The Consumerism of Gender-Affirming Care with Leor Sapir | Episode 150 

The fact that treatment for detransition is denied is really important information to be aware of. Especially as it completely changes how claims of satisfaction and harm are calculated.

@@Gingerblaze exactly whynits denied, denying the request is a denial of harm and wrongdoing.

Wow!

It would not surprise me if insurance companies have a right to keep statistics secret for reasons of competition. Companies have so many rights that are beneficial to them but detrimental to citizens and to society as a whole. I understand that capitalism is very much better than Soviet style planned economy, but it needs to be tempered.

They’re happy. Until they’re not. Like when the initial testosterone rush wears off. Or when early osteoporosis and menopause sets in. And infections after double mastectomy. Or when they find out they’re sterilized. And can’t enjoy sex. And the ultimate letdown that when they realize that YOU CAN’T CHANGE GENDERS!

Thanks Earthling ~ not sure why I can’t see my response. Too harsh?

​@@pls444 Yes, I have heard all is positive until the euphoria wears of. Perhaps 25 year old Kayleigh Scott, a transgender flight attendant who was once featured in a United Airlines inclusivity video could comment. Maybe 24 year old Henry Berg-Brousseau, a deputy press secretary for the Human Rights Campaign will offer an opinion. Oops, nope neither will be answering. They killed themselves, like so many others these people have expressed their opinion. So too did Yaeli Martinez, 19, this adolescent chose to step in front of a train. The list of tragic outcomes of transgenderism is long (really long). They really suck at answering your happiness surveys or getting counted among the results.

@@pls444 do you know of any long term studies which evidence your claim? The longest one I could find did not demonstrate long term help and something like 50% were lost to follow up.

@ksn936 Agreed 👍 1. "It is up to us on the left to walk this thing back. I want liberals to make room for gender diversity -- and that includes masculine girls and feminine boys -- WITHOUT telling them they need to leave their sex category, because they are different." Lisa Selin Davis, Author of "Tomboy", In the trailer for the documentary, "No Way Back" (2023). 2. "And then I realized: They are sterilizing kids." Helen Joyce, interviewed by Richard Dawkins

To see áll 5 replies sofar, including the first reply -- that I dísagree with -- and the second, view this thread under comment option ✨newest✨ . (or on your laptop ✨newest first✨).

​@pls444You could ask lesbians like Julia Beck from the USA or Jenny Watson from the UK, whether the T is in perfect and peaceful harmony with the L .

Some statistics: Of the children who were being "transed" (=puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, surgery) at the Tavistock clinic (Gender Identity Developement Service): 80 to 90% were same sex attracted. 35% autistic. 70% had co-morbidities. Dennis Kavanagh (Gay Men's Network) and Andrew Doyle on GB News, 10 dec 2023. (I have not fact checked these statistics back to their original source myself. With my partial knowledge of the subject, I have the impression that the order of magnitude of these statistics is correct). @ksb935

Part of it is also the "everything to everyone" thinking. The way that people just don't understand that the "rights" of some actually DO infringe on the rights of others. A few years ago, a specific group staged protests demanding to have priority in youth mental health care. Priority as a group - not on an individual basis. A few daring reporters asked if that would not be detrimental to other youths in need of treatment. The protesters did not even understand the question, but said that they "only" wanted priority, not to infringe on anyone else's care, which shows a baffling incomprehension of the priority as a concept. If you are in a a queue, and suddenly thousands of other people get in the queue in front of you, you ARE losing. This happens all the time in emergency medical care, and if you go to the hospital with a fractured arm, and suddenly someone comes in with a heart attack, OF COURSE you are moved further back in the queue But to not UNDERSTAND what prioritising means is just baffling stupid. Giving men access to women-only spaces IS taking women-only spaces from women.

Thank you for your comment. We have a number of episodes coming up with doctors in various fields and we will be exploring this issue more! So definitely stay tuned!

In some places, you can loose custody of your child for denying GAC medical interventions. In the UK, a wife can be charged with spousal abuse for not financing or supporting a transitioning husband. (And vice versa)

@@Gingerblaze signs of a world gone mad!

@@Gingerblazeit’s the law in CA, OR and WA. 😢

And the gender medicine practitioners seem to be extremely adverse to collecting and analysing real evidence.

