Great job David. You've made me remember why I love vinyl so much--physical control of the way it sounds. I carefully clean my records with a formula of my own making so as to ensure that ALL debris and static has been neutralised and I use the cartridge of my choice. I listen to alot of mono so I have a specific cartridge for that-much to the chagrin of my beautiful wife. Since this whole conversation started, I have been listening to the Pink Floyd Dark Side Of The Moon record I purchased in 1973 and appreciate it now more than ever. Thank you so much!
Love your reflection. It just hit me how much we can’t control that activity that gets it on the vinyl yet we have more flexibility in the analog domain vs digital at home. Thanks for watching!
You need to know if the SACD was made from a PCM file converyed to DSD. Also a better quality SACD player with much higher sampling rates can make a BIG difference in sound.
All of the MFSL One Steps came from DSD256 (4xDSD). In Mike's E interview with Mofi engineers they said that at the end of video. And I see in comments DXD - its not DXD (Digital eXtreme Definition) but DSD (Direct Stream Digital)! Don't confuse those formats - they are entirely different.
Thank you so much for doing this David! I have to admit I was a bit surprised that the difference was so noticeable and your point about comparing apples to apples (analog vs. DSD file source) is well taken...that could explain the stark difference. I am a scientist by training, as such I know the value of statistics. Maybe what is needed is a larger sample size, i.e. more of these H2H shootouts where both the vinyl (especially One-Steps given the huge price differential) and the SACD versions are directly compared. BTW - I very much appreciate having such an experienced and well spoken fellow Texan contribute so much to the VC!
Thank you David another fantastic review I went back and reviewed the video that Mike shot the other day with the guys from Mobile Fidelity. I thought Mike did a fine job and if you notice at 49.10 Mike asks are all the one steps DSD transfers and the reply was yes .So David as the guys in the interview explained even though they have access to original master tapes like Warner Brothers they still need to use the digital process to get the best results . Thank you one again for your review it is comforting to know One Steps are that good cheers Carl .
Thanks Carl, you’re right but for my sensibilities given the vagueness over time there were just some responses that seemed too general like that one so (for me) until I see it in writing and know their legal approved it, I have to take the “I can’t be 100% sure”. I just don’t want to be accused on making a statement on behalf of an interview with people who made comments on video several years ago saying just the opposite. “Trust but verify” Cheers and thanks for watching and commenting. Now back to listen to MOFI :)
Nothing beats a proper SACD player (one that plays back DSD, not PCM) with its 120 + db dynamic range, FULL frequency range (unlike vinyl) and monster 64DSD sample rate with all its wealth of detail.
I guess you are right, the Oppo Player is way to weak in this chain, with a great dac in the chain or sacd player with a great dac I guess you wouldn´t have that result. Sure there are not many who can handle the sacd dac connection because of the encryption but as far as I know PSaudio and PlaybackDesign can handle it or something like the Luxman can handle it by himself. All of them are expensive but a great turntable chain is also not cheap. Maybe vinyl would still win because we don´t know what work (good or bad) was done with the sacd but it would be a bit more realistic
DSD really is that good. Have bought some DSD256 Jazz albums, mhmm. But make sure they are properly played, not as p m, here the Topping 10s shows when playing propor.
I have very good audio equipment too. But, I’m more into the song or album than how it sounds. Audiophiles are starting to get on my last nerve. Just enjoy the music. I know some records sound better than others. It depends on how how they were originally mastered. This is a fact. Some of the new releases I buy sound better than others. This is how it’s always been.
@@tturner12341 Audiophiles don't seem to get it. One guy arguing with me that the "sound " and the music are one in the same. I realized they don't get it. I enjoyed the music just as much when I was 12 listening on a hand held AM radio. "My Girl" (Temptations) say's the same thing as on a 1/2 million dollar system.
@jack so by being transparent and detailing what equipment I used, that leads to me “listening to my equipment”? I listen to music Through my equipment. And anyone can tell, with my meager equipment listed, I hardly rank as an “audiophile”. My video was comparing what I heard and which format sounded best on my system.
Regarding your comment on Mofi "coming clean" on the sourcing for all of their catalog, past and present, I am with you 1000%. According to the video posted by Mr. Esposito, Mofi told him that starting very soon (if not already) Mofi is going to have sourcing data on all of their LPs up on the MoFi website. Hopefully this is available soon. Cheers!
It depends A LOT on the vinyl source (turntable/tonearm/ cartridge/ phono preamp) vs the CD player (Transport + Dac, or, with Naim Audio, CD player + Power Supply) that you use. I own an Oppo for my AV system and I like it very much, but my Naim CDS2, in my audio-only system, is a world apart in sound quality -and cost.
