Eley VIP Steel Pro Eco Wad 

I appreciate your experimental spirit. That being said, I've watched the previous 5 Steel Shot Test Videos and I feel that I must comment on this one. I worked in R&D, as an Engineer, at a major American ammunition company in the late 1970's, when steel shot loads were first being developed. The early loads released to the public were not sealed at the crimp. The American Waterfowl Hunter finds it difficult to keep his ammunition dry in the blind or duck boat. Moisture intrusion in the shot column may not be a problem, if the round is fired the same day. However, if a hunter stores the wet ammo for a period of time, the steel shot can rust into a monolithic "Lump" and BLOW UP the shotgun when fired. This HAS HAPPENED and is not just a theoretical possibility! Most American Waterfowl Ammo has some type of sealant applied to the crimp that wicks into the folds and seals the crimp against moisture. Zinc plated steel shot can help. Also, most primers have some type of sealant applied to prevent moisture intrusion in shotshells intended for Waterfowl. Moisture intrusion in the powder can cause a "Blooper" and result in a wad stuck in the barrel. If the stuck wad is not cleared before the next shot, this too can BLOW UP the shotgun! This also HAS HAPPENED! I don't know what would happen to steel shot ammo loaded with the Eco-Wad, if kept in storage for an extended period of time after moisture intrusion, but it does warrant testing. I don't make these comments to be Critical but in the interest of Safety! One must remember "Murph's Law of Engineering", "If it can go wrong, it will, at the worst possible time and cause the most irreversible damage!"

After watching,g the whole video Johnny here in the U.S. our technology in shot gun shell industry seems to lack in care in the environment sure we have steel shot for game birds ,but the hulls they over look we're still using plastic nothing that breaks down and disaster's in the ground.You have better technology and better quality in shell company's.Thanks for a wonderful video.

Informative video, very an issue for the ranges where tonnes of plastic wads are shot. In UK they do probably a lot of shot hunts for birds, but here the only few shots, does not count, only the ranges get high volume and they run on Steel only but still with plastic photodegadeble wad, which in stead of large plastic put micro plastic into the environment, (I never understand that). So that cartridges are quit an eco friendly option, if they work a bit better or less its only a clay, and for the hunt something like the Ulitmate Tungsten etc. is used (wad nor price matter for the only few shots). Papercase cartridges I vacuum packed and I just open before use. The steel loads came a long way from the late 80ties ( nasty high pressure, bad wads with no barrel protection, tungsten was not different, the first load I used scratched the chockes), to nowadays quite good loads. It was not mentioned if the rounds are for standard pressure or high pressure or was it all 3“ loads?

I worked in a molding shop for 20 yrs. We had one part that was meant to dissolve after it was used for an installation drying process. The plastic type material I was told was made with an animal fat that dissolved within hours of getting wet.

Very good with Ellie and gamebore it's important to remember what this is the future they're only going to get better its like switching from plastic to fibre I got used to it I think it's all about trying something different

great test well down to you two

It has to be said, the information out there on the changes in cartridges is baffling! I don't consider myself to be stupid by any means (I can confirm I am reasonably bright and have common sense) However the efforts that TGS and Nick have gone to for a smooth transition to steel and away from plastic (as we know it) is fantastic!!. I love BASC but I wish they and the other associations concerned with the move to steel would put out more information like this.

I wonder what the effect of a sticky wad will be in the barrel? Followed by succesive sticky wads through the days shooting?

Thanks, another thought provoking video. Currently, are you aware if there is any access to these wads to home loaders like myself here in the U.K? Thanks again. Stuart

I would expect krap patterns out of the 32g @ 1550 load with a 1/4 choke @ 55yds, 36g isn't a lot better with a 7/10 choke. The 36g or 1-1/4 start krapping at 40. Been shooting 3" 1-1/4oz@ 1425 for the last 6 yrs, kills geese fairly well, Fabarm Classis. Been using 7/10 and 5/10 chokes in one. A pair of 5/10 in the other. My 20ga Iside and a CZ Ringneck uses mod and improved mod with 3" 1oz loads @ 1350, fine to 30yds with that on geese, 35 or so on ducks.

Used them yesterday , great kills , kick like hell

I'll try to get my hands on those. Either those or BioAmmo. If only either of which would come in 76 chamber length.