On your question "what happens if you don't medically intervene", I can give you some thoughts, which you would have to ➡️follow up yourself⬅️ if you want them fact-checked: 1. There should be old study(s) by Ken Zucker about "watchful waiting", that demonstrate that almost all kids grow out of their gender dysphoria by going through their natural puberty. (Haven't read them myself). I recall also seeing a while ago a similar German study. Both studies cover a long timespan before circa, say 2010. 2. The characteristics of the children who enter a gender clinic, also seem to indicate that whatchful waiting is a good idea; ánd doing a differential diagnosis ánd exploratory therapy, as mentioned in this podcast. These are the statistics for the UK given by Dennis Kavanagh from "the gay men's network": Of the children who were being "transed" (=puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, surgery) at the Tavistock clinic (Gender Identity Developement Service): 80 to 90% were same sex attracted. 35% autistic. 70% had co-morbidities. Dennis Kavanagh and Andrew Doyle on GB News, 10 dec 2023. (I have not fact checked these statistics back to their original source myself. With my partial knowledge of the subject, I have the impression that the order of magnitude of these statistics is correct). 3. Apologies for my vagueness, it is because of limits in time etc. probably you can find more on this in some wider lens podcasts, maybe one or two lectures in the "bigger picture conferences". Also you can look at statsforgender as a starting point for finding literature on this.

@@EarthlingEveryman-zv7bs Hi, yes, thank you, great references. The most recent one is Singh, Bradley, Zucker, 2021 which summarizes earlier ones, there is also Ristori & Steensma (2016) which does as well. One has to be a bit careful, it isn't like they all grow out of it at the onset of puberty, there isn't something special just at that moment, for some it is later, and can be at full adulthood. Also, many of the young boys (they were mostly boys) that didn't grow out of it had separation anxiety, which is now something that is coming up in the case studies of people who find out through therapy that their GD is being pushed by that. That is all to say that maybe some of those who didn't grow out of it might have been helped by therapy in that way. Who knows. But those are childhood onset. For adolescent onset...no one knows. There is a review by Kaltiala-Heino, 2018, very quotable: "However, virtually nothing is known regarding adolescent-onset GD, its progression and factors that influence the completion of the developmental tasks of adolescence among young people with GD and/or transgender identity. " I.e. no clue. they have no clue. It's not like--take insulin or you'll die. It's don't intervene and ummmm we don't know.

Do you yourself believe that there is such a thing as "true trans"?

Except there's an evergrowing epidemic of child trafficking in the world. Do you really think the so-called false memory business might just be a cover to mislead people and protect traffickers at high levels? I can assure you this is the case.

@@EarthlingEveryman-zv7bs I don’t know. But who am I to question someone who has such feelings? Not only are their feelings valid, no matter how consistent , but when consist over time, they probably are good candidates to transition if they choose too. But the surgeries and hormones do not create a perfect transition at current levels of technology. Let them live with what alterations they can have, after all, I alter myself with plum colored hair dye and pierced earrings. Less radical, but alterations just the same. However, with children, we might want to look for deeper wounds or needs before jumping in with both feet.

@@patriciaschultz3005 So you are worried about the children. How would you yourself cast that concern into protective medical guidelines, policy and law, if you were in charge?

@@EarthlingEveryman-zv7bs I’m old and just ran across this in the last couple of weeks. Over the last couple of years I’ve listened to some gay speakers and some asexual speakers, but the trans children is new to me. I’m better versed on narcissism. I lived somewhat isolated for many years. I occasionally saw what we called cross dressers back in my day. I never cared much about what people wore or did in the bedroom. But when involved in a restrictive religion, I spouted the group think that was inappropriate judgment and went against my internal beliefs. Finally left that behind and have been deconstructing since. This topic is educating me on more than my own instincts to not mind what people want and do. I’m just now seeing a depth and breadth to the feelings they must experience in all this, both adults and children. Shaping policy and law requires some careful consideration bringing balance to helping a child explore and heal painful abuses and still achieving their trans goals if that’s what they still want in the end. And parents rights in all of this. Wow! I understand that some parents are simply impossible to work with or even the problem , but when possible wouldn’t it be better to have the parents in the loop as supporters? How does law separate the 2 types of parents? Better informed and better thinkers need to solve this. I’m not qualified. Trans children strike a cord with me. When I was young I hid my abuse behind other things. That didn’t mean the other things were false, it simply meant that the worst of my abuse was too scary and shameful to talk about. In fact, I didn’t actually have the language for what I experienced. I was 22 before I learned the language. But I still didn’t have the help I needed even then. I was too numb to know how badly it impacted me and I didn’t see how many dysfunctional coping mechanisms came from all the abuse and the minimization of it. I don’t want to think we are too quick to transition a child without considering what else could be distressing them. Could there be more than one issue in play and a child might only express one of their concerns? If it’s acceptable to be trans then that is safe to express, while other worries or maybe some sort of actual abuse might not feel safe to express. So, I’m coloring this issue with my own past experiences. I wish I had had help as a child; help that took the time to get down to all that was happening in my life and family. Therapy is still helpful even now. But it doesn’t erase the years of my own dysfunction that impacted my life and those around me. Sorry for the long post. I wish I had more clear thoughts and a better answer to your question.

