Excellent work. Having spent 30-odd years in environmental protection and pollution control dealing with the industrial sized versions of these it is great to see such a clear and practical demonstration of the technology. I think I'll have a go at this myself (anything to avoid dusting). Subs +1.
Thanks. On the ones you worked with, did you have an issue with ozone production? The design of this one requires high enough voltages to produce ozone and so is not a good idea to use it in an unventilated place or for too long. And welcome to the channel.
@@RimstarOrg You're welcome. Yes, they were known to produce ozone but at the time ground level ozone wasn't as much a concern as the fine particulates the EPs arrested (in fact it still isn't - atmospheric ultra-fines are a major killer). In an enclosed space it is an entirely different matter and you're quite right, ozone there is a real risk. In an enclosed space it would be best to strip the ozone out before it leaves the stack. Thanks for the welcome - very greatly appreciated.
I made mine using a concave tea strainer for the metal mesh HV-, some steel wool for HV+ and a DC 400KV Boost Step-up Power Module High-voltage Generator i got from ebay for a high voltage supply source. First I tried using aluminium foil as you used for HV+, but the apparatus refused to work no matter what I tried. I was frustrated and ready to give up when I decided to switch aluminium foil to steel wool. Luckily, it worked like a charm! I was amazed by the results! Lesson learned : never give up! RimstarOrg keep up the good work! I love your videos!
Thanks! And cool! Glad to hear it worked! And I've been there many times myself. Often if it doesn't work then just step away and come back to it later. Maybe it worked because your input voltage was lower than you thought, or the PSU couldn't keep up with enough current losses to keep the voltage up. That would mean the foil would be too rounded and needed a sharper edge. The sharp points of the steel wool, or the thin wool wires may have provided that sharped edge. Something like that. At least it worked! Yay!
Cleaning up smoke using a homemade smoke precipitator aka electrostatic precipitator. It does produce ozone though. But this is what ones on the market do. Someday I'll try it on a car exhaust.
varun rao Glad you liked it. The smoke particles end up coating the aluminum foil cylinder. I think it would still work if I covered the cylinder with paper towel and it coated the paper towel instead. I've done so many interesting projects with this high voltage power supply that it's worth looking into making one. In case you haven't seen it, here's my video about making it ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GEuK1OdYxHk.html
varun rao I powered my smoke precipitator using my commercially made 27cm diameter disks Wimshurst machine last night. It got rid of almost all the smoke, but that's close enough that I'm sure with some tweaking of the mesh or diameter or ... it could get rid of all of it. A Wimshurst machine is much lower current than the power supply in the video so that opens it up to many more power sources. Hopefully that helps.
It's DC but it's 21,000 volts DC. So you can't use batteries or a normal power supply. See my follow-up video where I measure it and test some other power supply options ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html
Watching this video reminded me of my uncle Bob Odell. He would patiently teach us all kinds of engineering using simple examples. I thoroughly enjoyed this. Thandk you!!
I would love to install a larger version of this technology on the exhaust system of my gasoline/fossil fuel/petrol powered automobile. and furthermore, if this technology could entirely replace the present catalytic converters in the exhaust system, this could contribute to highly reduced automobile pricing, because catalytic converters require very expensive materials which also have a limited lifespan. this is wonderful tech, indeed! thank you for making this wonderful video!
Very interesting! My first thought was whether a wood stove could be rigged with a steam turbine to produce enough electricity to scrub its own exhaust whilst still heating a room. The question of cost vs benefit could be a major one, in such a trivial case.
A wood stove would be an interesting one to experiment with. These electrostatic precipitators are used on an industrial scale for scrubbing or filtering. It does output ozone though.
+ganesh br I didn't measure the voltage but you need high voltage, somewhere around 20,000 volts. PS. You don't have a Reply button for your comment. You need to change the Google+ setting "Who can reply to you public posts" to "Anyone".
@@RimstarOrg good day. Will a supply unit work that supplies the high voltage for an ozone generator that uses these blue ceramic plates that produce a blue corona for a precipitator?
