Electricians: If You Do Jobs For 'Mate's Rates' You Need To Know This

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A shock survey this week reveals the true cost of jobs for friends and family…
…the taxman names and shames an electrical contractor who he says is refusing to pay his taxes…
…and, the big radial or ring debate. Where do YOU stand?
Welcome to Electrical News Weekly in association with The Electric Heating Company whether you're listening in the van, on site, or down at the wholesale counter.
============================================
Time Stamps ⏱
00:00 Electrical Industry News - Monday 18th December
00:35 Electricians lose on average £1400 per year doing work for free
01:44 Electrical Contractor named by HMRC for unpaid tax
02:12 Home batteries will be subject to VAT relief in certain scenarios
02:39 Get into battery installation with these new courses
03:15 Solar panels are also getting a boost from the Govt
03:48 Scientists break world record for solar panel efficiency
04:15 Another game changing technology for solar panel installers
04:34 A heated debate - ring or radial?
05:36 Last week's question of the week
06:09 We're in the market for your stories
06:47 Thanks to our premium partners
============================================
Show Notes 🗒️
Check out the free battery installation bootcamps 👉 teachatrade.co.uk/courses/the...
New game changing tech for solar installers 👉 • Solar PV Installer Sec...
Are you ring or radial? 👉 ru-vid.comaYMcNssqzkY
Complete the free smart charge point training module 👉 training.efixx.co.uk/course/s...
============================================
Electrical News Weekly in association with
The Electric Heating Company 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/electric-heati...
Thanks to our premium partners:
Lewden Palazolli 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/lewden-enw
Doncaster Cables 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/doncastercable...
Sunsynk 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/sunsynk-enw
Scame 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/scame-enw
===============================
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13 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 127

@Harrycowlton 5 месяцев назад

There is no loss of income working for mates, just less gain. That’s what friends do for each other!

@retrozmachine1189 5 месяцев назад

Yeah, but friends shouldn't be begging unless it's really needed either. It's a two way street. Personally when ever a mate does me a favour I always try to slip him/her a bit more.

@Dan-vh8gq 5 месяцев назад

If I am doing a job for a mate, it is still time away from my family. I know guys who have done a weeks work for friends and provided materials and their "friends" have fallen out with them. Also where do you draw the line? Do you do free work for all family? Or just certain people?

@einlehrling 5 месяцев назад

@@Dan-vh8gq I decide individually If it's a bigger project I usually say that i take what I regularly take but the materials should be on site so I don't have to drive a couple of times And smaller things for family and close friends I do for free Like changing one light for another

@eno88 5 месяцев назад

@@Dan-vh8gq where you draw the line is absolutely subjective. You can't set a baseline for something like this.

@TheJensss 5 месяцев назад

You help friends and family when they need it and they help you when you need it. It's as simple as that and friends and family should not be a source of income. Remember that the cost for you to help someone you care about is minimal, but the cost for them not to get help is substantial

@billsbasementworkshop1902 5 месяцев назад

Hi Joe. Yes I do work for family and friends but I charge the friends. The only people I don't charge is Family, I only charge for materials, but not for the labour.

@JimWhitaker 5 месяцев назад

Depends on which you value more, ££ or friends. Always a judgement call.

@christophergallagher3845 5 месяцев назад

Depends who the friend is , some get it free or cheap , others get told I'm too busy lol

@efixx 5 месяцев назад

That... is a very good point!

@Dime_Bar 5 месяцев назад

Depends on how good looking you find your friend as well.

