So tired of these tired GCN criticisms. It’s an ENTERTAINMENT channel first and foremost. Criticizing GCN for their product reviews is like criticizing Top Gear for not seriously reviewing reasonably priced cars: it misses the entire point of what the show is about. GCN does a couple of things extremely well: they provide tons of content; they introduce many people to the world of cycling; they create entertaining content with eye-candy products; and, up until recently, they provided tons of racing content for avid cycling fans that was otherwise difficult to find.
No one has said GCN is not entertaining. I’ve simply expressed that PT is the place to be if one is looking for accurate and factual analysis of products. It is factual to state that GCN does not hold a candle to PT in the regard. @@danielakerman8241
Thanks for the shoutout dude, but honestly fantastic review! I've said it before, but I always learn something new from your videos. Good to see elitewheels listening to your feedback aswell. I genuinely think they are trying to make the best set of wheels they can, hopefully with the updated hub and the additional QC on the wheel lacing they should be nice and solid. Anyway, can't wait for the wheel showdown video you mentioned, and those rides in Cumbria look epic. Keep up the good work!!!
I think these guys just bought an engineering audit from you for $1000 mate. Thats not a BTM strategy, thats a business strategy. Great review as always, thank you!
I believe the discount code and kickback is fine since you disclosed it. You did at least as much work for Elite Wheels as you did for your viewers. Your feedback is going to be more helpful than the average rider's given you have the expertise to diagnose issues. So long as your transparent about any financial arrangement then the one you have here is probably a pretty good way to handle this.
Very informative and brutally frank assessment. That's what we respect. Likewise, a refreshingly quick response by elite to some of your concerns. Thanks.
The fact that they aren't 'super stiff' like the hypers make them more appealing to me as a sub 60kg rider. Apparently they also do well in cross wind stability as per Hambini. I contacted Elite to ask how the cross wind stability of the BWT wheels compared to the Drive 40 wheels and they said they didn't have test data for that. While they claim the undulating design is for improved cross wind stability they don't have test data to confirm it or to compare between their own designs, rather they seem to be mimicking the designs of others. I appreciate that transparency but it would be nice to have stuff that has test data. As far as their GTM strategy while they seem to have issues, they seem to address them quickly, I think with some of the larger companies they make their design and unless its a safety issue, they say "oh we'll address that in version 2.0, which we will release it 3 years time". Look at Roval as an example. This responsiveness is good as long as you aren't an early adopter, If they can fix all these issues by 2023 it seems like they will be great wheels.
Not sure what you mean by your first sentence. The lack of lateral stiffness is due to a lack of preload in the hub. You can be sure that the wheels are quite stiff vertically.
Note that hambini compared the stability of a 40mm deep wheel to wheels that were 50mm-65mm, which would make sense that it is more stable as this characteristic is mostly dependant on how deep the wheels are. The results he showed looked fairly similar to a different wheel hambini tested at 35mm, so it would be better if he were to compare the stability to wheels of equal depth.
Thanks for posting this video. It's great you had the freedom to be thoroughly honest and did not have to stick to the companies marketing notes in your review. I think it is also great that the company is listening and making changes. The whole bike industry could take some lessons from companies like this and not just worry about their investors. Even though I just bought a set of Campagnolo Shamal Carbon wheels about 3 months ago I am thinking about getting a set of these wheels but will hold off to see if they install those caps over the spokes on the hubs and I too would like to see a good steel bearing in those hubs, not totally every detail should be about saving weight. Thanks again PT.
Basically after a few hundred miles the wheels became defective if not unsafe to ride. Two cracked front spokes which is insanely dangerous since their design has no redundancies built in. The front center lock had too much play and even when properly torqued to 40nm the rotor would move thus the bike would shudder. The back wheel had a wobble and a LBS found that some of the bearings had premature wear due to a lack of grease. Also the back wheel started to develop a crack at the nipple. I contacted EliteWheels but with no help so I started a PayPal dispute and after two weeks of sending my info to them, PayPal partially sided with EliteWheels in that the wheels would need to be sent back for a refund. Fine, but the one problem is that I don’t have a wheel box anymore and EliteWheels is requiring that the shipment should be fully insured back to China and they even wrote this type of shipment costs around $750 USD. This just seems insane to me and a way for me to not send back the wheels period. When the wheels worked they were awesome but like many people fear about direct to Chinese carbon manufacture is that the after the sale support is greatly lacking. At this point I strongly would suggest not buying from EliteWheels. I will stick with my Winspace and will try some of the other brands out there before ever returning.