Good point. I've never run it for very long, just to try out and demonstrate the basic principle. I don't recall soot gathering on the wire, but if it does then you'd need to replace or clean it every now and then. I suspect that it doesn't gather there because soot does gather on the foil and is hard, if not impossible to clean off. Meanwhile, the device kept working so little or no soot must have been sticking to the wires. But as I said, I didn't run it for long.
Cool experiment! Is this how they used to make those "smokeless ashtrays"? It seems like they inverted your design and the ion wind would suck the smoke down through the bottom.
Thanks! A quick search online found a few smokeless ashtrays but they used fans to suck the air in and ran the air through charcoal filters. So as far as I can see, they don't work this way.
To get it so there's no visible smoke coming out, I'd estimate 20kV * 250 microamps = 4 watts at the output from the power supply roughly. But there are probably a lot of parameters that can be played with like the density of the mesh, wire size, using plates instead of wires, diameter, spacing between the mesh and cylinder, ... I had it working with a Wimshurst machine last night which has much lower current, but there was still a little smoke coming out.
cool! I ponder if it is possible to create a functioning smoke precipitator for laser engraving. It is common laser engravers has an air assist (air blowing away smoke from the burning focus point) , it word be cool to collect this so the wood/paper etc don't get tarnished by swirling smoke.
ad an air evacuation system that pulls the smoke away and out. once out the smoke can be filtered in any number of ways including electrostatic like this. Tip, use smaller fans to suck out the smoke and maybe a small fan to first blow it away from the laser engraving so the smoke will not block the laser beam. This is a pretty common problem in laser engraving so you should be able to find plenty of examples online.
@@robert5 For laser we use mostly a high flow rate fan with a 150 mm hose. Would be really good to collect all the particles. But there are glue residue, smoke inside....
Sir, In the page where you explained how to make a Wimshurst machine ,one of your answers to the questions stated that it had no practical use ,but here you have stated that you used it to power the electrostatic precipitator can you explain how ?
+sciencenerds Theoretically I guess you could but the soldering would have to be done pretty close to the inlet since the suction isn't that strong. Much simpler to use a fan and a hose I think.
Its an amazing Project. Very Informative. I tried to do the same. But I was using Two 9V battery for input and 40KV Step up module. I am getting the spark but precipitator is not working. If the smoke needs to be captured what is the kind input voltage I should use and what is the kind of transformer that I should use. Please let me know. that will be very helpful
In my follow-up video I think I measured 21kV ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html . In that video I also show it working with a Wimshurst machine (30 cm disks), so that's another option. Your two 9V batteries stepped up to 40kV probably didn't supply enough current. It needs high voltage but also enough current to do the necessary amount of ionization. I don't have a number for how much current though. It you are getting a spark though, then your mesh is too close to the cylinder, move them apart more. I also show that in the follow-up video.
Theoretically one can be made that size. Electrostatic precipitators are used in industry for all sorts of things and are much, much larger. Electrostatic air cleaners are available that are around window size. I don't know how well it would work with pollen. Interesting question. My guess is it'd work but I don't know for sure.
+N Prãvēëñ Çhäñdhâr I didn't measure the voltage. It's partly determined by the distance between the mesh and the foil. With the distance I used I suspect mine was around 20,000 volts. You could probably get it down to the 4-digit voltages range, so somewhere between 1000 and 9999 volts since I think the voltages of the commercially made ionizers' are in that range. You do need some current too for the ionization. For example, my CD Wimshurst machine and my Van de Graaff generators mad using soda cans have the voltage but not the current. However, if you look at the bottom of my webpage here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/electrostatic_precipitator_smoke_precipitator_simple.htm you'll see I got it working with a commercially made Wimshurst machine with 27cm (1 foot) disks.
I don't know if it would work for lead casting fumes. I really don't know what fumes it would work with except that it works with carbon/soot. This technique is used a lot in the manufacturing industry though so I'm sure it's not limited to soot.
Hi! I am really amazed by your work. However, i just would like to ask if HV power supply produces only a positive charge. And if so, how would I get a negative charge from the earth ground? Can you please help me and explain it to me. Thank you so much.
thank you for sharing this amazing project.please advise on how i can generate high voltage power.i do not have easy access to buy a high voltage supply online. i enquired about electric fence motor but that will only generate 9-10000 v. what can i buy that will be affordable and accessible at any average electrical shop? please help
I don't think you can buy high voltage power supplies in any average electrical shop. I can't say for sure since I'm not familiar with your electric fence motor, but it may be possible that it will work. You'll have to put the foil cylinder closer to the mesh so that it will work with lower voltage like your 10000V.