I am sure there are higher priced alternatives to my Oppo but they are considered a good value if one wants to spend under $750USD. No guess the Naim is over $1000USD.
Great video! I had the same comparison thoughts as you did. I ordered several SACD titles to compare with the One Steps I already own. I specifically purchased the SACDs we know from the In Groove video were digital sources on the One Steps. I look forward to comparing. I do have a CD transport with severals DACs so I can also compare to see how that makes a difference in the digital space similar to the point you made about changing cartridges! Keep up the great content! I just subscribed!
I like A&B comparison while playing the same thing at the same time and toggling back and forth between the to is the best way to hear a difference. That is how I do it also to determine whether the vinyl or CD sounds better. I am not going to wear my stylus out on vinyl that does not sound better than its CD counterpart. Vinyl wins 97% of the time or more!
Yep, for $60 (in today's dollars) we should get all One Steps with the Super Vinyl formula. No tape to wear out, just make a bunch of Lacquers. Then go back and make more. Drop the extra packaging.
Thank you for the excellent video and valuable comparison. I am an SA-CD fan and am a little disappointed it did not sound better,, though I prefer when they are multi-channel (quad or 5.1) which THE EAGLES deserves and was never issued in any way to this date. Maybe it just cannot be expanded that way, even with the arrival of Dolby Atmos and DTS: X. Some of the new stereo MoFi SA-CDs have been great, others a little off, so maybe they are having some issue at times with their SA-CD production?
Today You can also get 4K quality by buying an Ultra HD blu-ray player. and buy Ultra HD blu-ray movies. And they also often have support for playing hi-res music
Yes DACs can vary the sound, but from my experience, it takes a lot more $$ in DAC upgrades to hear as tangible of a difference vs a cartridge change for vinyl.
Unfortunately, it's not really comparable because on the SACD it's DSD64 but what they talk about in the interview is DSD256. and it's only available as a download basically. I saw that there were Eagles with DSD128 but it was on Japanese and Indian websites. or web pages that partially write in Japanese
Never bought any mofi releases. Too expensive for me and their sources were too vague. I like acoustic sounds releases. Chad is very transparent about his sources and his processes and he's more affordable. On another note I have the Eagles greatest hits 71-75 reissue on vinyl. Not the greatest pressing but it still sounds better than the cd. I can really hear the banjo as well. Great video!!
Maybe we need to hear how a CD being decoded on a quality CD transport then going into a quality DAC sounds like. Who knows, maybe it is better than a stand alone run of the mill CD player... I just cant imagine spending big bucks on anything digital... but...
@@Brian-qg8dg I have nothing against digital. When I was growing up digital was still very expensive. Tapes and LP's were what I grew up with. Digital is more practical for some things. Like I can't play records in my car for example. So it's great for those things. When I was finally able to afford a cd player I was disappointed. It just seemed like something was missing. It wasn't just the absence of surface noise or tape hiss. Especially with classical music. I know that based on the stats digital blows analog out. But I don't listen to stats when I am playing an album. I don't know if it's the mastering of digital or if it's the medium itself. I don't know. I quit buying music when cassette tapes and vinyl were going out. It seemed at that point that music was becoming a cheap commodity rather than an art form.
Funny how this MoFi thing has brought out the hate between audiophiles and non. I many times have accused audiophiles of listening to the sound rather than the music. We really shouldn't generalize so much. I have audiophile tendicies but I've never considered myself one. Since playing guitar is one of my favorite hobbies I think the music is more important than the sound, but I still appreciate and enjoy a better sound reproduction. And lots of people don't understand records. If I listen to music without focusing on the format, for some unconsience reason a record has a very different effect than a CD. It's not whether it was tape or DSD but it's the end user product where we enjoy vinyl over CD. Nothing to do with the ritual of cleaning, seeing the record spin, setting the needle down etc. For us older listeners I'm sure some nostalgia enters in but on an unconscience level the record seems to have a more satisfying sound. I even get that for some their "system" is the hobby, that's ok too.
Hi, I was actually looking for a comparison between the MoFi release and the 180g Legacy vinyl which I already have. To purchase the one Step now, esp here in Europe, would be a 250 USD Investment. I listened to the Legacy edition and it is very clean and quiet. Did you listen to those to in some form of comparison? Thank You!
New to your channel. Terrific video. All these other guys out there saying well why buy the one step when you can buy the sacd, etc.....and well now that we know it has the digital step, well we assume so from Mike E's interview, then "it is not worth the $125" . They've all missed the point! The record sounds killer, buy it and enjoy it!! Get over it!! It is all about the sound for me.
