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Eliza Brandon, Colonel Brandon, & Gothic Fiction-Jane Austen’s novels-SENSE AND SENSIBILITY analysis

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Jane Austen SENSE AND SENSIBILITY analysis | GOTHIC FICTION | Why does Jane Austen include the Gothic narrative of Eliza Brandon (told by Colonel Brandon) in the novel Sense & Sensibility? I analyse Sense and Sensibility, comparing it to Northanger Abbey, through the lens of Gothic Fiction, in order to understand Jane Austen’s purpose as a novelist.
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22 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 356

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Can you think of any other seemingly irrelevant details that you think actually expose something fundamental about Jane Austen’s art?

@63Speed63 3 года назад

I’m in the process of reading the wonderful 37-page Introduction to OWC’s Sense and Sensibility before attempting a reread. I now feel that my first reading of S&S was very poor. About “irrelevant details,” your question and this S&S Introduction I’m reading bring up so many points and one of them reminded me of something in Pamela. Particularly, Pamela’s very easy, willing and loving acceptance of Mr. B’s illegitimate daughter (almost a tack-on in the book, perhaps on purpose), when to a woman bearing a child out of wedlock would’ve spelled immediate and everlasting doom to her. The inequalities facing women in Austen’s time were legion and are carried throughout her novels in myriad ways, making them fundamental to her art. These inequalities were no rarity, and were covered well by Austen, Richardson, the Brontës and others, especially Wollstonecraft, but they sure are awful when laid out sarcastically and ironically in Austen’s way, and especially in this work, where, for one example, we bear witness to inadequately educated mothers (from a social construct) being expected to adequately educate their daughters while we pass judgment on their success and men are made exempt.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Beautifully articulated John. And we also see, through Fanny Dashwood's behaviour towards "poor little Harry" (ch.2), not only mothers poorly educating their daughters, but teaching their sons to perpetuate patriarchal inequality.

@dorteweber3682 3 года назад

My favourite line of Austen is the opening sentence of Persuasion: Sir Walter Elliot of Kellynch Hall was a man who for his own pleasure never took up any book but the Baronetage. That scathing characterization is so brief, so cutting, so elegantly turned it makes me smile every time, and I have read that book every year for the past thirty years. I think her value as a satirist is often underestimated. I think her contemporaries might have feared her tongue, or her pen.

@simoneg.707 3 года назад

I have to think about the conversation of Emma and Harriet about old spinsters. Harriet ist clearly shocked that Emma doesn't want to marry, because being an old spinster would be so awful. How Emma explains to Harriet, that she won't be a poor old spinster and therefore won't be shamed by society. In another scene Miss Bates and Jane Fairfax are invited to the Coles only after dinner, because they are the less important guests even if they are much better friends to them than Emma. It really shows how your worth as a woman depended ultimately only on men. Even if you are independent and rich, that money came from a father or husband, who provided for you.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Persuasion's opening is wonderful. In part because confronts readers immediately with a _bad_ reader, and so challenges readers to think about what a good reader is - something that comes up later in the novel in the conversations between Anne and Benwick

@mellieemerton3080 3 года назад

As I was listening to you, I wondered if Austen was also trying to demonstrate that Brandon is as capable of drama as Marrianne, thus highlighting that they are compatible as a couple

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Absolutely! Austen here is laying the groundwork for Marianne's and Brandon's union.

@fiddlerontheporch 3 года назад

I was thinking the exact same thing!

@powerful7661 3 года назад

I wish I could give you more than one up vote!

@alessandrammms 3 года назад

Bit late to the party, but I totally thought the same while watching. Colonel Brandon's and his Byronic hero vibe is totally Marianne's type.

@HRJohn1944 3 года назад

@@DrOctaviaCox Isn't the groundwork lain (at least for the reader) in Chapter 7:when the Dashwoods were, invited by Sir John and Lady Middleton to Barton Park: "Marianne, "was discovered to be musical (and) was invited to play. "Marianne's performance was highly applauded. Sir John was loud in his admiration of every song, and as loud in his conversation while every song lasted. Lady Middleton .... wondered how any one's attention could be diverted from music...and asked Marianne to sing a particular song which Marianne had just finished. Colonel Brandon alone...paid her only the compliment of attention; and she felt a respect for him. His pleasure in music ..(though less than).. exstatic delight, was estimable..."

@debshaw680 3 года назад

Austin wrote it that way because she had a premonition that one day Colonel Brandon would be played by Alan Rickman who would make women weep and memorize the books and movie. 😆 I can’t imagine anyone more perfect to be Brandon.

@MandieTerrier 3 года назад

I think that you nailed it

@paulaschroen3954 3 года назад

Agree. Alan Rickman reading a poem to the character Marianne is so excellent.

@keitharrowsmith3682 3 года назад

Whilst I rate Alan Rickman highly I thought Brandon wimp and understood why Marianne was not attracted. But then us blokes…….

@debshaw680 3 года назад

@@keitharrowsmith3682 He was a war hero much admired by other men. He was a man of business. He was a gentleman. How is that wimpy? She wasn’t interested for two reasons. He’s much older and she feels like he’s being pushed on her. The third reason: she was foolish.

@annakirshenbaum1458 3 года назад

Alan Rickman was too old for this role. Brandon is 35 years old in the book. Alan was almost fifty. To me he's not Brandon at all.

@hippiedachshunds1632 3 года назад

As a young single mother living the 1980s version of Eliza Brandon's story, I wept over her fate more times than I can count. I felt had I shared her era, I might have shared her fate. Had she shared my era, perhaps she would have shared my much happier circumstances. For this reason, I personally see her as the single most tragic figure in all of Austen.

@christiannechase3353 3 года назад

Is there not almost a Gothic quality in Darcy's description of Wickham's diabolical plan to marry the 15 year-old Georgianna firstly for her money, secondarily for revenge against himself? "She was persuaded to believe herself in love....had he succeeded, his revenge would have been complete."

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

The word "revenge" does suggest a kind of Gothic sense of the dastardly.

@septemberastor 3 года назад

I wish Jane Austen lived for another 40 years- and written another dozen novels. The (my) world is a better place because of her.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Mine too! Octavia

@bookmouse2719 3 года назад

I wish she had finished The Watsons and Sanditon as well.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Me too Book Mouse! Octavia

@gkelly941 3 года назад

Eliza Brandon also is a vehicle to explain a number of details in S&S in one neat package. She provides an explanation for why Col. Brandon had never married at age 35. In addition, it also allows the readers to see that for all his physical attractiveness and gallantry, Willoughby is at heart a scoundrel who would seduce a young girl and then abandon her in dire circumstances, while the less exciting Col. Brandon does the responsible and humane thing for a vulnerable young woman who is, after all, his second cousin.

@abigailthompson4456 Год назад

First cousin, one removed. Presuming Eliza and Col. Brandon are first cousins...

@hollybrooke322 3 года назад

I think the story of Eliza Brandon is a major necessity to the plot and progression of Sense and Sensibility. It shows that Colonel Brandon is just as passionate and deeply feeling as Marianne and shows just how compatible they are, more so than with Willoughby. It’s the gothic overdramatic storyline that proves how deep and passionate Colonel Brandon really is.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

I agree Holly. This passage (and others dotted throughout the novel) sow the seeds for the union between Brandon and Marianne. Marianne may still view him through the lens of a flannel-waistcoat-wearer ("“But he talked of flannel waistcoats,” said Marianne; “and with me a flannel waistcoat is invariably connected with aches, cramps, rheumatisms, and every species of ailment that can afflict the old and the feeble.”" (ch.8)), but readers are being primed to see that Brandon understands Marianne's perspective and sensibilities.

