Worse? No, It’s all WORSE. It’s all bad. I’ve experienced both. Don’t say it’s worse than physical abuse especially because physical abuse comes WITH mental and emotional 😮 abuse. Imagine being beat up AND emotionally abused.
I sat here about 1/2 hour after listening to your video and cried thinking about what I been through. My heart ached so bad Lisa. Thank you for helping all of us. I remember I took Cosmetology and had to take the test twice. My step father said I was stupid and blah blah blah! My husband was and is just like my step father. I went back and aced it! I listen to you everyday because you encourage me so much Lisa. You are so awesome. I went shopping yesterday and was so happy! I plan on taking a trip to Mexico by myself to get some space.
This is my mother, she did so much damage before I really understood how she thinks. What's so frustrating is that most other people cannot accept that there are people like her in this world. That's really what took me so long to assert what I"d always experienced as true: the rest of my world insisted my reality could not be.
I experienced the same exact thing .. .. when people can't show enough empathy and can't spend a moment to search to see this is a real thing , . When they can't spend a moment to accept the truth . I don't have time for those people anymore ... the education we never had growing up but we have now in these wonderful teachers ..,its the true helper that finally got me to let go .. and going no contact
My mother is still someone that I spend very little time with because of my childhood. I can remember several years ago telling her we should just agree to disagree on an issue and she said “we’re not disagreeing”. I said “we disagree on that.” It’s just too exhausting!!!
I needed this SO much today. I am 60 and grew up in the Era of "don't speak until you are spoken to" and "children are to be seen and not heard". My Mom was a covert narcissist. After listening to you, Lisa, I realize my Mom was codependent and empathetic, as I am. My Mom was the one who did so much for her Mom. But it was never good enough. My Aunt was the favorite and the golden child. My sister definitely has narcissistic traits. I would do so much for her and my family thinking I could earn their love and respect. I would bend over backwards to please my family. My Mother in law and sister in law are also narcissistic and controlling. On both sides of my family, they manipulate, make me feel guilty, spread rumors and lies about me and my daughter, isolate us from family, church friends. I tried to tell my sister in law how I was offended by her daughter at Christmas, she shut me down, accused me of being unforgiving, bitter, resentful and selfish. My Father in law cussed me out. My husband actually backed me up when I got home and said they Shift blame, are in denial, don't listen, then attack. He too is codependent and empathetic. He does most of the work for his parents who are in their mid 80s. About 4 years ago, I put my foot down and told my in laws not to talk about my daughter, do not publicly embarras me or my daughter, to stay out of our private matters, and that they will never control me. There is drug addiction and even arrests on both sides of our families but these narcissistic women loudly spread lies, rumors, gossip about me and my daughter. My sister ghosted me years ago. It has hurt deeply but I know it was draining me and causing me too much distress. She constantly reminded me of my mistakes 40 something years ago, a small mistake like not knowing how to cook. My sister, sister in law, and mother in law are all false and are different at church and around people, then are hateful, condescending, manipulative, spread lies, mocking etc around me and my daughter. I agree. I refuse to live like this anymore!
I'm so sorry that you are surrounded by so many toxic people. It makes you feel insane. It sounds a lot like my ex's family system. My ex got into hard drugs and almost destroyed my son and myself, and instead of holding their brother accountable, they came after me for having the gaul to even say out loud that he was a drug addict. It's a seriously sick family when they are more worried about public perception than their grandson's mental and physical well-being. They thought that my even saying that he was a drug addict was worse than him BEING a drug addict. I look back and still don't know how I made it through even halfway sane.
