toxic. Your issue sounded like a badly balanced pack. The cells themselves were probably just fine.
the bms should normally balance the cells, even with the power off. the discharge current is however very low, and it is therefore very slow, often longer than 24 hours of balancing "normally" is a nice word 😁
It indeed should (somewhat) balance even with the power off. But since the high cells are only bleeded off when above about 4.18V, the cells with a voltage lower than that are not catching up. So it's only balancing partially when powered off.
You know about one single EUC with 30k km on it. In Russia we have numerous wheels with similar mileage numbers or higher. Here's Sherman with 50k+ and several 18XL with 30-45k (mine is 23046.2 km exactly at the moment)
@@mrelwood_EUC I don’t know for other people, as for me - I don’t mind. But your point is invalid and people should care about battery in that sense. Other your points - can’t argue about as you delete my comments and you deleted my post on Reddit. There is no possible way for me to stop your disinformation, so let it be )
@@jnarical What are you talking about?? I don’t use Reddit and I have never deleted a single comment on RU-vid. You must be mistaking me for someone else.
Every wheel needs to be charged at least until the charger turns green. Preferably an hour on top of that. Well, the V13 can balance the cells earlier, but all other wheels. The S22 balancing is still an unknown.
@@mrelwood_EUC My stock EUC charger (for KS-18XL) doesn't go green, yet EUC world shows that I exceed 84V. Should I worry about that or should I just continue to charge it for 3 hours more until the cells get balanced?
It does have passive top balancing, just like almost every other EUC. Just like with others, leave it in the charger after the charger turns green and it will balance the cells.
@@mrelwood_EUC I've been leaving it in green for 2-3h for almost every charge since I've received it. But how do i "top balance" those cells, sounds important!
@@mrelwood_EUC I guess i just got it confused, seems everyone has a different word for it, top cell balacing, pissive cell balacing, manual cell balacing. Do you know wrong way's channel? he says only ks 16x and 18xl have these features ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ApkeIgUSTMk.html&ab_channel=WrongWay%21
@@Reawer Yes, I know that WrongWay is trying to determine whether a wheel has any balancing function based on a certain formation of balancing resistors and transistors, since that’s the only thing he knows to look for. Unfortunately he is mistaken. There have been long discussions on the matter at forum.electricunicycle.org.
HI , I ALWAYS GIVE IT 8 EXTRA HOUR'S WHENEVER I CHARGE MY MONSTER, OR MSP THEY USUALLY DISCHARGE OVER THE DAY , THEN BACK ON CHARGER SO I USE THE BATTERY WHEN IS ABLE TO PROVIDE HI AMPERAGE :d AS IF YOU RIDE YOUR BATTERY UNDER 50% THE BATTERY ABILITY TO PROVIDE AMPERAGE IS LOWER AND YOU USE UP TO 150% OF THE BATTERY'S ABILITY TO PROVIDE POWER , WHEN ABOVE 90% STATE OF CHARGE YOU ARE NOT OVERUSING THE BATTERY
Inmotions most definitely do balance the cells. I’m aware that there is a rumor going on that they wouldn’t, since they don’t have the same kind of separate resistor arrangement visible on the BMS. But there are integrated circuits that can and most probably do handle the cell balancing. I’ve read of a few cases where the V10F didn’t charge to full, but a repeated charging + balancing at the top 10% did fix the issue. If there was no balancing, this couldn’t have happened. Besides, other wheels with the same exact cells have fallen out of balance badly enough to fail the whole pack at just a few thousand km if not balanced often enough. If IM didn’t balance, some of them would too. After all, the V8 series is the most sold wheel of all times, so we definitely do have a lot of samples. I measured my V11 packs at around 5000km. All cells were within 0.01V, which is simply impossible without balancing. And rare even WITH balancing.
@@mrelwood_EUC why do all my inmotions never charge to full 84v? I have V8F and V11, and had V10F in the past. It is always between 82 and 83 after overnight charge.