@MsJubjubbird 2 года назад

That and her being the mother of his ward makes Willoughby's crimes more of an insult.

@rubberparrot1 3 года назад

The idea that death is a suitable repentance in gothic novels When mr Collins suggest the death of Lydia would have been preferable than the ignominy of her elopement is another place Austen explores that idea

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Great observation, Shanna. Absolutely. Mr Collins writes to Mr Bennet, "The death of your daughter would have been a blessing in comparison of this" (ch.48). Death was apparently preferable to 'disgrace'. The word "blessing" has interesting religious connotations. And remember that Mr Collins is a clergyman and supposed to be representative therefore of 'moral' values - something that is challenged in the novel - Mr Bennet, for example, remarks later in the novel, when Mr Collins is again referring to Lydia, " _That_ is his notion of Christian forgiveness!" (ch.57).

@hattyburrow716 3 года назад

But Collins is an idiot, formed and written

@rainingyarrow540 3 года назад

@@DrOctaviaCox I very much like Mr. Bennet's reply!

@ophilliaophillia5918 2 года назад

Mr Collins is not an idiot- his view represents the era

@rubberparrot1 2 года назад

@@ophilliaophillia5918 I’m quite sure I didn’t say that, but Austen gives the idea to be most vehemently expressed by the character that is avatar of what is idiotic in polite society. I can’t help but think that she is scornful of the idea at a minimum

@an8588 3 года назад

Colonel Brandon’s purpose when he tells this story is to expose Willoughby’s character. It’s definitely worth mentioning that one of the reasons why Marianne falls for Willoughby is that he resembles the conventional Romantic/Gothic hero, and although Eliza Brandon’s daughter does not ‘suffer from her sins’ in exactly the conventional moralistic manner of the time and we can safely assume that Brandon will take care of her, she will most likely live her life as a social outcast and never marry, while Willoughby will not suffer any consequences, so perhaps Jane Austen is saying something about the gender politics of the time because only the woman will truly suffer from the relationship. Thank you for making this video. We really love your channel! I’m 12 (writing on my mother’s account with her permission) and have read all of Jane Austen’s completed works and much of the Juvenilia and unfinished novels. I’d be interested to know what you think about Sanditon in a future video. It’s a truly delightful work and it could have been Jane Austen’s masterpiece had she finished it.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Oh I completely agree with you - I think she's absolutely making a point about the gender politics, and how women unfairly took the brunt of the censure. We might think, for instance, of the comment made by the narrative voice, regarding the fallout from Mrs Rushworth's and Henry Crawford's affair, in the final chapter of _Mansfield Park_ : "That punishment, the public punishment of disgrace, should in a just measure attend _his_ share of the offence is, we know, not one of the barriers which society gives to virtue. In this world the penalty is less equal than could be wished" (ch.48). The unfairness of the gender imbalance is made explicitly and pointedly here - to be "equal" is both what is "just" and what is "wished" for.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

And Sanditon is wonderful! There is so much to say about it! - especially about characters who think of themselves in novelistic terms (Sir Edward Denham "had read more sentimental novels than agreed with him" (ch.8)). I am in fact writing a course at the moment about Austen's lesser known works (principally Sanditon, The Watsons, and Lady Susan), which I hope to have available within a few months.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

And thank you very much indeed for your kind compliment - I'm very pleased that you both love my channel! Octavia

@an8588 3 года назад

@@DrOctaviaCox Is the course going to be available to the public? I’d be very interested in it!

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Yes - that's my plan Ana! Octavia

@coloraturaElise 3 года назад

I totally agree that Marianne 'willed herself' into becoming ill because of Willoughby's abandonment, thus proving her true sensibility.

@mayrnibird9224 3 года назад

people die of broken hearts

@kahkah1986 3 года назад

Reads like an anorexia type episode to me.

@kwillow12 3 года назад

Funny, I thought the story was to inform the Reader that Colonel Brandon was, _despite his wearing of flannel!_ a suitably romantic and melodramatic partner for Marianne.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Oh I think it's that too! Marianne may not be aware of it (certainly at this point in the novel), but Austen is priming the reader to see how compatible the two of them are.

@firecracker4151 3 года назад

@@DrOctaviaCox In fact, Col. Brandon, through his participation in Eliza's story, is an authentic Gothic hero.

@tinad8561 3 года назад

Me as well. I took it to show that Brandon is...flannel notwithstanding...as susceptible to sensibility as Marianne, and views the world in her terms.

@lidette711 3 года назад

Dr. Cox, I've read Sense and Sensibility three times, mostly for entertainment. Because of your videos, I want to read it again! I actually am savoring Emma, reading it very slowly and carefully. I feel like your videos are a free literature master class. Thank you so much for your work, Doctor Cox.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Thank you for such a lovely, kind message! I am so pleased that you find them illuminating. Octavia

@tuxedonix2884 2 года назад

Same here. I feel i can really understand them better.

@brendamcalpine1341 3 года назад

As for Eliza Brandon’s story, I think it’s there chiefly to show how Col. Brandon is “the real thing” compared to Willoughby. Marianne is already predisposed toward romantic sensibility. She’s captivated by Willoughby’s grand gesture of literally sweeping her off her feet and carrying her home, and he cuts such a dashing figure. They talk for hours about poetry and literature. She disdains Brandon because of his age and his relatively calm demeanor (compared to Willoughby’s passion). But we come to see that Willoughby is all hat and no cattle, and that Brandon is the ideal man Marianne has been longing for, right down to carrying her home himself and riding off to fetch Mrs. Dashwood. Emma Thompson’s movie adaptation did a good job of showing Marianne’s attitude (“To die for love? How glorious!” “*These* are not from the hothouse.”). I don’t think any of the adaptations out there really delve into the gothic aspects of Col. Brandon’s telling of Eliza’s story. Its length simply isn’t screen-friendly, and it wasn’t until this video that I’d remembered how long that passage is in the book.

@CaptainAhorn 3 года назад

To be clear, Brandon carrying Marianne home is a movie invention from the 1995 version, repeated in 2008. That said, I believe all the movie/TV adaptations have recognized and tried to address the weaknesses in S&S regarding the men (Brandon and Edward) by emphasizing or even inventing scenes to fill in what Austen did not dramatize. For example starting with the 1971 adaptation (also 1981 and 2008) Brandon was placed at the ball where Willoughby finally rejects Marianne, which is not in the book. 2008 dramatizes the duel between Brandon and Willoughby. 1971, 1981, and 2008 do rather more than the book to show Brandon at the party where Mrs. Ferrars slights Elinor. And so on. If you read S&S carefully (especially the last third or so) you will find a number of instances where Austen relates a scene between Brandon and Marianne that happens “off stage”, which is an unfortunate weakness. There is an interview on RU-vid by Andrew Davies discussing this issue, which is worth watching. Regarding Brandon’s relation of Eliza’s story - really only the 1995 movie version has the excuse of brevity for cutting it down to bare bones. Beyond that, I think other adaptations have limited it because (IMO) this crucial monologue is overlong, rambling, and indecisive. I don’t see it as a very well-written piece of dialogue for the character and every time I read it I think GET TO THE POINT, MAN. And generally I’m fine with Austen’s wordiness, which is usually well-done, but not here.