Hi David, first time watching your channel. It's really good to see someone talking about the serious limitations of SACD. As a big adopter of the format from when it came out, I have always been disappointed in the closed nature of SACD. Because of it is heavily copy protected, you are limited in playing them on old obsolete players, without the option of streaming the signal to a high quality DAC to get the best from them. I don't know how good that Eagles SACD sounds compared to your One-Step LP but you don't really either, because of the limited play back equipment you are forced to use. I have a large collection of SACD's and a $6K player that I purchased almost 10 years ago. Its sounds great, but since the format is locked, I cant "add spice to it" as you alluded to with vinyl. As a result of all this, I think the SACD thing is a moot point, because of its limitations. However, it does open the door to direct comparison of DSD files played through a modern high end DAC. That would yield a much more intriguing comparison, in my opinion. Cheers.
Great synopsis and additional perspective of the limitations copy protection schema can add to the real experience of the sound of SACD. I’m sure you meant I don’t know how well an untainted SACD would sound vs. the One Step but that’s a mute point if I can’t purchase that end reality. Tonight after playing Take It Easy on the SACD and then I put a light blanket over my speakers and played the One-Step. Now they sounded much closer to each other, although the vinyl bottom end was still great. The mids and highs are washed out on the SACD. Thanks for watching an commenting!
I’ve tried sacd several times, over time, with different players. Finally decided to drop it. Then, 2 years ago i bought a Sony brp as my dvdp had broken down. The sound i get from blu-ray discs is the closest to analog i’ve heard so far. The best thing: the player was only €100. Just saying. Anyway, keep on enjoying the music. After all, that’s what it’s all about!
@@SafeAndSoundTXAudioExcursion Well, it’s still too little. In my collection it’s some (crucial to me) Pink Floyd albums and some classical as well as electronic music titles. I hope that they’ll continue and expand on the format. It’s really good. Especially if it also contains video footage as with Pink Floyd.
Kudos to you to actually perform true AB testing on YT. Even though it's subjective it's still packs a punch when you tell people how you did that.. Good stuff. I'm a mid-60s guy am I hearing isn't too good so I kind of lost a passion of spending $150 for an album.. Although I still love to hear people talking about the technology curve. I know quite a few professional musicians, with pretty much excellent hearing . I've always heard them say that you cannot reproduce that live music sound and ambiance from electronics, Especially piano and strings...
Remember that development is moving forward on digital players. So better sound for the money. a $200 CD player is guaranteed to sound better than a $200 CD player 10 years ago. today's CD players can also have an input for USB memory to play hi-res files
The problem with SACD players is that the affordable ones are severely bottlenecked by the DAC inside them. This would be like complaining about the vinyl sounding bad when you're using a $10 phono cartridge. Best way to compare would be using a HDMI to i2s converter and running the cd player into a nice DAC like the denafrips pontus. Guaranteed Alot of those missing details will show right up.
So I guess my Oppo BDP-83 suffers from having a weak DAC? I guess I judged it by reviews and playing so many format discs well. Don’t really recall them touting the DAC and it’s obviously important.
@@SafeAndSoundTXAudioExcursion Yeah there's certainly a lot of fidelity being left on the table with your built-in DAC. Paul from PS audio does a video called "why don't DACs handle SACD's" where he briefly explains the problem of the proprietary sony chips that all SACD players had to have.
I would recommend using a GeerFab Audio D.BOB to send the DSD signal to DAC that supports DoP over the coaxial cable. This is what I do. Expensive unit but only way to get the signal to my DAC as it doesn't have i2s inputs.
DACs = Cartridges in the chain. Both will influence/color the sound to varying degrees (plus wires, preamps, amps), so there is no such things as a pure digital experience either. In the end, I care less about the source or medium (I use vinyl/CD/SACD/stream), I care about the sound. However, I do expect truth (or at least not intentional misrepresentation) in advertising.
Music Matters/ MOFI are bloated.. Too many people to pay. All about cost savings. If the Digital step was so good as they kept pointing out in the interview, then why not market such greatness. Market that they go to Sony with there laptop and record from the master. I am starting to think that they probably just get the digital file send to them or they have to go there to pick up.. Sure they are great engineers etc etc but... I'm no longer interested in them, but that's me. My original Van Halen records (which 1,2, and WACF sound great) will have to do.. hahah
Depends on the digital player you are using also. Does it convert? Anyway, it wouldnt surprise me that the Eagles One Step wins over the SACD. And, for me, that would be the deciding factor as to what I am going to purchase and listen to. Not whether I know if the product is aaa or 4xdsd sourced. Ive seen many folks write that they would have asked Mofi more/different/better questions than Mike. What questions would you have asked? Thanks for the video!
