Ep. 270 | The Scout Rifle Concept - Genius or Frankenstein Failure 

😂😂 You're not wrong.

All my rifles shoot one hole and they all do it on the first shot. 😁

@@biggs8729 mine too!!!! WOW! We’re twins

The all season tire is marketed like it's the 308 of tires. It fails where 308 succeeds.

@@newerest1 Yeah, I could agree with that.

The Goldie Locks of cartridge... It's just right 👍

*all weather

The 308 has been doing it for years, and it is still very relevant.

This is EXACTLY why I got my Savage Scout. PMAGS in a bolt action with both eyes open shooting is GOLD. I can carry it anywhere, reload fast, and 10 round PMAGS can deal with a bunch of Boars, wolves, black bear, etc. And for the LARP aspect, it takes PMAGS for the wolverines fantasy 😅. *edit* Hi-Lux 2-7x LER scope. Pretty sight picture + BDC option is made for .308 168 grain standard loads. Easy holdover.

I check the sub count every time and am consistently surprised (its not A LOT higher)

@@vettelover2009if I remember correctly Jeff wrote about how he viewed the scout concept. But I think he stated that this type of rifle is built pretty much to the taste of the end user

Likely because it was the only rifle that could be made to his weight specs. The 600 was 5.5 lbs. bare, so you could add a scope/sling and still come in under the 6.6 lb. requirements.

my family did more off roading than we did in our truck. awsome vehicle. we ripped off the front bumper going off roading. the peoples faces that pulled off to the side of the road because "it was to rough" were priceless.

Toyota Previa All Trac S/C FTW!

Mini vans are so slept on in the car world

I have an AR I SCOUT CONFIGURATION IN 7.62X39. WORKS WELL. ALSO AN M48 MAUSER IN SAME CONFIGURATION.

😮hh

😊 39:14 on

E😢

49:10 lmlnl

🎉🎉lea

Pretty sure that Cooper never served with the Border Patrol. Is it possible that you're maybe thinking of Bill Jordan?

Border Patrol and hunting in Africa definitely influenced his perspective, I have a couple just because it’s fun to run & gun with bolt guns 🤷‍♂️

Especially a titanium considering just how light those things can be, and it's going on a long-ish barrel.

Possibly. Compact overall length and low weight are arguably the two most important characteristics of a Scout rifle, and a suppressor negates both.

Doubtful. The scout concept isn't about extended contact and the consequent need to obscure from which direction the rounds originated.

@@gpearce11 SWS style integral suppressor would work well

Jeff Cooper would have scoffed at the idea of shoving a suppressor on a scout rifle.

LGS had a lefty one in stock. Of course, I was broke at the time...

i haven’t encountered anything mine couldn’t do. right bullet paired with practice can do everything you need.

Jim did run a Razor on a Ruger American so it's not out of character for him 🤣.

@@nuckyduk15 🤣🤣

Damn right you gotta love it., because that's really the smart way to do things. Makes a lot more sense than a $179 Simmons on a fine Weatherby...

@@ronkruchten5867 agreed!!!

That's how it should be

Mausers, Mosins, Arisaka, and now even the Carcano we're plentiful and around to be modified.

@@cpt.ed.powell and now they aren’t anymore, mostly because everyone and their dog modified them.

Dude they don't even have one on the table. I've come to the conclusion from watching enough of these that the guy on the right knows stuff. And the two clowns on the left. Don't know anything. But let's be clear, the thing on the table is not a scout rifle. A scout rifle should have iron sights, that does not appear to. It should have a forward mounted fast eye relief scope, that doesn't have one. I don't subscribe to the theory that a scout style rifle should have to have a 308. I actually think that the 300 WSM is fine, I think for many the 6.5 Creedmoor is enough. But let's be clear that thing has too many bullets, that big magazine takes up space which interferes with maneuverability and use, but also It's weight. The flashlight on it, carry one in the pack, or in your pocket. It's just taking weight. That's going to slow you down, You can't bring that gun up as quickly, It's also not going to be as balanced. Whoever put this gun together is a moron. An absolute moron.

Who made your barrel? I'd love a 13.7"-9" or a 14.5"

The "Ryan Scale" is the most precise of measures! Thanks for listening!

I ran my Marlin 30-30 with a scout scope for years and years for hunting up close in the brush. Only just changed it out as my old eyes needed something that picked up more light

Ruger American's are very good rifles.

Appreciate it! Thanks for listening!

Now that's one classy Scout Rifle!

That would be cool as hell. Had an old friend that hunted with a 308 m99. I have never seen one since. Would love to have one.