@jogibson5851 3 года назад

'All hat and no cattle' - what a wonderful expression, and one I've not heard before.

@imasinnerimasaint 3 года назад

@@CaptainAhorn I think, when you're relaying difficult and intensely personal and emotional information like that, that becoming rambly is quite a natural human response.

@CaptainAhorn 3 года назад

@@imasinnerimasaint I disagree. IMO you tend to be pretty concise because you’ve thought it over (as he had) for a long time. I think it’s just Austen writing a male character more like a female character.

@imasinnerimasaint 3 года назад

@@CaptainAhorn ""You shall; and, to be brief, when I quitted Barton last October,--but this will give you no idea--I must go farther back. You will find me a very awkward narrator, Miss Dashwood; I hardly know where to begin." He knows he's awkward. Austen knows he's awkward. He's spent all his time debating with himself whether to say anything at all, and none on how to say it, because he kept flip flopping about whether it was best to talk or keep mum right up until Elinor gives him the encouragement that decides him on the issue. "My regard for her, for yourself, for your mother--will you allow me to prove it, by relating some circumstances which nothing but a VERY sincere regard--nothing but an earnest desire of being useful--I think I am justified--though where so many hours have been spent in convincing myself that I am right, is there not some reason to fear I may be wrong?" He stopped." All those hours were spent debating with himself whether to talk at all, not how to say his piece.

@jgriffin282 3 года назад

I think it was written in the hope that young women would look at the character of a potential partner instead of merely looks and infatuation. A very important lesson to learn for all young women and men.

@susanscott8653 Год назад

TBF, girls in the Regency era had perhaps less opportunity to ascertain a man's character before marriage.

@marycrawford1594 3 года назад

Thank you, that was a truly interesting analysis. To wander off topic slightly, Jane Austen was a master of her art. One of the (many) things that make Sense and Sensibility a great book, a great piece of literature, is the way that the characters differ in how they talk. Colonel Brandon speaks in a rather mannered way, which is off putting to a young girl and a free spirit like Marianne, yet she learns as the story progresses what a kind and good man he is. Mrs Jennings is a chatterbox who gets on Marianne's nerves, but again she realises later that she has a heart full of goodness. Mr Palmer is brusque to the point of rudeness, but puts his house at the Miss Dashwoods' disposal for as long as Marianne is ill. Edward Ferrers has difficulty expressing himself and only late in the story do we find out why. John Dashwood is full of fatuous comments. Lucy Steele knows how to make sweet sounding conversation that is loaded with barbs aimed at her victim. And finally there is Willoughby, the eloquent man never lost for words which he uses to hide the truth. Readers (and film audiences) who believe that Jane Austen didn't know much about men couldn't be more wrong.

@cynthiajohnson6170 3 года назад

Mary Crawford, I love your comment. I totally agree.

@evafenton515 2 года назад

I think that kind of difference in how characters speak and act is also why Shakespeare is immortal in literature.

@ctgraphy 3 года назад

It's interesting that Austen chooses not to 'Punish' female characters for the moral failings her contemporaries would have. "Lady Susan" is another one that comes to mind - And I'd love an analysis on that! (If you're looking for suggestions!) Thanks for your work and thoughts!

@lyndabritz9763 2 года назад

Mrs Rushworth certainly suffered for her moral weakness, ending up in a cottage with Mrs Norris. One can think of few worse fates.

@MsJubjubbird 2 года назад

@@lyndabritz9763 Eliza Williams was also sent to the country, probably for good. She would not be welcome in society.

@eilisnugent 2 года назад

@@lyndabritz9763 add Mrs. Elliot from Emma.

@susie2251 2 года назад

@@lyndabritz9763 but showing that society condemns someone is not the same as Austen condemning them in her writing.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

The narrative voice in ‘Emma’, on the death of Mrs Churchill, declares: “Goldsmith tells us, that when lovely woman stoops to folly, she has nothing to do but to die”. Austen mocks this idea in the figure of Mrs Churchill by continuing “she has nothing to do but to die; and when she stoops to be disagreeable, it is equally to be recommended as a clearer of ill-fame” (vol.3, ch.9). But I think the Goldsmith quotation Austen alludes to is relevant here - it’s from Oliver Goldsmith’s 'The Vicar of Wakefield' (1766), and this is the whole poem: When lovely woman stoops to folly, And finds too late that men betray, What charm can sooth her melancholy, What art can wash her guilt away? The only art her guilt to cover, To hide her shame from every eye, To give repentance to her lover, And wring his bosom-is to die. (ch.24)

@CassieLopez 2 года назад

Dr. Cox, once again you've given a wonderfully insightful analysis of something that I hadn't even questioned before! But my feeling about Eliza relates to Marianne's fate. As you say, she did get sick, but being young and strong she soon got over it. But she had always prized her "sensibility" over Elinor's "sense". I think the gothic story of Eliza is an illustration of what Marianne felt was the proper response to the tragedy of her life. She, in a way, TRIED to die for love. But she ended up being really too sensible to go through with it. She learned that her life is NOT a gothic novel, but a real life inhabited by real people.

@mingyusmop9907 3 года назад

ive never studied literature so your channel is the first time I’ve actually seen so many layers to austens writing.... it goes much deeper than i thought it was and thank you for this excellent analysis

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

It's the layers to her writing that - for me - make her novels such a pleasure to read and analyse! My pleasure, Mingyus. Octavia

@norarivkis2513 8 месяцев назад

I think the reason Colonel Brandon had to go through a classic Gothic novel-style heartbreak is that Marianne has already decided that nobody can ever love more than once. Since this Gothic style of love is the only variety that Marianne would really consider to be a "true love," he has to have experienced it so that we can see Marianne forced to learn that she was wrong about second loves. If she wants to believe him to be in love with her -- which his behavior shows him to be, and which she has every reason to hope for, once she begins to be interested in marrying him -- then she *must* acknowledge that it is possible for people to love truly more than once. She has no way, given her own beliefs about what love is, to squirm out of it by claiming that she's really his first love -- his feeling for Eliza matches her definitions of a proper love point for point. So she has to admit she was simply wrong in saying that people can't experience true love more than once in a lifetime.

@argusfleibeit1165 3 года назад

Well, it seems Marianne is exactly caught up with the idea that emotions should rule one's life. She becomes indignant and doesn't understand at all the restraint with which Eleanor reacts to her romantic disappointment. Marianne accuses her of basically not caring at all, then is shocked later to discover how wrong she has been. Marianne is a very "melodramatic" person, and she suffers greatly due to her inability to live with discipline and restraint in her emotional life.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

From the very first chapter we learn that Elinor is worried about exactly this in Marianne: "Elinor saw, with concern, the excess of her sister’s sensibility; but by Mrs. Dashwood it was valued and cherished. They encouraged each other now in the violence of their affliction. The agony of grief which overpowered them at first, was voluntarily renewed, was sought for, was created again and again. They gave themselves up wholly to their sorrow, seeking increase of wretchedness in every reflection that could afford it, and resolved against ever admitting consolation in future. Elinor, too, was deeply afflicted; but still she could struggle, she could exert herself..." (ch.1)

