Ep38 - Caitlin Kinnunen & Isabelle McCalla 

Emilyn that’s honestly amazing 😊❤️

@Anna Martin (Sorry-not-sorry in advance about the length of this response, lol) Agreed. Yeah I was thinking about that part too, and trying to articulate my thoughts. Even if we somehow reach a utopia of acceptance, labels will still be useful. Like it's fine if they haven't found the right label yet, or if they don't even want to label themselves... But don't avoid labeling yourself just because you're not peak gay. Diverse representation is important because not everyone fits the stereotypes or has the same experiences, and it's important that differences within the community are seen & heard. Their (Izzy & Caitlin's) orientations are valid, even if they haven't settled on a term. Just today, I was asking someone how to refer to some people he knows. Due to the context, I need to know their official names and pronouns, but I also want to use the preferred/identified names & pronouns when possible, to be respectful & supportive. (I'm trying to be vague for anonymity) He said that they both were born [ ] but identify as [ ], but that he "doesn't buy it... they're young... it's trendy..." No. It's not trendy. Just because they're not fully passing as their identified gender, or they don't fit all the gender expression/ expectations, doesn't mean it's a phase or a facade. It's just that in previous decades, if you could pass, you did. Most of the people that were willing to live their truth and pave the way, didn't really have much choice...so they might as well be fully themselves. Or they were just badass and didn't care what anyone thought...or some of both. But now, it's more accepted & allowed, so people who might've tried to unhappily "fit in" in previous decades, are now more willing to take the risk of being their authentic, nuanced selves. So it just *seems* like there's more LGBTQ+ people, and that sexuality & gender are more complicated now, but it's just that we are more aware of the complicatedness of it than we used to be. Granted, I catch myself thinking stuff like that sometimes too. (Equating gender presentation with gender identity.) I wondered if someone less "femme-presenting" should have been cast as the non-binary character Syd on ODAAT. (For reference, I am cis) Then I saw something online from a non-binary person saying they appreciated seeing themselves reflected in the role... they appreciated the long ponytail, because non-binary doesn't equal androgynous. And I thought, "Yeah they're absolutely right! This is actually a great example of showing varied experiences." And on Syd's first season, Elena was like, "I wanna call you my girlfriend, but not if it makes you uncomfortable. So what should I call you?" And Syd was like, "Thank you. I don't know yet. For now, you can call me girlfriend, but let's revisit this later." And then they did, in fact, revisit it later. I appreciated that the writers chose to address it upfront, while realizing that they didn't have all the answers yet, and take the time to do their homework. And it also shows that IRL, people don't necessarily have all their own stuff figured out yet. So if I had said that it was "definitely problematic representation" just because the actress didn't fit my expectations, then I would've been speaking out of turn, since I'm no expert, and it's not my identity. (But that character and that fan don't represent the *entire* non-binary community either.) To the original point of Izzy and Caitlin not feeling oppressed or qualified to identify as or speak as part of the LGBTQ community... As a bi ace who doesn't date, I sometimes feel like I'm not queer enough (or straight enough). I try to avoid speaking on behalf of the LGBT+ community as if my own experiences were the norm. I try to listen and learn from other people's opinions & experiences, and when I do sort of speak for other identities or the collective group, I try to present it as my own perspective. I also have the privileges of being straight-passing and white. And even though my Christian family isn't exactly waving the PFLAG, so to speak, they've handled it well. They love and accept me for me, and they understand that I am still a Christian, even though many of my views have shifted progressive. Even if I had come out before or during college, they would *not* have kicked me out or cut me off. So, just because I haven't received bullying, discrimination, oppression, etc doesn't make my experiences, labels, observations, opinions, etc any less valid. (It also doesn't even mean that I haven't struggled. The closet is stifling, even if you're not having to lie or hide a relationship.) It just means I have to be more aware, considerate, & inclusive of other people within the community. And I have faith in Izzy & Caitlin to be able to do the same. Own your identity, while not speaking as a representative/token of the overall group. (When I started having crushes on girls, I was like, "but I like guys; I'm not gay." Because I didn't know the concept of bi until 2 years later. And then I was disappointed cuz I wanted to explain it away. So then I tried "but I'm a Christian" because I thought that LGBT people couldn't be genuine Christians. That awareness (and later, acceptance) took longer to come about. And I still didn't know about asexuality yet. Without representation and awareness, people feel like something's wrong with themselves (or those "weird other people") until you hear about it and realize that it's valid.)

@Anna Martin Yay! Great minds think alike, lol. You know, I think I've noticed that too. I kinda forgot that this interview was from 2 months ago.

@Emilyn so glad it went smoothly! Reminds me of Sara Ramirez's story at 2:45 of this video. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rukZJGbbMvE.html

@Anna Martin Cool! I'll have to check that out.

A tip : watch series on flixzone. Me and my gf have been using them for watching a lot of movies lately.

Pro tip: watch movies at flixzone. I've been using them for watching all kinds of movies during the lockdown.

@Crew Karson yea, been using Flixzone} for years myself :)

@Crew Karson Yup, I have been watching on flixzone} for since november myself :D

Really? Does it help them get more followers or what?

@@TheTheatrePodcast No. He's just a weirdo, but I love him anyway!