I have read a bunch of books, saw a videos, but nothing like this. During the first minutes of explanation you have the key of tuning and have explained it wonderful. To have played the note where we have to hear the beats is a great key factor to understand piano tuning. Anyway, with your short video now i understand all those books and other complex videos. Thanks a lot to share it...
I'm curious why you didn't check for the E back to A to confirm that 5th. Without doing so, it seems that you're assuming that all the 4ths and 5ths we're done perfectly. If there were any errors, the A to E beat could be way off.
Very good demonstration. The quality of this video is great. I can hear the beats and understand this method of tuning. Also the proper muting and hammer technique is quite noticable. Thanks for sharing.
Great video! But a few remarks: at 0.30: "the fourths are wide one beat per second". This is only so for the fourth a-d! "The fifths are narrow by three beats per five seconds". This is only so for the fifth a-e that you play! Fifth d-a(440Hz) would be exactly the same as the first fourth a-d, namely 1 beat per second! The higher you go, the faster the intervals will beat ! This is only logical: the frequency of every interval is an exponent! Octave is factor 2, pure fifth is factor 3/2 and pure major third is factor 5/4 in a pure tuning! And in our equal temperament the semitone is 2 to the power 1/12.
Thanks you so so much for this video and for your video on octaves.. you are my equal temperament teacher! Its a skill I've always marvelled at and now, thanks to you, sharing your expertise for FREE, I know how to do it now. You have inspired me so THANK YOU!
transmit mode: It was short and to the point. Really appreciate your showing how to listen for the harmonic partials two octaves up and to determine the beats from that. Very helpful. Hope you'll load more. You've got some very positive comments. Subscribed.
Your F-A third sounds a bit slow here, but it's still pretty decent considering you didn't use any thirds and sixths to control the progress. This is actually temperament formula Yamaha uses, fourth up, fifth down (but of course with 3rd and 6th controls). I personally find this 4th and 5th formula very difficult to use, because it's harder to compare these slow beat intervals than it is with faster beat intervals such thirds and sixths. I prefer using thirds and sixths, with fourths and fifths to control, I think it's much more easy to make smoothly progressing intervals with that formula, and hence perfectly working and even temperament.
NOW I understand this tutorial fully :D ..I learned and practiced Equal Beating Victorian Tuning ... I tune only by ear now ..I think Im pretty successful - one of my new friends - pianist for whole his life - was satisfied with my tuning of one forgotten ppiano I decided to repair and tune...after I understood Victorian tuning, now it's quite simple to understand other tuning techniques....but lot's of practice is also required, that's clear:Dbut finally I got this also:P thanx, mate
Question: When you install the temperament felt strip to mute the outer strings of each note, how do you mute the final outer string of the strip that has a large gap to the plate? It looks like that can't be done because in those places there is no adjacent string to hold the felt in place.
how long do you practice equal tuning by ear for , please? Im trying to tune up my piano using this technique...my hearing is not bad (others say) ..but even exactly tuned A to 440Hz, I cannot get ~7bps on F - A ...it's maybe 10-12 bps...i tried to repeat the tuning 5times..but the result is same..is possible, that I cannot tune it like this because the strings are just 132 years old? heheheh:D btw, thanx for video..another thing to learn and use in life
thanks a lot for this video I really love it. I have almost watched it more than 100 times to recognize them I mean the beats. please let me know how to tune the rest of a piano. thanks again
Nice demo! You can really hear the beats. However....what you are really tuning is a "well-temperament". Your F3-A3 third is significantly slower than 7 beats per second. You didn't demonstrate what the rest of the 3rds sounded like. But I can guarantee that they will not be smoothly progressing. They may be acceptable, but its not a good equal temperament unless you get a nice progression of 3rds. I was disappointed not to hear them.
@@khe84 Just to help clarify, it's 6.93 A3 = 220Hz F3 = 174.61Hz = 220 / (2^(4/12)) The fifth partial of F3 (A5) is 174.61*5 = 873.07 The fourth partial of A3 (A5) is 220*5 = 880 Finally, 880 - 873.07 = 6.93 Hz The difference in beats per second between the coincident partials is the beat rate you would theoretically hear if the strings had no inharmonicity.
Yes, for no inharmonicity. This is a real piano. We need to listen to the piano; “Let the piano tell you”. This is the principal of a specific and more accurate approach called the Go APE System.
Hello, so I've got to perform a pull on my piano, I want to tune it to equal temperament. This explains it pretty well. So I assume that after pulling, I have to tune it with a tuner and after that, start listening for the beats?
