The question was extremely poorly worded. There is legitimate concern that many local fans can no longer afford to go to the games, but to put that on fans from abroad, as the question of the Journalist implies, is stupid.
Spot on, Premier League clubs have been gouging prices before tourist's started to go to games. Only certain clubs even have access to tourist fans such as the top 6.
This. Not impressed with this poorly researched rubbish from someone who should have stuck with FM content. It wouldn’t have been hard to dig a little deeper into this and not put out this ignorant take.
Yeah, the question implies that foreign fans are making up a large quantity of those in the stands which I find hard to believe given how expensive it is to travel internationally.
Maybe this is because like Big Ange, I'm Australian, I don't see foreign fans as plastic. I'd argue a better definition is fans who only support teams when they're winning and will jump ship when they lose.
I agree, I would suggest a tiny percentage of English supporters think International supporters are 'plastic' Ange was asked a loaded question Due to Tottenham raising ticket prices by 6% in the middle of a deep recession in England. This country is struggling to feed impoverished children, pay gas and electric bills, due to an idiotic decision to leave the European Union 8 years ago. One of the only respites is to watch your local club play football whether you like it or not people who's family lineage for generations support the same club have a right to feel more entitled than a wealthy fan who has seen a game 7 years ago from overseas and are willing to pay 10X the amount a ticket would have cost 5 years ago.
I agree. A fan of a specific club are not plastic, a fan of "Premier League" could be classed as plastic by some. Also Jordan Henderson does not play for Liverpool anymore and was not a product of Liverpool FC. And not all Premiership clubs have stadiums that have a capacity of over 30k.
To add to this a bit. I think it's fair to say that fans who just spend their time berrating players and everything to do with the club they "support" when they're losing or not performing, but when the clubs winning act as if that never happened and say the complete reverse are plastic as well. If you're only willing to support your club and players when times are high then to me you're a plastic fan even if you "support" just that one team and haven't jumped ship through the bad.
The thing is, if you're not able to go to home games, you simply can't be a supporter on the same level as a local. If someone thinks they deserve to see the team, at the expense of someone who has poured blood, sweat and tears into the club week after week, they are the entitled one.
Ange used to coach my cities team Brisbane Roar and helped us win two titles. Seeing how he’s doing now and how well respected he is makes me so happy. Also, you spoke so much facts in this vid Z
@@minichalvo9818 every now and then, happy that they’re back playing at Suncorp Stadium again. Also, just came back from Portugal and saw my fathers local team Vitoria Setúbal play in the 3rd devision of Portuguese football. The home support was UNREAL!
So a few years back I taught a class on the history of identity. Sports teams are a major vehicle people use as a personal identifier. While self-identification is certainly valid to the individual, another key component of identity is tribalism. Once enough people share an identity they, by simple virtue of being the group which holds that identity, also begin to define it. As crucial a part of a group identity as identifying which characteristics are emblematic is defining which characteristics are "other." In this vein, if a person in Thailand decides that they are a Manchester United fan, they most certainly are correct. However, if a significant plurality of Manchester United fans who share what they see as characteristics crucial to the identity of being a United fan (such as proximity to Manchester) decide that the Thai fan is not the *same* sort of supporter they are, they are also correct. TLDR: While I'm very much a fan of the inclusive "big tent" view of Fandom, identity is a two part equation. It is a mix of identity shaped from within and from without. Neither completely negates the other, but both are valid.
That's what differentiates a "fan" from a "supporter". "Supporters" probably spent their entire lives supporting that one club and did so through proximity, family and friends. "Fans" just don't have that same level of connection.
This is what happens though when your league is hyper commercialized. In Germany this problem is not so relevant bc of the 50+1 rule. Collective bargaining power keeps the ticket prices down. The problems are not the "fans from abroad" but the hyper commercilazation and inflation of English football.
I have been a Roma fan for 17 years now. I am not Italian, not even a European, but I also support my local team. Being a Roma fan can be a really really frustrating experience. I literally began supporting the club just before that 7-1 to Man Utd. But it's now part of me and I am glad to have kept supporting the club no matter what. I have never set foot in Rome (though it's a wish), and only went to Italy once in my lifetime, and briefly. Roma isn't known for its International support, except weirdly enough for Indonesia. In 2015, a game was held there. Indonesian fans (or ultras) made a lot of noise, and, in an inredicbly rare feat, the Roma anthem was played before the game outside Rome. Everything was surreal. I really hope the new stadium gets built and that I will get to see it once it opens. That said, I do understand why some football fans would want their locals to have a say on ticket allocation and ticket prices, especially if international demand exceeds local demand. In most discussions, there should be some common ground. I absolutely do not want to see a stadium with no locals as there is no Roma without Romans, especially the ultras, but I also want to be part of the experience and I will do my part in learning all the chants and I already know most known Roma songs by heart.
I respect you for being a Roma fan in this world that mostly just watches the prem. As an Inter fan from Africa, I prefer Serie A because it's more humble & pure
imo you are just as proper a Roma fan as anyone from Rome. I have family in both the US and Sweden so I support a team in each country and have done for years (well since the MLS team was founded!). Neither is very good at the moment but that doesn't matter to me. Luckily I have seen both play once but you bet I'll jump on any opportunity to do so again
I think that local fans feel that entitlement because of how deep-rooted the football club is to the local culture, and hence English culture as a whole. The history of the sport revolved around the local communities of the clubs and since the sport originated in England I can definitely understand how this entitlement originated as the historical roots of the local community to the club make the local fans feel a deep connection. That's not to say that international fans are not important since they help generate the huge revenue that has turned the league into the superpower that it is now.