Interesting I have3 of the cheap wheel sets going back three years. Great response time and great customer service. No issues on any wheel set as yet. I use two sets on gravel bikes with 40c tires. Everything you have said is completely contradictory to what I have experienced.
Undoubtedly technically loaded review yet very layman orientated presentation. Promising wheels but shame about the flaws about the hub, spoken tensions and lck of credible R&D test by Elite. Personal to me as a home wheel builder, spoke tension is one key area which can determine a bad wheel from a good one or even a great build. Spoke twisting and inconsistent tension is a symptom of QC quality. Hope they sorted it out as promised since I was a click away from buying the 40D.
Interesting. Learned a lot from this review and some things to look out for when wheel shopping. At 100kg+ for rider plus bike these aren’t for me but a useful presentation.
I've been looking at these wheels for a bit now because I just LOVE how they look, but what I can't get past is the fact that they don't offer a version with steel spokes and that gorgeous rim. I've read that carbon spokes can be dangerous is something unforeseen were to happen. I'm willing to pay for a good set of wheels, but the looks of these keep bringing me back to their site. I'll probably just end up buying the Scribe 42's for my Roubaix and wonder what might have been... Thank you for your insight and diligent testing!
Very good review on this wheelset. The spoke tension QC inspection at factories tensioning/truing process is good, but not a true solution. If I know how the Chinese implement quality into thier processes, they usually increase the inspection rates by a secondary person. There are two things that aren't ideal with this approach. This doesn't address the root cause of why the spoke tension failures are being produced in the first place. Second, a manual inspection process is, at best, 70% effective. Which means there are possibly 30% wheels that have the potential of being shipped out of spec. A better approach is to build in the QC check directly into the head that's tightening the spokes, or pre-stress the wheel to allow the spoke to finish seating to the hub, then recheck the spoke tension in the machine before releasing it out of tightening machine. This may be technology that China doesn't have the IP for or hasn't yet taken from another manufacturer.
Your integrity is why I trust you--nice authentic review! Makes my life so much easier to have someone competent I trust doing all the hard work 👍 With most others, I have to do so much due diligence that the review is basically worthless.
Cheers mate. I put a LOT of my time and money into making this review! It may not be everything they wanted to hear but they got a cheap engineering audit out of it 😜
The cycling industry needs more real world mechanical engineers and not just your run of the mill magazine reporters who don't know anything backed by facts.
Regarding slotted spoke flanges, Mavic had a trail bike wheelset back in the day (Crossmax XL?) with slotted spoke flanges. During hard cornering or landing a bit sideways from a jump, the rim would flex enough to detension a spoke and have it come out of its slot. They later came out with plastic caps to keep that from happening.
Excellent review. I have the older model elite wheels 60mm deep that Trace Velo reviewed a year or two back and just cycled from Dublin to Italy on them. 1335km on this trip (12 days) and 10000km total since I got them. Much prefer them to my zipp 303s which although lighter just aren’t as fast as the 26mm on the elites.
It amazes me why big review outlets like GCN, Cycling Weekly can get away with sub standard reviews on products, talking about feel and all that shite. Keep up the amazing work my man, it is vital for the people #speakthetruth
From 19:30 what you say is gold! I became instant subscriber! Thank you for this.We got the wheels to test from Local Dealer. And we usually watch reviews whatother people are saying about the wheels and then we put out our opinion on it. I laughed at multiple youtubers that pretty much said that this wheels are the best wheels on the market :D Your review is really in depth and what you say is all true with the only exception is the rim stifness I think the rims are not as stiff as some wheels that don't have holes for nipples. Like Fulcrum Winds or some high end wheels like PCW, ZIPPS or ENVEs... Anyways just wanted to give you props keep up doing the great work!
Awesome review. This review of yours is one that I trust 100%. The other reviews on these wheels that I've watched, about a dozen or more, have a bit of hidden bias that comes through in the reviewer's choice of words that seem to be used to skirt the whole complete truth. Honesty permeates this review. Thank you!