The wheels should be examined a bit closer for me to be able to answer better. But at least on the V11 the voltage reporting can be calibrated remotely by Inmotion. Perhaps the default calibration is simply a bit on the low side. I’m not sure if other manufacturers’ wheels can be voltage calibrated, but it’s well known that the voltage reporting tends to be less than precise on all wheels. Measuring the battery itself with a precise multimeter tends to show correct and expected results if the wheel’s own reporting is a bit off.
so I'm basically screwed living on a hill, since I can't charge to 100% without risking the wheel not braking going downhill (it beeps and tilts back). Thankfully I can take a route which starts uphill so sometimes I do charge to 100% but maybe it's not enough... Have almost 8000km on the wheel and no issues so far though. (It's a 2021 MSX v2 from AliExpress which is not in the official Begode lineup but is still amazing. With Ricoh battery cells they say.)
Yeah, living on top of a hill is the worst case scenario for EUCs for exactly this reason. But it doesn’t take more than a minute of a bit harder accelerations to achieve a good amount of voltage headroom for downhills. Riding down the hill slowly without hard brakings helps as well.
Okay So 40% to store 100% plus a few hours to balance the battery cells.. But what about if you ride it every day but you don't drain your battery to 40-60% during your ride and when you get back its only on like 84% what would you recommend then bc I'm gonna stick to ur methods I can tell you know what you're talking about!!!!.. Thanks for any advice in advance you gotta new subscriber from PA sporting the V12 HS lol 😎
Thanks Nate! If you only discharge to 84% and don't need the full range on the next ride, no need to charge at all. Discharging 10% each day down to 10% is no different from riding it down to 10% in one go, from the battery health point of view.
@@mrelwood_EUC Wow thanks that was very helpful okay so instead of topping off the battery with a little extra charge to bump it up to 100% everyday after my rides instead don't do that just ride it down to about 10%???? I don't know too much when it comes to the technical parts of the EUC but wouldn't that possibly drop my voltage significantly making my riding performance poor??? Sorry not trying to trip you up or contradict you Just trying to have a better understanding 🤔
Yes, of course you need to ride more careful the emptier the battery is. The 10% was just an example to demonstrate that you don't need to charge after every single ride. If you're a fast, heavy or otherwise aggressive rider, it's best to keep the battery above 40-60%, depending on the battery size. But if you only use 15% of the battery in a single day, you can charge only every other or even every third day.
@@mrelwood_EUC No the example made sense perfectly I'm just so literal if you told me the sky was Gold I'd say no way before realizing you weren't actually serious lol but okay so just so I'm clear "Let the battery drop down to 40-60% in between my rides.. Then charge it to 100% topping off the battery with en extra charge to even out the voltage every other to 3rd day"..???
Again I appreciate you so much man 🤝🏽 I'll definitely keep you updated with my progress following ur tips. I have like 3 miles on it yesterday was my first time taking it out for a spin.
first of all, sory for my english. a have inmotion v10f, i see battery is 20s4p so BMS control each row(4 cells) and cut off when voltage is 16,8v please explain to me what can BMS do if one battery is lower voltage? is it not risky to charge 16.8v and above 3 good cells and one damaged one? charging the damaged one with high voltage, can overheat and cause a fire. in addition, there may be a voltage drop on the damaged one, which will cause overcharging and damage to the 3 healthy ones in my opinion, if the cells start to charge unevenly, BMS will not be able to do much, it will constantly tire the remaining good cells in the row trying to charge the problematic cell. I dont know why EUC software no show balance effective, after all, BMC controls it and has the data??? and actually I know it, producers don't want to have any more complaints than now...
A few things to correct: 1) 20s4p means that there are 4 cells in PARALLEL, and 20 of these groups in SERIES. All components in a parallel configuration always have the same voltage, since they are physically connected via a conducting material, in this case a nickel strip. You can’t have different voltages in the same nickel strip. 2) The BMS cuts off charging if any of these parallel groups reach about 4.25V. If that happens, the cells that are above about 4.2V are bled down through the balancing resistors that engage above about 4.2V. The groups that are below 4.2V remain at the same voltage, only the ones above are lowered, therefore you need to charge your wheel to full and preferably keep the charger connected for an hour after it turns green. This is called a passive top balancing system. 3) The only situation where the cells would be charged at a different rate (excluding balancing) is if the cells in a parallel group would have an abnormally low or high total internal resistance. For example if one cell of the group is damaged. In that case the group will reach the 4.25V limit much earlier or later than others, and BMS will cut off charging before the total voltage reaches 100%. If this happens, your battery pack is damaged, or at least badly balanced from some other reason, for example from preventing balancing by disconnecting the charger too early every time. 4) The BMS and the controller don’t usually talk with each other in a way that could provide the data you mention. Only the V13, S22 and Z10 can provide this information, other wheels don’t have the hardware to do so.