@CaptainAhorn 3 года назад

Eliza Brandon’s story explains why Col. Brandon is the way he is. Eliza is a “straight” example of the gothic, and Marianne is a counter-example (almost a parody) of the gothic. This is pretty much explicitly stated throughout the novel, with Elinor or the narrator repeatedly observing that Marianne’s romantic prejudices are unjust, ridiculous, or highly inconsistent. In particular, the Eliza story serves as a vehicle to highlight Marianne’s poor opinion of Col. Brandon, because she scorns someone who is both a good man and exactly the “romantic” soul she claims to want. I agree that Eliza is a gothic trope, but I think it’s a mistake to completely minimize her as only a trope, or only an example of the convention of “transgression/punishment” regarding females. I think to some degree you have to read her situation “straight”. What would happen to an upperclass young woman suddenly thrown onto her own devices with nothing else but her looks and minimal income? She had no one we know of outside of the Brandon family, and after the scandal of her divorce no one would hire her as a governess. Some form of courtesanship or prostitution is likely. I think that the example of Lydia and Wickam is not really the same, because that was only a period of weeks during which Lydia suffered no real privation physically, and was obviously completely insensible to the social damage she was doing herself and her family. Lydia wasn’t pregnant (AFAWK) and also had her family to fall back on even if Wickam abandoned her. Mrs Bennet would probably accept her back, or if not the Bennet family would find some means of supporting her. Eliza on the other hand suffered over a period of at least three years, probably endured physical hardship, had no one to fall back on, had to care for an infant, and was probably forced into either genteel or very literal prostitution. Trope, yes, but I think there’s some humanity in there too. Finally, I think a video on Col. Brandon/Marianne would be great. He’s probably the most “Byronic” Austen hero, but not as well-drawn as later heroes because Austen wrote little dialogue between he and Marianne. That said, there are quite a few references in the books to scenes between them that happen “off screen”. I think it’s an interesting idea to go through S&S and look at those “un-dramatized” scenes.

@surialbert1591 Год назад

I agree that Eliza would have probably needed to engage in prostitution for income and the life of a prostitute on the streets would have actually meant hardship, possible starvation, as well as disease. It’s not just a gothic trope. It’s an accurate description, albeit described in melodramatic language, of what life was really like for most prostitutes on the streets at that time.

@faisalahmed-oo6jr 3 года назад

Absolutely brilliant... This whole channel is a treasure trove... Thank you so much

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Much appreciated Faisal.

@heathermatthies3638 3 года назад

For me, the way Col. Brandon describes his past in Gothic terms is a window to how novels "used" to be written but not how Jane Austen writes them. She's showing the contrast while also telling a good Gothic just to maybe show she can.

@rosezingleman5007 3 года назад

There is an argument to be made that poor moral choices do have a physical impact if one would prefer to make the “moral choice”. Lydia Bennet’s rambunctious is supposed to indicate that she is utterly unaware of standards of behavior in polite society. Lydia is not victimized. Eliza Brandon IS victimized by being separated from Col. Brandon. We are to view Col. Brandon as a highly moral man, who presumably would only be devoted to a woman of similar inclination. Eliza’s “fall” from grace is a conscious one, Lydia’s is unconscious. Therefore, Eliza would suffer from the self-knowledge of her own moral failing-she wanted a joyful faithful marriage. Lydia is a “dedicated flirt.” She could commit murder and justify it to herself.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Absolutely Rose. I wonder though if Lydia is unconscious of her 'immoral' behaviour or merely indifferent to it being perceived as such? When Darcy discovers her in London with Wickham, we're told that this was her response: "His first object with her, he acknowledged, had been to persuade her to quit her present disgraceful situation, and return to her friends as soon as they could be prevailed on to receive her, offering his assistance, as far as it would go. But he found Lydia absolutely resolved on remaining where she was. She cared for none of her friends; she wanted no help of his; she would not hear of leaving Wickham. She was sure they should be married some time or other, and it did not much signify when." (ch.52)

@Redberryfarm888 3 года назад

@@DrOctaviaCox Probably she is both unconscious and indifferent to it, in my opinion. Lydia's mother encouraged her to fawn after the officers early in the story, as well as to go to Brighton to be a companion of the much younger wife of Col Forster. The father, Mr. Bennet, seems only to be concerned with his pocketbook and getting some peace and quiet while Lydia is absent... comforting himself in his passivity that she is 'safe' from trouble, not having any fortune to tempt unworthy men. (... and that the Colonel has nothing else to do but to protect Lydia?! Passing the buck, as it were?) Lydia is doing exactly what was encouraged from her by her parents, and can't understand what the 'problem' is all about. She believes herself to have gotten/ attracted a good catch, whether or not he marries her.

@pidgetheobscure494 3 года назад

Thank you for opening my eyes to an aspect of a book I've read and reread so many times! I had previously only seen this part of the novel as a way of illustrating the similar romanticism in the natures of Colonel Brandon and Marianne. The way Brandon talks about this situation uses the same sort of words and phrasing as the novels and poetry that Marianne loves. Brandon's age and appearance don't fit with Marianne's idea of the tragic romantic/gothic hero, but his story, and the way he tells it dose. This was the first time I started to believe that they might have enough of a similar outlook on life to be compatible.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

I completely agree - I think that's absolutely true too. But I think Austen likes to have her cake and eat it too! Marianne is teased, after all, by the novel for her 'sensibility'. Austen can enjoy poking fun at conventional novelistic displays of 'sensibility', and, simultaneously, show that there is a sincere sympathy between the way that Brandon and Marianne process their emotions - as though, ironically, they were the in a novel!

@user-zo4ig4xx5n 3 года назад

I think that one of Austen's goals might have been to warn her readers about the possible dangers of giving in to excessive 'sensibility' depicted by Mrs Brandon

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Perhaps. And/or perhaps to warn against the dangers of the cold-heartedness (the lack of sensibility) of Brandon's brother and father?

@piesRevil 3 года назад

This trope that a fallen woman can only truly repent through death has been around for ages. It's very disturbing. I'm reminded of a 10th century play entitled "The Conversion of Thais the Who**" where Thais, a courtesan, is tortured by a saint in order to save her soul. Eventually, she renounces her evil ways, but the saint decides she still hasn't repented enough and imprisons her. When she's finally released, she's at death's door, but super grateful for having had the chance to repent. She receives a prayer/blessing and dies. It makes me wonder if gothic themes take their roots from Medieval miracle/saint's plays.

@ruthfeiertag 3 года назад

What an intriguing notion!

@Izabela-ek5nh 3 года назад

Umph. Why do you think it is called GOTHIC...? :)

@hayleysimoneau6407 3 года назад

This was just fascinating to think about. The more you talked about Colonel Brandon's narrative, the more I thought about how it also makes him the "right" kind of match for Marianne. She is a Romantic. This account proves that his heart is drawn to the same kind of angst, perhaps, that hers is.

@sarahmwalsh 3 года назад

This was a wonderful examination of how Austen was developing her style as a novelist, using the literary devices and tropes that she made such a point of lambasting in Northanger Abbey! I realized, too, that Mrs. Eliza Brandon is very similar to Fanny Price - if Fanny Price had been rich. Even though she is poor and dependent on the Bertram's wealth, they exploit Fanny (or attempt to exploit her) in every other way - certainly in manipulating her emotions and making her feel inferior while insisting that she express gratitude - and by trying to force her to marry Mr. Crawford, whose connections and fortune would enhance theirs.

