[Enemy At the Gates] WW2 Snipers - Mosin vs Kar98k - "Pick One" Scenario Brief (Ep.7)

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Pick One 🔴 Live Discussion 🔴 Feb 20th, 2024 Tue 16:00 (4pm) CST
Special Guest Ian McCollum ‪@ForgottenWeapons‬
👉 [Option 1] Kar98k Zf39 sniper with a mix of 53x sniper (Match 196gr Ss.) and 10x (incendiary “observation” ammunition)
👉 [Option 2] Mosin Nagant PEM Sniper with suppressor (Bramit device) with a mix of 150x decreased velocity ammunition and 150x standard ammunition Yes we know it's not a PEM Sniper here, the PU sniper is a stand-in
VOTE HERE: www.youtube.co...
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⚔️SCENARIO⚔️: Winter, 1943, Stalingrad, Russia
- Disclaimer at the end of this situation brief -
It’s winter 1943, and you’re a German sniper on the Eastern Front. You’ve been sent on a special military operation to deal with a Soviet sniper problem and you’ve been in the vicinity doing reconnaissance. Your target is a young Soviet sniper who has been heavily featured as a Soviet hero sniper in their propaganda.
While you can return to German lines, you have been spending weeks in the field at a time, deep behind russian lines to target and eliminate the enemy sniper problem.
So you carefully craft a trap in the department store to destroy him and his observer. Finally from your hide, you see a pair of snipers inbound and you slowly target them. You are able to eliminate one of them while they were displacing, and observed that the other sniper had withdrawn... so hours later, you went to assess your kill.
The deceased soviet sniper has a rifle that you had only heard of: the Mosin Nagant PEM sniper with a Bramit device on the muzzle. A device that decreases the noise signature of the rifle… and it matches what intelligence reports had been suggesting: that Soviet snipers were very difficult to locate, presumably they were using NKVD's field manufactured "decreased-velocity" loads for their Mosin snipers with suppressors as well.
You bring the enemy sniper’s rifle with you as a trophy or a useful tool as you begin to exfiltrate with a bandolier of ammunition that… the Soviet sniper didn’t need anymore, but at that moment you freeze. The rumble of a Soviet armored column echoes in the streets and as you look over, a shot rings out, barely misses you, and you drop to the ground.
Enemy sniper in the area!
You are now forced to slowly crawl out of the vicinity to safety and can only carry one rifle with associated ammunition back to safety:
👉 1, the Kar98k Zf39 sniper with a mix of 53x sniper (Match 196gr Ss.) and 10x (incendiary “observation” ammunition)
👉 2, the Mosin Nagant PEM Sniper with suppressor (Bramit device) with a mix of 150x decreased velocity ammunition and 150x standard ammunition
Though you survived the sniper shot, it will likely take you 24 hours of “slow” travel to safely return to German lines.
Both rifles appear to be serviceable, especially with the intelligence reports on the other soviet sniper eliminating german troops with such deadly accuracy, and that your rifle was spared from damage. Which option will you choose to survive and fight another day?
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Disclaimer: This fictional scenario is loosely based on historical events that serve to convey a tactical situation for discussion. This fictional setting, characters and historical examples of this scenario brief do not reflect the views or positions of any commenters and associated entities.
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8 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 618

@9HoleReviews 6 месяцев назад

Vote here for your pick! www.youtube.com/@9HoleReviews/community Remember to comment on your choice!

@mrfish49el 6 месяцев назад

It makes no sense to switch away from a rifle you already know

@guyman7776 6 месяцев назад

Definitely. The only thing the Mosin does have for it is the rapport. You can definitely blend in more with a Mosin shooting, and with an old suppressor, than you shooting your Kar98 and that giving you away. But having a rifle that you don't know all that well, is asking for trouble. Can you even fix it if it fails you, like your own rifle? Most likely not.

@mrfish49el 6 месяцев назад

@guyman7776 Beyond that you're using an optic you don't know and have no time behind. If you're trying to get away better to try to slip away without having to shoot.

@JackManiacky 6 месяцев назад

Without dope that subsonic suppressed rifle isn't much use to a sniper. You have to stick with the known rifle.

@ForgottenWeapons 6 месяцев назад

@@JackManiacky Conveniently, the dope is actually written right on the body of the Bramit...

@stuartstuart866 6 месяцев назад

The idea would be to bring the Russian rifle back for examination and perhaps develop your own suppressor. More of a long game look at things.

@cageordie 6 месяцев назад

Take the suppressor off and pocket it. Take the rifle you know to actually use.

@jb8086 6 месяцев назад

My exact thoughts, possibly take the ammo so the lower velocity could be researched. I don’t see throwing down the rifle you know you can hit with.

@viperscot1 6 месяцев назад

exactly

@ramungopnek8333 6 месяцев назад

The correct answer

@9HoleReviews 6 месяцев назад

While we know to do this now thanks to RU-vid, your character in his 1943 knowledge does not know how to do this and is currently trying to exfil in the next 30 secs so you don't have the time to figure it out. -Bottom line, while I agree with you, this option is off the table as a solution. You have the only two options outlined above.

@herknorth8691 6 месяцев назад

@@9HoleReviews Awww.

@BattleChemist 6 месяцев назад

This isn't even a question... regardless of the suppressor and downloaded ammo for the mosin, the German sniper does not have familiarity with the rifle, the scope, or the ammo. He knows his rifle, scope, and ammo and the intricacies of shooting it. Trying to "learn" those of a new rifle while being hunted is virtually suicide.

@markmccoy2559 6 месяцев назад

I think the idea is that taking the mosin will accelerate the German sniper development to match the Russians. "Russian snipers were very hard to locate "....kinda makes you need to catch up.

@MarvinCZ 6 месяцев назад

@@markmccoy2559 This would theoretically help the sniper program, sure. But as someone who needs to save their life right now, probably using that rifle, the hypothetical betterment of the sniper program is of little value. Can't improve the sniper program if you're dead.

@sinisterthoughts2896 6 месяцев назад

Obviously take the rifle you know and trust, not an unknown quantity.

@durandil 6 месяцев назад

Totally agree

@PigSticker-wm2tq 6 месяцев назад

The one i zero'd lol

@jasonbloho8015 6 месяцев назад

Yea if I got 10 rounds off before dying I'd consider that successful

@faustovieira 6 месяцев назад

This would be the same as asking Henry to leave his M24 rifle behind and picking up a suppressed PSG-1. Your trusted rifle provides you with the best chance of keeping you alive.