Thanks very much for making these videos- they're a really great resource. This comment is a while after upload but I'm hoping you can give some clarity. In this video you praise the comfort benefits of having spokes that aren't too stiff- that carbon spokes can beat you up on rougher roads. In the past I've seen people like Jobst Brand or Mike burrows dismiss that wheels play a part in rider comfort completely, particularly in reference to shallow section rims or thinner (or fabric) spokes. The thinking is that the vertical deflection of a wheel under impact (usually claimed to be under 0.5mm) is so minor that it is unnoticeable, especially when, in the same system as tyres, seats etc. This makes sense to me, but so does my own felt experience of a particularly forgiving ride from my very shallow dt swiss xr331s laced with very thin revo's vs deeper and beefier wheelsets. What am I missing here? Is there some kind of other vibrational element being changed here? How does this interact with previous assertions about too-minimal-to-matter deflections like your FEA of dropped seat stays?
As someone that appreciates something (pick a thing, anything really) thats been well engineered and manufactured but dosn't have the technical background to evaluate it first hand I really dig a review with this approach. Keep it up!
Thanks for this excellent review. I knew nothing about carbon spokes. Very much appreciate the mini- course. Any fan of Ricky Gervais is a friend of mine. Cheers
One thing about doing business with China (I'm based in Asia)..... you need to have a trustable person who will personally inspect each item before it gets shipped. Normally at the beginning, they will send you a product with exceptional quality, but once you buying in bulk, they will send out 90% inferior products. Not saying your review is wrong, but the fact that they have a specific person that handles your request, means that you are one of their "target" ie. items they send you will be of good quality; complaints get resolved efficiently etc.
Perhaps the best way to test this, is set up an anonymous account (with < 10 followers) then buy exactly the same wheels and test it out, and in the process reach out to their customer support and see if they deal with your queries as efficiently as before.
Thanks for the detailed video, which helped me a lot while doing research on these wheels. I appreciate it! I just subscribed to your channel. Keep up the great work!
Ordered the cheaper steel spoke wheelset (MARVEL) from them, arrived about a week ago (had to wait for QR endcaps because originally they were left out of the package, but they sent it within a week free of charge). They included the shim for the lockring for me, thanks PT :D Though I would have preferred the shimano type lockrings, because of the width of my BB tool and the large diameter of the disc, the tool interferes with the disc, so I can only use the tool at a slight angle which leads to the degradation of the lockring over time.
Excellent review. I think I'll be going for the ICAN Aero 40s as they are using Sapim CX Ray spokes and the hub spoke interface isn't open on one side like these.
I would like to see reviews like this for known brands. I don´t mean you need to do something similar with known brands but the "youtube reviewers" should do reviews in these terms. Any wheel is enough for recreational cycling even for racing but I think you know what I mean. Most of the brands have a lot of marketing for selling their wheels as the best, latest technology, QC and so on!
Beautiful wheels, but the customer service is the worst. Found a little impact damage on the edge of the front wheel (DRIVE 50V) and informed them the day after I received the package. They insinuated I caused the damage on the first ride - when I didn't even have time to set them up at all. They offered me nothing and haven't been reacting to mails since then. An absolute disgrace.
@peak torque - would love a 2022 video on another diy carbon wheel build and what brands etc you’d suggest and/or is diy even worth it given wheelsets like this are out there? I really like the idea of having higher end components
Great review, I bought elitewheels edge 45, and the lightweath hub isn't strong enough to handle my weight and power. The ratchet system just exploded on a hill as I stand on the pedals. I think they take a lot of the weight out of the wheels on the hubs, and this is not where you want it to be light. (as rotational weight is better to be light on the higher radius...). So, jsut to tell you, the ratchet sytem on elitewheels isn't strong enough.
Thanks very useful review. It's fair to say then that winspace at this stage has a more mature product although the idea of sheeding 100g is still intriguing if Elite manages to sort things out. Wrt spoke tension I've recently seen other youtubers' videos with winspace having spokes essentially twisting. I am a complete noob on the matter, but is is this something to be expected from carbon spokes in general or is it a problem specific to the wheelset? Thanks
@@PeakTorque cool thanks. Another consideration that came to mind, would you recommend choosing the 6bolt version over centerlock? I'm thinking also in terms of weight, simplicity and disc choice other than standard discs.