@ef7480 5 месяцев назад

‘Income Tax’ UK Used to be a ‘tax return’ where you inform Inland Revenue of your business transactions and they suggest an amount of tax to pay. (some tax payable in a fair system is what most would agree on). This has evolved into a ‘tax demand’ enforced by the legislature and has become normalised as a crime if non compliance. Almost like an axiom in relation to the theory of finance.. Started in 1799 as a temporary measure to fund the ‘Napoleonic war’ (more gangsters causing trouble with other families). It is still a temporary arrangement today and has to be renewed on 5th April every year as set out in the ‘Annual Financial Bill’. Income tax was withdrawn in 1816 but was re-established in 1842 (imagine paying no tax for 26 years). The government does not own the product of your labour as this would imply that you are a slave and that ‘theft’ ‘blackmail’ and ‘extortion’ are means of stealing your earnings. Every government has claimed that ‘tax’ will supply you with ‘services’ and ‘protection’. However, if you do not transfer some of your earnings, then the ‘government’ will use legalised force and violence in the Mafia style to extract their claim of ownership. The majority of tax is spent on wars, bailing out banks, paying interest on IOU national debt bonds and ‘the deficit’. Approx 47% of your income is used for tax. Average 5 days a week of work to keep 54% of your wages. This is why both parents have to work constantly compared to 50 years ago. ‘Government’ do not make money for themselves but use sleight of hand to trick you and take it from your back pocket. ‘A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always rely on the support of Paul’

@deang5622 5 месяцев назад

Inland Revenue doesn't exist any more. It's HMRC and has been for quite a number of years.

@Bite_Me 5 месяцев назад

I'm always happy to do things for most (a whole other issue) friends and family as long as they get all the kit required, and most of them even do an channeling etc. that's required.

@BillyG175 5 месяцев назад

Thank you for your channel, I look forward to seeing it every week. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 🎉🎉🎉

@Riquelmoore 4 месяца назад

The worst is when its not appreciated, Ive done free for family and got a complaint after 8 hours work on a Sunday that I Wouldn't fit last minute spot lights at 6pm

@mickblower 5 месяцев назад

Another side to this is pricing, I considered myself a good gas engineer but my major down fall was pricing. Also don’t start me on landlords, most [not all] hate paying the invoice or try to chip you, if you are just starting out, avoid them at all costs.

@Jonnyturboable 5 месяцев назад

Good tip. From my experience landlords are incredibly tight and the tenant is generally annoyed at plenty of issues at the property. Avoid.

@AgentOffice 5 месяцев назад

They'll never pay

@g7eit 5 месяцев назад

Changed a CU for a lady last week. I could tell she was really struggling so I tore up her invoice even though I’m struggling myself. Sometimes you just to bite the bullet. She did hive me a hair band so I could ponytail my hair though 😂

@travoltasbiplane1551 5 месяцев назад

If she's struggling that much why replace the consumer unit? Or was it on fire?

@g7eit 5 месяцев назад

@@travoltasbiplane1551 one step away lol. If I’m honest it was very old and a mess. There was no room to get my old sausage fingers in there and I couldn’t be bothered messing with old crap so out it came.

@travoltasbiplane1551 5 месяцев назад

@@g7eit fair.

@abdulseaforth6930 5 месяцев назад

@@travoltasbiplane1551 you’re a nice person. Hope you’re not often taken advantage of

@travoltasbiplane1551 5 месяцев назад

@@abdulseaforth6930 I didn't do it I think you mean the original poster.

@lezbriddon 5 месяцев назад

just remember that 1400 beer tokens a year is lost tax to the government, charge your mates full dollar or rishi may be a bit hard up

@ChristianWagner888 5 месяцев назад

"Never do any work where the government does not get its full share" a friendly reminder from your tax collector. That's what I understood from the first two news items and the headline. Does eFIXX get sponsorships from the government?

@efixx 5 месяцев назад

We don't but we're always on the look-out for new customers... 😃

@SprocketN 5 месяцев назад

Used to do work for family and friends but ‘Part P’ stopped me. I’m an industrial maintenance engineer. So don’t have Part P qualifications, so I told them they’d have to get the work inspected so they may as well get someone approved to do part p work as it would be cheaper. My opinion is part p is to stop plumbers and kitchen fitters from doing electrical work. A qualified electrician should be automatically part p qualified, without extra ‘training’ and additional fees to pay.

@edc1569 5 месяцев назад

But they still do it.

@efixx 5 месяцев назад

Yes but it’s a great excuse when needed! 😄

@ukmal67r81 5 месяцев назад

You can’t be Part P qualified as it’s a building reg.

@SprocketN 5 месяцев назад

@@ukmal67r81 I work in industrial maintenance. I’ve no idea what Part P actually is other than a rule that says that I, a qualified electrician with thirty plus years of experience can’t do any new electrical work in a kitchen, bathroom or garden (is that what it covers?)