"Generating revenue" doesn't mean shit, if it means the core fans can't watch the team. They are the heart of the club; without them, any premier league club would be nothing more than an empty husk.
@@hansijawns And the premier league "core fanbase" are also themselves often fans of the biggest clubs over lower league clubs who are closer to them. So if we want to be so focused on "plastics" we could start with those within your own country who are likely pricing you out on a much larger scale than any international fan is (who have to pay for a flight and hotel just to see a single match).
Im 28 and Ive been a local Chelsea fan for life. Been a Pittsburgh Steelers fan for 12 years and care about both teams equally. Your ability to attend games doesn't determine how much of a fan you are, You're spot on. In regards to Stan Collymore, I'd argue that English fans are generally less passionate than the majority of other footballing nations all over Europe and South America.
Maybe in the premier league, but absolutely not in the lower divisions. Lower div english fans are as passionate as any fan group across europe. Maybe not south america though, those dudes are built different.
When Peru qualified for the world cup some years back, the fan explosion in that stadium was so violent and huge that it caused a minor earthquake. Not great fans. I've been cheering for the Philadelphia Flyers since I was 3 years old, now I am 37. I've cried bitter, bitter tears, more than a few times. I've laughed and cheered and cried tears of joy more than a few times, but I live in Sweden. Plastic.
I’ve been a foreign supporter of Liverpool for 31 years because of family ties. I remember the times when I spent 10+ years waking up at 4:30am-5:30am on weekends to watch the premier league and wasn’t even guaranteed to see the Liverpool games. This was before they started to kick off games later in the day to make it more bearable for US fans. And those 10 years were after a time when 99% of games were unavailable on tv and you had to get some third party tv channel just to show random games from around Europe. I’ve only been able to see them on pre-season tours here in the US while spending thousands of dollars to travel across a continent to see pointless matches. People can say what they want but 90% of local fans have never gone through that much effort to watch their team play. If I’m plastic than they’re all a bunch of turds in the mud that luckily had been dropped right next to the stadium.
That question is exactly why so many people hate English media, fans and prem clubs. I get wanting tickets to be cheaper for local fans, and there should be an allotment for local fans. For me, I'm a Bayern fan and live in Pittsburgh in the US. I'm at a bar watching every single game from 8 am to 1 pm, even taking time off work for champions leauge games mid week. Bayern do a tremendous job at involving their internation supporter groups and recognize it makes them one of the biggest teams in the world. I'm also in the supporters club for our local team, the Pittsburgh Riverhounds. Supporting local is very important as well. As for my relation to that question, I was in London studying for University and one of things I really wanted to do was get to a prem game. I was able to go to a Tottenham match, and it was amazing and really solidified my love for football. The atmosphere was amazing, but I've been to a 3.Liga game at Dynamo Dresden and the atmosphere was 3x that of Spurs. Prem fans are great but no where near the best in the world when I comes to passion, displays, and involvement for new and neutral fans
I applaud your commitment to your club. I watch Köln matches from Mexico City, so I know the drill. But I think you inadvertently are making the point of british fans there. As long as british clubs get away with fantasy pricing for tickets, because there are tourists who don't mind paying 50 quid plus as a one-off to watch a prem match, local working class fans who would go to every match are fundamentally screwed, because they don't have that kind of money. And so the people who deeply identify with their club and know the chants and go off their rocker watch those matches in pubs. In Dresden they can afford to be in the stands. That's what the "plastic" accusation ist about.
@nezahualcoyotl1135 that's why included the allotment part. Like sell as many season tickets as you can ( which need to be cheaper), then set aside maybe 40% of the remaining for cheap local tickets and then the remaining 60% of unsold season tickets for standard sale at whatever the market price is.
You make some great points. As a Brit living in North America, I find that this comes up a lot in conversation with fans of American sports. I can't really describe what it means to be a fan of a football club. Yes, there are North American fans who wake up at 4:30am to watch various clubs and of course this is admirable. This is obviously passion and dedication. In terms of being priced out, the anger should be directed to clubs making more facilities for corporate tickets (where the real money is in ticket sales) and pricing both local and non-local everyday people out. This is when something is lost. For what it's worth, I'm a Leeds fan. The majority of my life they have festered in the second and third tier. The three years in the premier league were for the most part, shit. It is so sanitised and I think that is where negative feelings towards 'plastic' fans come from. I think there's a feeling of the game going past a point of no return in terms of greed and corruption. Stan Collymore is a prick.
Agree with your points on the selfishness of fans to slag off the ‘plastic’ fans who also come in and support and fund the club as much as the ‘local’ fans. I think the anger is directed in the wrong direction though - the clubs are the ones who hike up the prices of the tickets, the shirts, introduce memberships to be given the opportunity to even purchase a ticket, as the management of the clubs have identified that they earn more from fans who come to one game a year, spend a fortune in the club shop, will buy a pint and a pie in the ground as opposed to the typical season ticket holder who will probably not consume anything other than the game they got at a discount as they have a season ticket. You won’t see anger directed at the management at the football club though, unless things are going bad on the pitch.
Just want to say that I am getting back into the news of the football world again and these videos help a lot and are also very entertaining to watch. So thank you Z.