Besides that, would it make a difference if i were to increase the size of both the wire mesh and radius of the foil? and will this work when being connected to a voltage multiplier that would produce 10kV and above but low in current?
+Darren Tan The affect that the increased size has really depends on where the ionization is happening. Most of the ionization is happening between the circumference of the foil cylinder and the nearest parts of the mesh. So I'd recommend staying with relatively small radius. Ideally you'd have that distance between the cylinder and mesh perfectly the same all around the circumference but that's very hard to achieve. I didn't even try. I got it to with with my commercially made Wimshurst machine which you can see at the bottom of my webpage here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/electrostatic_precipitator_smoke_precipitator_simple.htm. A Wimshurst machine is quite low current so if you have a low current voltage multiplier then I suspect it would work, though I can't say for sure.
How is the High voltage connected through the aluminium foil? is it just barely in contact with each other? and as you mentioned in your video, the aluminium foil connected to a positive high voltage output, does that mean that both the negative and positive must be supplied with both high voltage of 10kV-20kV? Hope to get a quick response cause this is for a school project
+Darren Tan The wire is taped to the aluminum foil so it's a solid connection. You can see it in the video at 1:59. The negative can go through the power supply and be an actual high voltage negative or it can be a connection to ground as long as the power supplies positive is relative to ground (my power supply is that way.) So in the video I was using HV positive for the foil and ground for the mesh. Contrast that with where I used my Wimshurst machine where it is high voltage positive for the foil and high voltage negative for the mesh (in that case ground is somewhere between but it doesn't matter.)
+Itz Yash A soda can Van de Graaff generator probably wouldn't be able to power it. One with a larger dome should be able to though. The same for Wimshurst machines. A Wimshurst machine made using CDs probably wouldn't be able to but one with larger disks should. My commercially made Wimshurst machine with 27cm diameter disks was able to power the precipitator. PS. If you want people to be able to Reply to you directly then go to your Google+ settings and change the "who can reply to public posts" to Anyone.
+Itz Yash I haven't tried it myself so I can't be sure it will work. However, if it's a big enough Van de Graaff then it should be comparable to my 27cm diameter Wimshurst machine. This precipitator is simple enough to build and try so you should try it and see. Let me know how it goes.
I didn't have a cigarette to try so I can't say for sure. Note that with this design, the voltage required is around 21,000 volts. At that voltage, it also produces ozone, which is hazardous to your health in large quantities.
Aishwarya Aishu No, the voltage and current from that Wimshurst machine is too small. It just barely works with my commercially made 27cm disk Wimshurst machine.
Aishwarya Aishu Make the Wimshurst machine with larger diameter disks, minimum 27cm diameter. Every other alternative is much harder involving making or buying a high voltage DC power supply that can supply high voltage but also a decent amount of current.
Hi, I'm looking to make an ESP for a class project. I don't have a lot of knowledge in electrical engineering, but would be very grateful if you helped me out. Do you know if it it is possible to run this with a car ignition coil that steps up from 12V to 26KV at 2,000 RPM and 17KV at 8,000RPM? If it is possible, my further question is how I can safely ground the current, since the coil only has a positive output. And finally, after running, how would I be able to discharge the entire assembly. Looking forward to any advice you might have. Thank you!
+Unoriginal Dealer I don't know enough about ignition coils in cars to say much. The output has to be DC, not AC. The chassis of a car is used as ground by all the car components so you can too but I don't know if the output of the ignition coil is high voltage with respect to the car's ground.
You have the mesh attached to earth ground. So due to the high voltage applied to the cylinder, the mesh has a much lower voltage is comparison i.e. creating a potential difference. The corona is therefore due to electrons jumping from the cylinder to the mesh...which in turn negatively charges our smoke particles passing through? Am I correct in say this? Is there any added advantage to applying an even more negative voltage to the mesh? Would this be the same as just raising the voltage at the cylinder because it's all about creating a greater potential difference?