@travoltasbiplane1551 5 месяцев назад

@@SprocketNpart p is just electrical safety in building regulations. If you needed further training after the competent persons schemes came in then you needed it before as well sorry. Being a member of a sch me so you can self notify... Well that's a different story but again, assuming you're preparer to pay the money to be in the club, if you're qualified then you'll be fine. This age old whinge just won't die.

@retrozmachine1189 5 месяцев назад

If you love it, put a ring on it. For electrical, move into the 21st century and use radials.

@deang5622 5 месяцев назад

I have had silly arguments with "qualified" electricians that think rings are better because they are more resilient in that if one cable breaks or becomes disconnected, power continues to flow. But what these idiots forget is that when this happens the breaker rating is way higher than that single cable rating, meaning a potentially dangerous situation has now been created. And you don't know if one out of the two cables has become disconnected. So actually a ring is better under this fault condition because the power is removed completely and firstly you are still in a safe configuration and secondly you can tell it has failed because you have lost power. The greater resilience argument for a ring would be valid and only valid if the failure of one leg of the ring could be automatically detected and indicated so that remedial action could then be taken to address the disconnected leg. But that never happens. It's a pi55 poor argument for using a ring over a radial. And don't get me started on pathetic arguments about voltage drop and cable thickness. Easily debunked.

@Chris-hq5zs 5 месяцев назад

Pretty sure the exchequer’s clamp down on taxi drivers (monthly reporting) is a sign of things to come. Just got to work out how to pull an Amazon rather than Speedycabz 🤣

@sergiofernandez3725 5 месяцев назад

Defaulters and parachute are my guess on this weeks words. As for AFDDs well David.S at DSES needs to be consulted. His tests on some AFDDs have opened a lot of people eyes to the subject.

@efixx 5 месяцев назад

Good guesses Sergio! 👍

@TestGearJunkie. 5 месяцев назад

I was just going to say ask Davo 🤣

@retrozmachine1189 5 месяцев назад

Yes, indeed. Only certain brands of AFDDs are recommended by carbon arc lamp manufacturers.

@travoltasbiplane1551 5 месяцев назад

Ah yeah... David Savery's test will definitely take precedence over the mandatory testing in 62606

@retrozmachine1189 5 месяцев назад

@@travoltasbiplane1551 Yes, these products should be able to pass the minimum testing given they have approval for use. With what David has put AFDDs through with his wee box of tricks and still not been able to trip certain devices, perhaps the minimum testing to gain approval isn't as high a bar as it should be.

@jeremymoorcroft9835 5 месяцев назад

Mates rates should be paying your tradie mate the going rate for the job rather than taking advantage of your friend. Fair enough if self employed business owners trade their time and services but it needs to be mutually beneficial, not just you giving your time and resources away. If your friend has a steady job with an employer who pays them holiday and sick pay, it’s not fair of them to expect you to give a discount just because they know you. As self employed business owners we don’t get paid holidays, annual leave or sick pay, we have to work really hard to earn enough money to be able to afford to take time off work if we need to. Why should we have to support our friends who are in a much better position as an employee of a company? Mates rates should never be about someone getting a good deal at the expense of their friend.

@Dog-whisperer7494 5 месяцев назад

Greet news weekly Joe as always 👍I look forward to seeing more from you and team eFIXX in 2024. Merry Christmas 🎄 to you all and have a fantastic 2024 🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺

@efixx 5 месяцев назад

Thanks Sean! 👍

@Syelectrical 5 месяцев назад

Why are they naming and shaming tax dodgers, but not nonces?

@stevelawrence7111 5 месяцев назад

Rings are ok for kitchens etc Radials for other areas that only have a minimal load.

@jumper233 Месяц назад

My friends and family happily pay full going rate because they want me to succeed in my life.They insist I don't give them a deal.

@anthonystark6372 5 месяцев назад

Has anyone heard about 'GROUNDING' to your bed for health reasons? Health mats that connect to the earth in the electrical system. Would it be better to run a separate earth wire to a rod outside away from the property either to the bed or ground mat in your living room? Potentially, connecting to the mains earth wire could be dangerous with a defective circuit with largish voltages appearing on the earth. Maybe a video on this could be helpful for people who are thinking about doing this.