@@guguy00 iirc, he played a game of geoguessr during some stream, and recognised a lower division stadium because he was walking past it every day or something.
I agree with the comments that say this was a poorly worded question by the journalist. The angst in the UK is more to do with the ridiculous prices for tickets in the Premier League and to a lesser extent the Championship which is effectively pricing the local support out. English teams make a big deal about being 'rooted in the community' or at least most do, but the ticket pricing contradicts this,
I think this boils down to what we mean when we talk about "plastic fans". Originally, it's the same as a bandwagon fan - someone who only supports a club because they are winning and only for as long as they are winning. So it's not really about international fans but a subset of all fans (who often are international) that just want to be on the winning side. City has a lot of plastic fans for example. They have their loyal fanbase from back in the day but a lot of people just picked them when they started winning. And it's not just about ebbs and flows either. I've been a fan of Sturm Graz since I was 8. When "we" were big two decades ago and had some pretty decent Champions League success, I'd watch every game I could and I still have an old Vastic jersey laying around somewhere. Then we sucked for a while and I would just occasionally tune in, but still always rooting for "my" team. Plastic fans would be those that were fans of Austria Wien in the 90s, Sturm in the 00s and RB Salzburg since then. That approach is truly offputting, not being a fan of a club half a world away.
Hey Zealand I'm a Fiorentina fan and we just lost our general director (basically a CEO kinda position) and it has shaken up the squad as well as football culture in Italy up quite a lot I'd love if u talked abt it💜⚜
What's ironic is, you could argue that English fans - and many football fans in general - do this on a more local scale ALL the time. Someone from Rochdale is more likely supporting Man United or City because those teams have had more success/money/influence in the region for forever - but likely aren't able to commute into Manchester for all 72 matches or whatever. Would it be right to call them plastic as well?
@RasmusGuldager_ if anything, I have far more understanding and sympathy for the foreign fans who may not even live somewhere where football is a major sport than the English plastics
Not disagreeing with the sentiment about passionate fans globally, but deeper research required on this Z. The reason it’s caused such a clamour here in UK is that Tottenham have refused to continue to offer concessions to their legacy season ticket holder fans (65 yrs+) so they don’t renew their season tickets, so the club can sell more tickets to tourist/plastic/non-season ticket holder fans who want to attend a Tottenham match, at a higher price, and make the club more revenue. The underlying reason for doing this is FFP/PSR (or the new FFP/PSR rules that are coming in) which means clubs can spend/lose more, if their revenue is higher. This will only exacerbate the rich / poor divide in the EPL and make it an even more un-level playing field in the EPL (your previous video on Forest situation covered this). Keep up the great work on this channel!
I love the format of this channel, we get to know the Zealand behind the camera and we get to know his personality/opinions. Keep this channel up and it’d be great to know more random things about you - not just football related stuff. Although please explain your view on Belgium’s away kit
Great video Zealand! Ange just gets it. I've been a Sheffield Wednesday supporter since I was 6, have their jersey, and try and watch as many games as I can online. The only catch, I live in Brisbane Australia. I have more passion for Wednesday than the local soccer team here. I've been laughed at but I don't care. WAWAW
I’m a Newcastle fan. We aren’t even considered to be in the ‘big 6’. Maybe we are the outside 7th team, whatever. My point is, every match I go to, I have the joy of meeting American fans, Australians. I met a Thai couple who have supported Newcastle since their son came to Uni here in the 90s. I love it. Fans from other country’s keep the hearts of clubs beating overseas. If anything, the love they have for the club is so big that they travel thousands of miles to watch us lose at home to Stoke (apologies to that couple from Thailand)…. Yet they still come! Saving up for months and then making long journeys to come and watch our clubs. It’s beautiful. P.S - Safe to say I’m not missing Mike Ashley’s NUFC. 😅
as an aussie ill shed some light on what he said about what happens over here. I like to compare football to afl (its a niche sport only aussies know about, only played in australia very very very popular here. up to 100 000 people go to matches) While football and afl are different in how the fans react, going to the afl is what i would imagine going to a non league game would be like. Everyone knows who's playing, all the chants, storylines EVERYTHING. Football in Australia has gotten a bad wrap over the years but recently because of the national team doing well, our own league expanding and growing and the popularity of the prem and ucl people are actually giving a crap about football in australia. I could ask anyone that likes sport in my class who is there favourite prem team and yes its only top 6 clubs people are still able to talk in depth about the games. Me and my mates want to go to the spurs vs Newcastle game even thought its on a random Wednesday in the middle of a school week because we actually care about these teams. as recently as 5 years ago, when i said to people i play soccer (yes i call it soccer, throw me in jail) they said "soccer! that's such a gay sport wtf." now when i say i play soccer they say "i play too what's your favourite prem team?" Its sooooo good to see football thrive in australia. I would say its only behind afl in popularity. even sports that historically were big now nobody really cares. Cricket, NRL, netball ect are kinda dying. To say aussie fans are plastic is just stupid. I am a man u supporter since 2016 and I've loved watching them play. i would kill to watch even a efl cup game at old Trafford. anyways
Agree with „your team is your team“. Look at Alemannia Aachen in german 4th division, every home game with 20k+ attendance and on awaydays they‘re always A LOT more than the home fans. Btw Z, that would be also a nice video idea. It is a great story behind the club, and even a better one in this season
So I am from Canada, my parents put me in "soccer" because it was one of the few sports I could play. Yet it still took me most of my childhood and the early part of my adult life before I started to like it. I watched the 98 World cup as my first ever matches. I then when I moved to the UK I picked Sunderland because I had wore that kit as a young child in my soccer league (the red and white stripes) because they were in the Premier League. I still watch the league even while following Sunderland in the Championship. And that was after moving back to Canada in 2003. I cheer for a lot of teams that are no where near me and if anyone said I was a plastic fan because I have never been to a Rams game or even an NFL game I would talk them into the ground about the history of the league and some of the stars of the 70s and 80s that played for that team. Honestly it is insulting. And legitimately the arrival of those so called "plastic" fans are saving teams. (most of the EFL would kill to have Deadpool as owner) The fact that Sunderland Till I Die was the reason they even talked about owning a team is just amazing in itself. I mean when people come to Edmonton from Munich, or Cardiff, or Taiwan and say how they found the team and follow as much as they can and they bring their passion for them I feel glad. Thank god that the Oilers are popular enough to reach an audience like that and the team benefits massively from that.
