Episode 38: Perkins Engineering Twin Throttle Holden Engine on the Dyno 

It’s a sweet note!!

Many thanks, all going great!

Ripper engines!

I noticed a substantial lag on decelerate. I assume this dyno is acting like a huge flywheel in the footage? Engine appeared to lag massively on both up & down revs. Is this typical of dynos then & now?

Impala SS 409. : )

Apart from many other engines.

Yep Aussie motor in an Aussie car - can’t beat that !

@@ianbertenshaw4350 Agree on that one but they shut everything and outsourced.

Lingenfelter LS with a flat plane crank?

I second that motion! Larrry wrote the final chapter on race prepping our little homegrown screamer 5.0L for power, economy & durability. Any insight from Larry on how he blew the rest of the V8 world away with a little old Holden would have to be gold. Larry had the last say at Bathurst with such things. A detailed docco or a nice book on what he did to strengthen these amazing little powerplants would get my money.

Would get my money as well. I’m enamored with this amazing engine.

Not too bad!

Thanks for watching!

Thats it!!

Yeah I dont have enough props for that unfortunately

Would love to hear that thing at full noise.

How good!!

You’re welcome!

Thanks 👍

Cheers Patrick!!!

Many thanks!

lol

It’s the firing order Holden picked. They knew how, among others things, to make it sound the best. All those US motors are only truck engines and they sound like it. You can hear the difference between the 253 and the 308, the smaller motor sounds even sweeter. Jeff

The current Chev sounds great with cross over header pipes!

Sweet sound isn't it! Cheers!

Cheers

Cheers!

Cheers!

Cheers

Indeed!

That's interesting, hopefully in controlled environments ;)

Sounds sweet doesnt it!

Cheers Anthony!!

Cheers

Cheers!!!!

LS the WORRRRLD🔥👅😛

@James Doe Nah, it doesn't smell like fish either. I just had a quick look at the record books where they list every occasion a "barra" won at Bathurst. Geez... It would appear the poor old barra never ever won any kind of endurance race here, overseas or even in a lake. BARRA. BIG RACE WINS... ZERO. Oops.

That's approx an average of 136 kph (stopping at traffic lights and going through towns must have seen enormous top speeds) allowing for 5 20 minute refuels with no motor ways and highways still going through towns

That's good going!!

@@jdoe9518 That's very interesting... I left Morayfield north of Brisbane at 4pm on Christmas eve in 1996 in a fairly capable WB ute with our spare race engine (we'd upgraded from a 186 to a 202 in an Improved Production LJ), a T5 & a 3.55 diff. I had 50 series Yokies on all four corners. That 186 might have made 200BHP. We had a Uniden radar detector, we were in a hurry & we drove all night. According to the original speedo we cruised on 200 many times & got away with it since the Highway Patrol weren't very active on Christmas eve. The ute was fuel efficient on SUs & very happy high in the revs. We stopped only twice for fuel. We were in Emerald Victoria at 8am on Christmas day. The solid cam 186 loved 200KPH in 5th with the T5. A good V8/4Speed with a taller diff should travel quicker than we did. We did Morayfield to Emerald in 16 hours on much improved roads. I recon a gun steerer driving a damn good car as opposed to my old ute could probably make that trip in 14 hours if he relentlessly drove like a shot dog. I had my missus on board & she was used to my constant sustained high speed driving & she knew the way to Emerald. I'd never been there. Ol' mate might be close to the truth? In this day & age, we're never likely to go like cut cats on public roads like we used to. It's virtually impossible now to test his claims. I had my missus with me & I still have my ute. It cruises easily on 200 once you get clear of socalled civilisation, the obedient whingers & the uniforms who are trained to hate us for NOT obeying. I don't drive like a slob. I don't go clanging into objects or other vehicles. I built the ute myself & it's an extension of myself. I've never driven it at ten tenths & I certainly don't recommend exceeding speed limits. Dick Johnson once said... Ban low performance drivers & not high performance cars. They still allow slow thinking inacapable vegetables to hold drivers licenses, so the limits must be kept low. I really enjoyed rocketing down to Victoria as quickly as I could get there. There was nothing dangerous about it. The highways were virtually empty & the ute behaved beautifully. Sadly, those days are long gone. PS: If drunken drug addicts like Johnny O'Keef hadn't been there ahead of us & smashed themselves and the ridiculous barges they elected to drive to smitherines, the speed limits might not have become so excruciatingly restrictive. Sadly, we're all forced to drive at a snail's pace because the average beanbag can't even make it to the corner shop without killing someone, regardless of how safely we make modern cars & modern roads. The good ol' days are long over. 14 hours sounds do-able to me, especially if they left from the Tweed end of the Gold Coast. I drove from up near Caboolture which adds well over an hour to the trip even going like your life depends on it & that's exactly how I drive & stay alive.