@electricalstuff259 5 месяцев назад

Is it £1.2bn in losses or £1.2bn in savings for people that didn't have to pay as much?

@efixx 5 месяцев назад

Fair point 👍

@user-DANWALKER1066 5 месяцев назад

IT BUGS ME WHEN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO PAY OR THINK ITS OK TO DEVALUE A MANS WAGE. I WEIGH UP IF I WANTED SOMETHING FROM THAT PERSON WOULD I GET IT REDUCED OR FREE?! ITS HARD WORK TO EARN A SALARY AFTER OVERHEADS ETC TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT

@tlangdon12 5 месяцев назад

It should be a matter of pride to pay the going rate for a job.

@user-DANWALKER1066 5 месяцев назад

@@tlangdon12 Yes! I don’t think it should be given free it’s like slavery. It’s only fair to pay like you would to anybody else.

@electricalstuff259 5 месяцев назад

I will help family out if i have nothing else on, they just have to cover my expenses for the day. I'm not taking time off other work to do it though.

@abdulseaforth6930 5 месяцев назад

Radial finals- I test my own installs

@tzenophile 5 месяцев назад

Now, what about all those electricians (or their companies) who overcharge their customers? It probably more than evens out in the end.

@garrywatters1140 5 месяцев назад

Paying a tax that is never used for the benefit of the British public. Stuff the tax man.

@deang5622 5 месяцев назад

You can stuff the tax man if you like, and are willing to go to jail for stuffing him....

@garrywatters1140 5 месяцев назад

@@deang5622 Been there done that.

@gavjlewis 5 месяцев назад

@1:20 I not sure i can use "other better paid work" as an excuse as im usually sat on my arse watching TV on a Sunday afternoon! 😂 At the end of the day if i don't do family work they will either do it themselves, and I'll want to check it or they get a different electrician, and I'll want to check it. Its not totally free really as I'll get some food and some beer out of it.

@johnbee1574 5 месяцев назад

Solar has already reached 47percent in the lab also Obviously it’s personal preference but I always help friends and family out especially the one that can offer me mates rates season tickets.

@deang5622 5 месяцев назад

Doubtful. Perovskites hit 25.5% and that is still in the lab. Please provide evidence of your 47% figure.

@Dog-whisperer7494 5 месяцев назад

I never do anything for nothing or discounts for anyone not even family and friends. If there not happy to pay me then they are free to get someone else in to do the work.

@efixx 5 месяцев назад

Noted!

@edc1569 5 месяцев назад

Wow. Makes me feel like a mug for all the family I’ve helped out recover lost data and so on, always enjoyed being able to help them.

@DS1-1a 5 месяцев назад

Mates rates problems: No income tax paid Most likely no testing or issue of electrical certification Devalues the electrical trade itself.

@rogerdavid3297 5 месяцев назад

i retired in 2015, i was a maintenance electrician. my hourly wage worked out at 30 pounds per hour. i now hear the guys i used to work with are on 50 pounds per hour. i never did jobs at mates rates.

@efixx 5 месяцев назад

Fair play. 👍

@duckman5642 5 месяцев назад

Where's that, my hourly rate is £14.50.

@greggbutler9344 5 месяцев назад

@@duckman5642 do you work at B&Q in the electrical department 😂😂😂😂😂

@adamduff2907 5 месяцев назад

Parachute and Rankers 👍👍

@MrRawMonkey 5 месяцев назад

Mates rates = cash in hand so not tax.

@efixx 5 месяцев назад

We couldn’t possibly comment 😉

@dougsaunders8109 5 месяцев назад

Have good Christmas gents

@travoltasbiplane1551 5 месяцев назад

I bet most who voted for radials are launching in a2 circuits even if they arent just clipped direct.

@adriandarke5393 5 месяцев назад

Most decent people, family and friends should ask you after you completed the "helpout me out"..how much gratis is required, the decision is upto you based onif they ask?, merit, family relation and the values of friendship. Work is payable, gratis is nothing to do with HMRC.

@johnavery15 5 месяцев назад

Rancour and buddy are this weeks words?