Aloha David, Thank you for the comparison. I do enjoy collecting record albums, but I'm not an audio file person, I have a basic Fluance rt85 turntable . I don't have tube amps also. When I hear the term Warm sound what does it mean, is it because it's from Analog or is it because a Stylus is physically touching the Vinyl to make a sound, Versus a laser touching the a compact disc to transfer that sound. Thank you again for sharing your comparison . Looking forward to seeing your other videos. I just subscribed today when your channel showed up on my feed. Mahalo Ed
Yea I am no fan of the packaging but seems Analogue Products does a similar thing with UHQR products. I thought the price was about right at $99.99 for the first few releases. MOFI charges $60+ for 2x45RPM regular releases.
@@SafeAndSoundTXAudioExcursion Actually Analogue P. says "if Mofi does and people pay, why not us?" and they create that even more! ridiculous packing with even a side wood like a book, but! at least AP includes the jacket with the artwork inside, like a real album. Overall I prefer a standard jacket with a decent price, like the AP beach boys.
And they can make more Lacquers for more One-Steps because there is no tape to worry about. Get rid of the limited crap and sell at a reasonable price.
@@Brian-qg8dg Exactly, all those expensive prices are based on just pure marketing. I bet licenses of that top albums are more expensive than others, but by example Intervention Records are great and prices are $40 for the LP and $30 for the SACD.
@@Brian-qg8dg I remember when I start to buy the MusicMatters at $39, later they scalp to $59, later $75, later Mofi enter with One steps to $125, later AP to $125, what's next? $300?
Depends how differently the MOFO DSD file was mastered for either Vinyl or SACD ???.. I'd want a download of the DSD files to play back from my Computer DAW's Pro Studio grade software, through any of my better quality USB audio interfaces [or older sound cards]... Then I think the DSD could be more fairly evaluated ???.. However, I don't know if any commercially available DSD download copies of master tapes are sold untouched, or also get some level of minimal remastering and tape hiss noise reduction ???????????... Unfortunately, along with Loudness War mastering, over use of digital noise reduction was another problem that plagued CDs - undermining their sound quality, and helping perpetuate the myth of innate digital inferiority...
There are a number of studios that represent the raw DSD file when you purchase but like you I'm not sure if DSD captures of Anologue original tapes are available. On DSD in general though, Octave records will tell you that for some unexplained reason DSD cut to vinyl sounds better "better" meaning not superior but to the human ear it is more pleasing to listen too. I have the same experience DSD files are often astonishing but also not that pleasing to the human ear fir enjoyment purposes.
Oh hey. Regarding your description of perceived mix quality. From your, 45 rpm vinyl. Compared to the,, SKCD--DSD disc difference. It sounds to me. From what you're describing. The 45 RPM,, Mastering Engineer. From your description. Sounds like he was having fun with his, Sontec EQ. And pulled out.. That which, spoke to you, jumped out, better. Because your description tells me. Additional EQ was tweaked in.. To get that heightened clarity and warmth. As that's what an excellent, disc mastering engineer should do. The digital disc was likely a straight transfer. From the stereo master mix media. Likely a straight, 1-to-1, digital transfer. With no added sauce and candy sprinkles. Like you. I do not possess an, high-cost, audiophile, playback system. It is recording studio quality. At the highest level. But not high-end esoteric.. And I tried something funny ones. That nearly made me vomit. So I was trying to archive some, 78 RPM and 45 RPM discs. To digital. And I thought.. Ha ha! I like records cut at, 1/2 speed. Why not try to play it back, at 1/2 speed? As transients, would track better. Well? I do not have a turntable. With a 50 pound platter. Nor do I have my turntable. Sitting on top of a, 500 pound, cement, monolith base. And the rumble frequency. Move right up there into the audible range that was all too clear! Ugh! Barf! Well… That didn't work out. Cut them at half speed. Don't play them back at half speed. While there was a difference in the sound of the transients. The rumble frequency was,, unusable, unbearable, unlistenable. Oh well. I tried. It was good for a laugh. It was a thought. I might try it again? If I had a 500 pound monolith or a 50 pound platter on cement. But I'm not going to pursue that. I'll have to be content. With playing back records at their proper speed. Well Tata, until next time! RemyRAD
I stopped buying "new" vinyl some years ago because I realised what I was listening to was not mastered from analogue tapes but a digital source - and it shows. In effect, a CD with pops and clicks, not to mention noisy vinyl as the compounds they are using these days are just ... noisy. As you used the Eagles first album as your comparison, I can only say that I too have a copy of the original vinyl and it sounds great - not fantastic, but still really good. The original mid-'80's CD release by comparison was shit, dull and lifeless. About 20 years ago while on a business trip to Japan I picked up the SHMCD of this album and it remains my go to source to this day - it sounds authentic, the range is incredible, nice heavy bass, good mid-rang and nicely rounded highs. This latest "scandal" comes as no surprise and it helps to ensure I will probably never buy "new" vinyl again because if MOFI can't be trusted, then no one can.