As a spurs season ticket holder, this is the reporters dig at the amount of korean fans in the stadium whilst "local" fans cant get a ticket but the people who cant get a ticket are only trying for the Arsenal Chelsea, City Games then moan when it sells out or the resellers are asking high prices (which the koreans will pay) and then the games that local fans can attend like your luton sheffield or midweek games the local fans wont go because its not the blockbuster game, but the koreans will be there week in week out buying merchandise and supporting the club
Tell you the take the EPL fans aren’t ready for.. as fan bases go the best in Britain are north of the border. Both old firm teams have more passionate fan bases than any top flight English team could hope and Celtic have arguably the best fan base and widely regarded best atmosphere in world football
All the international fandom was there before the premier league and they knew in the future they needed to profit from it. That’s why the clubs left the football league to form the premier league due to tv broadcasting. It was only restricted to one game on the BBC pre 1992. Outside of uk it was a “match of the day” highlight show.
There is a channel run by a Japanese girl who is a massive football fan, who's been travelling across Europe to watch PL and UCL matches the past several weeks. She blends and cheers right with the atmosphere. She even teared up at a Liverpool game when the fans were singing. Can't say she's any less of a fan than the locals despite being from halfway across the world.
I think people feel entitled because it's part of their family history. My great-great grandfather went to watch Aston Villa, and so did every generation of my family. And I'm lucky enough that I'm currently able to afford a season ticket to Villa Park. But if (when), they raise the prices so that I can't afford to go. I'll be the first man of my family for maybe 100 years who couldn't go to see them live. So, yeah, I do kind of feel that certain people are "entitled" to tickets to their club. I'd much rather the Premier League be terrible so that no one else in the world was interested in it, but I never had that choice.
I 100% agree with this, give me something like the turkish league or bundesliga any day. I've never been to a prem game cause I support coventry but I feel sometimes like championship stadiums might have a better atmosphere than the really touristy ones
The atmosphere actually shifted when the Prem was started and all seater stadiums and all the changes due to different disasters changed the whole first tier of England and who go to games. The issue of being able to afford tickets still remains, for local and not local fans.
The Reason Why the journalist suggested that there are plastic spurs fans specifically because of Those korean fans that are only there for Son not for spurs once that korean player leaves they disappear simlar to k-pop fans I'll give example of the korean napoli defender moving to bayren now there's barely any korean napoli fans wolves is another example i think this mainly applies to korean fans only
I think there's more to unpack here with regard to the history of the clubs and why local fans in England feel that clubs use their identities to market themselves to a global audience whilst simultaneously skewering the fans over ticket prices, shirt prices etc. But this is an interesting discussion and opinion to have, even if I disagree with some of the arguments made here. As a Portsmouth fan I would say that most Premier League fans, local or otherwise, have an outrageous entitlement, but that's a discussion for another video.
From my experience as a English person in thier mid 30's. This isn't that new. The main difference is that they get called plastic, rather then glory hunters. Back when I was a kid, United was the team with all the glory hunter fans because all thier fans lived in Surrey. Infact, it was always a running joke that real Manc's all supported City, which is ironic now given the shit Man City constantly get about not having any real fans. Back then it was honestly more understandable, because the whole, most of the footbal being on telly was relatively new. In the past it would be fucking weird to support a club you didn't go to watch, since... you couldn't ever watch them. But now, you can. Personally, I've always thought the idea of "your not a real fan if you don't go the game" is ridiculous because I love football, I've always been an Arsenal fan and I absolutely hate attending any game. I've been like, 8 match in my life and hated all of them. Its too loud, crowded, you can barely see whats happening on the pitch... its just generally a horrible experience for me, someone who doesn't like large crowds of people. I'd much rather watch the game relaxed, peacefully in my own home. So there are an older generation of fans who I honestly kind of understand, because they whole notion of football was heavily formed in a time where... the only way to watch and support a club was to go to games. The rest of the people just use it as shit to "banter" people with, because we (and by we, I mean the majority of humans in this modern day world) are obsessed with being right and better then everyone else. Most of the people that bang on about plastic fans don't even fucking go to the game. At best, they go and watch it in the pub, and think that somehow makes them better then someone like Zealand watching it at home, on his computer, at some ungodly time in the morning, on a different continent. They will sit there and tell you they are better then some guy that lives in South Korea who loves United because they loved Ji Sung Park and they started watching United. They are better then that guy, because they would go to watch the game, but its too expensive now cos of all these plastic fans who are foreign. And he will tell you that from his flat in South London, where he was born and raised by his parents, who also lived their whole lives in South London, because they started supporting Manchester United because thier grandad supported manchester United because he once had a dog, who sniffed the butt of a guy who knew a bloke who's grandad knew a guy who's wife's ex boyfriend once worked for a firm where he knew a guy who played a game for Manchester United in the Napoleonic wars.