@calebdoner 6 месяцев назад

The one you've got dope on. No question. It would be a more fair scenario if this hypothetical soldier had extensive experience with both rifles and knew their hold overs.

@alexglenn2122 6 месяцев назад

In a sniping situation, I can't imagine switching to a rifle you don't know the holds for.

@donh1572 6 месяцев назад

During the big wars, sniping was done at a much closer range. A silencer would give you a dramatic advantage

@sinisterthoughts2896 6 месяцев назад

But the rifle is an unknown. You wouldn't know it's zero, or any foibles it may have, whereas your k98 is your rifle. You know it's good, you know your holds, you trust it.

@foshizzlfizzl 6 месяцев назад

In any real war, the distance is very low. If you take the distances in Ukraine, the majority of sniper engagements are between 50 and 200m. Those propaganda Hollywood stories about 2,5km hits, are absolutely bs. 1st this is not even relevant in percentage compared to the close range enhancements. 2nd those kind of shots are also just playing and you won't take on a high value target at 2,5km... This is ridiculous. 3rd who is going to confirm your shots at over 2km? Your spotter with a 30x60 scope at that distance? 😂😂😂😂 I mean yeah the US Americans shot on "targets" in Iraq at those distances...for fun, without any relevance to their mission.

@lieutenantcoloneltanyavond8273 6 месяцев назад

This is an old WW2 suppressor. Iirc it uses rubber baffles which wear out rather fast. Also it would be a waste to NOT use it with conjunction with the subsonic ammo you would have, but then you don't have a clue where the gun hits with it. AND you don't have time to waste (or spare rubber baffles for that matter) to test it out. Nah, in this scenario Mauser is what you know. I would stick with it.

@donh1572 6 месяцев назад

@@lieutenantcoloneltanyavond8273 those baffles work great. Wipes tend to outperform many of the modern baffles we see today

@Blue_Raven. 6 месяцев назад

@@donh1572 he did not said it work worse than modern baffles he said it would wear out fast and *you dont have spare rubber baffles to replace it even if you have you would not want to waste it to find hold over for sub sonic 7.62x54R **even if you use it to find hold over still need to fire a few shots and a gun shot sound is still there it harder to detect sure but maybe soviet sniper who familiar with the sound of it could found you *you can swap the rubber baffles around to sqeeze a few suppressed shot out of it maybe little louder you doesn't know that you are a german sniper even if you figure it out it still just a few shots **you dont need to do that with K98 bc you know you gun is zeroed and you fimiliar with the bullet trajectory so you will make no sound signature untill you actually shot at someone and you can just relocate after every shot you are trained sniper you surely have quick or hard to detect escape route for your position so in conclusion i think K98 would be a better option thank you for coming to my ted talk

@willardcupp1141 6 месяцев назад

Take the suppressor off and keep the suppressor ammo as well. They are important military intelligence. Keep your Kar 98 that you know and have scope dope for.

@johnyricco1220 6 месяцев назад

I was watching a Russian youtuber and he said the suppressor was at the time a state secret. Recon troops and partisans issued with it were ordered to prevent them falling into enemy hands. Taking these home as souvenir would’ve been a very serious offense.

@CosmolineDaydream 6 месяцев назад

There’s nothing to talk about. One rifle I’ve zeroed and handled maintenance on myself. The other is a total mystery. Doesn’t matter which might be incrementally better-I only have reps on the K98 in this scenario. Assuming equal familiarity and controlling for the variable of service history, I like the PU or PEM rig slightly more.

@mangofett927 6 месяцев назад

One thing that might influence my pick is how I am dressed. If I'm in a blatant German uniform, then things get a little complicated. In this situation, with a tank rolling up on my position looking for me, my primary objective is now to fall back and possibly exfil. But back to my point, if it's possible, that sniper I eliminated might be wearing some kit I can throw on over my own to camoflage myself as a Soviet sniper and make it so that I can move more easily without the fear of getting spotted. If I can manage to do that, then I'll leave the 98 behind and leave with the mosin. After all, once I'm back behind friendly lines I can requisition another Kar98 before going back out. This is of course assuming that I would have the opportunity to don the uniform in the first place and didn't have to displace right away. The biggest factor in this scenario for me is the enemy armor, that basically makes it so that I can't effectively do my job without getting taken out. My pick is the mosin, purely for the possibility of disguising myself and safely extracting myself from the area.

@V3RTIGO222 6 месяцев назад

Honestly this is a completley unacknolwedged fact of the scenario, you don't need to shoot in order to escape.

@topbreak38 6 месяцев назад

A little war crime. Perfectly normal, perfectly healthy behavior . . .

@V3RTIGO222 6 месяцев назад

@@topbreak38 Geneva was not implemented yet, no? Plus, if you're just escaping the front without being apprehended and not killing anyone, there are worse things to do.

@topbreak38 6 месяцев назад

@@V3RTIGO222 the first Geneva Convention was in 1864 (long before WWII, no?) and being executed as a spy for wearing an enemy uniform was a thing long before Geneva.

@V3RTIGO222 6 месяцев назад

@@topbreak38 No need to be rude, I didn't realize the initial accord was devised that long ago. As for executing or mistreating snipers, you can either be a German sniper or disguised as a Russian sniper... If you get seen, let alone caught, you are more certainly going to have more issues as a German sniper. Upon further investigation, the Rome Statuate to address prosecution to of individuals carrying out attacks in enemy uniform is addressed, which was adopted in the 1990s. In other words, using an enemy uniform to evade capture an explicitly not carry out attacks is not a warcrime. Regardless, being captured or seen or executed is a far more immediate threat to the possible prosecution by a wartime court.

@oskar6661 6 месяцев назад

"You went into battle with an unproven weapon?" - Remington.

@user-gp9xv1tl7r 6 месяцев назад

Col. Patterson done messed up that day

@wyattterrell 6 месяцев назад

I’m goin mosin, after watching robski make impromptu subsonic field ammo was just too cool for school!

@wolflegion_ 6 месяцев назад

Thing is, whilst the Mosin would be a cool trophy and maybe even a nice tool to have; you still need to extract. I have to assume a German sniper knows his German rifle. I wouldn’t risk using unfamiliar kit when your life depends on it.