You always save m for feeling alone. The endless explaning in these situations with a person with this behavior style is maddening. It requires such effort on my part to not fall into my pattern of not acknowledging how toxic this is
The Narcissist's theme song, as you said years ago: IT WASN'T ME! 🎼🎵🎶 The utter lack of roads to repair is one of the most absolutely damaging aspects of dealing with The Narc. Nothing ever gets better. Love You, LISA❤
Yes but this does not have any thing to do with thé réel islam...... Thé réel islam Respect thé women and honnor it.....but thé sociéty os thé one who humiliate women in thé name of islam witch wrong..... because islam does nothing to do with humiliating thé women
I am now stuck caring for an elderly toxic parent after living with this kind of abuse my entire life. I fear I won't be able to endure. I deeply regret not leaving when I had the chance
You still have a chance to save your soul. Put her in a nursing home for the aged . You will always be in a lose lose situation as long as you keep setting yourself on fire to keep her warm.. The reality is she has absolutely NO gratitude for you. You are servicing her as a slave to her being your master..
You have armed me with knowledge. Once I revealed that I had recorded conversations (one party consent state), and wouldn’t let them rewrite history, they flipped the script and called me the abuser! I also had screenshots, dates and times, and journal entries. These have helped me immensely in standing up for myself.
@@alainsoltura this was the most recent interaction with them. I was no contact for 5 months prior. After being called an abuser, I realized that this person won’t be held accountable or admit any partial fault. In the past, they denied and deflected, even told me that it wasn’t that big of a deal, didn’t respect repeated boundaries and even showed up to my house when I tried to enforce boundaries. Honestly in retrospect, they were employing DARVO then too. I was still on my learning journey and didn’t recognize what it was in the moment.
@@alainsoltura but as far as what they did differently when I would stand up for myself, they would deny, place themselves as the victim and try to rewrite historical events. That’s why I started saving screenshots, journal entries, recording without telling them. they would try and wait for a certain amount of time to pass, then claim something different happened. Or create stories altogether.
Lisa, I can't express how grateful I am that I found you 10 years ago. You are amazing, such an inspiration. I'm so glad you had the strength to survive the pain of everything you went through, and the mental fortitude to heal and become who you are now. Thank you, thank you, thank you, from the bottom of my heart for everything you are doing, and have already done, to help others along this path - you are like a healing voice in the wilderness, beckoning lost souls toward the light.
Lisa your explanation on why a narcissist is impossible to have a civil minded every day living disagreement with is empowering to those of us who are experiencing narcissistic abuse which almost everyone does at some time in their lives when at work or whatever.
This explains why in my marriage no disagreement ever has a resolution or mutual agreement. I'm allows wrong. The term used on me 99% of the time is " what's wrong with you" as a way to shut you down the conversation.
This resonates fully. This has also become common in the patient/ health care field. You must endure this and fight the manipulative people who hurt others in order to receive treatment. It shows how pathological it is when we as patients pay for insurance and still have to wade through the insidious quicksand. Thank you for your work. Love & light.
The narcissist accused me of narcissism when I no longer gave them what he wanted through resources and money. I was accused of stealing when all I did was give. I lossed a contract and was not able to fund their real estate project. I refuse to jeopardize my financial health to accommodate someone who does not want to take responsibility for their lives.
The circular conversations are also an exhausting form of gaslighting. It's an attempt on the narcs part to get you to give up & shut up. It reminds me of the zig zag an animal will do while trying to outrun a pursuit. An exhausting, avoidant gaslighting tactic to get the person who's confronting a wrong, to give up & not hold them accountable.
Wow. You just perfectly summarized and described my 44yr marriage to a narcissists and his narcissistic family. His mother was a real witch!' He was the parentified "golden child" as well as the youngest and only boy out of 4 children. Thank you so much for the enlightenment ✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️
Ps. I'm 62 years old and this describes perfectly how women were a abused and treated with "consent" from the outsiders who always had to butt their noses in (flying monkeys, Triangulation) ✨️✨️✨️
This video hit me hard, tje family dynamic with DARVO, your experience as a child with the gift to your mother brought up painful memories of when I would try to give gifts to my mother. On rare occasions she would actually like the gift but most of the time she would criticize it/me and get angry. I stopped giving and doing things for her and I'm seen as hateful. I no longer care because I have accepted that I will always be "the bad guy" in her eyes. That's HER opinion. Thank you much Lisa for all you do.🙏🙏🙏✌💜
My crucifixion will not be the resurrection of anyone.. Love yourself and walk away from anyone who is not good for your soul..." My alone feels so good. I'll have you only if you're sweeter than my solitude ". Peace and freedom awaits. ❤
I read your book, Lisa, am so sorry you had those painful, gut wrenching things happen. Pain, loss, longing, fear, wounds. I am thankful for how you now reach out to help and empower others to heal and grow, and educate about relationship problems and waking up, deciding, and changing your mind, body and spirit to welcome good things and repel the bad. God Bless you today. And every day. 🙏
My own daughter saw the abuse that the narcissistic partner did to me and she still takes up for him. She up holds his smear campaign against me. She also helps him set to me up so that I can't move on and keeps tabs on me as well.