Regarding your first paragraph, a voltage is a measure between two things, the cylinder and the mesh in this example. So saying that there's a high voltage on the cylinder but a lower voltage on the mesh doesn't make sense. There's a high voltage between the two, your potential difference. Instead you could compare the voltage on the cylinder to Earth ground and say that there's a high voltage between the cylinder and Earth ground. And since the mesh is connected to Earth ground, there's 0 volts between the Earth ground and the mesh. However, that's not true once the power supply is turned on since the positively charged cylinder attracts electrons from the Earth ground to the mesh, and so the mesh becomes negatively charged and is no longer at 0 volts with respect to Earth ground. Regarding your second paragraph, after reading what I said above, you can see that the electrons jump from the mesh to the cylinder. Smoke particles either get negatively charged at the mesh or as you say, from the corona in between. They're then attracted to the positively charged cylinder. Increasing the voltage wouldn't actually increase the voltage since the maximum voltage is limited by the distance between the mesh and cylinder and also the geometry of the mesh and cylinder. Turning up the voltage would only supply more current (assuming your power supply doesn't limit the current, mine doesn't). So if you were measuring both voltage and current while you turned up the voltage, you'd see the voltage level off and the current continue to increase. This would be good since that current supplies more charge for ionizing more smoke particles. Would there be an advantage to supplying a negative voltage? The Earth ground that the mesh is connected to already has all the electrons you'll ever need. So all that supplying a negative voltage will do is increase the voltage between the cylinder and the mesh, which as the previous paragraph pointed out, will increase the current and be a good thing. However, the same thing can be achieved by leaving the mesh at ground and increasing the positive voltage on the cylinder. The result will be the same I think.
Super video, subscribed! Thanks indeed. I wonder if this could be scaled up for home carbon-fuelled oven installations? What kind of voltage are you running here? Perhaps a different metal will give a different result also..?
I don't think a different metal would help but a thinner wire in the mesh would decrease the voltage needed. As for scaling it up, you'd have to do a bit of redesign but it should be doable. There are precipitators used for industrial systems. However, as you saw in the follow-up voltage, it produces ozone, which in large enough quantities is harmful to your health.
+kmidgley Good question. But now that you ask, I don't recall ever smelling the scent of these particular incense sticks. I bought them purely because they put out a lot of smoke for these smoke tests. I did, however, smell the ozone produced by the corona in the gap between the mesh and the cylinder, so that leads me even more to think that these sticks don't smell. Or maybe my nose isn't very sensitive to their scent.
Good question. This high voltage power supply which I use in this video is dangerous unless you know how to work with high voltage safely. However, in my follow-up video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html I demonstrate it using a Wimshurst machine which is much safer and would be a great addition to your school's science/physics classroom if you have one. Note that it has to be a Wimshurst machine with a disk around the size I use in the video or larger (around 27cm/11 inches in diameter). A Wimshurst machine with disks the size of a CD/DVD probably won't work. If by an induction coil you mean a step-up transformer then no, that won't give high enough voltage. If you mean something like an autotransformer then maybe. You'd have to turn the output into DC though. The video I link to above shows that I measured the required voltage at around 21,000 volts for this design of smoke precipitator.
I'm assuming by FBT you mean flyback transformer. The output of a flyback transformer is AC whereas the precipitator needs DC. However, almost all flybacks you find these days have a built in diode to the output which converts the AC to pulsed DC. That's what I have in my Cube power supply (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--KFhBVfpfDw.html). However, I tried the Cube with my precipitator and the voltage wasn't high enough. Here's the follow-up video where I show trying the Cube, and other power supplies, with the precipitator ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html. You could try to come up with a different precipitator design that would work with a lower voltage. The power supply in the video does actually have a flyback in it, but a rare, and very hard to find one without the built in diode, so its output is AC. However, the output of the flyback goes to a Cockcroft-Walton voltage multiplier, aka tripler, that both steps up the voltage and converts it from AC to DC. So with the higher voltage DC, this one works. Here's the link to it on my website rimstar.org/equip/30kv_pwr_supply.htm.