Arsenal supporter since 90- and not because they were winning. I haven't been able to attend a home match in person yet. I followed the team when you have to look at scores in a magazine and then on soccernet or the like. Before the friendly at NYRB, the local supporters' group held a big to-do. Grown men and women from all over North America raising pints for Rocky- who remember him more than just a name. Tell me those aren't fans. Let's finish this campaign my friend!
You get it totally wrong at 9.45. You don't get to DECIDE which team you support. Deciding has a calculation, a reasoning behind it. If every football fan in the world chose his team, everybody would support Man City or Real Madrid, period. Instead, you fall in love with a team, and love is not rational. I live in Italy and support my local team (Lucchese, third tier) I saw pictures of Craven Cottage as a kid, bam, fell in love, thunder-struck. Of course you're right, always, you are a very level-headed person, but that word (decide) is the only thing you get wrong. And, oh boy, that's as bad as it can get. LOVE your team, don't decide.
@@donermeat what do you mean, can you not read, the person above said "if that means not being able to see them play" you can watch them on TV or the Internet 😉
I love Liverpool and Darwin, Zealand stopping himself from saying Nunez cause he can't quite put Darwin in "great players" yet at 7:50. It just endears me to Nunez even more.
If I wake up at 4am or 5am on the weekends to watch Liverpool play. As well as moving my lunch time around when they play in the Europa league so that I can watch the games. There’s no way someone can tell me I’m not a fan!!
As a person who supports my local, which happens to be in the championship which i know i am lucky for, i think the important difference to me is who gives a shit when the team wins, who gives a shit when they lose, who gives a shit when they draw. Its those people that hold the club together, if you are from another country i don't care because it doesnt change whether you die on the hill of your club. Quite frankly i have seen english people at the games that i wish werent there, and at the same time i've legitimately seen americans who i dont know that i just spark conversations with while watching because they seem to care about how the team is playing, as well as joining in with chants and trying to will the team forward.
I think the key wording in the question he was asked is 'pricing out' - the reason these Premier League teams have all their money to spend is because of the TV deals to cater to these global audiences. Football clubs in England are meant to be community assets, owners are stewards of a community asset that does a lot of extra outside organising to enhance the greater area. The TV/sponsorship revenue goes up every year, we're in another recession here, and season tickets keep going up by ridiculous amounts. Clubs are not making their *big* money from season tickets, they just aren't. All this extra money could arguably go towards subsidising existing, predominantly working class season ticket holders, but instead the prices go up, and long term ST holders will lapse. For some reason, owners think as the international value of the English game increases, somehow that should increase its price for the locals who been going for years? It can't keep happening, there's a trigger point where young people/working class people can no longer attend. Daytripper seats are what they are, clubs allocate a certain amount for anyone to buy and that's great! It's just a shame to see people who cared enough to go even before the PL existed get pushed aside and forgotten by its success. As you say, Man City are a local club with fairly local catchment support, who regularly don't sell out, but seemingly have all the money in the world. Their new ST prices for next season are minimum £800 for lower/middle tiers (and for people who don't know, cup/european matches aren't included). How can that happen? idk I'm just a guy typing online.
I think this is a bit misjudged just because these clubs and their brands are built on the identities of the working class communities they represent. Lots were literally founded as factory football clubs. To then use this identity to essentially make money for shareholders at their expense is quite a sad indictment of the Prem.
I'm pretty sure that most local fans would prefer that they had a league on the same level as France or Germany if they could also have German ticket prices. England has always and will always be a big footballing nation because of its wealth and how much of that wealth is directed to sports investment.
As an Aussie who has moved to the UK... it's hard to fathom the mentality that someones not a proper fan when they manage to commit to getting up at 3am to watch a game on a worknight vs just popping it on tv at a civilised hour locally in England.. but i think the perception of foreigners being less knowledgeable is maybe not as far spread as you might think, yes there are locals who think they know more by default as the game came from where they grew up...but if you know your shit, people generally will give the credit due and will happily engage in conversation without an elitist judgemental attitude... however one thing I've noticed is a lot of English are beginning to follow lower league teams much more due to the atmosphere being less sanitised and more of a vibe, viewing the premier league as a bit of a Hollywood-esque over the top drama fest, where although the football players may be better... the experience they get from a lower league match ultimately is more enjoyable with all of the other factors being considered... I think this ends up resulting in a bit of a smug view towards those who support an EPL team as being less of a "proper" football fan than those who really get into the lower leagues, as to them... EVERYONE knows the big teams and big players in the epl and it's obvious when a player is high quality.. whereas they may believe you need a bit more of an understanding to appreciate players at a lower standard, and that you couldn't possibly do that if you're an epl fan and are likely following that league because of your limited ball knowledge...
