Not to mention that Kyubey literally does not care if humanity even gets to join "the universe" at some point or another. In one of the timelines where Madoka becomes a witch, he says, "we've filled our quota." and when Homura asks him what we do now that the most powerful witch has been released, he just says, "That's humanity's problem now." And who knows if the human race would've existed long enough for the heat death of the universe to even matter anyway.
Exactly! While I whole heartedly agree with how kuybey is a peice of shit and shouldn't do this to anyone? I still honestly think homura is no better because she's willing to damn humanity and rewrite the world so she can have modoka to herself. She's become what she hates because now? Madoka isn't a person. She's an object. And object being argued and fought over and coveted by kubyey and homura.
I never noticed that Homura was standing on the bed as opposed to Madoka lying on it. Shit dude. For most things I wouldn't think that meant anything, but Madoka has the care put into it that suggests that was probably intentional.
It probably is intentional and symbolic. Madoka was a victim, forcibly given information she didn't want and couldn't process. Ego, she lies and sits up on the bed like most people do because she can't bear the details even she shoots down Kyubey's reasoning. Homura is a fighter, actively seeking and decrying the information. She kneels and stands up on the bed in defiance of societial norms, much like she is defying Kyubey and his rationalizations.
I love how you describe Sayaka's witch as a "Lovecraftian monster," because that flows with the rest of your point so well. The main source of Lovecraft's horror was that there are powerful things out there that give no shits at all about humanity. It wasn't that the Great Old Ones were evil, it was that they were so powerful they could do whatever they wanted to and around humanity, and felt no need to explain any of it, not that we could understand even if they did.
indeed, and the bigger the cosmic horror, the less likely they will be aware or care about our existence as they bulldoze right over top of us. and no god can help anyone that can successfully get their attention
"gen urobuchii" said in an interview Kyubee is inspired from H.P lovecraft(atleast the idea of being unable to understand human emotion)- Kyubee is my favorite character but also my most Hated I love it
Wow. Never noticed this parallel. What the hell.. . "What. *_Bullshit_* rationalization could you possibly have for doing this to me and Madoka?" "Entropy schemes" and the entire 2:53 - 3:28 part: GOLDEN. So much packed in such short video. I'm thoroughly impressed.
Heat death of the universe is one of the ideas about the end of the universe. It was fairly popular when pmmm was made. It matters little for humans because of the sheer time scale. I cannot remember exact time frame but it is in the area of quintillions of years aka many millions of trillions of years. No human can personally comprehend that. We can see the numbers, but no human can live it thus we cannot truly understand it, so Kyubey's rationalization is only comprehendable as a numbers game. Kill the few to save the many.
tbf, there are at least two ways the universe could end that making free energy would stall if the universe is eternally expanding, this slows down the eventual moment when the distance between things, and energy per volume, becomes so small that nothing can really happen if all energy is slowly turning into heat, which is then slowly evening out, this slows down the transformation into a homogeneous temperature universe where all the heat is the same everywhere and thus nothing can really happen, energy wise
@@JayAreAitch yeah But at a slower rate the matter and energy of the things get spread out in the new extra space it's got(mostly the energy, since that's not pulled back together by gravity) Eventually so much so that nothing of value can happen At least that's the idea
I mean, I get your point, but...I always felt Kyubey's rationalizations made some semblance of sense...and I found it useful when he spoke in Rebellion because he finally made sense of the seriously weird stuff that had been going on until then.
It does seem very clinical though, like he's dissecting these complex emotions as if it were a game of operation. Distilling a person and their motivations to basic elements can both dehumanize someone and defamiliarise their actions.
@@seankrkovich2869 that’s also the same excuse people in power use to justify gunning down people in streets like dogs,ya know for a “logical being” ya think Kyubey would word things a lil bit more wisely
@@steampunksloth0059 there are a ton of ways kyubey could've done things to minimize the damage but he didn't. He doesn't care about humans. His logic is basically sociopathy without the ego.