@@mrelwood_EUC ok, you are right and my stupid mistake. parallel batteries don't need BMS. But I'm still not convinced to balance every time. I once made batteries for a drill from old cells from a laptop. I charged it many times before I bought and installed the BMS circuit. and I did not notice significant voltage deviations on individual cells. after 60% capacity, the charging curve slowly flattens out and cells with higher voltage charge slower, and cells with lower voltage have a chance to reduce the voltage difference
@@adasmazurkiewicz Scale matters here. I assume you had four series cells in the drill? EUCs have 20-32. And it is expected to stay balanced for hundreds of full charge cycles. But a lot of it comes from experience. Like I said, the pack that I balanced every tenth charge didn’t survive anywhere near long enough. And I’ve been following the amount of battery failures and their charging histories for years at the EUC forum. Balancing every charge or at least every other charge matters, and the probability of running into issues down the line does seem significantly lower.
Does double charging reduce battery life, especially if it's constantly charging like this? And in this case, when both chargers switch to the green, does the cell balancing time is reduced? Tnx in advance
Depends on the chargers’ current capabilities and the battery size and setup. Usually no. Cell balancing time depends solely on how unbalanced the cells are. At the time of balancing, the charge current has usually dropped so low that it doesn’t matter which charger or how many you use.
NASA get >10.000 cycles by balancing the cells at 3.92V. So at least in theory you could also balance at 4.05V per cell (above 4.1V is when it gets bad) but then you need to be able to charge at a lower voltage. I don't know how these BMS work, but in theory you can get a charger that supplies couple Volts less or so for a dumb pack.. there are certainly a couple SEA RU-vidrs who've modify their chargers like this for some reason. Right? But isn't the big caveat for EUC battery life the higher current that is demanded while the pack is almost depleted? On long rides, riders usually push the wheel until they get a warning. And when the pack is at a lower voltage the pack has to constantly deliver more current to the motor. So by starting from a lower charge, you'll demanding more than 1C(0.5C?) more often which is also not optimal to terrible for battery life. And you're also riding more below nominal voltage, you're also more often near depletion which is way worse. Maybe these current demands is what degrades the pack, and also degrades individual cells asymmetrically and unbalances the cells more??? So I don't know where the trade-off is for battery life *if you could balance at say 4.05V* because you get most of the range and power above nominal voltage (3.6-3.7V) so you really lose half of the good stuff with less charge, and as you pointed out the risk of overcharging an badly balanced pack with a BMS is negligible, while the draining to the cut-off point is what kills your pack (and maybe some teeth) So really you lose more than 20% charge from not getting a full charge, because now you now also have to be more careful about not riding with a depleted pack. What I'm doing at the moment, is just storing my wheel if it's above 30% (I believe that is what the spec says is best for LG M50T) and then using a calendar app to scheduling my next ride as an event that includes my % of remaining charge, then using IFTTT applets to turn on my smart plug for enough time to charge my wheel somewhere near 90% charge before I go out. And give it a good balance when I do hit 30%. So that's what I'm doing for now until I get an aftermarket charger to balance at a safer voltage, or not if someone tells me how wrong I am about this.
Balancing is not a feature in the charger. It’s a BMS feature. And all wheels except V13 (and probably S22) only balance at above about 4.19V per cell group. If the cell group doesn’t reach that, no balancing happens, no matter which charger you use. If you charge only to 90%, balancing happens only when the pack is so badly balanced that it’s not salvageable by BMS balancing. You should charge to 100% so that you give the wheel a few hours of charging time after the charger turns green, and a little time for the battery to settle itself unplugged before you start riding. Just like you said about NASA, the same method is in use in e-cars. They balance at a much lower voltage than 4.2V per cell. And that is how you get more cycles. But in the video I already laid the math out about charging cycles on EUCs. How much lifetime are you aiming for? I haven’t seen data that would suggest that people who ride hard or all the way to empty would have their EUC batteries die sooner than expected. We generally use so few cycles that it doesn’t matter if our behavior would make the battery last a shorter time. It’s still well beyond what we will ever use.