@kunzilla 6 месяцев назад

Mosin since "I'm" in enemy territory, the notion is that the sound of firing the Mosin should at least sound friendly, AND it's more difficult to locate after the firing.

@sinisterthoughts2896 6 месяцев назад

No real difference in how they sound.

@AdventuresofaManiac 6 месяцев назад

Different round different sound. @@sinisterthoughts2896

@nirfz 6 месяцев назад

I'd argue that on the eastern front with the heavy artillery and tank fire almost constanly, it's so loud that nobody can distinguish between "enemy and friendly" rifle fire sound anyways. And due to the noiselevel i would also argue that the supressor is of little advantage in the given scenario. I think getting away is the main target, and for that you won't fire much. But if you do, 1 shot per position. And for that, ones own zeroed optic is more important than even the familiarity of the rifle itself i think. When you have to make a shot and don't know the zero or the handling of the scope, what is it good for... And finding out zero with one shot per position or trying to zero while being hunted is the worst idea ever.

@kunzilla 6 месяцев назад

true. however, even if i do miss the first couple of shots and that's a big if, a seasoned sniper will know how to make adjustments either on the scope or the angle. and when escape successfully, the weapon can be studied by our own intelligence agency or weapons experts.@@nirfz

@kunzilla 6 месяцев назад

then still the mosin since it's a new enemy weapon. bring it back to study is also a win.@@sinisterthoughts2896

@DieLuftwaffel 6 месяцев назад

Interestingly, if memory serves me right, the Allerberger mentioned in the vid actually started sniping with a captured Mosin. He wasn't initially deployed as a sniper but took up the captured rifle and impressed superiors enough for a trip to sniper school.

@kevinhekers2380 6 месяцев назад

Correct he was a machine gunner if i remember correctly but while he was recovering from wounds sustained in battle , he picked up a mosin sniper from a weapons dump and trained with it impressing his superior officer thus starting his sniper career

@mattparker9726 6 месяцев назад

I'm going with the Mosin, because of it's optic. I hate the ZF scopes. Additionally, I don't want to have to use sound masking, or terrain features to obfuscate my location while on the move behind lines.

@marholdt1731 6 месяцев назад

Major flaw with this winter scenario, is the rubber wipes in the Bramit suppressor are only good for about 20 shots in winter conditions. There isn't enough to go against the rifle "we" as the scenario soldier have familiarity with to change for it.

@spldrong 6 месяцев назад

If i was in WW2 with my scoped 1903 and came across a PRS competition 6.5 Creedmoor bold gun , supressed, with a case of handloads and a Nightforce ATACR with a TREMOR 3 reticle.... in this senario, i would still grab MY gun, the gun i know.

@ryanjones4917 6 месяцев назад

If you can remove the suppressor to take it back for R&D and keep the rifle you know, it would make sense to do that. Given the current circumstances, you probably don't want to take any shots so just taking the Russian package back as is for exploitation makes sense as well. In the end, I would probably take the Russian packege back for it's intelligence/weapons development value. If you had to take a shot the suppressor and subsonic ammo would be invaluable given the situation even if you weren't intimately familiar with the rifle. It's a bolt action rifle, you could probably figure it out pretty quick.

@sinisterthoughts2896 6 месяцев назад

To be fair, as a german sniper, would you be able to tell the difference between the sub loads and the supers? Also know the holds and zero for the unfamiliar rifle and ammo?

@ryanjones4917 6 месяцев назад

@@sinisterthoughts2896 Not sure if there would be markings to distinguish, but either way the suppressor will make a difference. My decision is mostly based on the intelligence/ weapons development value of the weapons. That may serve your country much more than smoking a few more Russians. Given the circumstances and just how out numbered you are now as well as the disparity in force (presence of armor). I would be purely in E&E mode and try to avoid taking any shots at all. A snipers trade craft is at least as important as their marksmanship skills. In this situation I am going to try to remain unseen, take no shots, move as quickly as prudence allows.

@lieutenantcoloneltanyavond8273 6 месяцев назад

Germans had their own suppressors tho... Nothing new to see in Bramit tbh.

@johnyricco1220 6 месяцев назад

@@lieutenantcoloneltanyavond8273 The German suppressor was a copy of the Bramit, which at this point was still a closely guarded secret. Not because it was the best suppressor, but because it was cheap and effective and the Germans were not aware it was in extensive use.

@vladimirpecherskiy1910 6 месяцев назад

@@johnyricco1220 Well, how exactly Germans can not be aware it was in extensive use? You can not anything in a front lines for more then couple of month, that would not be known to other side in details.

@olwheelman5799 6 месяцев назад

I've been waiting for another of these videos for two years, I am SUPER EXCITED.

@Jargolf86 6 месяцев назад

Kar 98k. For ALL Reasons avaible. I am trained and experienced on it, i can trust it, i know exactly the Zero.

@Winnie_Grett 6 месяцев назад

On your rifle yes. Not on everyone.

@karlheinzvonkroemann2217 6 месяцев назад

The scope is also made by Zeiss (Hensoldt) - much brighter and clearer glass

@Winnie_Grett 6 месяцев назад

Please explain to me how trained you are on this rifle. Where did you use this rifle so that you can speak of a qus formation? I am German and was lucky enough to be able to get to know this rifle and its features. Where did you find out about that?

@karlheinzvonkroemann2217 6 месяцев назад

@@Winnie_Grett You trained for on the sniper version or just a K98k? He's speaking for/as the German sniper in this scenario, not for himself. Verstehen?

@Winnie_Grett 6 месяцев назад

@@karlheinzvonkroemann2217 was macht das für einen wesentlichen Unterschied? Ja, ich verstehe dich sehr gut.

@williamflowers9435 6 месяцев назад

Chosin Reservoir Scenario M1 Garand vs PPSh-41 (or PPS-43) Your position has been overrun by multiple waves of Chinese troops. You’re the lone survivor. You must make it back to friendly lines, avoiding the enemy at all costs.. If you do run into the enemy, do you want stoppin’ powah or volume?

@509Gman 6 месяцев назад

Not even fair, maybe if you make it an M2 carbine.

@jmullner76 6 месяцев назад

Clint Smith enters the chat...

@andrewforward3812 6 месяцев назад

just to say. The German special troops did have supressors on K98. Made by Mauser especially for the Brandeburger's. There are pictures around. I've the K98 for the supressor, but unfortunately not the supressor. It was based on the Gewehrgranatgerät base with a supressor on top, instead of the grenade barrel.