Sometimes its just to hard to find a clean enough vinyl pressing from the 60' or 70's, that is unless you want to spend crazy amounts. And then there still can be issues. I rarely play a modern reissue, but do from time to time. Latest: David Bowie TMWSTW.. I heard good things about the pressing. I don't have an original or mercury version, but it does sound good to my ears. The spotify version sounds pretty good too. Maybe my system or my ears are not good enough, maybe glad they are not. hahha
Oppo is not really a strong source, you need to have a player which has a great DAC or is able to send the signal to a great dac. The Oppo dac is not really great, its fine but far from the best. If you would use a 50$ turntable the experience wouldn´t be the same on the vinyl side too right? If your pre-/amp does the decoding it would also be very interesting what you are using. But good for you in mentioning what you are using and that you dont have the best gear. But what to do with your conclusion? You have a very good analog chain, but a weak sacd chain, so useless compare IMO. PSaudio and Playback Design are 2 I know who can handle the transport to their great DACs or a Luxman CD/SACD player which might have a great DAC itself. I think the problem is that we simply don´t know what we get and where it came from, in both formats. Mofi just was exposed, but we also don´t have enough info for that path of the SACD or any downloads we get in highres. What was the source for these, who did edit on top of it till the disc gets filled? I don´t think WE ever get a digital copy of that taken master dsd so whatever we buy, we don´t know where it came from
This test is flawed because vinyl playback technology has over 150 years of R&D making it very mature, but digital playback with only 40 years is in its infancy by comparison (especially DSD with only 23 years). Just consider how long it took digital cameras to surpass film…well our hearing is far more complex than our sight, so it will take digital audio longer to match and then surpass analogue. For example, it’s only been relatively recently that we’ve realised that the human ear is highly sensitive to errors in the time domain which can occur due to electrical noise in the circuit that disrupt the accuracy of DAC clocks. Thus, unless the streamer or SACD player has a super clean power supply in a *separate* box, galvanically isolated circuits, and shielding around the DAC then there’s no way it can ever compare favourably with vinyl. Therefore, a comparison today only makes sense with the best SACD player or streamer on the market, because your analogue gear (despite you calling it modest) is way better than your Oppo. But R&D into SACD’s is almost dead…the future for DSD is in streaming which overcomes the DSD64 limitation of SACD, allowing a more direct comparison with MOFI’s 4xDSD64 (DXD) as DSD512 and higher will be possible.
I honestly enjoyed your analysis and yes, analog is a “mature” industry. I thought Oppo was considered some of the top digital players when they were made. So what is the best SACD player or streamer?
@@SafeAndSoundTXAudioExcursion your Oppo BDP-83 was great for its time, but it came out only 10 years after SACD launched, so things have come a long way since. I think the future of CD/SACD is streaming i.e. burning the files to disc and storing them on a streamer. Today the best streamers are probably DIY streamers such as the one built by the “Real HiFi Help” channel. Checkout his video entitled “the world’s greatest streamer” or words to that effect. Connecting that streamer to a *native* DSD DAC (i.e. one that doesn’t use DSD over PCM) such as PlaybackDesigns MPD-8 Dream DAC is probably state of the art solution today. Alternatively feeding the MPD-8 from a good SACD transport such as PS Audio’s Perfect Wave SACD Transport might be a good out-of-the-box solution. That said, the MPD-8 can’t make use of PS-Audio’s I2S connection so perhaps pairing it with the Holo May DAC (which can support I2S) might be better as the May is the first R2R DAC to support DSD natively, plus it has an external power supply. Comparing any of these solutions against vinyl should make for a tighter race, but the best vinyl solution will still likely win. Give digital another 20-40 years and I think the gap could be so close that the current resurgence of vinyl will be in jeopardy given the high cost of audiophile vinyl.