I know you probably hope for an answer from PT, but I believe I have something to say too. :) I've been using DRIVE (45mm), HYPER (50mm), and Ventoux S (45mm) wheels for a few months now. Here is my take on the first two: DRIVE are super responsive and ideal for climbing or attacking. Their crosswind stability is better than HYPERs (but I am honestly not sure if this is because of the 5mm rim depth difference). I like their rim width that better suits 28mm tires. On the other hand, they don't feel as fast on flats as HYPERs. I also like HYPERs more. If Elitewheels manages to fix the issues as stated by PT, I think the DRIVE will quickly become pretty popular. PS: I am a pretty lightweight rider (about 67 kg), so I don't perceive any stiffness difference.
@@cyclistshub That's a very spot on answer mate! Thanks for the honest review. Been wanting to purchase the Hyper 50's but the weight of the Drive and the inner width is better for what I want.
I'm seriously thinking be cautious. Dave a little more and consider a custom build with Sapim spokes. You might come surprisingly close to the weight of this wheelset.
I’m really glad to see accredited people like you, Hambini and a few others are starting to notice these more affordable wheels and putting some time in to review them to make sure they perform as promised.
A 21 spoke front wheel is a dealbreaker for me. Where do you get 21 hole replacement rims? Personally I’d rather have a few more spokes on a wheel set that id ride daily - a good 24/28 is going to be heavier and less aerodynamic but still plenty light/fast. I’m also not a fan of straight pull spokes - J bend have stood the test of time for a reason.
Just received my Elite wheels. Ordered with silver decals and had to be dished for Cannondale. Received with black decals and rear wheel not dished. Can I trust the wheels when so basic order details( discussed several times in writing when ordering ) were missed. Not a good start Elite.
Thanks for taking the time to make this detailed review! One small detail though: I do wonder if the statement you made at 10m into the video is correct? Won't the spoked that detension contribute an equal amount to the moment applied to the rim under breaking as the ones that increase in tension (assuming they never fully detension)? So 14/21 spokes contribute to the rotation stiffness rather than 7/21.
Wow, déjà vu for the Roval wheels I had on my mountain bike with brake resonance. With those wheels it was 16 two cross brake rotor side and 8 radial other side. Just went away when I swapped to a more normal 32 spoke wheel.
Once VAT and import fees are added they are no longer ‘Cheap’. I also do worry about support post purchase with brands like these. I just don’t see these as a huge value and would rather get something domestically.
You mentioned ERP, MRP, FMEA... I gather your background is manufacturing? Anyway, from what I've seen in yours and other reviews, it seems that they have fairly "fresh" manufacturing processes that they are experimenting on, but not necessarily in an organized fashion. Their quality strategy could use DMAIC methodology... but I am sure they will get there. In any case, I am tempted to try their wheels.
Great review. Do you have any real world testing showing the difference in power transfer/speed for a similar weighted wheel with varying lateral stiffness. Assuming all other factors are the same (weight, tyres, wind etc) it would be interesting to see how much faster say a 50N/mm wheel is to a 30N/mm wheelset.
I bought a set of Drive 50V wheels in April 2022 and have ridden 1, 485km. The spokes on the rear are splitting. There has been no impact or potholes etc only ride on good quality bitumen roads. Elite have not been very responsive in resolving this issue. They claim 3 year warranty and crash replacement but this is not a smooth process. Most alarmingly they are not interested in investigating the cause of the failure which has to be a manufacturing fault. The wheels look great but based on 2 professional opinions from LBS in Australia this is a safety issue.
Elite Wheels have since reconsidered their position and have agreed to inspect the wheelset to ascertain the cause for the splitting spokes. They have agreed in the meantime to replace my wheelset. This is a satisfactory outcome.
i think elite offers mtb style lock rings after me. when i receive elite wheels, Shimano lock rings not fit. i went 4 bicycle shops local. but i couldn"t buy it. so i can buy online. i bought elite pe50 disk wheels last year. i think they change name of wheel. it's same specs 21, 28 outernal, carbon spokes. 1302g weight. after few ride there's problem on hub locking nut. there's need 0.9mm inner hexagon for solve a problem. it"s not fit 1mm hexagon. i don"t have and i can"t find in online. so i talk with elite. they send me new lockring nut with inner cutted mtb style locking. it can use 2mm hexagon. but normal mtb style lockring not fitted, elite mtb lockring is slightly cut inside the lockring for 2mm new parts. i watched ur video. the Elite completely changed hub design. It looks a lot better than old hub version. hub looks no more require locking nut anymore. it doesn't need 0.9 or 2mm hexagon tool. it looks like new hub spindle holding by 2 endcaps. I really like elite lightweight rims ,carbon spoke still strong. and ceramic bearing rolling very well. it's lighter than any other expensive disk wheelset. elite wheel shows me many pr on strava. i agree with your opinion. Elite make sure everyone's get finished product. I think The elite wheels still improving.