She must have an issue with you , I would wander what the real problem is. I have the same issue with my son and I am becoming more and more aware of the why he acts the way he acts.When we are in a relation with an abuser we do not protect our children they are damaged and turn aga8nst us
Dear Lisa Thank you I do belong to your generation I'm 64 years old and only now starting to delve in those matters I don't know if my mom is narcissistic, but for sure is not from healthy family. Cause her father, least loved by me, ended life as a drunkard. And all that I heard FROM HER about my grandpa was total nastiness (she made me into parentified child in my teens). Most disgusting part of him I heard from her in my 50ties. Won't even tell that story hear. But in my 50ties I was in low contact with her (only seldom phone calls because of real living distance - different continents) Unfortunately, I got married to somebody similar in my case. About 10 +years ago my ex was diagnosed as full NPD by qualified professional. To say truth I'm tired living among not enough self conscious and not enough self aware people. Pitty, I'm starting so late. But finally I have hope at least for myself. Better later... I'm still thinking I was codependent, but not sure what I'm now.. Thank you for sharing pieces of your life with us Painful memories are still painful, but it is what makes us all more stronger and understanding for other people.
Thanks Lisa. Gosh I could so easily sit and have a tea or coffee with you and just chat 😊. Such a wonderful woman. Ive worked on resentment a lot, as-well and many other various areas including this one. But what is so so so sad, is when you realize you’re now gaining your independence back and separation from this, almost like a bird looking down from above, than realizing these people would treat you like this, and leave you in that horrible state of abuse your whole life. They wouldn’t even bat an eyelash at changing it to make you feel better. That really hurts. It makes the concrete even stronger for never wanting them around you or to see them again. Thanks so much for the video. 😊
I grew up with this because my narcissistic parents were both the only children of much older married mothers who didn’t want to have children 🤦♀️ it was hell on earth & then in my last relationship of sorts he used DARVO but by then I was already watching videos & was able to go gray rock on him 👩 finally after a ridiculous example of his denial I simply said, as if to a small child: It’s OK but just fix it… I heard him muttering in the kitchen, It’s not OK, as if he was insulted by my calling him on the lies like a mom. My opinion is that this type of behavior began with the mommy issues around the lack of separation or individuation & narcissists are simply not adults so trying to have a meaningful discussion with them isn’t going to be possible. Take back control & do not let them roll over you! No arguments but just imperative statements with real consequences as if you’re truly interacting with a preadolescent
Thank you! I needed this message and you’re right about not having the tools/ words and the support online years back, and no outlet to express truth. God always is there and I know he has helped through messages like yours. Thank you and God bless you.
My older sister did DARVO on me when we were very young. She would start fights or hurt me and then deny she did anything wrong. She would then smirk as I got in trouble.
Thank you so much Lisa , wow you are amazing and I’m so glad there is people in the world that sheds light to this such wicked and extremely painful and damaging behaviour. 100% right in everything you have said . You are a wonderful wonderful woman with a big heart ( thank you
You are so insightful. Thank you. Do you think people who are manipulate avoidants are also narcissistic, or do you think an avoidant still cares about humanity on some level? "Narcissist" is such a buzzword, it is bothersome. Thank you so much for your videos.
it always felt ugly in the years I spent w/a covert/grandiose narc frenemy. My Soul knew & tried to let me know but I ignored the discomfort. I was a sitting duck bc (boundary-less/codependent) of my traumatized, neglectful invalidating narc Mom. Yes, acclimating to disrespect, etc. Grateful for Lisa's videos & personal experience. Namaste Lisa!