@@johnbrooks9523 Amen brother. Love it. I remember driving my HQ van 308 m21 with a few goodies from Melb- Syd in 87 with my Mum. Every time she nodded off the foot went down and I was sitting on 160-180. Had a play with a BMW as well. Every time Mum woke up the foot came off to 130-140. She was happy with that. Yep, the good ole days.

Cheers

Cheers

Cheers

Send me some pics jack at perkinsengineering.com.au

@@perkinsengineering Please, please, please Jack... Take a camera with you. Finding the guts of a PERKINS ENGINEERING SLIDE THROTTLE 5.0 LITRE is a big deal where I come from. Footage of such an acquisition & the subsequent recovery & restoration would be eye watering for those of us who sat glued to our tellies back in 1993 to watch the Great Granddaddy of the Rank Outsiders gallop home for the win over the highly favoured big dollar imports. Please... Make us another movie we'll cherish forever.

Yes the twin throttle was never amazing for drivability either

Always nervous ;)

Sweet sounds!!

Would be cool!!

@@perkinsengineering . . . Yep, perfect... Sit it in the back of his Hiace & send him straight to my place! Got the cash ready. . .

That'd get the old chevy going.....i mean injection is nice but I'd rather be blown....👅😛😈👍

Sorry mate, it's sold!

Yeah possibly not the ultimate "back to back" but still cool to see the differences power wise.

Not wrong!!

Good thinking!

Castrol EDGE 25W50 (GP50)

Bit tricky on the dyno!

Make us an offer!!!

We cover the modern HRT car in a fair few episodes, Ep10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 24, 31, 33, 35, 36, 39 and 41!

We did the headers for our 1993 engine. Yes they were done in-house for that period.

@@perkinsengineering Would it be fair comment to describe the 1990 era engine as a tweaked Group A Walki/ hybrid V8 SuepCars compromised thing, as opposed to the 1993 PE SLIDETHROTTLE POWERPLANT refined to it's maximum within the then V8 SuperCars Rule Book? Group A really tortured our Holden V8s & the diehards who hung in & stayed with them.

That’s the rev range on the gear change drop on up change

304

It's a sweet sound!!! Cheers!!!

Yes sir, known as a "heavy crank"

@perkinsengineering awesome 👌🏼 should do a video on LPs early engine work would love to see inside one

It's not too bad, the slide manifold was better again. Power comes from a lot of things, quality build, up-spec piston, valvetrain, weight reduction, sump etc.

It was borderline un-driveable back in the day. Most of the drivers comments would back that up. Which is why other manifolds became a thing!

It's reversion created by a combination of the cam overlap, exhaust primary pulse and low velocity in the inlet runner with larger throttle openings. It would be manageable to drive through at part throttle because the air speed would increase due to the partially close throttle plates. Basically the exhaust pulse returns and inlet charge doesn't have enough energy to push it out so the cylinders don't clear and you end up trying to burn partially spend mixture with a terrible fresh mixture. The result is torque drops until it clears. Adding ignition in the bad spot might help. Alter cam timing might help. Different primary length pipes will help but will take torque away somewhere higher in the range. This is a very common issue on race engines. Road engines starting using VVT/VTEC and dual runner length inlet manifold to avoid issues like this and provide low end driveability with top end power. Race cars use gearing and good drivers that don't drop under peak torque to avoid it ;)