I'm back again. I understand better. What you're looking for. Here's more my criteria.. While you are most definitely a vinyl enthusiast. Given the different ways. You get to tailor the sound. By swapping out your cartridges. That soothes your psyche. Here's my criteria. Coming from the control room side. Where all of these recordings originated. I want. As close as I can get. To the original master mix tape sound. And due to my criteria. That would really only be possible from a, DSD encoded disc. And not vinyl. Plainly, not vinyl. As that is not what the recording originated from. Except in certain other esoteric, circumstances. I.e., performance live, direct to, disc cutting lathe. Such as Mobile Fidelity Labs or perhaps Sheffield discs? When there was no, analog tape or digital recorder used. To originate, said recording performance. That then, gets transferred to vinyl. And so again. Going to vinyl. From such,, prerecorded material. Many modern recordings. Even if recorded on analog tape. Would then get transferred to, PCM digital. And PCM digital would be cut to vinyl. Leaving with that vinyl. Much of the PCM, artifacting. And that sonic character.. Etched into the vinyl. Which would not and does not sound. The way it did coming out of the,, audio console mixer. As it still has that, PCM rash. That one cannot itch away. From your vinyl record. And so I could understand your disappointment with that. But if it came from a, DSD master mix, digital recording? That is then transferred to vinyl. I would think you should have no problem with that, technical scenario? What say you? Personally. I would imagine. That 45 RPM, single step, vinyl release. Would personally be my favorite way. From vinyl. To listen to that release. I love stuff cut at, 45 RPM over that of, 33 1/3 RPM. For obvious reasons. As, I've had a few, 12 iinch, 45 RPM, releases. And they sound way better! From that of the same. At 33 1/3, of the same release. Hands down! Yeah brother! Closes to vinyl, yet! Now,, back in the late 1970s. One of my favorite, vinyl cuts. Was when I had, DMM or, Direct Metal Mastering. When they cut into a, copper disc and not lacquer. I had most of mine cut that way. Up through the 1980s. And I vastly more enjoy those, 33 1/3 vinyl pressed, releases. From a single step process.. Yeah buddy! Woo hoo! You don't find those anymore! Nobody's cutting to copper anymore! WTF with that? That was so much better sounding than cutting into lacquer.. I was having Europa Disc, cutting my stuff. Now what about those,, 1/2 speed, playback cuts? Those I also love. Even if they were going to, lacquer. But then you also found. They really didn't have a set standard. For transferring at 1/2 speed. With the, RIAA,, encoding curve. It was always a variation on a technical theme. And each mastering engineer. Would do their own technical tweaks on that. It's not like there was a standard filter specification for that. And would depend on the engineer and the cutter used. I think we all love talking shop. It's that undying passion we all have. Even if I am not a vinyl maven. But when it came to vinyl. These are the things that concern me. That I would have to specify. And to make certain it would sound the way I would approve. Because depending on how the source was originated. It could get overly metallic sounding. Where then. Lacquer would be the way to go. I can certainly understand your desire for, one step, process, stampers. Most of mine were one stop, short runs. And so a 3 step was not needed.. But could still be generated. From the 1 step, Stamper. If it hadn't gotten broken or damaged. And let's face it. While I am a real,, recording engineer/producer. I have found many Mastering guys. To kind of be.... Frustrated recording engineers in their own right.. And as Mastering Engineers. They get to take their poetic license. And play with their toys. To tweak the sound of your recordings. And because they paid a lot of money. For their equalizers and dynamic range processors. What kind of amps and cutterhead's they were using. And where they cooling their cutterhead's with,, liquid helium or liquid nitrogen? -Do you like your vinyl coming from, Neumann or old Scully cutters? Certainly not a Presto. Though I know those that have that They think that they are groovy. With a regular screw. And no computer screwing it. Honest. I'm not trying to be a heretic here. Or, kiss on your parade. Because I'm definitely not the audiophile, you are. I'm just the engineer.. Now, did I have a fair amount of vinyl cut from, 44.1 kHz, 16 bit, PCM? You betcha! Back in the 1980s.. When I stopped delivering from my, 1 quarter-inch and 1/2 inch, custom Scully 280 B's. (Last and latest versions). Though some did come from my original, Scully 280 version A's. Both with, germanium versions and silicon versions. Which had more color than the, B''s. And do you prefer recordings that came from, Neve, API, MCI,, SSL, Sphere, EMI, Flickinger,, Neumann, audio consoles? Personally I'm not a big MCI fan. Though, I've used them, I serviced them. I modified them. And they still were never my favorite. Now when vinyl is cut from, analog mag tape. What analog tape machine, did you like the sound of, best? Most use, Studer A--80, playback machines. But plenty used, Scully and Ampex. MCI also. No one ever used 3M machines to playback from. To the best of my knowledge. Due to certain technical issues. With a preview head. Now, if I were you. I would have some issues if… Some guys playing back from analog tape. Started using a, PCM based,, digital delay, output. To cut the vinyl with. In lieu of using, a preview head on the recorder. So the recorder output, directly controlled the, cutting computer. With the signal then coming from the,, PCM delay device. As that would not be my, first choice. For a superior vinyl