@camy1702 3 года назад

With regards to Marianne, I have often wondered why the hill where she meets Willoughby is called High Church Down. When I first read the novel I took the Marianne's fall to be not only necessary for the plot but also telling the reader what had happened . Marianne had "fallen" for Willoughby. But the religious connotations of the name could bring in the idea of the fallen woman as you discuss in your talk. I don't think the text justifies the conclusion that Marianne slept with Willoughby but why call the hill High Church Down ? Anyway thanks for another fascinating and enjoyable talk.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

That is an absolutely brilliant observation - that the hill that Marianne and Willoughby meet on is called "High-Church Down" (ch.12). It's exactly the kind of detail that readers should ponder. After all, as you say, Austen deliberately gave it that name, and pointedly reveals that name to readers. So, the question then becomes, why? I shall ponder it.

@londongael 2 года назад

@@DrOctaviaCox I know this is too late to be seen, but I can't help observing that "a false step brought her suddenly to the ground". Hmmm....

@dawnsrayz 3 года назад

I believe you are right. But I also think this narrative is crucial to understanding Col. Brandon and in setting up a fantastic irony around his character, especially contrasted with Willoughby. Up until this point in the book he's a bit of a dud as far as a hero goes. The sensible people of the community see his worth but Marianne doesn't and Willoughby is considered so much more alluring. He is a kind, thoughtful suitor and that isn't as fun as Willoughby who races his carriage and whisks Marianne about, even hoisting her up and rescuing her. And when Marianne falls in love with Willoughby Brandon isn't insanely jealous and eager to dual. He just accepts it and wishes her well. Then he gives a party and leaves it to everyone's disappointment and a romantic reader doesn't think much of him and favors Willoughby just as Marianne does. But when Willoughby's true character is shown, how he falters in love, and all these flaws about him surface, then we get this melodrama from Col Brandon that shocks you and you see he's a man of deep and passionate and enduring feelings. That he is truly the romantic figure and Willoughby is a flighty bugger who doesn't have much real worth at all. Plus, I believe Jane Austen wanted to let the reader know that Eliza wasn't the ultimate failed love affair that Brandon perceived her as. She is warped to be a kind of abused angel, when in reality she was a scandalously wild seductress who wouldn't be tamed, especially by a husband she never wanted. And this is much like Marianne herself, who loved Willoughby to a fault despite his being so wild and reckless. You are left, as the reader, with these two characters of lasting affection and extremely romantic dispositions, Brandon and Marianne, who are truly the love of each other's lives, who have real and lasting compatibility. If Jane didn't go over the top here and describe this we would either think Brandon has no passion, or if he does, that it will always be for Eliza and our heroine Marriane will always be second fiddle. In releasing this we can accept that, in time, Brandon will come to fully bury Eliza, Marianne will completely release Willoughby, and these two will truly find each other in a real way without melodramatics.

@kahkah1986 3 года назад

I think it is really important that Brandon knows where to find Marianne, and that he goes after her later. They understand each other emotionally, they see things in quite dramatic, egotistical but not at all unkind or uncaring ways. Their feelings guide them to care for others. They naturally 'are' Gothic in the way that Edward and Elinor are naturally neoclassical, stoic, reserved, ordered.

@dawnsrayz 3 года назад

@@kahkah1986 that's true. It reminds me of that remark Mrs. Jennings makes that Brandon knows as many melancholy tunes as Marianne. :)

@helenwelch1554 Год назад

Dear Dr Cox, Thank you for your delightful You Tube Channel. (I have just discovered it.) Yours faithfully, Helen Welch - an Australian Admirer.

@brianatford6603 3 года назад

I absolutely love this reading. Thank you for drawing and contextualizing the lines between S&S and Northanger. I never appreciated the melodrama of Eliza's story, and now that I'm thinking of this that way, the two novels more clearly set up the Austen's thesis of moderation. It also gives me a newfound appreciation for Marianne's arc, as a reader of books herself, and ultimately taking on the role of Mrs. Brandon, now with moderation and without that excess.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Absolutely my pleasure. I'm glad you enjoyed the video.

@sunfyrewoman 3 года назад

Ohhhh! I had forgot Eliza was married & divorced! I only read S&S 1 time and then proceeded to excessively watch the Emma Thompson movie, in which the story of Eliza gets changed. Great video, now I have to scroll thru and see if you have anything on Jane Eyre😁

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Thank you! No analysis of Jane Eyre yet - I'm working on it. Octavia

@Keyaqp 3 года назад

From your channel I can actually learn something which I can't say I did back when I was in college. Brilliant! Please keep it up!

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Thank you! Much appreciated. Octavia

@sullyroddy 2 года назад

I would be interested in hearing what kind of lives "fallen" women lead, like Maria Bertram and Eliza Brandon (the second one).

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Do let me know what you think. I’d love to hear from you.

@Alexandra-ci4py 3 года назад

Could the physical deterioration also be hinting at syphilis? The disease took its toll mentally and physically, could also account for the aggression of some characters and was a very real consequence of being out in the world.

@subratanandy2142 3 года назад

No. It's said 'consumption' , which means tuberculosis.

@oddlibrarianout1295 3 месяца назад

I think at the "a consumption" ment any wasting desease. I always assumed it was some sort of STD

@einahsirro1488 3 года назад

I was waiting for you to mention CLARISSA. LOL! I threw my hands up in triumph when you finally did. (I love Clarissa.) And if you ever do cover CLARISSA, I'd be so, so happy! I think there are lots of subtle allusions to that novel in Austen's writing. In Mansfield Park, ch 24, I'm convinced that "unconquerable young ladies of eighteen (or one should not read about them) as are never to be persuaded into love against their judgment by all that talent, manner, attention, and flattery can do," has to be about Clarissa.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Fabulous quotation! Another great example of Austen setting up her own heroines in contrast to the expected novelistic 'pictures of perfection' - although one may read about such women as Clarissa, "I have no inclination to believe Fanny one of them" (MP ch.24).

@karensumpter7752 3 года назад

I wish this had existed in the early 90’s when I was studying this novel.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Ha! - thank you. Octavia

@cynthiajohnson6170 3 года назад

I’m not at all your standard of education and knowledge but I love Jane Austen so I’m delighted to hear all your ideas. I’ve agreed with nearly all of them, sometimes being amazed that finally someone agrees with me. Sorry I haven’t flagged all your videos. I just wanted to get onto the next one as I was enjoying them so much. I’ll go back and thumbs up them all. I just wanted to say that I can’t quite agree with you about Colonel Brandon’s story. Until you said so I had never considered it to be over the top. I love how she makes fun of the gothic, especially in Northanger Abbey and I understand what you are saying but Colonel Brandon, to me, isn’t trying to be gothic in any way. I think Jane put these words into his mouth because Eliza’s situation , and all other girls and women who weren’t rich at that time who were let down by men, is so bad that it couldn’t be conveyed adequately in lesser language. If he’d said less and not used that language I think it would all have been forgotten immediately. It had to be strong to be memorable and to adequately bring out later what a creep Willoughby is. There was nothing for a deserted girl who was pregnant but prostitution or quiet starvation as they watch their baby die. Their situation WAS desperate, and was a matter of life and death and that’s why the gothic is not inapt. A deserted girl, whose family would not take her back, could perhaps work as a skivvy, or kitchen maid, thus not starving. No quality of life but alive. The rich who would read Jane’s books knew the theory but never experienced anything like it. They continued on with their money and their ignorance. I felt that Jane was forcing them to face it; a bit like “An Inspector Calls”. The inspector has an hour so he can speak more calmly, but Jane has one very short story, gone in three minutes, to convey real horror. The colonel also won’t be waving his arms about and speaking madly dramatically, but I see it as speaking calmly and slowly , with time for some feeling to register with the listener. Also I didn’t feel Marianne had to be ill for moral literary reasons. I felt it fitted with her character. I expected her to refuse to eat etc and even revel in it, and if you refuse to eat your body will start to shut down. I could imagine Marianne thinking “this will make him sorry when he hears about it.” It became part of her maturing, as she says later. Anyway thankyou for allowing me to state my case to someone who is mistress of the genre and can debate. Thanks for sharing all your insights. I’m thoroughly enjoying them. Cynthia Johnson