For the 4th A to D, when you say listening for the beating for two octave above A you mean hearing for that two octave above A note sound ? Likewise 5th G to D, listening for one octave above D note sound ?
@@roguepianoman5134 Thank you so much for your reply. I use tunelab loaded on my cellphone to tune pianos which have proven successful. However, I want to master aural method of yours which makes most sense. I noticed you played A and D notes separately a couple times before you play the chord AD notes together. You hear for the two octave A sound (beating) from the chord AD and not when you played each note separately before right ? I want to practise hearing that two octave A sound (beating) on my grand piano first. Would it help if I also play the two octave A note at the same time too ?
I use a different scale, I go from G to F#, I start off by tuning C-E at approx 10.5bbs and then tune my fouths with the lower note flattened to produce the beat and fifths the upper note flattened. My fifths are 0.5bbs but I struggle to hear the 3/4 bbs upper beat. I'm still quite new to the tempered scale it can very frustrating sometimes!
Hey. You're taking about beats per second when you're mentioning tuning the intervals sharp or narrow. How do I hear these bps and actually count them? Thanks in advance
Is Vancouver in BC, Canada you're talking about, because there is no such a thing like a 'piano school' here, none that I've heard of, or is it some other Vancouver you're talking about?
There are numerous victorian temperaments. The issue was rather confused as the victorians called any well-tempered tuning "equal temperament" because the keys are equally usable. Some are quasi-equal; others such as "Broadwood Best" which I have used a few times are well-temperaments in the true sense of the term.
Much practice is typically required to be comfortable with aural tuning. Don't be frustrated if it doesn't come easily right away. Make sure your fourths and fifths are wide and narrow respectively. There are aural tests that can be helpful for confirming that your intervals are on the right side -- at some point I'll make a video demonstrating these. For now, find pure as a reference point, and adjust the top or bottom note in the direction needed.
@@bikedawgMe? Since I am going for my RPT and all you can use is a A4 440Hz tuning fork, and rest has to be done by ear to pass the tests... you spend 100's of hours "listening" to pitch, beats, and harmonics. I think that watching a meter takes your attention away from watching the pins. You start working the wrong pin because you took your eyes off them to watch a meter (that you were trained not to use)... and the result... broken strings. I say a meter could be handy when you get a string with false beats, but do that string slowly with a meter, then regain your pin reference, and go back to tuning by ear as trained. Then after tuning is complete (and your hammer is set aside), by all means, use a meter to "grade yourself" on the tuning. Tuning a piano for practice requires (I think) a 80% or more grade. Tuning a piano for a concert requires a grade of (I think) 98% or more.
In this video the green felt is muting the outside strings of each tri-chord in the midrange of the piano. As there are three strings per note in this section, only the center string of each note will sound when the felt is used in this way.
Great video! I am in the very early stages of becoming a RPT. I have been watching many videos. Yours is the first that didn't gloss over the full equal temperament procedure of the middle octave. You explained that A4 440 was already tuned (many show that in great detail and don't bother explaining the rest), then you showed the 4ths and 5ths pattern while explaining that 4ths are tuned wide at 1 BPS and 5ths are tuned narrow at 3 BP5S, and what wide and narrow mean relative to each interval of note directions. Then checking the Major 3rd at 7 BPS and ascending by 1/2 BPS for each semitone increase in the interval. Deee..lux. 5 stars!
How do you know which notes to tune for either fourths or fifths? For example: If I tune the D for the A-D interval, I can't tune the same D for the G-D fifth because then the fourth would be off.
...You just tune the notes have haven't been tuned yet. Progressively, until you've tuned all of them in the octave. In your example, of course you wouldn't tune the D to the A, and then tune the D again to an un-tuned G. You would tune the A, then the D to that A, then the G to that D. You tune the one that hasn't been tuned yet.
Why 440 and not 443 all or most harmonicas are 443 and I think a b has to be a bit flat to sound pleasant but I know nothing but I do know nothing is defined and I love to break rules
A Harp is 441 not 443. So it is 4 cents sharp Not 12 cents. At A440 1 beat is 4 cents. I read the harps direction sheet. They tune it 4 cents sharp so it will a little more bright. Different octaves has different ratios. A 440 octave is 4 cents per beat.
Pay attention at the beginning of the video where he sais "4ths are augmented and 5ths are diminished" in your situation you might have tuned the note in the wrong position. Could be above or below pure.
Gee, my ears must be terrible !! i just cant hardly hear the 'beats' in this video. To be honest, the piano sounded pretty much in tune before he even began tuning it !!