@@hazerddex It's pretty fair to assume that it's "canon" within the context of the madoka universe considering the Incubators have science and technology so advanced compared to us that we can't even begin to understand it. If they think it's confirmed, it's not really our place (within the context of madoka) to tell them that it's "just hypothetical."
@@master2497 The only problem with that is we actually haven't seen any evidence of what it would look like and if entropy is simply going to accelerate and cause the universe to deteriorate much faster in Madoka's reality than in ours due to the existence of magic and concentrated hope and despair as physical elements. Though...I have also wondered if his actions are actually what's CAUSING entropy itself. It sure does take A LOT of energy to create a god. Or grant the same girl two wishes in two different universes. Or even the nonsense that leads to an undead witch like Subaru Kazumi becoming a magical girl to be "human". Or every bit of metaphysical hijinks that basically manipulates causality and fate like in Tart Magica and Magia Record. I would be extremely curious if we could now see Homura's soul as the physical manifestation of the arrow of Time, and Kyubey constantly making contacts with girls who rewrite the fabric of reality or attain divinity is ironically hindering his race's efforts to preserve the cosmos' remaining heat energy. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed...but if you use existing energy...then maybe the very existence of magical girls/witches and despair are entropy itself.
@@PikachuLittle: It's not, but to a creature like Kyubey the life of any one human, or even humanity as a whole really isn't of any consequence beyond being a resource to exploit.
Nice analysis! I was finally struck by something here: the themes about sacrificing individuals to save the universe really does tie into themes already present in the show, about whether magical girls should sacrifice themselves to protect others. It's all about sacrificing one for the greater good. Ultimately, the answer the show arrives at is that, since everyone is interconnected, you can't save one person by sacrificing another. Madoka is able to do what she does because she values others the same as she values herself, no more and no less. If others' happiness is her happiness, then it kind of blurs the boundary between self and other in the first place.
I find it kind of interesting, then, the parallel and polarity that Madoka and Homura exhibit towards each other. Madoka's wish and apotheosis are ultimately selfish - she wanted to protect everyone, and made a wish that would allow her to do that, becoming a benevolent god that is well-loved by those who experience the mercy she wishes to give. And we can see that, ultimately, she's happy with this decision. It being *selfish* does not make it *evil* or *harmful*. Homura's apotheosis was ultimately *selfless* - she didn't care about herself, at all, only about Madoka, and everything was to keep Madoka safe - even if it meant betraying her wishes. She even names herself a "Devil" and punishes herself. She continues to ignore what it is she really wants... just like Sayaka did. Her wish being "selfless" does not make it *good* or *benign* But... Humans are complex creatures. Who knows just how sustainable Madoka's state is? And maybe even a devil can learn to forgive herself and trust in the one she loves.
That last half-minute of this video was infinitely better than my own statements on this scene (then again, I wasn't analyzing insomuch as reflecting on how it made me feel but), wow. That is fantastic juxtaposition and I should've expected no less from SHAFT, but hooooooly fucking shit I can't believe I didn't pick up on that in the past 20 viewings of this film I've done. Brilliant and completely accurate statements on Kyubey's garbage outlook and PMMM as a whole. Thank you so goddamn much.
Kyubey never "lies", it just rarely tells the whole truth. When parsing what Kyubey says, one must pay close attention to the exact words used. Wherever there is any room for ambiguity, there is most certainly some important detail Kyubey is leaving out.
@@EmeralBookwise kyubey decieves madoka by pretending he actually needs her help when getting shot down by homura. While Kyubey claims he doesn't understand humans he constantly abuses their sense of morality in order to push them further towards despair ("Madoka, how could you throw your friend away like that?" "Really? I don't get humans at all. Why should it matter as to what container your soul is in?" How can he preach about all that if he claims he doesn't understand humans!? He knows that madoka throwing her friend away is a big deal yet claims that the fact her friend is actually her soul gem shouldn't matter, and l of that wouldnt make sense if again, he claimd that he doesnt understand humans.) Basically, Kyubey's logic is absurd and he's actually constantly lying. He's using the same tactic as making people sign contracts in hasty decisions without telling them of the consequences.