A fantastic video, brimming with knowledge amd information. A reflection of the real life experience of dealing with a narc. DARVO is brutal and it takes a loooong time to even figure it out...decades, but the awareness almost miraculously clears the mind and starts the healing process, thinking straight for the first time, logical sensible, CLEAR
This has just really helped me. Recently what's been happening is that girls I don't even know out in the street and on the bus and things have been saying really accusatory things like "so that we can get away from this guy" or "away from this guy". It's all unprovoked. I don't want anything to do with them. I can understand if they've been abused by men and stuff but they don't have to take it out on me. I have my own issues like bereavement to deal with. Also the only reason I go out to coffee shops and things is that it helps with bereavement and to get out of a big, empty and quiet house. I don't care if there's girls there or not. It seems like they constantly misunderstand me, unless I'm completely paranoid now. This has been going on for a while, and it's really got to me now. Thanks for listening.
Can you take someone out with you to observe from a distance and let you know if people are actually saying these things about you? I have a friend son, who insists people say negative things about him or stare at him when he goes for walks and I don’t want to be dismissive, but I’m not entirely sure this is true. I think he’s becoming paranoid. I really mean that in a loving way not in a derogatory way. There are some vitamin and mineral deficiencies that can lead to paranoia like this. I hope there’s someone you trust that will be able to help you with this by either confirming or denying the negative comments from people in public.
@@hiddenhand6973 Thanks for your reply. So I’ve been away on holiday for a week and I really think this is just a regional thing. That only happened once when I was away. Don’t know if you believe in psychics but I had a reading when I was on holiday that I really feel gave me some healing. Also I’ve been reading about empaths and a lot of the struggles are suddenly making sense. I have a bit of hope now.
My mother tried that made your own bed trope on me too. Luckily I hadn't gotten pregnant so I left the marriage. My mother never wanted to see me again. I left town and had nothing more to do with family.
Interesting that “D” stands for “Denial” in your version of DARVO. I’ve seen “Deflect” used in other cases but either way, still such an exhausting tactic that functions to break us down and make us feel small and useless. It’s insane how many parts of a crazymaking conversations you can point to as perfect piece-by-piece of this methodology. We will not be silent anymore.
Interesting. Some people are trying to gain approval from someone who is never going to approve of them. It is like running a race with no finish line. Such people dispise those chasing them.
Its weird, you mentioned being told "you so sensitive " and " you make a big deal out of everything " and i can admit i have said this to my partner who i believe even without clinical evidence has NPD. But the truth of the matter is she is very sensitive which most narcs are and does make a big deal out of the smallest things which most narcs do. When i reflect back, i can honestly say that in large, i've never dismissed anything that was deemed as a big issue for her and most times i tried my best to help out with resolving any issues that arose. The thing is that a narc can and will make an issue out of everything and my belief is that some things arent always that serious and do not require as much energy as the narc will try to convince you it does. Its like if your not as bothered or as worried or as infuriated as the narc is , its perceived as if you dont care. This is a problem for me because the narc will then act as if you've wronged them for not caring as much as they do. Its a confusing dynamic and when i heard you mention what you said, it got me to thinking whether or not i am on the narc spectrum. I believe i am not but when you are always placed as the sole source of someones unhappiness, youu dont really kno what to think. I actually know im not, and yes i maybe flawed but i am almost 99.9 percent sure im not a narcissist. Wheeeew, awesome vid by the way....
I had the exactly same conversation with the my mom. I was 24 and was ready to kill myself. She told. “You wanted this. And fought for it. Go home and don’t come to me for help if you leave him”.
Out of curiosity, is DARVO a learned tactic? I mean, do we inherit the ability from our parent)s(/caregiver at an infant stage, or is it manifested gradually, then used once the perpetrator feels they have it 'down pat' ?