@uummmnocoolnames 6 месяцев назад

I'd drop the 98k and keep the Mosin* for its strategic value. In this scenario, your 1st priority is to break contact and make it back to friendly lines, so the less you have to shoot the better. Knowing the quirks of your 98k isn't as much of a factor, especially if all you need is a few close shots to keep people's heads down; lethality is no longer the goal here, survival is. The suppressor could help to also not draw undue attention, but its main value is as a strategic asset - getting it back to reverse engineer it could prove far more valuable than simply winning a sniper duel. *If I've got time, I'd detach the suppressor and bring it with me and keep the 98k. The most important thing is getting the suppressor back

@Foxy-ie9rt 6 месяцев назад

I had the opportunity to compare my cousin's Mosin Nagant PE with my KAR98k with ZEISS Zielsechs. Both are very good rifles, but if I had to choose just one, I always go for the KAR98k. The ZEISS with its 6x magnification and the clarity of the scope image is always a much better choice than the PE scope in my view.

@Edge51 6 месяцев назад

I would stick with the K98k because I would already know the DOPE of the rifle. I do not think I would have the time or availability to DOPE the rifle in the field. Making hits with what I have will be more important and a miss could cost me my life.

@lardomcfarty9866 6 месяцев назад

Something to keep în mind, a lot of german snipers were very well familiarized with the mosin as the german sniper program at the beginning of the war was underdeveloped. Many german snipers used mosins

@509Gman 6 месяцев назад

But they didn’t have subsonic ammo to train on, therefore negating the suppressor.

@andrewstoll4548 6 месяцев назад

Is there source material to support this? I'd think the K98s would be better rifles.

@lardomcfarty9866 6 месяцев назад

@@andrewstoll4548 Sepp Allerberger's book is one source, I am sure more exist.

@GoatFiddler 6 месяцев назад

Option 1...but only if it makes you feel better. As the scenario is set in the winter of 1943 in Stalingrad and being that you're Major Konig in this video, you'd know that you and everyone else had already been encircled by the Russians at least a month earlier (being that Paulus's surrender was on Jan the 29th of 1943). You'd have also noted your decreasing hold on Stalingrad itself by this time and that there'd been no relief effort at all (none that you'd heard of that is). So pick up the gun you know (option 1) if you believe it will help you on your 24 hour crawl back to the beleaguered pocket you came from. As General Paulus (at this time) sent you on this extremely ill timed and completely pointless mission, try and stay on his good side as he's obviously lost it. Who knows, you may end up being his chauffeur or valet in East Germany after the war instead of being shot, starving to death or ending up in a gulag for many years. Good luck!

@Duskraven67 6 месяцев назад

As everyone is stating below; sticking with the equipment you know would be paramount. Not only do you know the rifle to be reliable, but you also understand its ballistics implicitly. Not only does the 7.62X54R round behave slightly differently than 8mm Mauser, in this scenario, you would have no training and understanding of just how much your aim would need to change using the reduced capacity loads and suppressor. This means that if you needed to take a shot on your way to ex-fil, it would likely miss stealing away those precious seconds you need to stay alive.

@precisiongaming8776 6 месяцев назад

In this scenario I think the obvious choice for a sniper would be to keep his own rifle after all picking up a rifle that you don't know important information such as what it is currently zeroed at and other various important characteristics of the rifle like wear on the barrel etc. Also uses different ammo which will of course affect where and how you shot it and uses a different scope thus you're clearly not likely to be as proficient with this alternative rifle. Additionally with the unfamiliar muzzle device, scope and other different unfamiliar parts you're probably going to be less proficient at maintaining the rifle as well. On top of all this the gun could have issues like the glass in the optic could have broken from being dropped or the optic could be dirty preventing its use, also maybe the rifle was having cycling issues due to being dirty. There are a number of additional real world risks from picking up a rifle off the ground assuming you might need to use it soon after picking it up before you can check for any issues.

@rjoetting7594 6 месяцев назад

It all depends on if I'm a German or Russian, I will take the rifle that I am familiar with. But if it was me there, I'd Grab the Mosin, I have one that shoots exceptionally well,(so I'm more familiar with it) and I have only owned one Mauser a 33/40, and it was horrendous to shoot, very loud and uncomfortable to shoot. SHTF scenario I've grown up using a model 94 Winchester 30 wcf, so that is my go to rifle. (60 +) Grab it and my Lee loader and go.

@ronrobertson59 6 месяцев назад

It doesn't matter if you're captured with ether sniper rifle you're going to be shot since snipers rarly if ever because prisoners in possession of a sniper rifle or other sniper gear. Even the German snipers patch got you shot. (I own both rifles) I would take the Mosin because of the ammo lay out.

@geistwulfuser-yy2id4gl6x 6 месяцев назад

Mosin And yes i own a 1935 hex. Tow m39s one with a sig bar. and one with a b barl.and svd scope Geist Wulf

@TingusPingusDingusRingus 6 месяцев назад

As someone who shoots PRS, you go with the rifle you already know, the optic you already know, as well as the ammo you already know. You nave no idea what the drop is on the 7.62x54R ammo, nor do you know how the windage hold is impacted by the rifling in the barrel. You don't know any of your approximate holds for elevation on the Mosin scope. You don't know how functional, or non-functional that ammo is due to how it was kept prior to your finding of it. Taking the Mosin is a gamble not worth it in all respects.

@christopherfly9374 6 месяцев назад

I'm glad you mentioned Sepp Allerberger. In his memoirs he detailed some unfortunate things that happened to German snipers who were captured with Mosin sniper rifles. Stalingrad being a particularly brutal battle, our guy might be aware of the danger of being caught behind enemy lines with a Soviet rifle. As much as I'd want to take the Mosin, I'm going to keep the Kar98 and try to get back. Even if I'm captured I stand a much better chance of survival with my own rifle.

@adrianmcmahon5731 6 месяцев назад

Take the Moisin, no reson to use it on the exfil unless absolutely necessary as being unseen going in and out would be secind nature to an experienced sniper and laying low and not firing at all would be preferable to taking on tanks with supporting infantry of unknown numbers in the area.