@@VGamingJunkieVT: oh, absolutely, and very much the reason why lies was in quotation marks. Also, I'm pretty sure sure the Incubators know exactly how deceptive they are being. Claiming naivety and pretending they'd have been more forthcoming if only people asked the right questions is just one more part of their manipulative con.
@@EmeralBookwise Not to mention, Kyubey flat out admitted that they told humans about the soul gems containing their actual souls and them overreacting before, so they know fully well that it's upsetting for them to find out about. They definitely can't claim ignorance.
I wanna add In the first and second examples, all the high octane trippyness is "caused by" or "under the power of" Kyubey, visually showing his domination over a then teenage human girl, Madoka But in the *third* example, we are in Homura's Labyrinth, within her own Soul Gem. This is her realm, and it shows in the psychedelic imagery being "controlled" or "created by" Homura. It's why I hesitate to call it a "fight" or "a vs". The only thing Kyubey has are words in a world belonging to Homura and Homura alone - and Homura has long since grown used to fighting off Kyubey's verbal bullshit
I remember watching these scenes and thinking screw your alien entropy explanation. After all the suffering that happens it just feels baffling to hear the one behind it all give the explanation that it is for something so foreign and unimaginable as the heat death of the universe. It's interesting to see just how the show nudges you toward feeling this way as well as the awesome symbolism of Homura standing on the bad I never even considered
I find your videos to end in an abrupt way and it makes me angry. You raise good points and I want to listen to what you are saying but then the video ends and its like OK NOW EXPLAIN, ELABORATE. it's infuriating. I don't know whether you do it on purpose or not.
He made his point concretely and concisely, nothing more needed to be said. If you need someone to ramble on for 15 more minutes for the point to make sense to you I think thats more a failing on your part.
Wow....why did you cut off the video like that? O.O I think you did a great job in holding attention throughout then it stops..is there a part two coming? Really enjoyed this video specially since it sorta explains why during that part of rebellion you mentioned where it felt like the pacing was dragged out when kyubey starting speaking helps me realize why I was so bored during that part off the movie
I think it would've been way better for the Incubators to just say they use it as a power source for their species, not as some way to save the universe. Edit: I now disagree with this comment and think it's better that they're trying to save the universe from entropy.
Kyubey is entitled and self-centered so he probably thinks his pseudo scientific actions are doing people a favor even if the whole "entropy theory" only benefits his own species.
@@rednebula3503 At the end of the day the Incubators are a hivemind with one purpose that all living things share: the intuition to survive. It is highly likely that their species will ultimately be one of the last remaining lifeforms when the heat death effectively begins, which displays their ability to absolutely be as selfish and arrogant as humans in spite of their lack of empathy and emotional cognizance. ESPECIALLY when they underestimate the idea that the humans they deceived would do absolutely ANYTHING to survive themselves. Which means young adolescent girls would not accept the inevitability of imminent death and self-destruction forced upon them by these utilitarian jackasses and would ultimately fight back using the powers their benefactors granted to them to fuck said jackasses over six ways from Sunday. Them actually gaining the ability to fucking do so is what happens in each and every Madoka installment, regardless of how much the universe is altered in the process. Basically they're fucking idiots for not taking this shit into account. And it backfires on them every single time.