@debra-vs 3 года назад

So many books! So little time! I'm thrilled to find your channel and have the chance to delve deeply into some of my favorite classics. I taught high school English - both literature and composition - in the 70s and 80s (yes, I'm a Senior Citizen :-). I never had the chance to dig in and analyze books like this unless I was writing a paper. I'm so enjoying the chance to do so now. Thank you for sharing publicly. It's such a pleasure. 💝

@rufescens 3 года назад

Sense and Sensibility used to be my favorite Jane Austen novel, because I loved all the surprises and plot twists, and all the clever double-meanings in the dialog, especially between Elinor and Lucy. I still love the novel a great deal, but I've come to see it as a little bit cartoonish. The depiction of Marianne as an idealist romantic who is rude to so many people close to her seems almost like a caricature, and Elinor practices self-control to a fault. And it seems like there's a moralistic message in the novel. (Is there a moralistic streak to Jane Austen's writing in general?) Marianne suffers a serious illness during which she ends up having to confront and acknowledge her failings, and she ends up not getting her (first choice of a) man. Elinor, on the other hand, who has always acted properly, does get to marry the man she loves. What's the relation of the moralistic message in Sense and Sensibility (or in Jane Austen in general) to Gothic writing, if there is one? [As an aside, while I find a lot to relate to in several of the main characters in Sense and Sensibility, I find it easier to be drawn to some of Jane Austen's other heroines, who seem to me to be more realistic mixes of positive and negative. My favorite is Catherine Morland, who is depicted as not having been a particularly good student, not being especially beautiful, not particularly inclined to self-control or hard work, being very naive, and making many, many social mistakes--and yet doing well in the end thanks to being an honest, well-meaning person. I can relate to her shortcomings, and the happy ending of her particular story gives me hope.]

@ashleyclinton3485 10 месяцев назад

This has basically been said already, but I think the reason she used the Gothic style and emphasized that form of literary style is to show that Colonel Branden is the real life, romantic hero that Marianne idealizes. Marianne’s passionate naivety leads her to imagine that the world functions as a Gothic novel. Colonel Branden appears to see the worlds in a similar view to her, but with more justification for his perspective. Marianne eventually comes to appreciate Colonel Branden for his genuine, romantic qualities.

@kimberlyperrotis8962 3 года назад

I love your analysis. I recently took a English Literature class for fun (I’m a science graduate, but have loved English novels since childhood) and all the professor did was ask every five minutes “so, what is this book about?”, yawn. It was Wuthering Heights.

@bethotoole6569 3 года назад

Where has this channel been all my life???? So enjoying it..😘

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Ha! - Excellent - I'm glad you're enjoying it. Octavia

@HvanHerk 3 года назад

Reading this passage, I imagined Jane Austen reading it to her mother and sister. They must have laughed so much hearing it.

@CeitDeVitto 3 года назад

Thank you for this. I forgot the difference between the book version and the movie version of Eliza's story. Now I have to re-read Sense and Sensibility!

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Ha! It's never a problem to have to re-read Austen!

@CeitDeVitto 3 года назад

@@DrOctaviaCox This is very true! I love Austen.

@RavenousDevil 2 года назад

Could you explain what Brandon meant by "his tastes were not what they ought to have been"? I've always wondered.

@jordanserchuk7418 20 дней назад

In context I assume it means he cheated on his wife. Not only was he cold and unloving toward her, he desired other women too, and he acted on it.

@DarksideBallerina 3 года назад

CLARISSA DID NOTHING WRONG! Sorry for the outburst, Samuel Richardson's novels make me so angry, I can't even bring myself to watch your insights on Pamela just yet. I appreciate your highlights on how Austen parallels with the gothic novels that writers and readers were moving away from. I always found a Willoughby or a Wickham far more sinister than the outright, cartoonish evil of a Robert Lovelace (the name is even far too telling). I need to read Northanger Abbey finally, I love gently ribbing a genre.

@JonathanJanshon 3 года назад

What a great job, good channel by the way. Greetings from Argentina.

@JayAnnAych 3 года назад

I'm truly glad to have found your channel yesterday! :D I started reading S&S during Christmas again but haven't yet had the time to finish again and listening to your videos and thoughts on Jane Austens' writing makes me appreciate all the little details in her books even more! Thank you so much for relaying it in 'laymans terms' for the general reader, who doesn't have time to dive so deep into the topic and intricacies. I especially love your take on Persuasion and Mansfield Park (i LOVE the movie with Frances O'Connor!) and your essays gave me a deep sense of appreciation for Austen and her take on different women and ways of dealing with the fate life hands you. [btw: sorry, if the expressions are wrong, english is my second language but i try my best] I must say, though i think i have seen almost every movie adaptation and read the book before (i think two times, on in german and one in english) the marriage of Eliza end Colonel Brandons Brother ESCAPED me completely! I had totally forgotten about that detail (i remember the movie-version with Emma Thompson the best, but love the new BBC thee-parter) and can't for the life of me remember that! Lucky i'm reading the book again! Having learned from you about the details and the 'behind-the-scenes'-knowledge about gothic writing, i love the book even more!

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Thank you for your kind words JayAnnAych. I am always very happy to have enhanced someone's love for Austen's novels! They are so intricate and well-wrought that unpicking them only makes them stronger! Octavia

@christiannechase3353 3 года назад

Just discovered your channel---thanks so much for your stimulating, engaging videos!

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Thank you. I'm glad you are enjoying them and finding them interesting. Octavia

@raianesantanadapaz8727 3 года назад

Hello, Dr. Octavia, my name is Raiane, and I'm from Brazil, and it was with joy that I discovered your channel on RU-vid. I am watching your videos, and I particularly enjoy those about Jane Austen. I would like to suggest to you making a video about Mr. Palmer, of Sense and Sensibility; I always thought that he would be the perfect husband for Elinor. But of course, he was already married with Charlotte. Thank you for your work!

@JasmineGeminiDragon 3 года назад

Am I the only one who kept thinking... Elinore & Colonel Brandon would have made a better match? I just seeing those two and thought... they both would have been such a nice couple for each other. I know symbolically they were matched with the other but... seeing their quiet conversations & how he opens up to Eli about his painful past... just... saw a spark there. At least I can see them becoming close best friends tho.

@cynthiajohnson6170 3 года назад

I thought that all the way through my first reading. Still think it sometimes.

@susanscott8653 Год назад

When I first saw the Emma Thompson version of Sense and Sensibility, I thought they would end up together (not having read the book). To paraphrase Sir John Middleton - I would not give him up to a younger sister. 😉

@oekmama 3 года назад

Interesting. I think Austen put both gothic subplots (in Northanger Abbey and S&S) n the past, to indicate that those types of stories belonged in the past.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

That's a really excellent observation.