I would love to see a review of farsports wheels. In my mind, they are bigger and more popular in China. There is also vortext wheels, which are almost as expensive as zipp.
I'm not sure why engineers always get this wong, but the only change in spokes tension for bearing rider and bike is experienced on the bottom spokes (i.e. loss of tension), not by the top spokes increasing in tension ("hanging" in your video @10:55). You can test this using your wheel jig and tensiometer, or by plucking spokes and listening for tone changes, or by FEA. There is a slight net increase in tension all around except the bottom, but this is second order effect of the rim flattening. The spoked wheel is pretensioned structure.
As the rim and rim and spokes make a statically indeterminate structure, and everything depends on seried stiffness, i can't make that statement IMO. The spokes do not equally share the load under rider weight static loading. Here is a parametric FEA example. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-QXJd3ovqPhs.html
Your comment regarding a stiff bike and wheels meaning that the tires have to provide all the suspension hit what I'd been feeling for a while. Especially with new gravel bikes. They think we only ride rail trails. Who makes a gravel wheelset that isn't too stiff? I'm assuming shallower rim is better and 21mm wide internal may be better than 24mm?
Great review! I bought the wheels and made sure they included the shim washers as well as the updated hub. I had a question. How many teeth does the ratchet have (this info doesn't appear on the website)? Is it always the case that it's better to have more teeth on the ratchet?
Best video for drives ! Love that part he says its beta ?! Now i see the hub changes ( i hope to improve it ) . SO it is better to buy them now? What do you think?
"A stick, or a dog" 😄 Good review though Carbon spokes sound and look impressive but as you mention will make the wheel super uncomfortable. Ill stick to my box section aluminium rims with steel spokes for the terrible UK roads I think. Can imagine a set of these would be great on the continent though.
I just picked up a set of these and love them . Only issue is a personal one as the freewheel is too loud for my liking. Is it possible to swap it to a quieter one, or is it a elitewheels specific freehub. Thanks for a great review
I have bought 4 sets of different elite wheels out of my pocket , never once have i gotten a free set and i have been basiclally testing there wheels for years .. I have had problems here and there but sure would be nice if they took care of real year after years users of there wheels ...
Hi. Another really interesting video. Can I just ask how do you achieve correct calibration of your Park TM 1 spoke tension meter and secondly what is the make of the pink handle bar bag? Thanks
Can we get a comparison of the Winspace Hypers vs the Elite Drives? Leaning toward Winspace after this, but they are a couple hundred dollars more with discount codes.
I really like the look of the Elite rim brake tracks being better for stopping power however, the Hypers have a better tapered rim profile for increased aerodynamics/speed once spinning. You can bet Winspace will be on a Hyper V2 mission now… 👀
Spokes at the top doing the work? And radial spokes not holding any torque? I'm not sure this is the correct way of looking at it. Have you read the wheel building book by jobst Brandt? He talks about this a fair bit in there.
9:41 the spoke compliance comparison (stretch as you say in plain English for people). why is the carbon spoke stiffer? does it have a lot more material/cross section than the steel spoke? (edit: excellent review)
Hello and thank you for your work! Did you get a new version of the front hub in your version? any issues with the front hub? (Some users reported with old version)
Weirdly, their gravel hubs seem to be a DT240 SP replica, with enclosed holes. I guess the enclosed hole design was too expensive or heavy with large flanges? Also, would it be possible to adjust the preload by adding thin shims to the axles?
hi! have you noticed a gap between the rear non drive side end cap and the hub axle? my rear wheel some times has play and it looks like the gap causes it. i need to tighten the rear axle tight to remove the play.
Bravo. Very informative and people like you will contribute to a better industry as you are objective and scientific. Please don’t go and work for GCN :)))
I am planning to buy their wheelsets later this year. How do i know if the wheels im getting is the revised versions from this review? Their ultralight wheels 50mm disc version at 1.3kg a pair is very tempting lol.