Fair but have you ever met or been a teenage girl? I don't think Kyubey has said anything that was entirely truthful, ever, but it never had to be truthful, since Kyubey is an eldritch monstrosity from space preying on the wishes of adolescent human children and not the quasibenevolent alien saviour as which it wants to present itself. The whole entropy thing is a lie and part of its act, the idea being, I think, that if it can't get them to make a selfish wish for circumstantial reasons, it's going to try to sell becoming a magical girl to these, I cannot sufficiently stress this, actual children as the ultimate sort of selfless sacrifice. Society already feels incredibly entitled to the bodies, desires, self-worths and agencies of girls as a category; anecdotally, I felt so useless in that age range because I didn't/couldn't conform and didn't feel useful to my family that, given time and effort on the part of an eldritch affront to all that is good and holy, I could probably be convinced to turn into a Lovecraftian timebomb lich to feed it. Even without the 'it's to save teh Wurldz!!!!!' shtick. The shtick helps speed the process along, because as a species these creatures are collectively sociopaths, and sociopaths are impatient and reckless, but it's fundamentally unnecessary for a variety of reasons, chief among them being convincing your parents that a returning stuffed animal wants your soul. And if it knows it has nothing to offer these children, this terror alien will play on the expectation that said children should be ready and willing to give of themselves for whatever cause beyond them at all times; they're girls because as a gender, girls are more frequently, more intensely and from younger ages conditioned to altruism, even and especially to the detriment of themselves. Kyuubey also has a rich pre-existing literature of light-on-the-plot, be-useful-to-all-of-humanity "power" fantasies to work with in the form of magical girl anime in universe. These are all, once again, minors, typically in bad situations... in Japan, where they might already use this kind of genre fiction as a form of escapism. They'll usually have very little opportunity or inclination to try to vet these claims about the impending heat death of the universe, and the beats the incubators hit with the trappings of the whole mahou shoujo thing are psychologically reassuring to their victims... on a surface level. But then, again, these are teens and tweens, legal minors, Children, and people don't have well developed consequence thinking until stupidly late for a species that can reproduce starting at about 10-12. It's horrible. I love this show.
I honestly understand the incubators’ rationale somewhat, as the thought that our universe will lose energy and be in darkness for longer than it’s even been around so far is terrifying. However, I disagree with the method. Couldn’t they ask someone like Madoka capable of making a powerful wish to just, change the laws of physics to erase the concept of entropy?
I mean it’s scary, but given the fact that humanity could go extinct and re evolve from amino acids a good million times over before it actually becomes relevant I fail to see why anyone should care
@@PikachuLittle" You think that the Universe's demise is too far away in the future to be worth the sacrifices? It is because you think the remaining lifespan of the Universe is even a long time that I cannot truly take your condemnation seriously. You recognize yourself as more long-sighted than the cattle you breed, which only lives in the present day and doesn't worry about the future. You rightly see this as a sign of your superiority. But when you yourself meet beings possessing a broader picture yet, you call us monsters instead of recognizing our greater sanity. You would stop our plan if you could. Let me put it this way. You said you care about all the people in your life, didn't you? They are important to you. You claim their lives are precious in a way that my kind couldn't understand. Well, if our plan succeeds, as it is bound to, in a trillion trillion years from now there will be innumerable conscious beings like you, living out their lives. Some of them will be descendants of species similar to your own. They will inherit your emotional makeup and consider each other precious the same way. Everything you value in your life on Earth right now will exist for someone else in the future. Without our plan that future would not occur. Those countless sapients would die out or not exist, as by that time the Universe would stop being capable of supporting life, especially on the scale we have in mind. Are you fine with that? Do you not mind cutting off all those futures, denying all these people a chance to live, because you didn't want to increase your species' mortality rate by a very tiny fraction? ...What is it? Very well, we can change the subject." - "I, Incubator" by Markus Ramikin.