@@mrelwood_EUC Right, but I wondered if, because the BMS should(?) also measure the input voltage, it might have a feature that say if input is limited at S×4.05V, and the pack is already near or at S×4.05V, it would recognize this state and just continue and down-regulate current, i.e. balance? Doesn't it need to because of varying grid/charger quality? But I will definitely balance more aggressively/often after watching this video.
@@submijiru The BMS doesn’t have current limiting or regulating properties. Charger determines the charging voltage and hence current based on the pack’s voltage. The current drops at the end of the charge because the charger has reached the maximum voltage it’s set to. The smaller the voltage difference, the smaller the current that flows.
@@submijiru Balancing is only a very slow discharge of the individual cell groups that are over the ~4.2V threshold. Again, none of the above applies to V13 and S22, since they have a smarter BMS that can balance the cell groups at a lower voltage.
@@submijiru Oh, and chargers have regulators in them, so that it will give out the desired voltage no matter if the grid is 110V or 240V. But if the charger’s output voltage drifts up or down, it is a problem that the BMS can’t really compensate for. Too high and the BMS will just end up bleeding all cells through their balancing resistors. But the bleeding is much slower than the charging current, so the cells will still get overcharged until the BMS cuts off the charge completely. And if the charger is too low, again balancing doesn’t happen until it’s too late. The way the traditional EUC BMSs work isn’t at all smart. There are several issues with the design. But only two the latest models even have individual cell group monitoring. Hopefully it will create a trend and all future BMSs would be a few steps smarter.
@@mrelwood_EUC "Elon", what about the intensity of charging? Could you please suggest if increasing amperage shortens EUC battery pack lifespan. For example, I just got this 10A quick charger for my Begode Master (2400 mAh, 134V). Quite a level up from the stock 3A charger. Do you know, if this has great impact, or if it's more or less irrelevant and I can just use it as often as I want without significant difference? Thank you.
@@EUCMIXTAPE I don’t remember which cells the Master uses, but since they are 21700, they are most probably 5Ah cells. Recommended maximum is 0.5C, which is 2.5A per cell. Four cell groups in parallel sums up to exactly 10A. As long as the charging connector, wiring, and the BMS are ok with 10A, I don’t think using a 10A charger would be the most significant battery killer on your Master.
Not at all weird. Everything I said in this video ONLY applies to battery packs with a PASSIVE TOP BALANCING mechanism, which all EUCs have. Electric cars have a very different, personalized active balancing mechanism. So nothing in common with the EUC. Tesla could program their batteries to be actively balanced when charged only to 20% if they wanted. A normal lifetime of an e-car is probably in a ballpark of 300 000 km / 15 years. That’s roughly 600-800 full charge cycles. A normal lifetime of an EUC is roughly 8000km / 2 years / 100 full charge cycles. Extending the lifetime of the battery cells is pointless on an EUC when the effects would be noticeable only after 300-500 charge cycles (20 000 - 40 000 km). For cars though, extending the battery lifetime is crucial, and a necessity for most units.
I'm open and interested in a discussion on the matter, if you have anything to say other than to "read" about it. Because from where I'm standing it doesn't sound like you'd have any information on the matter yourself.
@@mrelwood_EUC yrah you are right ;) So balancers works kinda dumb imo. When they sense the first cell to be 4.20 (in case of lipo for example). They stop charge to all cells. Then it discharges only the full cell using the balance plug wires. When it gets like 4.19 it stars charging all cells again using the charge plug. This repeats until all cells are equal to the needed voltage. I hope this is kinda of better the “read about it u ***”. Sorry if I made you feel hated, I just would like to show you that there is more and may be the theory could be influenced by some thoughts and knowledge
That's not how the BMS's on EUCs function though. And there are no LiPos on EUCs either btw. I was only talking about EUC batteries in the video. Maybe I wasn't clear enough on that?
and maybe you're assuming you know something when you don't? My knowledge is also limited like yours. Perhaps this is an active bms vs passive bms issue? What else don't you or I know?
@@urastus9202 Well, what I don’t know is which one of us you’re replying to… 😉 But you’re right in that there are many ways to make a BMS, and active/passive balancing is just one of the many possible differences. This video only talks about EUCs, I haven’t investigated any other BMSs.
It does not. There are a lot of instructions online how to preserve a single cell Li-ion battery. This video applies to EUCs only (except V13 and S22) because of their large series packs and somewhat unique BMS features.