@irisblue2332 3 года назад

After stumbling on your channel and watching a few videos, I'm excited to reread Austen's works, which I devoured in a few months 30 years ago after reading Pride and Prejudice in high school. I've reread a few since then, but mostly I've just watched and enjoyed the various film adaptations. Your analysis is exciting, because there is so much more than I picked up on at the time. I would love any recommendations for guides/analyses similar to the kind of thing you do here on your channel--i.e. material that supports close reading while still being accessible and welcoming. Looking forward to watching the rest of your posts and to beginning my new reading adventure!

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Thank you for such a lovely message Siri! As it so happens, I am currently writing that very thing! I'm writing my own guides/analyses of Austen's works exactly as you suggest - accessible and welcoming but also intellectually and academically sound and rigorous. I hope you enjoy the rest of my videos! Octavia

@halyeponi9391 3 года назад

I'm glad that I found your channel

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Excellent - welcome aboard! Octavia

@catherinenunan3584 3 месяца назад

I appreciate the explanation of why the excess and melodrama happens off scene in the book. I simply cannot imagine Jane Austen wanting to write in the melodramatic/gothic manner. i know this video was from a few years ago but seeing that snow was wonderful, given I am in sunny, Autumnal Australia!

@katescrimgeour3884 3 года назад

I've just recentlt discovered your videos and am now "binge listening" to them. I'm on to listen to your videos about Persuasion - which has always been my favourite Jane Austen book.

@windangel7720 3 года назад

Thank you for this video. I knew from reading about Jane Austen that something about her novels was supposed to be humor and satire, but I never understood exactly how. I've always read her novels for a glimpse into her time period, the love stories, and the rich, complex language in which she wrote (I think I am in love with the language). Now I have more of an understanding and appreciation of her work. Also, I have been in love with Col. Brandon as a romantic hero for years, but never quite understood his dark past as well as I do now. This really helped. You would make a really great teacher, I would fully enjoy your classes. Just for fun I'm writing a novel very inspired by Sense and Sensibility and Brandon in particular. I've always felt Brandon was given a raw deal, that he won Marianne by default, and while she might have warmed to him a little by the end, she just didn't love him as much as he deserved to be loved. While Marianne, who didn't deserve to be treated so badly by Willoughby, got the better end of the deal by marrying a well-respected and wealthy man who truly did love her, but didn't appreciate how very lucky she was. So I'm giving my "Brandon" the love story I think he deserves, and teaching my "Marianne" the real meaning of love. I'm having a lot of fun weaving the romance through the complex language patterns of the Regency, but it's a real challenge to make it sound authentic and yet easy enough to read for the average American. I don't know if you respond to comments, but I would so greatly appreciate any resources on the written and spoken language of the Napoleonic/Georgian/Regency era, if you know of any. Their grammar was far more complex and elegant than our modern way of speaking English.

@joannawagstaffe1190 3 года назад

You could do a lot worse than read the historical novels by Georgette Heyer. Not only does she write very well but she researched the food and language of the time (C18th and early C19th) very carefully, particularly slang. For colloquial language used mainly by men perhaps start with Friday's Child. Good luck!

@effie358 3 года назад

And now I know I better stay away from gothic novels, they are not for me ahah. Thank you so much for making these videos! They shed a brand new light on passages I wouldn't have otherwise given a second thought. All I knew about the Eliza/Brandon relationship was that I didn't much care for it when first reading the book; it matter to me only in light of what it exposed concerning Willoughby. While now, it's a very interesting and insightful note on Jane Austen's view on a popular genre she probably grew up reading a lot of, it's awesome!

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Thank you - I'm always happy to share new light on old favourites! It's a 'trick' Austen uses a lot, I think, hiding important ideas behind seemingly irrelevant details.

@effie358 3 года назад

@@DrOctaviaCox and thanks to you I am starting to noticed it too, thank you for breaking down her works for us, I love it a lot! I am looking forward to any new video of yours

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Cheers!

@jennysedgley8284 2 года назад

I read Colonel Brandon's language as that of a young man, emotional & giddy in first love, who is nonetheless emotionally stable & matures into a passionate yet more considered expression of love for Marianne. There is a kernel of truth in Gothic excess.

@ruthfeiertag 3 года назад

Not only am I enjoying your videos, I am also impressed by the comments and conversation they engender. Your explications spark truly thoughtful observations. Well done!

@bkmbkmbkm Год назад

Perhaps Austen felt that the fate women like Eliza Brandon were subjugated to was a subject worth the dramatic language of Gothic writing? If I was in love with a girl but couldn’t be with her because we were in a society that completely ruined her, I’d feel she was lost to me FOREVERRRRR

@Ritercrazy Месяц назад

Thanks for leaving your slip in the video. It was endearing.

@kyraburns7872 3 года назад

Thank you for outlining so clearly (and entertainingly!) how Austen used this Gothic device in S&S. I always think it's so interesting how you can see her style evolve from these early novels of the 1790's to her later works like Persuasion. I greatly enjoyed your insight.

@kathyroddy 2 года назад

Dr. Cox---a question---I read someone suggest that Mr. Knightly wasn't necessarily in love with Emma, but she was the closest local heiress, and he was interested in her fortune and in adding her property to his. It was pointed out that he was closing off the commons to his tenants. What do you think?

@EvBarney 3 года назад

I wish you had spoken of Eliza Williams, the way she grew up, and her 'ruin' via Willoby.

@lydiakuekes513 2 года назад

Dr. Cox, I have a question I'd love for you to discuss about Sense & Sensibility that has always perplexed me - why was it possible for Lucy Steele to marry the younger Robert Ferrars after his mother so harshly reacted to the announcement of the engagement between Lucy and Edward Ferrars? Why did Mrs. Ferrars not disinherit Robert as she had Edward (or did she)? And in your opinion, did Lucy truly love Robert or was her motivation always money? Similarly - why did Mrs. Ferrars allow the marriage between Eleanor and Edward - was it favorable in comparison to that with Miss Steele, or was she just out of leverage since she'd already disinherited him? I would love to hear your thoughts on this!

@katehurstfamilyhistory 2 года назад

If I remember correctly, when Mrs. Ferrars found about Edward and Lucy's engagement, she saw her lawyer about changing her will, and (probably out of spite and acting on impulse) gave Edward's inheritance to Robert in some sort of arrangement that couldn't be reversed. Which - of course - meant that when Robert decided to marry Lucy (or Lucy followed the money/property from one brother to the other?), Mrs. Ferrars had essentially tied herself up in a knot that couldn't be unravelled. (I sometimes suspect that Mrs. Ferrars used the threat of disinheritance to make her sons behave the way she wanted them to, as well.) Also, in Chapter 50, there is a description of how Mrs. Ferrars tries to convince Edward not to marry Elinor; when he listens to her opinion but "was by no means inclined to be guided by it, she judged it wisest, from the experience of the past, to submit" - so I'm guessing that, by that stage, Mrs. Ferrars had to concede that she couldn't actually force Edward to marry a rich woman.

@rogersledz6793 3 года назад

Thank you so much for uploading this video. It is helping me get through the pandemic!

@julieontology7214 3 года назад

Thank you so much for these lectures. I've learned MUCH more from you here than I did in several college courses on the English novel back in college, years ago. You bring these ideas to life using you're familiarity with all of her works and of course, sticking to the text, with a depth I did not get in college. I had some wonderful professors. I went to a small State college, and all of my professors were PhDs. But we just read so much so quickly, there wasn't an opportunity to go into great depth on any one novel. And I think we only read Pride and Prejudice. I read the rest on my own.