cut. But plenty were cut in that fashion. Of this I know. At a point in time. And might even be more prevalent now? I haven't really kept up with all of this. I pretty much walked away from vinyl. But I do have to archive from vinyl to digital. For clients of mine.. And historic antique recordings. Largely all from, 78 RPM discs. Beats the hell through the years. Generally requiring some, sophisticated software cleanup. And I've heard some pretty awful audible, results from others of that. " Oh my God! Listen to that awful noise reduction artifacting! Ugh!" But hey. Some of that noise gets pretty awful. And I don't care how expensive their software noise reduction package was! What were they, deaf? Deaf. They had to be! As you can't just click a preset! Those presets are always too heavy-handed sounding. They are so over-the-top! Do it in more than one process pass if you have to! But they don't. They are professional amateurs. So really I haven't played with vinyl for years. As for some time. I had a cartridge. That was neither, moving magnet nor moving coil. It was electret. And required no,, .047 µF resonance capacitor. And I love that cartridge and stylus. But that company went out of business. I forget was it ADC? I forget? I was bummed. When no other styluses were made available. Maybe it was issues with the, beryllium cantilever? Or they just didn't sell enough? One playback preamp I got was sort of fun. It was an, EMT. I want to say 900 series? EMT made great stuff. I loved my plate reverbs. They made a great PDM limiter.. That were popular for disc mastering. I never had one of those myself. I had similar types made by, PYE of Great Britain. They were cool but not my favorite. They had a 15 kHz cut off.. And I was young enough to hear the difference. And said screw that! I want that extended upper octave! I don't care what the preemphasis curve is! And how much hotter you could cut the disc. With that upper octave missing. Sheesh! No one else would know the difference except me. As I wanted the utmost in excellence. So don't cut me down! When you're cutting me. I had my circumcision! And I don't need, another! I mean the nerve of some people! Alrighty then. I've said my blather. RemyRAD
Are you sure you listened to the sacd layer and not the regular cd layer if it is a hybrid disc. Then the SACD player should cost the same as the record player and be manufactured in the same year for it to be really comparable
I get your point about which layer is playing. Maybe you can help me diagnose? My system is not multi-channel but 2 channel stereo through analog (RCA) outputs from the Oppo to the NAD receiver (no optical cable used) as the NAD is pure analog. While the setup screen shows “SACD Output” set to “DSD”, the display menu when playing the disc shows SACD PCM.
I have been in recording studios where the engineer burned a CD from the master and then played back both the cd and master on his studio gear, toggling back and forth. They were identical. My takeaway is that a CD is a near-perfect reproduction of a master. Records sound "better" because they take that sound and add sonic distortion. Much like a strat through a tube screamer...only more subtle. A vinyl album isn't as accurate a repro of the master as a cd is. Each tonearm sounds different and each cartridge sounds different. If true uncolored music...as it sounded in the recording studio..is your thing, then digital is going to deliver than in spades over records. My point is this....the purist approach that some vinyl fans take is really a contradiction. In 2022...digital is more true to the source.
I find that a bit hard to believe. I've taken high resolution files and down converted them to 44.1kHz/16 bit and you can hear a difference. I've also taken an analog source and feed it into a Benchmark ADC1->DAC and could hear the difference using different sample rates. For one the sound stage changes. That is not to say that a well recorded album on 44.1kHz/16bit can't sound fabulous, it can; however, my best sounding content is using DSD. I've acquired a few titles that been recorded in 4xDSD and they sound fabulous. I don't own a turntable; however, I would love to have to have one -- it would just be too costly to have.
It would be great to know what type of DAC you’ve used for the SACD…did you actually listen to the SACD/DSD or is your system actually just converting DSD to PCM in the player, then, pumping a chip DAC conversion to your pre-amp. Here’s what I’m saying… folks who invest in digital system spend big bucks to ensure they get the best quality from the dsd decode, just as you spend a pretty penny to set up a high quality turn table system to play back your vinyl disc. If your shoot out does not include the quality components to play back the SACD, you’ve just “played around” with it. Imagine trying to listen to a selection played back with Wilson audio chronosonic speakers coupled with boulder amp…etc… across a RU-vid video presentation. Then you walk into a showroom, listen to the same selection across a full Martin Logan / MacIntosh Labs set up… and conclude… “well, gosh, this martin Logan/MacIntosh set up just blows away that Wilson /Boulder presentation!” Of course you wouldn’t do that… so why compare a SACD presentation not set up for very best play back against a vinyl presentation set up for very best play back. My point…it just doesn’t add up to a credible conclusion
I have an Oppo BDP-83 and use it’s internal DAC and I used the analog outputs. During the initial test, it was flipping to PCM but when I removed the HDMI cable on the Oppo connected to the TV for display purposes only and replaced it with a video out, the Oppo then routed DSD to the analog connections. While this was an improvement, I stand by the One-Step vinyl providing a more pleasant sonic experience.