@Danny-204 5 месяцев назад

I charge everyone for work I do I don’t do mates rates, if you do you lose all respect. Apart from a mate of mine who is a mechanic and he dose my cars for free and do work in his house for free. It’s worked well for years ,

@washellwash1802 5 месяцев назад

Most of the jobs I did for family and friends would not have been done at all, or by incompetently by themselves, and I didn't do them during work hours. While it may be fun to translate them to full cost, full billable hours to calculate a nice headline grabbing number of "lost income", it's nowhere near the truth.

@dougsaunders8109 5 месяцев назад

£1,2bn eh, two retires 😂. What it does not say of course is what you get mates rates back on, plumbers spread or other professional

@alpachino468 4 месяца назад

Ha! Electricians have got it easy. Try being an IT engineer and seeing how much you end up potentially losing fixing F&F's computers and/or re-installing Windows for the millionth time...

@efixx 4 месяца назад

We share your pain 😫

@Mladjasmilic 5 месяцев назад

About ring circuits: It is impossible for every joint to have the perfect connection, and therefore there must be a ring imbalance. So your whole house acts like a huge coil, and everything metal vibrates at 50Hz. If you want to save on copper, mandate 3 phases for all high power devices. I live in Serbia and you can have over 7kW at just 10A per wire, instead of 30A, so we use 2x less copper even though we have more wire cores.

@edc1569 5 месяцев назад

Fella your radial at the far end is just the same. Making the short link back to the fuse board does not summon evil spirits. Your points on 3 phase are valid, but I counter them with the additional costs and complexity for battery and PV energy systems.

@markrainford1219 5 месяцев назад

@@edc1569 👹👹😂

@retrozmachine1189 5 месяцев назад

@@edc1569 For battery and PV itself there doesn't have to be any difference at all, apart from wattage/amp hours, since if you need 3 phase you obviously have large power requirements. For the actual AC production side of the inverter, then you can get more expense. Even so it's not justifiably huge given what is required. Of course there's many ways to skin a cat. A person might just decide to have 3 separate arrays feeding 3 single phase inverters, each attached to one phase of the supply.

@retrozmachine1189 5 месяцев назад

@@edc1569 Rings don't summon evil spirits. As we all know the Devil is in the detail, and with ring circuits there's a fair bit more detail (testing) involved.

@graemewallace9491 5 месяцев назад

When ever I get asked I just say I’m to busy, sorry… 9 x out of 10 it’s not a lie

@MarcusNailor 5 месяцев назад

Parachute & rancour

@shaneproctor7932 5 месяцев назад

Curry and c3po? Merry Christmas to all :)

@ianbird4737 5 месяцев назад

Parachute and rancour.

@efixx 5 месяцев назад

Good guesses Ian, make sure you listen to next week's show to see if you got it right! 😃

@kevinhenryviii 5 месяцев назад

Instagrammable and Ranker

@adamdavies8076 5 месяцев назад

Instagramable and Parachute

@abdulseaforth6930 5 месяцев назад

Bye Joe- ff to check out Gordon

@mark_just_mark 5 месяцев назад

Parachute and Boffins

@TheAlaminator1 5 месяцев назад

Boffins + thunder

@TurboBaldur 5 месяцев назад

It should absolutely be illegal to use ring circuits on new construction in 2023. They are a fire hazard and EMI disaster. If a fault in the ring develops you won't detect it and the idiotic code allowed for ring circuits to have half of the required wire gauge on the fairy tale premise that every conductor will share the load equally. That would be all good and well if the circuit protection devices could detect high resistance in the ring live or neutral and shut off if one end of the ring exceeds what the wire can handle safely. Same with EMI, if one conductor's path has ever slightly more impedance than the other (and it always will) the ring circuit becomes a gigantic antenna loop because the live and return current are not equal and you and all your electronics are right inside the loop.

@TurboBaldur 5 месяцев назад

And for older installations that get updated, if I were the regulator the ring circuit could only be recertified to carry whatever the capacity of a single conductor is, so for the typical 2.5mm2 circuit that would be 16 amps. Only way I'd certify it to carry more is with a 4 gang breaker, where each live or neutral conductor has its own 16 amp circuit and they all trip together if any one of the wires sees a load greater than 16 amps. Two 2.5mm2 conductors in parallel on a 32 amp breaker is dodgy bullshit.