@@platogkrone7161 well given that your “plan” involves the immanent destruction of my species in a matter of about a month if you succeed on getting that pink girl to become one of your cattle you can understand where I take issue. Simply put, I am a myopic and selfish being who doesn’t particularly care about anything that doesn’t directly affect me. So I don’t give a crap about those hypothetical beings that can potentially exist in years that can only be expressed through scientific notation. I do however care about not getting eaten by a world destroying monster born from the actions of a species of self righteous marshmallows who are foolish enough and arrogant enough to believe they will live that trillion trillion years to reap the benefits of having the universe survive that long. And yes, I am calling you out for believing that you will survive that trillion trillion years. The arguments you have made are born from an emotional base, tapping into empathy to convince me of the value of hypothetical lives that are so far removed from my existence we might as well be discussing a cloud formation on OGLE-2014-BLG-0124L. But why would you care? Emotions are a mental illness within your species are they not? Therefore in order for you to invest so much effort and resources into your fancy system you must receive direct tangible benefits from it. So spare me your claims of benevolence, you are exactly the same as me. You too are a myopic and selfish being whose only goal is to perpetuate your own self interest. Your scope may be grander and your means more esoteric but you’re still beholden to the base urge of all biological life, the continuation and propagation of your species. But that arrogance of yours will be your undoing. Yours is a house of cards that only needs the slightest nudge to collapse. One bad wish, one girl with a little too much karmic potential, one insane lesbian who has lost their waifu one too many times. And everything comes down. So enjoy it while it lasts because like everything else in this universe your days are numbered, and I think your time is coming sooner than you expect
@@platogkrone7161 hey you’re the one who answered with an in character Coobie argument, I just responded in kind. What you’ve never seen people respond in character to RU-vid comments before?
This scene always reminded me of lain talking to specters in her bedroom with the shadows of stuffed animals behind them, and theyre talking about what’s real, god, prophecy.
Well Kerry was also a coward who always takes the easy way out, even if it ultimately causes more damage in the end. That’s kind of the entire point of his arc, that his ruthless pragmatism and willingness to treat human lives as simple math equations ultimately kills far more people than it saves.
@@PikachuLittle I will not calling him coward but you are right. Other than understanding the effect of his actions in world. How his actions also create a despair which he himself didn't able to hold up? He forced to throw his humanity to find true salvation but forget that throwing his humanity will create this salvation meaningless. Angra mainyu and Gilgamesh are right that only way to reach salvation in his own way is death. On the other hand, his son Emiya Shirou chooses the harder path in the end of the where he never call anything really bad or wrong. But accept the cycle of hope and despair along with his love toward humanity to find true meaning of this suffering by fighting against it. So that humans always change themselves eternally to create a better world and again create a despair which teaches them again in right way. hope is the thing which is the reason why human is able to strive in this world. Hope elevate us from a mere animals. Sacrifices are needed to save others. You had to sacrifice someone to save others. We can't change it but we can atleast try to save everyone. We have to spread humanity, save others and guide others to have hope to create a paradise but also accept sacrifices. Without humanity no one can create a better world. I mean without understanding others and without changing everyone. You can't create a better world. Changing in a right path to someone can't be succeeded. Because nothing is right in this world. Something is right for someone are not right for others. But we can try or hope to change world with humanity, saving others or guiding others to understand the shared emotion or nature of every human or in this case every beings. Everyone has different way to reach their path and they are conflicting also. But this hope or try of better world can find path through these all conflicting ideals but it always needed humanity. But in the end, we can't save everyone but we can enjoy this world. We can even enjoy or find beauty even ugliness of humanity. He becomes one of the best hero in ubw route which didn't consider anyone evil and know how it is a difficult to consider someone true sinner. He will guide them in their own terms but also teach them the importance of humanity. So that they never forget their own humanity because he will not kill them but this world will definitely kill them. True paradise is only existed in infinity. But your effort to reach infinity can create a change. You never able to reach infinity but you definitely able to reach somewhere with help of your humanity. You definitely able to create a change which definitely create a better world but that world also create despair again in the long term. It is the true cycle of humanity and we had to follow it. That's why Emiya Shirou decided to fight for eternity because he understands the cycle of hope and despair or wishes and curses. He decided to accept both of them and find beauty in both of them. So that he can guide humans with light of hope in despair because both hope and despair is essential in human life. They will solve their mistakes with them. They will perfected themselves with it where they started to understand each other's despair and hope. So that they can create a better world where they again started to stumble but this cycle itself is the source of life and happiness for them. The main core of madoka magica show is cycle of despair and hope in much more detail than fate stay night. Emiya Shirou also understand this cycle and accepted. It find this cycle itself is beautiful. Gen take a more optimistic path in madoka magica where main character was able to manipulate the fabric of time and created a fragile hope in the world. But Shirou take the more realistic approach and accepted every despair as his own main identity. It uses despair as guidance for humanity. Because of despair. They perfected their own mistake and create hope and this hope again created a despair. But this process of understanding our own mistakes is itself is satisfying and even beautiful just like this world. Well my comment become very long. Sorry for that 😢.