@Cotictimmy 3 года назад

Best (and most subtle) Austen reader/blogger on RU-vid (I.M.H.O.)

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Thank you very much Cotictimmy - very kind of you to say. Octavia

@paulapoetry 3 года назад

Fascinating analysis. Of course, the daughter Eliza was involved with Willoughby, before he met Marianne, so the stories also connected in this way. Marianne's confinement was a less dramatic version of the usual storyline, in which the heroine dies. I would love to hear your analysis of Charlotte Temple, a very melodramatic novel. Even though Wuthering Heights came later, Cathy's death was in this category of Gothic melodrama. There are lines that I recall as: "If I've done wrong, I'm dying for it. It is enough," but I don't clearly remember full novel texts, which mix with movie adaptation versions, in my mind. Love your channel and these videos. 😀❤

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

That's exactly it - fabulous quotation! Cathy says to Heathcliff: "If I’ve done wrong, I’m dying for it. It is enough!" (Wuthering Heights ch.15). Exactly - Marianne is contrasted with both Elizas (and their, in novelistic terms, conventional fates).

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

And thank you very much indeed - I'm very pleased you like my videos. Octavia

@ztgglis 3 года назад

I love your series. Thank you.

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

It's my pleasure. Much appreciated. Octavia

@heathergroves4497 3 года назад

I had always thought that Col. Brandon emphasised that Eliza was lost to him *forever* because, back then, it was unlawful to marry ones sister-in-law, therefore, even though the Colonel's brother died, he couldn't marry Eliza. I wonder if that law was to keep younger brothers from killing older brothers to get the inheritance?

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

At the time that Austen was writing, a marriage between a widow / widower and their deceased spouse's brother / sister went against ecclesiastical law but was not technically illegal (it was made absolutely illegal with the passing of the Marriage Act in 1835). Such a marriage could be annulled if it was challenged (and both parties were still alive), but was not void in itself. In fact, Austen's own brother, Charles, married Frances Palmer in 1807, and went on to marry Frances’s sister Harriet Palmer in 1820, after Frances’s (and indeed JA's) death.

@beverlybenson9981 6 месяцев назад

Thank you for your analysis about background characters.

@pamigreenway Год назад

This is something that I think I've subconsciously intuited all along but you've really nailed it properly and I feel I understand Austen even more now.

@francescaseyer4709 3 года назад

Wonderful! Thank you for taking the time and effort 👍

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.

@h-di4qd 10 месяцев назад

you are just brilliant! thank you so much for your work!

@juliehilton1701 3 месяца назад

Brilliant thank you I would like to consider captain Benick in persuasion as being a true hero he knew the situation went worth was in and stepped in to save him imo

@janeth4121 3 года назад

I love your channel and its great to see you finally!!!

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Ha - thank you. Octavia

@katdenning6535 3 года назад

I’d never thought about this gothic part of Sense and Sensibility much before. Great review!

@Mparthur 3 года назад

As Eliza's story belongs to the past...15 or so years ago, could it be also showing Gothic as something of the past (sort of like a flashback in the style of that time) in contrast to the present novel where Austen comer with her amazing new ways of telling a story?

@mchapman6835 3 года назад

Do you think Colonel Brandon's brother could possibly be a homosexual which Austen could not say in the novel? His father dying and divorce enabled him not to marry again, staying happily single and leaving his younger brother to inherit the estate. He too must have been scared of offending his father in refusing to marry in the first place but wanted her dowry.

@simonestreeter1518 3 года назад

I think Austen has more than one homosexual man in her novels, in addition to having Mary Crawford joke about 'rears and vices' in Mansfield Park. I read a doctoral dissertation on this topic in which the author lays out a pretty good case that Darcy and Bingley were lovers, in Pride and Prejudice. I just reread it, and could find quite a lot to back that up, in terms of Darcy's change in 'allowing' Bingley to finally marry Jane.

@seanwalsh5717 2 года назад

Col Brandon gets into a SWORD FIGHT with Willoughby. That is gothic.

@maryofventura4767 3 года назад

Could it be that with Brandon/ Eliza we have an older brother married to the love of the younger brother we whereas at the end of S&S the younger brother (Robert) makes off with the fiance of the elder brother to everyone's delight, enabling the story to end happily for everyone.

@sarahs6906 2 года назад

Would love if you did George Eliot’s Daniel Derronda, Elizabeth Gaskell’s Wives and Daughters or North and South🙏🙏🙏🙏

@mikiberge6427 3 года назад

Thank you, I’m so much better informed about the structure and background to Jane Austen’s novels.

@welthawood 2 года назад

I love your videos. I have my Master's in English Language and Literature (and really enjoyed my work with Jane Austen) - you are such a good close-reader and enjoyable to listen to. Thank you for your videos.

@evelyne7071 2 года назад

Nice that you are able to put these stories into the social circumstances of the times in which they were written.

@lovetolovefairytales 3 года назад

I never realized the points you made here! Very clever!

@DrOctaviaCox 3 года назад

Ha! - thank you. Octavia

@kimberlywing5124 Год назад

Learned a lot from this video and makes me want to read other novels of the time for comparison of style. Thank you, Dr Cox, for these in-depths and insights and thank you for taking the time to reply and respond to comments. Your responses added more detail education in some cases.

@rhamel5147 2 года назад

Dr. Cox again enhances the richness of Jane Austen, in this case by explaining the connection between Austen's parody of Gothic tropes and Austen's own sophisticated sarcasm within her novels. Within this context, it seems that the marriage of Marianne and Col.Brandon describes a happy gothic ending but one that, for readers, does not portend a sustained marital happiness. The melodramatic course of Elizabeth Brandon's life and circumstances, perhaps a natural outcome of the gothic genre in general, I think, suggests that Brandon in seeing similarities between Elizabeth and Marianne, has not learned much along the way. The "gothic tropes" seem picked up by Emily Bronte in Wuthering Heights, itself sometimes referred to as a gothic novel, and carried to a realistic but not typically gothic excess through the misery which Heathcliff and Cathy enact on each other. Not typically gothic because Cathy, though she dies, lives on for Heathcliff as his punishment, which he happily accepts, but the next generation leave behind the woe and anger of their forebears to make a new, "normal" life, on the ground of prior unhappiness and bitter resentment of two confounded lovers unable to consummate their love except as ghosts, not based on a typically gothic formula of outside forces and evil parents/guardians, (though there is that too) but more the realistic outcome of two people in love who know very well how to hurt each other, which they do exceptionally well. In other words, a psychological novel, taken to its limits, which Austen did not do, but still gave us a cutting humor for which she continues to gain readers. Robert

@cindland 2 года назад

I absolutely love your videos. Thank you, thank you, thank you, for allowing me an outlet to express my love for Jane A.!

@mecheva9098 3 года назад

Interesting point about the parallel between the moral anguish and physical degeneration, especially as a way to show the intrinsic moral goodness of the woman. However, I think there is also the practical reality that physical abuse of the body through prostitution, addiction, and deprivation often does lead to physical illness and death. I mean, have you seen meth addicts?

@lyndabritz9763 2 года назад

Hi Dr Cox, I assumed that Eliza Brandon died of complications of syphilis or similar as she had been unchaste. Her health is ruined quite rapidly. She is the typical lovely woman who stooped to folly... It’s a very Gothic end to poor Eliza. I do enjoy your analyses of these real-to-us characters. Regards, Lynda