I want to build an electrostatic precipitator for some experimentation on particle separation of about 100 microns. The two materials have similar resistivity and are similarly sized, so it is important to dial in the perfect spot where maximum separation occurs. If possible I would like to take some quantitative measurements of the current needed. Can you recommend a voltmeter and a cheap high power supply that I don't have to build that should work for my purposes?
For measuring current, use an analog meter (i.e. one with a needle display, not digital.) Digital meters don't work well or last long when connected along a high voltage wire in my experience. For high power supply, if you want to make your own then there's my "How to Make 30kV High Voltage DC Power Supply with Flyback & Cockcroft-Walton Multiplier Tripler". For buying one, I'm not aware of all online sources. amazing1.com/ has some, though if you're doing real research you might want one with current, as well as voltage control but I don't have any sources for you on those. They're basically lab power supplies.
I have a question. Can you help? I want to make a project about your work. But I don't know how to do it like that Because I tried to do it with no results I want you to help
You'll have to describe what you tried before I can help. Note that this design needs around 21,000 volts. I also have a follow-up video which may help ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html
No, for this one you need 21,000v. The easiest is to get a Wimshurst machine like the one I show in my follow-up video here ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html. You can buy them on ebay.com by searching for "Wimshurst machine".
+Itz Yash Please fix your Reply button. It's very time consuming replying this way. The space between the foil and jar is optional. I put it there to give the smoke an additional path to travel.
For the diameter of the foil, I just went by the diameter of the plastic jar. It doesn't really matter. For the roundness of the bottom edge of the foil, I just guessed what might be good. I didn't want it to be sharp. The height of the foil can be anything over an inch or so. I determined that because that's around the height of the foil for a lifter which uses a similar principle in order to fly (here's my video on making a lifter ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vzZy1Aqleno.html). For the distance between the wire mesh and aluminum foil, you want it to be as close as you can get it without causing sparks between the foil and the mesh. I show testing that distance in this follow-up video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html.
With a negative ion generator say im lucky and you get -10k out of it, could i connect the bottom screen to the negative output and ground my positive foil ? i'm going to try this but im just wondering if this electrostatic interaction will yield similiar results. For instance why did you choose to use the positive end of your HV supply oppose to the negative side? thanks, great vids!
David Roslin Yes, connecting the -10k to the screen and grounding the foil will work, provided -10k is enough voltage. If you don't get results then decrease the distance between the screen and foil until you do. If you keep decreasing it and get sparks with still no precipitating then you could try making your foil have a rounder bottom edge.The power supply I used has only a positive HV output, no negative HV, so I had no choice. I put negative on the bottom (the ground was negative with respect to the +HV) for no good reason. Just a random choice. Actually, the nice thing about having ground on the bottom is that the feed wire can be sitting on the table instead of having to be raised up with plastic jars or something for more efficiency.I also got it working with my Wimshurst machine where there was only +HV and -HV with no ground (plus.google.com/116395125136223897621/posts/Wr8EWoc4bSc).
RimstarOrg many thanks for your reply and input. Have you gathered any soot off of your collector and tried to identify any of those particles? I think that under certain circumstances that they could be nanoparticles?
David Roslin I didn't examine it closely but there was definitely a hard to remove, yellowish or brownish coating on it after running it for a few minutes.
RimstarOrg The negative ion generator makes negative electricity for instance and yours creates only positive. Is that because their opposite charge is missing? do you know of any circuits that make both polarities?? cockroft-walton multiplier has an output based on cirguit geometry, is this why?
David Roslin Yes, mine creates a positive charge by removing a lot of the electrons, which are negatively charged. That leaves more protons than electrons, and protons are positively charged.A negative ion generator, on the other hand, inserts extra electrons so you end up with more negatively charged electrons than positively charged protons.For high voltage, I once made a power supply that produces positive charge, negative charge and also no charge. You can see it here rimstar.org/equip/pos_neg_voltage_multiplier.htm.But it looks like you were on the right track since it uses two Cockroft-Walton voltages multipliers, one for the positive and one for the negative. And the difference is determined by the direction of the diodes in the circuit. You can see that if you look carefully at the schematic on the webpage.Another positive/negative high voltage power supply is a Wimshurst machine. The inner cylinder of one Leyden jar along with the side of the spark gap connected to that cylinder is positive, and the inner cylinder of the other Leyden jar along with the side of the spark gap connected to that cylinder is negative. I actually got my commercially made Wimshurst machine to work with this smoke precipitator and you can see that here RimstarOrg/posts/Wr8EWoc4bSc?pageId=116395125136223897621.