Btw since you mentioned Boca and River I recently remembered a story that gives context to that crazy amount of "passion". It was during the 80s when ultras were at the peak of their powers and influence. Boca was going through a crisis and had delayed many payments to Ruggeri and Gareca among others. They wanted out of the club and an offer came around, an offer from River Plate none the less (definitely motivated purely from banter and humiliation). They took it and signed with River Plate. When this became public knowledge, Ruggeri got one of his houses and cars set on fire, allegedly by order of El Abuelo, the leader of Boca jrs ultras back then.
Massive disagree on the "spoiled" charge. It's another case of globalization crushing ordinary people. English/British working class fans made the atmosphere that caused the PL to be so desirable a TV product in the first place, now they are an afterthought to the ownership. There's no denying that middle class British and overseas fans changed the culture of football in the PL era, and their money led to the PL becoming a 'global league', but I don't think fans who complain about this are "spoiled", as they do not expect to simultaneously have the best international players and retain their identity. Eg, a common opinion when the European Super League was being discussed was "good, let the plastic clubs f off and we can have our football back".
I agree with Z, but I'm apart of that local subset of fans that hasn't been able to watch my club in the stadium. Last time I went to a game was when I was 6 for a league cup game and the price of that ticket might of been £20-30 it was a long time ago. Now i'd be lucky to even watch my team on the TV with all the price hikes by british sports broadcasters.
I think it's a paradox. Part of the IP of The Premier League™️ is the local fan support, the atmosphere it's created going back and being the home of football. It has been sold on that to fans around the world for years. But it's that local support that helps draw people in because they want to be part of that so more and more come over to be a part of it, with clubs realising they can make more and more money out of selling for one off games than to people who go to games every week, especially now when every penny counts towards profit and sustainability rules. There is a balance to be found between the 2 groups of fans, but I don't think any club has found a happy medium.
this video completely misses the point of why local fans dont like "plastics". nobody is saying that people who dont live in england shouldnt be able to go to games, its that the leauge prioritizes tourist fans and activley penalises local fans and are turning their clubs that are pillars of their comunities into soulless iternational brands to attract more international fans and money. To solve the ticket price issue, bring back standing terraces behind goals and make them mostly season tickets, and the rest can be sold to fans who might not get to go to every game but are still passionate enough to stand for 2 hours to watch a team they support and let the "plastic" tourists sit in the more expensive seats.
Maturing as a football fan is realising that clubs like Manchester united, Liverpool, Arsenal etc wouldn't have the 100s of millions of fans they do if everyone was a local fan supporting their team. The premier league wouldn't be "The best League" if it didn't have the large international following. Understanding that just because someone lives thousands of miles away from the home ground of the club they support doesn't make their opinion on their any less valid or important than a fan who lives 15 minutes away from the home ground and goes to every game.
Im a ride or die Liverpool fan and live in New Jersey. I watch literally everything single game and I literally cried when they won the league cup. But apparently im a plastic fan because I don’t live in Liverpool. People need to realize that clubs represent more than just the people in their area. They can represent ideas also. For example the reason I love Liverpool to me is because they show that when people work together for a common goal they can achieve the impossible. You don’t really have that collective mindset much here in America so I had to find it somewhere else.
I feel like I have a different understanding concept I guess To me plastic fans were not foreign fans but fans who choose to support a successful club they have no personal connection to over a club they have a connection of some sort to like a local club or family ties Like a guy from Bremen supporting Bayern
This is what a lot of people miss, when I use the term plastic fans they say I'm being xenophobic or go "why don't you say this about people from London supporting man united" the thing is- I do. I consider them even more plastic because in England, football is such a major sport that you're either fairly close to a team that's at least playing league 2 or above or you have a nom league team on your doorstop with cheap tickets and cheap away days, so there's really no excuse. If you live in somewhere where football isn't really a sport and there's no teams near you then I have some understanding
As a Cheslea Supporter, I agree with Big Ange. The Local Supporters saw me knowing that I'm a Tourist, but gave as much Passion on the Matthew Harding Stand while tears fell down my face as the Local Lads Living on Fulham Road. I only became a fan in 2006 when an Ivorian Striker begged on Live Television with his Teammates to put down their Guns. That's why I'm Chelsea Til' I Die.
I do honestly think that people are missing the point. A lot of people attending the premier league are "plastic", because no normal fan can afford a ticket. Fan culture in England got killed on purpose. but hey at least they got the best league in the world in return with the clubs being used for sportswashing by oligarchs and saudi-barbaria. I'm happy the Bundesliga-fans killed the investor proposition. Even if i never see a german club winning the champions league ever again, i can watch a game for 15 bucks, drink a beer whilst doing so and am not forced to sit like i'm in an opera and to experience an atmosphere that matches that. The UAE will never get 120 pounds so i can watch haaland in a stadium with fans that are as enthusiastic as I am before my prostate exam.
I feel like the interviewer is wording the question poorly, what I think he’s trying to get at is what Roy Keane was getting at with his famous Prawn Sandwich quote Fairweather fans and Rich socialites who go to an event (football match) because they can are what I imagine the interviewers was trying to get at. Ange answered the question very well tho
the argument is the prices of the tickets, 'plastic' is just smear and all of you focus on the 'plastic' part, not the essence of the complaint, the high ticket prices for the local fans
Zealand, I like you am a fan of an ACC school (sorry about your Cavaliers by the way) and we've been having the same damn discussion about this sort of thing for DECADES with the whole "sidewalk alumni" thing. It doesn't REALLY matter, but it does seem to supercharge certain schools (you and I both can name two ACC schools that has happened to) and for most rational people, it doesn't factor into the discussion. Those guys, irritating as they are since they tend to be the loudest and most obnoxious on social media, do make the sport a better place. Same with international supporters in football.