The Burris 2x7 has bdc holds and is better than the vortex

I looked at the 1-6, 1-8, and the 1-10x all of these do not have a parallax adjustment, I went with Vortex PST 2-10x FFP/MOA with side focus; my old eyes the why reason.

i think jeff cooper would choose an aimpoint for scout rifles if he lived today: infinite eye relief, faster target acquisition, more peripheral awareness, and still allows use of irons on a dead battery....

I did the same on my Win 30-30 I had a 4x pistol scope loved it

Mine was before red dots

Turns out that’s a fairly tall order. It’s not impossible but it’s tough if one doesn’t choose carefully.

@@me2bfc : Ruger American Predator with a cut down barrel or a Ruger compact and then add a crazy light Leupold scope - that might get you right at 7lbs.

@@perfect7liberty yea probably. IIRC even Steyr had trouble making the weight limit. I can't get too far into it. My 308 weighs nearly 11 lbs unloaded. Pretty fun to shoot though.

@@me2bfc Yeah it's particularly tough if you put big heavy scopes, lasers, and lights on the rifle.

I would like to bulk on of those. Just depends on the area. My “woods scout” is a marlin trapper in 45-70 with a IER 1-5x scope, ranger precision point stock, and a mloc flashlight. Figure it’s good for a charging bear and can reach to 150 yards for hunting.

But you’re vandalizing a piece of history that a mossberg mvp is only 600-800

@@baker90338 Depends on whether you're a shooter or collector.

It is hard not to wonder if Col. Cooper's idea didn't originate in part with the Lee-Enfield Mk. V No. I - a.k.a. the Jungle Carbine, since that late WW2 & early Cold War design checked off so many of the eventual boxes on Cooper's scout rifle concept. Other than mounting an optic conveniently, the Mk. V pretty much hit them all. And .303 British is ~ 90-95% the power of .308 Winchester, and has a proven track record of handling any game in N. America and much else around the world besides. And as you pointed out, if having .308 Winchester is of vital importance to you, simply get one of those Indian Ishapore Mk. Vs chambered in it from the factory.

No, the reasons Jeff Cooper said "bolt gun" was because: shortness of action [means less weight], rapidity of follow up shots [a competent bolt gun user can fire almost as fast as a semiauto in any gun w/ noticeable recoil because the bolty is using the recoil recovery for running the action] and RELIABILITY(reliability)RELIABILITY [the .mil correlation to real estate's "location, location, location..."] All this per the man who created the Scout Rifle concept.

Cooper actually favored the 7mmO8 if you look more into it.

Mossberg makes the MVP Scout, with or without the vortex scout scope.

Did you cut your barrel by chance? I'm looking to build a 308 or 7mm-08 predator as a woods gun but since I'm a lefty, I'm gonna cut the barrel to 18" and throw a LPVO on it.

The predator is a great woods gun. I loved mine other then the fact I was trying to make it do something it isn’t meant for. But as a no frills accurate hunting rifle, it’s great.

except now a gas gun is literally more reliable.

@duroisgawd no way. The quality semi autos are much more reliable these days I agree, but just by the very nature of semi autos there is still more room for mechanical failure with a semi auto than a bolt. Would I trust a quality semi auto for my only weapon? If it was my only option , then yes. Quality semi autos cost alot more the a good bolt gun so there is that factor as well. I have some good semi auto ar rifles 308. 5.56. And I have a few very good bolt guns . At least in my experience my Ar rifles have failed at times . My bolt guns have never blinked. Is the semi auto a better choice for combat , self defense? Obviously. But if you are in a shtf situation, no more sending you gun off for repair, no more places to get ammo, your left with the one firearm you ever going to have for the foreseeable or even permanent future? The bolt gun is more reliable.

@@rustyyates421 yeah but depending on the bolt gun, if you don't run that bolt right even it is prone to failure. I wonder how often you shoot? A good gas gun is unstoppable these days. Ammo could be the culprit in either platform.

@duroisgawd I shoot quite a bit and as I said already, the gas operated guns are very reliable. I also said none of them are perfect bolt or otherwise. I also said , that in a shtf situation , when there may not a way any longer to get parts for your gun, no longer able get guns repaired, it's everyone for themselves, that moderately priced bolt guns are still more reliable . Semi autos have come along way , but you still usually have to spend more money for them.

@duroisgawd truth. You have to run any gun correctly. All I'm saying is that when you do, bolt guns, while they have their disadvantages, are inherently more reliable. One major disadvantage is that bolt guns are usually limited to low cap mags. But a scout rifle uses higher cap mag. People can choose what they want to for any reason. Realistically, if it were in a shtf scenario, it's going to be whatever you have on hand or can get to at the time.