This design requires around 21,000 volts DC. Since so many people were asking, I made this follow-up video where I show the measurement as well as a few powering options ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html
I hope to try it on car exhaust at some point. I don't have a car (no need for one where I live, everything's in walking distance) so I'd have to talk a friend into letting me try it on theirs. I was thinking of just putting paper towel or something on the plates to collect the particles. The paper towel wouldn't interfere with the electric field.
Nice video!....I'm an architect and I have no working knowledge of electronics.....Could use please guide me on how to create or buy high voltage power supply unit?
+Sagar Lohar To make the one I use in this video I have full details, including a how-to video, on rimstar.org/equip/30kv_pwr_supply.htm. To buy one I'd recommend www.amazing1.com/hv-dc-power-supplies.html. Any one there will do. Alternatively, my commercially made Wimshurst machine (from ebay.com rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/wimshurst_machine.htm) worked with this precipitator and you can see photos at the bottom here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/electrostatic_precipitator_smoke_precipitator_simple.htm.
I used my 30kV homemade high voltage power supply ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GEuK1OdYxHk.html but my commercially made Wimshurst machine works too. You can see all that in my follow-up video were I also measure the voltage ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html which turned out to be around 21kV.
The ground wire is connected to the same one that the high voltage power supply uses. So the high voltage positive is relative to ground. If you have a high voltage power supply who's positive and negative outputs are floating (i.e., they're not relative to ground) then you have no idea what voltage they are relative to the table, which is at ground potential. So you could get unexpected effects.
Essentially, yes. Mine doesn't have a pin marked as negative but rather a pin marked as ground. But this power supply doesn't use the output of the flyback. The output of the flyback goes to the input of a voltage multiplier. The output of the voltage multiplier is the output of the power supply. Here's my webpage all about it rimstar.org/equip/30kv_pwr_supply.htm . I did try powering this smoke precipitator using a power supply who's output was the output of a flyback with a built-in diode (to get high voltage DC) but I didn't have any success. You can see that one in my follow-up video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html at around 2 minutes and 4 seconds in. You can find details about that power supply here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/high_voltage_power_supply_w_flyback_transformer_builtin_diodes.htm
I haven't tried a Van de Graaff, but it would depend on the the machine too. It would probably have the required voltage, but it's the current that it may be lacking in (for the ions). With a Van de Graaff, the wider the belt and the faster the belt moves, the higher the current. I doubt very much that my soda can Van de Graff with its rubber band belt would have enough current so I've never tried it. I did get it working with a Wimshurst machine though, one with big disks. See this video here for my experiments and voltage measurements ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html. Regarding moving the mesh and aluminum cylinder farther apart, you'd want to do the opposite. The closer together they are the lower the required voltage (the required current isn't affected by the spacing). I also experiment with that in the video I linked to.
Hello, I'm from Venezuela and I'm trying to make an electrostatic precipitator as you did in your video, It is for a subject in my university. I'm trying to make it work but it doesn't look like it is actually working. I tried applying 7,3KV but the smoke easily go through the machine. I could use some help. Thanks in advance.
Carlos Carrillo Ortega 7.3 kV may not be enough. Try decreasing the distance between the mesh and the foil cylinder. A shorter distance requires less voltage.What are you using for your power supply?
Carlos Carrillo Ortega I didn't measure the voltage. Based on the distance and the fact that it wasn't sparking, I'd guess somewhere around 10kV to 20kV. But as I said, a smaller distance would need a smaller voltage. I asked about your power supply because you do need some current too, since that's what gives the charge to ionize the particles. But it doesn't need to be too much current either since I got it working with my commercially made Wimshurst machine as you can see here plus.google.com/116395125136223897621/posts/Wr8EWoc4bSc
Enjoyed that, it takes the mystery out of ionizers in a fun to build way. Hmm, would this work ? Take the 1 wire output from a decent 12V Tesla tower Slayer Exciter and run that to the foil top piece, virtually ground the base with a large PC heatsink.