@markall8641 6 месяцев назад

Mosin rifle with PU and suppressor as you have to get back to your lines. and maybe having to kill someone on the way that might take 24hrs.... I want more ammo and a quieter weapon. I think the 98K could be a nicer rifle, but stealth is needed and you dont have that at the least I would take the suppressor.

@WardenWolf 6 месяцев назад

While I agree the Mosin is the better sniper due to its better scope and overall accuracy, I believe the German soldier should keep his own rifle because he's familiar with it.

@kirkstinson7316 6 месяцев назад

Better scope and accuracy? I'll give it that the Russian scope was more easily adjusted but magnification and field of view goes to the German scope hands down.

@tommygi7505 6 месяцев назад

I learned that one of your great heroes of the Vietnam War, Charles Mauwhinney, has died. Marines used Winchesters in Vietnam, later came Remington M40, I still have a Winchester used by Air Force snipers in the 80s, hello from Italy.

@brushwolf 6 месяцев назад

Chuck Mawhinny passed away?!

@tommygi7505 6 месяцев назад

@@brushwolf yes 😥🙏

@brushwolf 6 месяцев назад

@@tommygi7505 Wow. I heard it from you first.

@jorgamund07 6 месяцев назад

Can't justify switching from the rifle you know to the one you've never fired. Only plus aide I'd aee is having more ammo with the mosin, not even the suppressor. But since you're still dealing with an enemy sniper, you're going to worry about the first shot, not a volume of fire in a sustained fight.

@iflycentral 6 месяцев назад

I remove the suppressor if possible for study when I return to my lines, however, I retain my service rifle for the trip out as I am more familiar with it both in terms of manual of arms as well as ballistic performance.

@Lintary 6 месяцев назад

Considering the reputation this sniper had I am going to assume that his rifle is likely going to be in good condition as well as the munitions he carried. The Drop might have however made it so that the zero on the rifle is gone, so that is a potential concern. However seeing I am behind enemy lines and chances are because 1 got away the enemy is likely to be informed about my presence in the area. With these factors in mind I would take the mosin rifle and ammo, I will have more ammo available which is not likely going to make the biggest difference, but it is nice to have and I am more likely to acquire more in this area. Also using this rifle I could confuse the enemy when I am shooting as they might not realize it is one of their own rifles being used against them, a small potential edge. Finally as this is a device that we only heard rumours about, it would be of utmost interest to command and intelligence services so returning with it would be of overall value.

@Grouuumpf 6 месяцев назад

The more I think about it, the harder it is. My first reaction was "better keep the rifle I know", with the caveat that I would just take a a few subsonic ammo and the can for Intel. But at the same time, for an exfiltration, having a suppressed rifle could be a big help... As for knowing the rifle, someone skilled enough to be tasked with hunting the top Russian sniper won't have too much difficulties figuring out how to operate a Mosin. He would probably already have handled one at some point, and the scopes have the same reticle and zoom I think I'd go with the 91/30. Trying to escape, I won't need to take a shot at 500m, but I may need to take out a sentry within 100m Though I wouldn't bother picking up ALL the ammo. 300rnds of 7,62x54r, when I need to be fast and quiet? No thanks. 50-60 subsonic and 2-3 clips of regular will do fine

@bullpupgaming708 6 месяцев назад

I would say the K98K because 1. Length and 2. Training/familiarization because you know, holds, in's and out's of your rifle and it is probably built to you exact personal specifications.

@jakesim9510 6 месяцев назад

I’m taking that 91/30 PEM with Brahmin, a suppressor is a game changer as detection is way less and alone behind enemy lines with someone hunting me? Stealth is key. Been in same situation in Philippines and the suppressor on a bolt action can and will save your life when you don’t have a choice but to open fire

@terrybailey9621 6 месяцев назад

Mosin because it is still extremely effective and has the bonus of being intel for the guys back at the line. Mostly the suppressor because it can be reverse engineered. Now back at the line either get another k98k sniper or keep running the pem.

@marke942 6 месяцев назад

This really comes down to whether you value your own life more... Take the KAR98 you are familiar with... Or whether you do the best thing for "the cause" and capture enemy technology (the suppressor and ammo). I think as an elite sniper, i would be able to handle the unfamiliar bolt action rifle and scope well enough to justify the risk involved in capturing this tech. Having the Soviet rifle may even be advantageous to partially conceal your identity from the Soviets as you exfil.

@harryspeakup8452 6 месяцев назад

If I had equal familiarity and training with both I would take the Mosin. In the scenario I have to assume I have no experience with the Mosin and am very familiar with, and effective with, the 98K. So even though the Mosin is in theory better for the situation, the training consideration overrules that, and I keep my familiar 98K. It's zero'd for me, and that's priceless. Yes, there could be an intel advantage in recovering the enemy's suppressor and ammo, but that's of no benefit if I don't get back.

@nsob8897 6 месяцев назад

Ive fired a kahr 98 and had to massage my jaw for a couple of days after holding my face against the stock (obviously) in the wrong way. Never had the chance to shoot a mosin. However, i suppose if i were able to weigh the pros and cons and didnt think my superiors would have me shot for taking the mosin..id grab that. But having trained with the kahr (and needing to make a quick decision) i would certainly have just tossed the mosin and crawled out with my familiar rifle. Gonna have to say kahr 98 with very little time to pick a weapon and bugger on outta there. Theres always a chance you get a gun off of your enemy that has issues that are only known to the guy who doesnt need it anymore and you wind up running off with something that will get you in the same place as that guy. I say go with the gun you know unless youve had time to practice on captured weapons of the enemy. The legendary barret would be awesome until youre in a hurry and find out too late that you never learned how to use it.

@oldblindy5625 6 месяцев назад

A soldier from that time would keep his issued and known rifle. From a practical standpoint id take the pm. Close engagement distances in a city, sound suppression is very important here and evasion is your main focus. Added bonus is the tech intel. Would be a much more difficult decision if the only available ammo was subsonic and a sniper is hunting you. Then your issued rifle would be only choice if engagement was nearly unavoidable. Your main focus is evasion without detection in an urban environment. One commenter mentioned stealing soviet gear to blend in. That would be a good idea if possible.

@1boortzfan 6 месяцев назад

As a German sniper/observer I think I would be inclined to take the Moisin Nagant due to the intelligence that could be gathered from it. As a sniper I could always get another Kar 98 when I get back behind my own lines.

@brittoncrafton9117 6 месяцев назад

Definitely taking the rifle I’ve trained with, qualified on, and taken lives with in combat over a war trophy that I’ve never fired.