@@jdoe9518 Yep, and driving a taxi doesn't quite cut it for some of us who enjoy the battle of keeping a big overlap screamer in it's torque window. Gimme the gnarly old Hot Holden any day over the easy to drive, high tech, variable everything, computor controlled, put you to sleep modern homogenised taxi engine. Chasing the exhaust out of a poorly designed Holden head has always been a problem. You obviously know the score. Getting the recipe right ALWAYS involves reaching into the high revs department with any naturally aspirated Holden engine & driving them in the "cam" is rewarding & certainly not fot the lazy or the faint-hearted. There's little excitement in just having power on tap. The big payoff comes with driving something you have to think about & work at to get that sweet high power. A Group C engine is the epitome of a power supply a driver has to work for. Developing the kind of skills you need to get an angry engine to deliver is hard work for some & greatly rewarding for others. Personally.... I enjoy the "work". I consider myself lucky to have lived in a time where understanding people like yourself have got your heads around getting our old "consumer products" to go like stink. I'm still using my old Holden sixes & V8s & yes, they're angry on big overlap flat tappet cams & carburetors. But, I have a great time wringing their necks!

PE ones? We recently re-manufactured a few sets for restorations

Very rare!

Couldn't agree more!

4.9

no baffles in the rocker cover

@@perkinsengineering thanks

95-98 ULP in the day not Avgas, 98 BP Ultimate today

@@perkinsengineering Thanks. Very neat crank trigger bracket that looks to repurpose the OEM 304 distributor hall effect sensor and connector.

487hp @ 7000rpm

@@perkinsengineering cool thanks, that's a pretty healthy 304 for sure. Also congrats on the new Bub..

Sweet!

Starting with piston and valve clearance at a guess

Wow... whats the compression up to for an engine like that on pump fuel gotta be over 11:0:1... someone should build an LP lron lion as a 383 stroker with 367 cube combo on E85 at 14:1 just for giggle.

@@pooheadispoppingout pretty sure theres a Full Boost video where they interview some engine builder & he's virtually done exactly that 👍

Now, you're asking for trouble! The sort of greenhead snowflake who'd flip out a fortune for a basicly useless, coal burning, battery powered wanker kid's toy, would cringe, shit 'emselves & run to mummy after hearing anything like this Holden V8 screamer. I still drive a1958 FC with an ex-Group C mongrel race engine onboard. It's trusty old 1960s/'70s technology, has a rowdy hardened steel straight cut cam gear, big overlap solid cam, an old steel crankshaft that rings like a bell at 7500RPM, a set of tuned length pipes & a straight through muffler. This car is noisy. Every time I drive around some pissweak whimp in a beige Camry, they get straight on their kiddyphone & call 000! I live over 2 hours from Brisbane & I drive the car as it was intended to be driven... quickly. Average braindead consumers are ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED of this car! I get into little towns like Blackbutt & Yarraman only to have the demented fun police coming at me head on, smashing on their brakes as they sail past, making screaming Uies & flying up my arse to ask me how fast was I going because some pathetic dweeb has shit 'emselves when I've blasted past them & they've had a big cry over their mobile phones to operators at 000. So, don't be thinking these plastic creampuffs in Tesla Toy cars would be envious of the growl emitting from a hot old engine. They're not envious at all. THEY'RE SCARED SHITLESS! They have all the money in the world & they're really pissed off when some old geezer like myself goes flying past them in their TupperWareMobiles in a highly modified museum piece & if they think you're enjoying yourself, they want the police to shoot you in the head. This is the mentality of your average modern day narcissistic plastic snowflake. Any noise spooks them.

@@johnbrooks9523 I agree. I parked my Injected 5ltr outside the Tesla office at Chatswood last week. The workers across the road cheered and the Tesla workers agreed my car was way cooler! Climate crisis is bullshit

Why? This one idle's pretty good

Which one? PE004, 005, 007, 008, 009, 010 were all VL Walky's!

@@perkinsengineering the car I recall was white and had Perkins Engineering livery. A blue/yellow car too?

@@jamiesonscott7577 white PE rocket was initially PE009 which was destroyed post Bathurst 1992. PE010 started off white PE, then red PE and then Bob Jane T-Marts blue and yellow for sandown and Bathurst 1992.

@@perkinsengineering is PE010 still handing out smiles somewhere ?

@@jamiesonscott7577 yeah recently restored hopefully on track again soon

We found it was better!

@@perkinsengineering I agree, I used them and people told me I was wrong LT 4-into-1 were the way to go. I'd noticed Burns Stainless in the USA supply Nascar with Tri-Y manifolds. 🙂

He doesnt have much interest in the new stuff!

Cheers

Sorry its sold!