Look I'm going to tell you one thing. Take it however you want. It's all, It's all, but an illusion. I not realty. (real) That's exactly my point of view 🧘🏻♀️.
Anyone in this patterning sent to ydc's(youth detention centers) in childhood? I'm working all of this out and I'm trying to find someone talking about/relating to that specific piece. Maybe for validation, I'm not even sure. Maybe I can put some stuff out about it in the future.
Omg Lisa my mom was the same way! Now my husband is the same way…my mom always called me selfish and I could never understand because I would spend my checks getting her stuff for the house! I was only 15! My husband calls me selfish because he’s always up some woman’s ass! Omg
Im brand new here i have been deeply in love with a woman that i married in 2003 and she wanted to play a couple years later destroying our little family she then played acted out like she was 15 yrs old i was so shattered when she left i tried to commit suicide and was found the next morning and taken to the hospital, I raised our son and she is beautiful so she was getting and continues to get mens attention and she took advantage of that within months after she left then her and the guy has 4 kids and each time the babies were born she came to me and laid each child in my arms knowing that i would love the babies and she kept doing it then her and I had kept an active affair for the following 10 years then she destroyed that family she had and then bounced around from guy to guy and then found a guy on facebook and ended up getting pregnant right away with that guy and he tried to leave her and she came unglued and she really didnt know him that well and it was like she couldnt believe someone would leave her now here we are 18 years after she left me and her and i have always stayed close but shes at it again destroying her relationship actually married the guy had two children and shes destroying this family for a guy out of state that he is only her type because he is a 40 yr old that lives with his parents and she can manipulate him and control him she knows i have stuck by her after all the heart ache and so has the guy she had the 4 kids with and her current husband knows shes cheating and he is GETTING angry but hes still with her when she flips out she says things in front of everyone things that no one should know and she attacks by saying things that she knows will hurt any and all of us ...I NEED HELP I AM SO IN LOVE WITH HER AND HAVE BEEN FOR 26 YEARS AND I JUST CANT WATCH HER DO THIS YET AGAIN I am afraid someone is going to hurt her or worse and she tells me every single day that she loves me and i waited till last month when i told her i was going to move away from her she lost it and was a wreck she cried for days and finally after 18 years told me she should have never left me ... i ended up staying and sure enough the next day she flew out to see that guy out of state so her husband is pissed her other ex is a yes man and does whatever she wants right or wrong i am simply head over heel's for her when i know shes lying and i too am still married to her and i cant just leave because i love the children and they love me so much and looking back i can see that by laying each child in my arms to keep me around here i am 26 years in and i vowed to her dying mother i would protect and take care of her forever and then her mother died and im stuck with the vow of my marriage to her and the vow i promised her dying mother i love the children like they are my own SO WHAT DO I DO its easy to say get out and away from her but thats not easily done .. I know the new guy out of state isnt sustainable either so HELP ME I AM IN COUNCELING TO KEEP ME FROM SUICIDE
Shes a neigbhor who efysed tojust give me ny privacy. Its all i can do to walk to my car with my head held up high ..git no fruends left. They so judged me ....they als said negative..amd im like kets clarfued whats she sayong
I grew up in this abusive family. Unfortunately, Im still going through it to some extent & I struggle daily with some of these issues you have highlighted.
What is good way to teach your child about this, to notice and protect them, whilst being cautious not to alert or anger the other ex spouse who does this?
Truth! This is so validating. I'm just over 2 years free and honestly can't believe I put up with crap and lived like that for almost 16 years! But my childhood totally set me up for it
Imho many of the things described can be subject to opinions (ie blame shifting) except gaslighting: When someone is blatently denieing facts you know there is toxic manipulative intent. Keep strong boundaries with souch people.
I was just thinking you can tell a non-manipulative person they are manipulative and they will say to themselves, “Oh no I am manipulative, what can I do to get better?” And then you can tell a manipulative person they are manipulative and they will fight tooth and nail to attack you for saying that.