@SpartanMFP 6 месяцев назад

Kar98k.

@Phantom_Aspekt 6 месяцев назад

I'm going with the Mauser, not only because I would have trained with it and known everything about the rifle, but because I could take the Bramit Device off the Mosin Nagant, stow it in a pocket and bring it back for intelligence, if I'm not in the position to do that then too bad, I'm keeping the rifle I trained with, not an unknown tool with subsonic ammo I haven't used before messing up any shots I may need to take.

@SphygmosProductions 6 месяцев назад

Used to own a real PU sniper and currently have a Swedish M41b sniper which has a very similar 4x scope to what the Germans would have had on their sniper rifles. No experience with a PEM or a K98k sniper. I would choose the K98k for the optics. The Ajack 4x my Swede has is very nice and I believe the Germans were renowned for their optical quality and manufacturing at the time. I've never used a PEM scope so I can't comment on the quality or usability. The scope on the PU is rugged, but also felt somewhat crude from memory. Then again the PEM scope is pretty different from what I've read. Also the weight savings of 88 rounds versus 300 plus the suppressor. I'm no Rambo. And my final reason, stick with what you know. I feel like spending countless hours behind a rifle and becoming intimately familiar with it only to throw it away for something that you don't even know is better would be a huge mistake. Maybe the ballistics of the new gun and ammo are so far off of what you're used to that you'd have to relearn them. Something like that could get you killed.

@Cloudstrife112233 6 месяцев назад

In that immediate situation, i stick with what i know. An unfamiliar rifle is going to get me killed, even if it does have a suppressor. Now, if youre just asking which i would choose if i knew the zero on both rifles and was familiar with both actions and their operation, then I'd take the Mosin. You have a way to minimize your sound and since youre behind enemy lines, there are more chances to resupply off of any enemies you take out on your way back.

@lieutenantcoloneltanyavond8273 6 месяцев назад

The one i can reliably hit with: Mauser. No question. The only thing going for Mosin in thos scenario is suppressor and subs, but i wouldn't know the holds anyway - and i don't have time for testing. Which makes it pretty much worthless. Also, i'm plenty sure Bramits use rubber wipes which gives them limited lifespan, large portion of which might already be used up.

@briang530 2 месяца назад

To play devils advocate for the "keep what you know crowd": This seems urban, so likely sub 300m engagements and there's an armoured column that is close enough to require exfiltration as well as enemy snipers. Ideally we want to get out of there quickly and without shooting. This is an exfil mission and hopefully not a counter sniper mission. Hopefully we have well-planned and concealed exfil routes. In this case we can perhaps place less importance on things like DOPE, confidence in the zero, and outright long range accuracy. Therefore we have the choice between: 1. A suppressed bolt gun with 150 rounds of relatively quiet ammunition that's less likely to give away your position in the case of a chance contact that needs to be removed from your route. It has a relatively good (for the time) 3.5 power optic that we hope has at least a decent battle zero for 300 yrds with the lower velocity ammo. We know that the PUs BDC won't properly compensate for the quiet ammo though, but ultimately this might not matter at 300 yards or less with that ammunition. It probably wouldn't matter at all with regular 54 R where we know that off of a 300 yard zero our POI will be about 9-10" higher at 25 yds. We can't be sure with this new ammo though. We can maybe infer that we're on for line as it is unlikely that this new and relatively secret equipment would have been in the hands of a rookie. We also have 150 more rounds of regular 54R available although how much ammo we take is a question with 300 rounds being about 15 lbs of weight as well as the potential for the (hopefully unclipped) ammo in bandoliers to make more noise and potentially create a challenge to moving or crawling. Finally, snipers gather Intel as an additional task, and you can bet that our bosses want this stuff. 2. We keep our bolt gun that we know intimately. It has an also pretty good (for the time) 4 power optic that is a bit better for proper sniping but maybe not as good for quicker close engagement. We probably have good DOPE on it as well and confidence-in it out to 600+ yards. We can definitely engage further with confidence but also with much less stealth. (If it was a zf41 At this point we don't really want to engage at all though. It's a tough call, but with limited information, and assuming that RTB was within my orders, I'd likely take the mosin based on the ability to engage close and quiet and getting to capture the tech. With a column and enemy snipers nearby, taking a shot at something that's further away than I could likely hit with the mosin is contrary to the task at hand of the exfil. OTOH if my primary mission was to stay in the vicinity and eliminate enemy snipers, and the exfil was simply getting to a new position or a safe hide, then I'd definitely keep the Kar, and pocket the device and some ammo (and maybe cache the rest of the enemy equipment for later).

@r2crowseye 6 месяцев назад

As familiar as you are with the Kar98, I say take the Mosin with a potential Wunderwaffen.

@simlucien 6 месяцев назад

“The previous owner died suddenly” 😂

@nirfz 6 месяцев назад

My answer would be: Keeping the familiar rifle. (and take the device with me to bring it back for investigation or copying) Reasoning: From the books i read and the little i talked to someone who went through sniper training, the most important thing for a sniper is to not be found. And that's without even firing a shot. So i would argue that in the given scenario, the amount of ammo is of no concern. Another thing, i at least remember reading as very important is to not fire more than 1 time from the same position for the same reason. (to not be found due to risking muzzle fire to be seen or if quiet enough people who were alarmed by the first shot now listening closely and watching) The mentioned Sepp Allerberger even has a drastic story (+ photo) about that in the book and Carlos Hathcock used that rule too. (apart from one occasion described in the book about him) So in that regard the supresor isn't going to change the game that much: with only 1 shot and people not being prepared/alarmed to listen carefully. And then we have to take into account that this is taking place "at the front". That would mean the supressor is even less important as the eastern front was heavily dominated by *loud* artillery and tank fire. I would argue, so loud, that nobody can pinpoint a single rifleshot among all the noise anyways. No matter if that single shot is slightly supressed or not. I have not handled either of the scopes, but i would also think that the almost non existing advantage the supressor gives, is easily countered by the unfamiliarity of the scope. What's the zero, how do i operate it... Things you know of your own rifle.