@deang5622 5 месяцев назад

No, you are getting mixed up. You don't need non identical magnitude of currents down a large loop to create electromagnetic radiation. If that were true, no radio frequency antenna would work. Where you are getting confused is the production of a magnetic field. If you take for example, using a current ttransformer to measure current such as in a non contact ammeter, if you put the current transformer around both line and neutral then the magnetic fields from each wire cancel out because the current which is creating that mag field is flowing in opposite directions, and the overall mag field is zero, and the ammeter will record zero or close to zero amps. What you need to realise, and a lot of people get confused by it, is there are actually magnetic fields, electric fields and electromagnetic fields. None of these are the same thing. The electric field is created by the presence of electric charge, a voltage. And radiates out from the electric charge. The magnetic field is created by a current flowing in the wire, and again radiates around and out from the wire. An electromagnetic field, the presence of photons of radio frequency energy comprise a photon which separates from the wire and moves away at the speed of light, and that photon comprises an electric field component and magnetic field component, both of which are changing, and are perpendicular to each other and perpendicular to the direction of motion. So yes, a ring main may not have equal currents in both legs and that will give rise to a net magnetic field looking from outside some distance away from the ring, but that is NOT what causes the emission of radio frequency interference. What causes the RFI is the presence of a changing current, and how effectively that transmits or radiates away from the wire is a function of the frequency of the mains electricity and length of the wire, and shape.

@TurboBaldur 5 месяцев назад

@@deang5622 I didn't get anything wrong. When the ring is healthy the return current of any load should follow the same path as the feed current, that is at any point in the loop the live and neutral currents should be equal and opposite cancelling each other out. If you have a poor connection in the neutral or poor connection in the live wire at any point in the loop that will break this balance and the return current has to take a different path causing magnetic fields around the conductors. But this will only happen at low frequencies, RF noise will still take the correct return path.

@christophergallagher3845 5 месяцев назад

Why are efixx naming and shaming a tax dodger ? If his works good quality and his employees get paid then who cares (except hmrc )

@efixx 5 месяцев назад

Maybe all other tax-paying citizens? 🤷

@markyd2633 5 месяцев назад

Because he's a tax dodger....end of ..

@christophergallagher3845 5 месяцев назад

@@efixx I've never saw the efix call out the corporations who dodge tax . Not saying what he's doing is right , just found it weird it was in the video .

@christophergallagher3845 5 месяцев назад

Next week on efix , an electrician who doesn't pay his TV licence 😂

@edc1569 5 месяцев назад

Electricians love to charge like they are professions but then behave like this. If you keep losing work because your tax dodging colleagues are undercutting you is that not perhaps a problem.

@eno88 5 месяцев назад

"doing cheap labour means that they are missing out on other better paying work" No. No it does not. Just as not going out of the house does not mean missing out on getting hit by a car, just as pirating a videogame isn't theft. Doing cheap labour does not automatically mean you had some other better job lined up, ready to go, but all of a sudden you get a call from your pensioner aunt, asking for help with the kettle fuse. And for Pete's sake, even if that were the case, you have more than two neurons, you can prioritize. There's nothing wrong with helping your family, yes even for free, IF it costs you next to nothing to get there and do the thing. Working for "mate rates" isn't less money for the electrician, it's helping out people you care about. Hell, you may saving them from some unscrupulous prick that would've charged them an arm for the work. What it is really it's less money for HMRC, which I feel is the real "problem".

@youubik 5 месяцев назад

Why did you choose this guy from NewtonleWillows to shame for tax fraud, there are at least 3 other electricians on the HMRC 7th Dec 2023 list

@deang5622 5 месяцев назад

Why should he have to list them all? What if that list was 100 people long, do you think he should mention them all? Don't you think that is a bit silly? What are you trying to infer from the fact he has only referenced one? And why does it matter to you?

@youubik 5 месяцев назад

@@deang5622 I didn't mention listing them all. You did Why should he list them all. Thats a question for you since you mentioned it

@deang5622 5 месяцев назад

@@youubik Are you really that stupid? Seriously dude. You asked the question why did he chose that one particular tax evader when there are three others. So you tell us why you have a problem with his only reporting on only one of them? That's down to you to answer that, not me. Do us a favour and stop playing childish mind games.