On that note; one that never took off but would fill this perfectly: 338 RCM

That was what he called the “Dragoon” I built one on a Yugoslav Mauser action. The really big bore was “baby” in 460 G&A.

@@HondoTrailside honestly I think THE very best cartridge for this platform is the granddaddy of most of our cherished cartridges. Including our 35 Whelen: 8x57

Mann had one built to Cooper's specs but admitted that the only way to really hit the requirements is to have a custom rifle made. @@nicks2581

Yes . Me too love my old 35 Remington. Very curious about the new 360. Wasn’t very impressed with the 350 legend.

@@buddy22801012 Good suggestion!

Thanks for the great topic suggestion and tuning in!

I think possibly the reason Cooper didn't like the AR is because the AR is a " Scout rifle" out of the box. Maybe throw on a scope. Best Wishes from Montana M.H

@Mike Hagan it had a lot to do with his disdain for the .223. At the time he was writing the Scout concept out, lightweight semiauto .308s or something similar hadn't come around. Even the AR-10s of the day were too heavy and Armalite wasn't exactly pumping them out. So the only good options were either a bolt action or a lever action on a diet.

@@mrflynn510 I believe you are correct. Though to me the idea of trying to achieve lightweight, mobile scout rifle. For the Mission of Noncontact scouting duties using a .308 is ludicrous. If ease of mobility is the goal. And unlikely to get resupplied if accidental contact is made. Then volume of rounds carried would be the key. Not a cartridge with longer effective range or greater penetration like a heavy .308. A scout could carry half again as many rounds in a .556. Witch is adequately powerful. Thanks for the comment and Best Wishes from Montana M.H

@Mike Hagan the other reason Cooper wanted .308 is because he expected the Scout rifle and it's user to be able to take game when needed. So the rifle and round needed to be able to break contact with an enemy or take game depending on the user's needs. As good as 5.56 is, there's not much above deer that most would want to use it for.

@@mrflynn510 I think you hit on the part of the Concept that doesn't make logical sense to me. Hunting large game while performing military scouting. The military mission would come first above hunting large game. If the area of the Mission required possible defense against Grizzlies or polar bears I am with Cooper on that. Or if part of that mission was to stay out in the field and sustain yourself off the land like " Castners Cutthroats " did in ww11. A .30 caliber would make sense. But even In Coopers time, there was the Garand, M14 and the FAL. Witch would be far better guns for defend and run tactics. These firearms were/are available and reliable even in harsh conditions. But as a scout do you really want the remnants of a large animal carcass for the enemy to know you are there? Or if you pull back to sustain yourself you could simply shoot an animal multiple times for a large animal takedown with a smaller cartridge. And still have more ammo per weight carried for your main mission of scouting and possible defense. Yes weight is always a factor. But Cooper's chosen weight for the rifle was arbitrary, though certainly a lighter firearm is a reasonable goal. And pushing the boundaries for such goals is a good thing. But choosing a Bolt gun is Folly given better choices at Coopers time as well as now. Not for a military scouting mission as a solo or very small obseration unit. Only by a chance set of circumstance would you be able to keep fire superiority if located by your enemy. I think Cooper said to justify the bolt gun. ( paraphrase) " That the scout is not seeking To make contact with the enemy, only to observe. The rifle would only be used to defend and break contact." But it still has the limitations of a bolt gun in a gunfight. Probably with multiple attackers. And whether a scout is intended to make contact or not doesn't matter a bit. The enemy is Always the one that Forces one to defend himself. I think the "Scout rifle concept" is another way of asking the very popular question, " if I could only have one rifle?" Well there is no one rifle that does it all well. Like shoes, vehicles or golf clubs. There is no perfect tool or piece of gear. To me the " Scout rifle concept " is like the firearms World's version of a wreck on the highway. You just have to look as you drive by. Buts it's still a Bad thing to look at. No disrespect to you or to Cooper. Its just my opinion. You made some valid points. And Cooper still has us talking today! Even long after he is gone. That's something! I enjoy the debate. Lots of Fun. Best Wishes to you and Cooper both from Montana. M.H

I just posted something akin to your observation; sorry I did not see you had done it first.... I see the same lineage between the No. V Mk. I "Jungle Carbine" and Cooper's idea as you do. And you're right about the lack of being able to mount an optic: That's about all one of those would lack in comparison to a model scout rifle. Good luck finding a left-handed one, though; I don't think they came in anything but RH versions.... the jungle carbine, I mean...

i’ve hunted with mine for nine years. they probably make better rifles, but i don’t believe they make one as rugged.