I'm not familiar with slayer exciters, though I've seen them around. You need DC or at least pulsed DC. AC won't work since you want the particles to flow in one direction once they've been charged by the mesh. I don't know which one a slayer is. It also needs a fair amount of current for the charging of the smoke particles, though I think I've seen a Wimshurst being used so it may need less than I think. Grounding the base by running a wire to the INSIDE of a metal can or bucket would work better since it uses the Faraday ice pail effect, just like a Van de Graaff generator dome. That's how VDGs with two domes and no ground connection work.
The minimum that this design can work with is 21,000 volts. I measured it in this follow-up video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html Thanks for watching!
I've never done a test for how long it works. For this design you need around 21,000 volts. I recently did a follow-up video where I measured it ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html. I don't know how scalable it is. Keep in mind that it also produces ozone, which, in large quantities, is harmful to health.
It requires around 21,000 volts DC. I don't know how much current. I've been asked this so often that I made this follow-up video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html where I measure the voltage and demonstrate that it can be powered using a Wimshurst machine.
Is it possible to extract the positive terminal of an AA battery for the V+ of the aluminum foil and its negative terminal for the V- of the wire mesh? Asking for a research project thanks in advance
No, this requires around 21,000 volts, much more than the AA's 1.5 volts. Check out my follow-up video where I measure the voltage and show some options for powering it ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html.
I didn't measure the voltage but I suspect it was around 25kV. But having enough current is also important since that's what provides the charges to charge the particles. I don't know if powder coating equipment would work but I would guess it would since for powder coating it also has to supply charge, I think. I could be wrong.
I didn't measure the voltage. Based on my lifter voltage measurements I'd estimate in the 20kV range. The power supply is putting out DC, though since it's using a Cockcroft-Walton voltage multiplier after the flyback to produce the DC, I imagine there's plenty of ripple on top of the DC. That's typical of multipliers when there's leakage, and there's plenty of leakage here! A flyback puts out AC, so I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The ionized particles would just keep moving back and forth in the air stream, likely never getting to the cylinder. You can see the power supply details in my "How to Make 30kV High Voltage DC Power Supply..." video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GEuK1OdYxHk.html
2:15 : Dear friend, sorry for my English. Could you explain : if the mesh is grounded, how it is possible for smoke particles to get the negative charge while going through the mesh?
Good question. Positive and negative charges attract each other. The positive charge on the foil attacts negative charges from the ground, through the ground wire to the mesh. So the mesh becomes negatively charged.
Around 21,000 volts. See my follow-up video where I measure it and try out a few more power supplies ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html
Is it possible to make a BIGGER version of this? And are you able to wash off the grime from the aluminum so you can use it over and over again? I am very curious about this
+GUNVALKERIE It washes off easily with dish soap and hot water. I used aluminum foil which is pretty delicate but you could use a more solid aluminum instead. Keep in mind that this produces ozone as a bi-product, which is harmful in large doses. There is some voltage below which ozone isn't produced but I don't know what that voltage is; somewhere between 1kV and 10kV. It's the voltage that air ionizers that you can by in the store use but I don't know what it is. These electrostatic precipitators are used on a very large scale en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_precipitator.
Yup, that high voltage power supply is either hard to make or an off-the-shelf one would cost a lot. However, I did this follow-up video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Lz-HfDWjmRQ.html where I found that a much cheaper Wimshurst machine will also work.
I think a Wimshurst machine with disks at least 27cm in diameter is the easiest way. You can see me demonstrate with it in my follow-up video here ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html
+sarathchandra vss I don't know what you mean. Do you mean can you just plug into a household wall power socket as your power supply? If so, no. The voltage is only around 120V or 240V depending on where you live. Much too low a voltage.
The video and the device looks awesome and I am trying to make one right now for a school project. However based on some of the comments you made it seems this device could make ozone? I understand very little about electronics and science so could you please explain how this ozone gas could be made from the device? Also it seems I need over 10kv to make this device but ozone will be made when the voltage goes over 7kv. Any suggestions on how to tackle this problem?