@gluesniffingdude 6 месяцев назад

Given that we have already completed part of our mission, which is counter-observation and suppression of enemy sniper forces (we have eliminated one enemy sniper already), at this point I'd leave with the Mosin. My objective, with a hidden sniper in the area, as well as being caught out in the open, would be primarily to escape the area and not necessarily locate and eliminate the enemy, following which we can start exfiltrating back to friendly forces. The suppressed rifle isn't JUST a trophy, but a potential intelligence break, and capturing one might allow your fellow snipers to start developing similar scratch-built counterparts even in the field for your own rifles. Since the mission is now primarily one of survival and disengaging from the enemy I think the tradeoff of having to carry a rifle with unknown zeroing is worth making.

@grahampalmer9337 6 месяцев назад

Take your own rifle & ammunition. It's the setup you are familiar with. Remove the Mosin sight. Remove the bolt for 'losing' somewhere. Remove & pocket the silencer. Pocket some low velocity rounds & lose all the rest.

@nicholassuehrcke3484 6 месяцев назад

Grab the Mosin and get out of there. You won't get another chance to get that loadout and if it's a dud or no longer suitable you can always get another German rifle. You don't want to get into a shootout with the guy who is targeting you because he already knows exactly where you are and you don't know where he is. Being quiet is massive advantage in an urban sniper scenario and any practical difference between the rifles is just academic. You don't wanna risk your life every time you fire just to maybe hit targets at 300 meters or more with the Mauser. You can learn the basic holds for out to 250m with the ammo you got from your friend in two range sessions. You can re-manufacture the subsonic rounds using other captured ammo and a few basic tools. I believe you wouldn't need a specific seating tool from 7.62x54R, you could probably use the same as you already use for 8mm. You don't need match ammo, it's Stalingrad and the subsonic doesn't allow long range shooting anyway. If you needed you could probably make new baffles from old tires too. Please shoot the basic MAS 36 on the course guys!

@cryptomnesiac 6 месяцев назад

I can't answer, just the prospect might turn me into a German sniper and I am now frozen with fear, lol

@exodusz19 6 месяцев назад

The use of sub sonic rounds will change the ballistics (namely drop and drift) so dramatically that the choice to experiment with those while your life is on the line is unquestionably a poor decision. Alternatively, if we had the knowledge we know now, that choice may be different, but the heat of the moment tilts the balance in favor of your known system.

@jonc2914 6 месяцев назад

Love these videos so much more than your typical shooting to range ones. Your g3 2 parter was the best!

@ak74auto 6 месяцев назад

From an intelligent standpoint, bringing the Nagant, suppressor, and ammo back would be useful. From a practical standpoint, taking a rifle that’s zeroed and has been trained on makes more sense. Personally, I would risk safety to bring back the Nagant/suppressor/ammo back to my S-2 for intelligence purposes.

@mikeingeorgia1 5 месяцев назад

I’d choose the rifle I’d already been using in this scenario, unless I’d been sent specifically on a mission to retrieve one of those Mosin rifles. If I couldn’t carry the whole Mosin, I’d do my best to damage it so it couldn’t be used again and then slither away

@NikolausLife 6 месяцев назад

I think in the circumstance you need to lean on the equipment you know well over something that is shiny and new. The quieter Mosin might be very useful for getting back to friendly lines if I make contact, but I'm also a highly trained sniper, and I know no shot, is much quieter than a suppressed shot.

@brandonwilliams6942 6 месяцев назад

I would presume that now faced with a survival escape using the rifle that you zeroed, trained on, and have scored your kills with would be the smartest route to take. On top of the fact the Mauser is a more compact package and would offer a slight upper hand in an urban environment.

@Tolandur 6 месяцев назад

having shot some early suppressor development designs and they are far from being as effective as modern suppressors... even with sub loads..... that TINY gain would never offset the drawbacks of using an unfamiliar rifle with unknown ballistics....... people seems to have this notion that the german sniper would have to fire hundreds of rounds to get back to his own lines...... thats not how a trained sniper would exfil ffs.... they are/were masters of E&E and would probably never be noticed by the enemy..... the only time he would fire his rifle is if it was the absolute last resort.... so keep the mauser and if time permits it remove the suppressor from the mosin or stash the rifle for later retrieval.... if not just smash the optic against the closest hard object and run......

@Ulani101 6 месяцев назад

Had I been in that situation, I expect that I would stick with what I knew, not take something I didn't know.

@wolf1562 6 месяцев назад

While I normally would not defer from my issued weapon given the scenero and time period I would take the Mosin. More ammunition and the option for surpressed I think are worth the trade off. Not to mention if I survive this encounter the knowledge to be gained from actually having the soviets technology I think would be extremely beneficial.

@prfwrx2497 6 месяцев назад

My gut says take the Kar98K only due to the merit of "I'd actually zero that thing personally and I know my holds". That said, I am tempted to yoink the PEM Mosin with Bramit, and just extract with this rifle for the intelligence value alone.

@gulkash1188 6 месяцев назад

As so many others have said: stick with the gun you know and are trained on. Getting out of this is gonna come down to fieldcraft and while a suppressed rifle would theoretically be helpful, the resulting casualties will be noticed. You're better off sneaking off and keeping your safety on

@jc5445 6 месяцев назад

At the end of the day, a bolt gun is a bolt gun is a bolt gun. Deep behind enemy lines, I’d take the enemy’s weapon. He already said you’ve got more ammunition for it, and odds are you’ll find plenty of Russian cannon fodder with a couple of stripper clips in their pockets. The suppressor is just a nice bonus.

@UnderTrack_ 6 месяцев назад

I'd take the Mosin because I recall some things being said about the german early sniper scopes and mounts, I don't recall if it's the ZF39 or ZF41 or some other scope but in doubt I take the PU which I know will work fine even if it's likely worse than german glass; and since you're supposed to leave the area I consider the goal isn't to take down all ennemy snipers/soldiers just for the sake of it but rather root out and kill specific units that prevent your escape, at which point having the same gun as the ennemy makes it harder for them to identify who exactly is shooting (friendly or foe), since the kar would be unsuppressed while the mosin is suppressed and has lighter loads.

@jasonbloho8015 6 месяцев назад

Kar98k is a decent amount shorter so if im alone and have to clear corners thats a big advantage along with a presumably slicker action. Optic advantage probably lies with ZF 39 even against PEM model. I expect the mosins higher velocity and group size advantage to not play a big role in the closer distances of the city. Goodluck shooting even a quarter of your rounds before getting shot.