@@SafeAndSoundTXAudioExcursion - how cool is that? I didn’t know the 83 could do that! I have the same player! ( but just use it for Blu-ray / /dvd playback.) Sounds like you went to good lengths to vet your conclusion . I value that opinion and effort my friend. In the future, you may find a higher end DAC or an external “field programmable array” (FPGA) ladder DAC device might charge your conclusion if you have opportunity to experience it, Thank you for entertaining my comments and sharing your experiences with me and your fans. I enjoy your work.
Doesn't your pre digital records, even 3rd or 4th etc pressing seem to sound just a bit better now. hahahah They never sounded that bad in the first place. Knowing that your whole stereo system chain is analog is comforting.
I do not think your sacd player plays back DSD. I would think u can not do the comparison u aimed to perform. Now, can you hear the difference between DSD and PCM...who knows if u can. Just like pbono player quality....I'm sure a higher quality digital playback device will also make a difference...imagine playing your one step on a 50 dollar cartridge. You would probably conclude that the one step isn't worth it. Compared....you have a cheap SACD player relatively, which doesn't even playback native DSD
Yep. I still couldnt imagine spending big bucks on a high quality CD Transport or SACD player for digital playback. These files should be available to purchase, then played on high end DAC's IDK, I not into all this digital playback. Spotify seems to work fine for car and casual listening. Vinyl is the only way to go when in the mood to ne dedicated to listening to music.. I think hahah
Yes, this was my first thought. How much is your turntable setup worth? If it's considerably more than $400 then it's not a fair comparison. Maybe get a 400 bucks turntable and then do the test, I have a feeling the winner might be different.
Well, at least you know to stop wasting your time with digital formats. My experience differs as my digital front end is far beyond the Best Buy Magnolia level. Vinyl albums are cool (who would think dragging a rock over plastic could sound so good) but even DSD, not to mention the vastly super DXD is far more than is needed to faithfully and accurately capture any Master Tape from that Era. My banjos are clear and present on both, so it my be a source balance issue, the oppo is a BR player so you my want to check your settings to see that the Sacd parameters are set to desired playback. Ie; not optimal for say surround, which may put the absent banjos to your (I'm assuming non existent, rear speakers.) Spin on you crazy diamonds.
Great video! I laugh every time someone says that cd's are more accurate.Who gives a twang.Vinyl is more satisfying, more engaging, spatially superior in height, width and depth.Your not made of ones and zeros.You are an Analog being.So is vinyl.
If digital wouldn´t be able to store EYERTHING that came from the master then I guess they wouldn´t use it right? What happens in the process of the sacd production or that file we are allowed to download is a different story, unqualified hand can ruin that till it gets on the disc. But the mofi story shows that this form of digital storage is great, a reproduction of that digital chain back to analog can be done by a great dac chain too and then I think you have zero chance that vinyl is winning, not losing but simply not winning, both would sound great. Go to someone with a Playback Design chain and play your SACD there, if the disc was done well you would be more than happy and wouldn´t miss a thing but the Oppo as a source player is not good enough sorry
The problem is thet you use a cheap sacd player. your turtable/pre phone sistem is better. Unfortunatly it's necessary a sacd player of high level for a better sond again a turtable. A Sacd player can't use an external dac. Very few people has a good SACD player. It' a necessary a Top level Marantz or an Esoteric or a DCS to obtsin a sound like a good turntable.
The Oppo BDP-83 was about a $600 player new. Certainly not high end but a well respected brand for the money. I did find last week that the unit was switching back to PCM vs DSD due to HDMI being connected to the TV for display purposes and foolingmthemun8t to think it’s as a 5.1 connection so it tried to flow DSD to it and switched analog to PCM. This did improve the experience with SACD to make it closer to the vinyl. But I still prefer the vinyl sound. Can’t afford those people high end SACD Players.
Why would you buy a one-step when you have the original and the SA-CD? With a native DSD source the SA-CD seems the logical choice. MO-FI lied by omission and should be punished as such. Do not buy any more of their products. That they will respond to. They are way over priced anyway. Have not bought anything from them since the '80s.
...hmmm, but as far as Michael Fremer communicated, the supicious records are transferred from DXD, wich has FAR mor resolution than SACD, and for the moment we can hope as well, that "only" SONY sourced records are affected.