It's called The Memory Hole podcast, produced and hosted by Jena Martin.

From what we've seen, this was being normalized way before Ellen Page. People often point to Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner as the biggest turning point. But the normalization certainly has continued to expand since 2020 when Ellen became Elliot.

The only native speakers of English I've met who can pronounce Ы very well are also native Welsh speakers. And by the way, I've moved to the UK at age of 18 and am told I barely have an accent, and some people can't hear an accent at all. Personally, I can absolutely hear I don't sound native, but others are regularly surprised I'm not English. I think it has more to do with the ability to hear small tonal shifts and natural tendency to imitate. I've always had that, so learning to sound like a native English speaker was a fun game to me. It think it's more like learning to handstand, most people have the ability to do it, but most also have no interest in it and won't tolerate the training.

It's the end of the critical period for language acquisition, during which children can easily learn to replicate the phonemes they hear. There's a good book by Steven Pinker about this. The adult brain is so, so different from the child brain.

@@balalaika852I lived in the USSR when I was 11-12 and struggled to learn the pronunciation of that letter.

We are two highly educated and critically thinking parents and even we were overwhelmed by the medical and psychological and school resources who were unanimous in asserting that we had to affirm our teen daughter's male identity, which she declared in the ER in an anorexic crisis, as part of her recovery from anorexia and just as being decent parents to a fragile kid. We did as instructed by the team who was saving her from death by self-restriction of nutrition. We fully accepted the social transition of our daughter to male. Luckily even the hard-core gender-affirming professionals said she had to stabilize her nutrition and fully recover medically before she could take testosterone, which bought us some time. Months later, when all the psychologists and psychiatrists were urging us to move forward with helping her to obtain the testosterone that she needed, we asked for their evidence that the off-label use of testosterone in adolescent females was safe and efficacious. We were sent the WPATH materials. We read the studies cited and found them ... inapposite and weak, but we also couldn't find medical sources contradicting what we were being told and our male-identified daughter believed. We read the endocrine society guidelines, which were (and are) bizarrely proscriptive and yet utterly unsupported, and all the articles about suicidality and vanishingly low rates of regret. We are still dragging our feet but also still on the conveyor belt toward hormones because our emotionally fragile and immature child is almost 16. We are so thankful that there is more available about the reality of WPATH, and the final report from the Cass Review, and better analysis on the absence of knowledge about regret rates, but we still need some good, clear warnings about health damage. And, as our kid is almost old enough to proceed without our consent, we need a sea-change in what the medical profession will prescribe and insurers will fund. It is madness. We parents need help.

What are the specifics that make Edwards-Leeper's approach stand out to you?

It's called The Memory Hole podcast.

@@widerlenspod Thank you very much

@@widerlenspod I have listened to it now and it is spookily similar to modern ideas around trans identities. I can draw a straight line between the Diane Ehrensaft of Satanic Panic and repressed memories and the Diane Ehrensaft of gender and very little has actually changed. There's an underlying arrogance too where only one possible diagnosis can explain everything and any doubts about said diagnosis is only further proof of how terrible the respressed S A/Gender dysphoria must be and how widespread the issue is in our society. It's always unfalsifiable. Anyway thank you very for the tip and the excellent content here and at Genspect.

I guess I should look it up, I just assumed there's a ع in there somewhere.

That would be hilarious 😂

Yes! عياد.

Interview starts at 7:48