@kentr2424 6 месяцев назад

I'm keeping the rifle I know, that I've trained with, that I've zeroed, that I know I can get ammunition that my scope is built for. Taking an enemy weapon that you've never fired could result in YOU lying there with another hole in your head because you missed a shot.

@koosh138 6 месяцев назад

Take the Mosin, it's more important to bring back intel. Upon observation, would I even be able to tell the ammo was subsonic, is there a different rifing in the barrel? bringing back the Mosin could mean way more than I perceive at that time. I can be re-issued another 98, but can my side afford not having full knowledge of the enemy weapons?

@TheSuburban15 6 месяцев назад

When laid out like that, I'm going to keep the rifle and ammo that I have DOPE for.

@FiskeWerks 6 месяцев назад

K98. You already are trained on it. You’ll know your holds.(especially important given the fact you’re dealing with lower velocity ammo with the mosin) You already have the gear on your person. (Think pouches) Your task is less engaging at this point, and more getting off the X.

@cheesenoodles8316 6 месяцев назад

If I have experience with the K98, but none the Mosin... Taking my K98 and pocket the suppressor. I have trigger time on a Swede M41B with AJAX and a PU. The x4 AJAX is better glass and does better at longer ranges but at more realistic ranges the PU does just as well and it has proven rugged.

@maverickpaladin4155 6 месяцев назад

To me, it's a simple answer. As much as I may love the Mosin and regardless of the superiority of the optic or the muzzle device, the facts are that as a sniper, I KNOW my rifle and cartridge, and as I've already been spotted, may need to use it immediately. The smart move would be to take a few of the downloaded cartridges and the muzzle device, as those would stow easily in a pocket or pouch. I'd then move off with my rifle, likely leaving the Mosin staged as a decoy.

@timewave02012 6 месяцев назад

If it was a scoped SVT-40, and you already had extensive experience with scoped SVT-40s, switching might almost make sense. Without some kind of guaranteed advantage, I can't imagine switching from the rifle you know.

@jasonbowen7190 6 месяцев назад

Mosin PU vs Kar. 98 ZF39 I have to look at this in two capacities. 1st as myself, and again as a German soldier. As myself 34 year old shooting enthusiast and history buff(with a high speed internet connection), the decision is much harder. I have far greater access to insights and knowledge than a 18-20 year old German soldier of the era. For instance I’m actually acquainted with the concept of subsonic ammunition and their use with a suppressor. That makes the Mosin more attractive to me than it would be to German soldier. I also know how to bypass the PU on the Mosin by opening the floor plate and feeding stripper clips directly into the bottom of the magazine, for a quick reload. I doubt even Soviet snipers were trained on this “technique”. That said, i doubt that even the subs are sufficiently quiet in the 1940s suppressor. If I can easily detach the scope, I(myself) would stick to the Mauser, so that I can load it (with stripper clips) with relative ease. If not, I’ll take the Mosin. On the other hand, if I were a heavily propagandized German conscript I doubt I’d be inclined to pickup the vastly inferior Soviet garbage rod. Furthermore, I see so many others talking about familiarity with the Mauser but the real reason to take it is far simpler. You don’t know if the Mosin is zeroed. In fact! Judging by the near miss(with a presumably identical rifle), it’s probably prudent to ditch the Mosin altogether. The only reason to take the Mosin(in this context) is to hand it over to command for brownie points. However, I doubt they’ll be too happy with me ditching my rifle in the process. If possible I’d take the suppressor for testing and evaluation by intelligence services and aforementioned brownie points. Either way, I’m likely to choose the Mauser. The Mauser is just a better weapon. Easy to load, thanks to its rimless cartridges. It’s more accurate(on average)and it’s the most prolific rifle of the era. Bottom line, if I’m trying to sneak back to my lines firing any shots (suppressed or not) is likely to get me killed.

@ZESAUCEBOSS 6 месяцев назад

The K98 has a smoother action, and I ASSUME (could be incorrect here) that optics manufactured prior to 1943 in Germany are of a higher quality than the ones coming out of the Soviet Union at the same time. The ability to reduce shot signature with the early suppressor is interesting, but for myself as a shooter, I assume it does not offset a higher quality optic, and a smoother bolt to operate for the k98.

@BenSticks3 6 месяцев назад

Contrary to many of the comments, i would take the mosin. In a scenario like you described, you would be avoiding combat at all costs, and if you did find yourself in a scenario where you had no choice but to fire a shot, you would likely be close range, where the exact zero of the rifle and the shooter isn't as significant a concern. The intelligence potential for recovering a suppressor at this stage would be huge for the Germans, as they already invested heavily in sniping and this could enable them to begin building their own potentially.

@koph5664 6 месяцев назад

The Mosin, because of its suppressor and specialized ammunition. With those two combined, if I had to take a shot, it would better ensure my survival as I make my way back. Not only that, would give me and my side data for which we can use to develop our own.

@kirkstinson7316 6 месяцев назад

And because it's not your weapon and hasn't been zeroed by you that shot you took missed by several inches as did any follow up shots and you gave away your position. Bang! Your dead

@jackcrisci2957 6 месяцев назад

I would bring back the Mosin. The sound dampening device and plentiful amount of ammunition makes it a more viable option to get out with. Additionally, there is great intelligence value in bringing back this rifle.

@andys6905 6 месяцев назад

I think the largest part of the equation for me would be the optics. I don't have great vision and may be spending a lot of time looking through one of these scopes.

@kirkstinson7316 6 месяцев назад

Poor vision? I feel your pain but we would not be picked as snipers anyway because of it

@davedrake5809 6 месяцев назад

I can understand the desire to grab the suppressed rifle. But, in this scenario, where accuracy could make the difference between life and death. I’d take the rifle that hadn’t been dropped. The rifle I know inside and out. The rifle I’d taken lives with and trusted my life to. The rifle for me would be my rifle.

@bobburgess8143 6 месяцев назад

I own both rifles. My vote, based on usage not ideology is for the suppressed Mosin Nagant M91/30 PU. I also am thinking about the reduced loaded ammo for this purpose as well.

@ratagris21 6 месяцев назад

Pick up the Mosin-Nagant rifle since you'll be able to use the battle field pick up ammo. Use the Bramit as needed.

@michaelmichaelson8452 6 месяцев назад

If I had just picked up an enemy weapon, sniper or not if I didn't have a chance to shoot it prior given a choice I would stick to the weapon I know and trust until I had a chance to shoot the enemies weapon