I think a lot of the concern comes from the sort of community mindset that local fans have. Football teams grew out of working class towns and cities organically, and often acted as sites where those fans could express their local culture and customs. Now the teams at the top are international brands, they have major marketing departments and hospitality sections, their budgets have skyrocketed. A lot of fans see this, they see tickets rising, they see stadium becoming more and and more homogeneous, they see that clubs aren’t intrinsically tied to their communities anymore and feel a sense that they’re losing something important in their community. In order to find someone to blame they look at foreign fans or fans that aren’t local, but the real enemy here are the team owners and management who seek profit and status over everything else. I also think it’s really interesting that you bought up fans in countries that were largely previous colonies. The reasons these people don’t have local clubs to support is because of the post colonial economic legacies that they experience. Thus they’re forced to look back to the west in order to engage with the sports they love.
I'm a Boca Juniors fan, pretty hardcore in some ways, not so much in others... But I live 1500kms away from Buenos Aires... Am I less of a fan because I can't go to La Bombonera every Sunday? Hell no, my grandfather's fishing vessel was called "Adelante Boca Juniors", I've been nurtured in the identity of the club all my life, despite the fact that it's really hard for me to go and see a live match of my team... That's not being a plastic fan... The sense of identity with a team, of any given sport, goes beyond the city, neighborhood or country...
I’ve always said this. A plastic fan is not a non local fan. A plastic fan is someone who jumps ship when the team they say they support drops off. You have to be there in the bad times to appreciate the good
The increase in tourists at Premier League games and perhaps also the clubs realising that they can increase prices and these tourists will still go(understandably as it may be a once in a lifetime opportunity for them) has led to rapidly increasing season ticket prices and cuts to old age benefits for local supporters -Tottenham were protesting against the latter against Fulham and Fulham protested the former just a fee months ago - has led to the discontent with tourist supporters as with the clubs paying no attention to the plight of local fans an its us or them mentality develops. Also the suggestion that English teams outside the big 6 get to keep there best players is rubbish we (Fulham) haven't managed to keep one of our young hopefuls from being pinched in years and our two best players this season (Jedi and Palhinia) will probably go in the summer to larger sides.
The English PL is big because football begun in the UK, there is a reason it’s become global it because of the history of the clubs not because of how good the fans are that’s the point your missing. These English teams have been huge for 100 years. Also being a local fan of Arsenal I think what people are Moaning about is the unavailability of tickets for their team, the prices and also the atmosphere is worst if to many tourist fans are there.
Good video w/good points. The question from the journalist was so terribly worded and has made the true issue of ludicrously high ticket prices about 'those damn foreigners' instead of the real culprits; the shareholders and owners. Ticket prices are too high but that isn't the fault of truly passionate fans from other countries.
Ange handled it perfectly imo It was a dumb question meant to kinda trip up the answerer and he played it off honestly and professionally as he is known to do. Spurs are a very good example because Levy just raised prices when he really didn't need to so the journalist very clearly knew what they were doing which is disappointing. Rather than continuing to rant about the issue as well I want to echo what Z said about Ange because he is so intelligent and well spoken I can't wait to see where he takes Spurs or wherever he may end up and his career after managing.
The argument is that these clubs have always in the past been about their local area but kids can't afford to go watch the games anymore and more and more fans have season tickets removed to be replaced by fans coming with more money. I dont think anyone is saying there shouldnt be tickets available for foreign fans but by encroaching more and more chasing money they are turning away the local kids from football at all as they just can't afford to watch it or participate. The nfl play games abroad and maybe that is a better solution to this issue if the premier league wants to do this. Yes fans would be annoyed but the trade off is more locals at home games for more of the season
@@temiomo-loto4122 that's the logic that has it so you can't afford to buy a house. A market can be regulated to look after ordinary people there just isn't any interest in that but it's short term gain for long term loss. How about everyone in football has a bit less to make sure those who go to watch can keep the game going rather than becoming some sad F1 level spectacle where the only interest is in who makes the rules not in the sport itself
As a foreign fan, I completely agree with you Zealand, but I think there is a genuine issue that exists, and the journo didn't get the issue across as a result of his question being poorly phrased. The locals who are just as much fans as the foreign fans, should not be excluded from being able to attend games, since wealthy foreign fans can afford to pay more. Traditionally, football is a working man's sport, and it should be affordable to everyone, as they do a much better job protecting in Germany. Outpricing locals from seeing their team, for maybe a million or 2 more a season, when they are earning hundreds of millions in TV revenue, and sponsorhips, is frankly embarrasing.
As an Englishman, I always think of people who support teams outside their hometown/city as being a 'plastic' to be honest. I'm from a town called Stockport and support our local team, Stockport County. However most people in the town support Man Utd or Man City, a place they have no affiliation to. However, I've never considered foreign fans as 'plastic' as the PL is a global brand and it is going to attract foreign fans as it's designed to, as a massive fan of the Vancouver Canucks of the NHL it'd be hypocritical of me to say otherwise, I think the main difference is that most foreigners who support these teams will also have a home country team they support as well.