Johnny Pva can be many chemicals eg polyvinyl acetate, used in drugs, glue and plastics manufacture, I would not be doing that Pepsi challenge if I was you! Nick is older and wiser!! On the Eley I’ve found their lead and still to be quite variable quality wise in recent years, both in shot size , consistency and uniformity and ive often had patchy pattern plate results and shot stuck together

Does the wad dissolve in salt water as pva takes considerably longer to break down in saline?

I have a feeling these wads are made of pva. used pva nuggets in sishing for years

Practical experimentation is really important, so kudos for having a go. But it also needs to be thorough, and watchable. This was rather heavy going. More scripting and more montage might have sped things up a bit. Meanwhile some proper control samples would have added substance to your findings. If the aim is to consider the viability of steel + fibre/bio wads vs. what people are using now, I think it is only fair to use leading lead + fibre, lead + plastic, and steel + plastic loads for comparison. It's also important to use them all out of one gun with the same choke fitted, preferably a popular O/U or pump to take the gas system out of the equation. Also, if the wad contains no plastic, then there's no need to dwell on how fast/well it disentegrates, especially when what really matters is downrange effectiveness (pattern/penetration) and hardness (or otherwise) of recoil. I realise this would result in a video that cost more time and money to produce, but I think you're spoiling the ship for a ha-porth of tar here. Additionally, the systematic minimising of the cost difference suggests a degree of bias that detracts from the objectivity that should accompany any experiment. Non-plastic is worth doing -if only to aboid littering- and non-lead may be -though I don't find the evidence for actual harm conclusive-, but this should not come at the cost of having effective, affordable ammunition available.

best pattern steel load for 12ga is #3 shot 1.25oz at 1350fps 20ga 1oz #4 shot at 1350 mod choke

"Extra Greeness", whats wrong with the old paper cased fibre wadded ammo that Eley have been making since Victorian times ? As for the cartridges being made in Spain for a dry environment, pull the other one, its got bells on it. The tons of gun powder used in Eley Birmingham is just as susceptible to dampness and there has never been an issue with damp powder as far as i can remember. Its cheaper to make them in Spain, why not just say so. Hope they are better than Eleys black cased cartridges with the chinese writing on the box, pure muck they were.

£400 per thousand , i shoot Gamebore White Gold Pro steel at £160 per thousand that's not a couple of pounds difference is it!

We are going over to these all over the country in a few years so this is for us Danes quite interesting, however a few that has shot them through a chronograph has found them to not quite be satisfactory in the speed department so there is some development left to do yet.

I’m not sure how popular reloading is in the UK, but in the US it’s big business. Can we expect to see reloading components for sale soon? A bio wad that works is needed.

Guys what happened to "Bioammo" from IWA you need to get your hands on some and do some testing/comparing.

unfortunately completely impossible to get these or the gamebore ones on the continent. tried everything! We only do a little bit of Duck hunting here on the estate but after just 10-15 years of plastic wads they do seem to add up pretty drasticly and unfortunately our german manufacturers cant provide any sort of steel cartridge without a plastic wad but cant even get hold of just one single box over here. real shame hope it will change soon

£360 a thousand compared to £240 is not a couple of quid!

Johnny don't drink the water I'll buy you a tea.

Over £400 a thousand? That double what I pay for pigeon bashing and £100 than I pay for game cartridges.

Interesting video , do you promise that there is no micro plastics used in this wad?

Hmmmmmm. Interesting

I found these shells at my school should I be concerned

Big kick is bad! - plastic wad is much kinder on the inner gun barrel and takes much less crud cleaning when using lead with fibre wads - including less lead on all our cleaning cloths/ cleaning wads and so potentially fingers! etc.😀

Would these eley number 3s bring down geese?

Worst cartridge I’ve ever shot. Filthy,unburnt powder is a big problem. And them not firing. Moved onto cheddite and gamebore

in australia it wont stop the anti hunters trying to stop shooting, they just want it stopped full stop. and steel kills as good as any lead ive used. and ive shot for over 40 years, cost in our country is shocking, and when we hunt ducks we can be in water up to our arm pits, and waist deep for an hour or more. so these may not be right for us, ive not had any plastic style shell not work and they always get wet. we are rough on them down here. i was anti lead but had to buy another gun to adapt, but choke it right ad pick the right shell and i kill ducks dead as far as any lead has.

What a total bore the old chap is