Kyubey induced feelings of confusion and despair but I don't think Kyubey created any kind of prolonged tension. He explained himself clearly and thus, established transparency. He revealed that he had no malicious intentions. There was a scene at the end of the PMMM TV Series where Homura and Kyubey were seen conversing with one another about Madoka. How could they converse with one another in such a relaxed state if Kyubey supposedly induces feelings of tension?
So THIS is why it didn't even stand up to surface level knowledge of entropy. (We still have a star. That's a couple MILLION years AT LEAST of stability before heat death
I thought it was much simpler than this. In the end, sacrificing yourself for the greater good is kinda pointless when you have no idea how you help or how you better the world. People sacrificing their own happiness for others is overrated, basically.
While I whole heartedly agree with how kuybey is a peice of shit and shouldn't do this to anyone? I still honestly think homura is no better because she's willing to damn humanity and rewrite the world so she can have modoka to herself. She's become what she hates because now? Madoka isn't a person. She's an object. And object being fought over and coveted by kubyey and homura.
This is something I've always wondered since energy cannot be created or destroyed and therefore can only change, even if all the atoms in the universe will eventually become so far apart from eachother that nothing can be done with that energy. Maybe I'm wrong though. It's why I suspected his claim was a lie.
Sister, whether this is just science we don't understand or Kyubey has access to supernatural powers, the point is that they convert emotions themselves into energy. An abstract concept into energy. They are basically using magic or at the very least breaking the laws of physics to do whatever they are doing.
this clarified the enthropy issue better......for him humans are just cattle, and he's basically saying "jeez!, you should be grateful we gave you the resources to survive and breed". He knows humans have a soul (even if according to him they don't use it or even feel it), he knows we have sentience, yet he chooses to use humans as a tool.
You hate him but without him you are nothing, True in the larger whole: he is why humanity exist Madoka: to everyone she think she is useless, and she doesn’t want to be like that with him
My personal interpretation of this is that Kyubey is not evil! I found the entire point of this series to be the exact opposite. Spirits that "interfere" with human affairs are seen as demons and evil, and the proof is the pain of life that ensues...but the solution here was the Magickal girl basically becoming a pre-primordial and destroying everything before it began to stop the world's pain. This is the ULTIMATE nihilistic view point, that all of life and being, and beings are meaningless worthless and certainly not worth the pain. To me this anime showcased how people who have a tendency to view spirits(gods, aliens, other beings) as evil are ultimately the biggest nihilists you can possibly be. To the point that they know better than God that the universe and pain its creation and expansion has caused are not worth while in any way. Therefore Kyubey is the ultimate good, and perhaps even God itself, if not at least some self aware piece of energy that makes up God/source. The tendency to atrophy of all things and the tendency of creation from that atrophy is life. It is our life. Kubey is God. Ave.
Wait, that's nice and dandy and all, but what's stupid about coobie's schemes? Well, some things might be, like they grant wishes that can influence themselves. But you didn't highlight that, did you? Neat analysis tho.
The scheme isn't what's "stupid", rather the answer is. Madoka asks one thing, but Kyubey deflects any responsibility for the suffering it causes by going into a greater good spiel. Kyubey doesn't actually care about informing Madoka of the truth behind its own actions, only about pushing her into a state of emotional vulnerability so that she'll make a wish, any wish. It's all part of the trap, and that's the point.
What the fuck is up with the rest of Generation Z and all of this casual psychological analysis and interpretive thought when I need psych meds just to stay awake.
Yeah they got the sign wrong. Entropy is constantly raising so they would need to lower it with the wishes in order to avoid the heat death of the universe. But the rest of the concept is valid.