Well then protest that but you can't blame people who love the team from other parts of the world instead of blaming the actual people pricing you out Germans protest this all the time they say foreign investors are the problem not foreign fans it's common sense
Big Man City fan basically my entire life, thought Michael Johnson was cool til he sputtered off, Shawn Wright Phillips leaving Chelsea for city is when I really chose, Anelka was my favorite player but I didn’t like Chelsea as a whole and I despised United, watched on and never left, wasn’t even completely sold on Pep because I had a soft spot for the moments and players Mancini ball brought us your early iterations of Kompany, Toure, Aguero, Ballotelli, Silva then Pellegrini with KDB, Fernandinho, Hart, Milner; I’m from NYC. When NYCFC came through I was excited. Even if all the money leaves and we drop leagues I’m still rocking. I’ve seen them play only once years ago against Liverpool in Yankee Stadium game was competitive in spots, still a friendly but competitive, in a full crowd, rocking, shouting, big stadium, met some English city fans nicest people in the world, I told them my love for the team and they gave me a scarf I still have with the griffin on it while getting some sliders in between halves, It was a 2-2 draw and the game ended up on penalties, City lost on a bad penalty performance pre Alisson, I was still happy before and after, chopped it up with cool Liverpool and City fans on the way out the stadium, Subway back was so packed we had to take a dollar van back home. If I had the opportunity to do that for every city match day in England, Home and most Away matches I would jump at it. It’s unreal, went to the Maradona museum they had up in Manhattan for his HBO doc Maradona in 2019, still keep the sticker on my wall, they had a guy live painting #10 on a canvas, true Legend. Shout-out City for also employing the Jamaican youth dem Sterling and Sturridge (sad to see Raheem now as he’s been replaced by Doku but we’ve all done it in FM) as a person of 🇯🇲 descent. Oh and Z you have to talk about the US’s performance vs the Yaadies up until the luckiest play of all time occurring at the death.
as a liverpool supporter, i fully embrace 'plastic fans' so to speak, i have been to anfield, sat in the Kop, and I know that without foreign fans, foreign players, foreign money, that the last thing we would have won is the coca cola cup. without houllier, torres, song, salah, suarez (i could go on) we wouldnt be where we are, and frankly that came from investments beyond english fans, on the flip side, tickets are expensive, but this isnt a football issue. ed sheeran, adele, many huge acts charge HUNDREDS of pounds for tickets to concerts - its a little thing called 'supply and demand' for every single club in england, there is a fixed supply of tickets, be it 60,000 or 600 seats, if there are 60,000 seats and 600,000 fans wanting seats, prices go up, this has little to do with "plastic fans" - look at london, population of what 4, 5 million in greater london? wembleys on 90,000 seats or something right? you could fill it on local people thousands of times over. English fans are, and have been for a while entitled and tied up in an "us vs them" mentality - but again, where would your club be without foreign players, foreign sponsers, foreign investors, those things all attract foreign fans. dont be a dick about a fan in another country, be jouyous that football is an international language and share the love.
For me it's a false binary. It can be both true that fans are being priced out of the sport while it can also be true that the reason isn't "plastic," "foreign" or "tourist" fans.
I think the term "plastic" is often thrown around aimed at certain clubs in particular. For example, my club Man City is often mentioned as having "plastic fans" which just isn't the case. Fans from around the world for all teams deserve an equal opportunity to watch the club they support, so seeing this tribal mentality that you must be from the area to support a team is not only idiotic, but hypocritical, especially when it comes from fans of clubs that have thrived over the years on the global fanbases (Man United, Liverpool).
Look at reading their fanbse gree massively because of plastics when they were in the prem. Look at whos still there the locals, the real fans who were there before the prem
You’re wrong on that case. Man city is one of the few teams in the world I would say actually have a lot of plastic fans. You ask anyone who pretends to know football and they will tell your their favourite team is man city or real
I'm a Newcastle fan from Australia. Anyone who says non-English fans aren't real fans have probably never had to get up at 3am every week to watch a game live like we do
I'm not just saying non English fans aren't real fans. I'm saying English fans who aren't local aren't real fans. You've got up at 3am to watch a game invyour nice comfy bed, you've never got up at 3am to travel half the length of the country to watch your side lose 7-0 in the freezing cold rain to some part time plumbers and still gone the next away day
Shocking that the English, known for thinking they are the center of the universe for 500 years, think that the largest clubs in the world are supposed to continue to cater to only them.
As a Man United season ticket holder, I see tourist fans all the time (& I use the word tourist because plastic fans are people like glory supporters who switch clubs because they don't like losing & actually have no real allegiance to any club. etc, etc.) & I have no problems with fans travelling from wherever they come from in the world, because for me, it just shows how dedicated they are considering the ridiculous amount of money they'll have to spend.
I’m Asian. I wake up at 4am or stay up till 4am even when i have important commitments in the morning just so I can watch my team. I’ve been doing that for over 10 years, I’ve lost my voice for weeks on end when I watch my team win. Almost all asian football fans do that. But sure, we’re plastic.
So fans who can no longer afford to watch their own club because their clubs are selling tickets for 10x the price to foreign fans and want a level playing field between English clubs aren't allowed to feel aggrieved that people from abroad don't support their own local team and leave their own league in the dust, the same fans who complain their league doesn't have good quality yet won't support their local team to help grow that quality
Ah yes blame your fans from a foreign country instead of your CLUB that increased prices 😂, you a stupid like all the others blaming fans for a CLUB decision