Hyun Ki Lee I don't know the precise mechanism by which the ozone is produced, except that it happens as a side-effect of the ionization that happens between the mesh and the foil cylinder. I also don't know exactly what voltage you have to stay below in order to not produce ozone. I was told it's somewhere in the single digits kV or around there. One way you might be able to find out what the voltage is is to look into air ionizers that you can buy as commercial products that don't produce ozone. The closer the mesh is to the cylinder, the less voltage will be needed, however, it's probably a trade-off since if they're too close then more smoke will get though without being ionized, since more of the ionization will be happening only immediately between the cylinder and the mesh. Finding out the critical voltage and then controlling your voltage is the only solution I can think of.
Thanks for the feedback! So I thought about it and decided to make one for the car like a few people posted. But it seems finding the right power source is the key. Any suggestion you can give? I was thinking since cars are always moving would a small wind turbine cut the trick?
Hyun Ki Lee You need high voltage so I don't think a wind turbine will do it, but I'm no expert on wind turbines, but I doubt it. My high voltage power supply in the video takes low voltage DC as input. In fact I have two power supplies, one that plugs into the wall and output low voltage DC. Then that goes into the high voltage power supply which converts it to high voltage for the precipitator. You can see it more clearly here rimstar.org/equip/30kv_pwr_supply.htm. This is the way a lot of high voltage power supplies work. Your car battery puts out 12V and so you can plug a high voltage power supply into that. Cars usually even have a cigarette lighter in the dashboard powered by the battery which you can buy a plug for as automotive stores. You can get one of those plugs and wire it to your high voltage power supply's input. Though you probably want to mount the high voltage power supply under the car as near the precipitator as possible so that you don't have high voltage wires running everywhere.
I've been watching through the video where you made that big transformer/power-source but I am not sure if I want to try making one myself, especially since I've never played with electronics and circuits before. could you possibly send me a link or two where I can buy one of those in cheaper and smaller scale?
I take it it would attract dust the same way? Was looking into a ground plate for my negative ion generator to attract dust, but not to sure if this would work now, as i thought the negative dust particles would go to ground, but would the not want to go to positive, as negative is ground??
Is dust negatively charged? That doesn't sound right. If you're negative ion generator is producing negative ions then they're likely negative with respect to ground, so they would be attracted to ground. Ground is positive with respect to the negative ions. That's based on my guess that your negative ion generator is producing a high voltage negative with respect to ground.
I believe it is high voltage yes, and is a negative ioniser so I believe the dust would be negatively charged, so just to clarify a metal sheet attached to ground from house wiring in respect to living in the UK would work?
Theoretically it would work. There would be an attraction between the plate and the dust. Everything else in the surrounding room is also at ground potential so there should also be an attraction to everything else too. So to have a stronger attraction to the metal plate, you'd need to positively charge the plate to make it even more positive with respect to the dust. But I have no idea if the attraction would be strong enough to move the dust. I've also no experience with this sort of dust ionizing and collecting so there may be subtleties that I'm not aware of.
Thanks, was thinking maybe a positive from 12v might help, not to sure if it would be high enough voltage was just thinking it would be more attractive then the ground. From what I gather the particles only hold the charge for around 30 secs and within a short distance so I was thinking about placing the plate directly in front of the ioniser. Regards
I wanted much more info about the power supply. I wish to create a larger version for my HVAC system. I was considering a power supply from a neon sign.
Make sure the output of your neon sign based power supply is DC. This doesn't work with AC. Another thing to consider is that this precipitator design produces ozone, which is hazardous to your health in large quantities. The ozone is produced where the ionization is happening in the precipitator. In a follow-up video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html I measured the voltage required for this one to be around 21,000 volts. There's some voltage below 10,000 volts, I don't know what voltage, that doesn't produce ozone. If you could make a precipitator design that works below whatever that voltage is then you could have one that doesn't produce ozone.
i cant make power supply shown here. can u guide me how to charge the Al foil positively and the the mesh negatively please with the help of some easy method or any equipment that i can buy from the store
Check out my follow-up video here ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ARSQWTzWago.html where I show powering it using a Wimshurst machine. You can buy those on ebay.com. Just search for "wimshurst machine". Pretty much any one there will work. For example, www.ebay.com/itm/Wimshurst-Machine-Physics-Electrostatic-Generator-Model-Educational-Toy/233080929666
