I had never thought to use a collet block in the vice for small hand work, but I will now. Fabulous tip for holding small stuff. Thank you for sharing!
Those ER collets sets are quite useful in any shop... The fact they apply force in a parallel way to the part make them more "gripping" than 5C or R-8. My mill uses ISO 40 taper and TG-100 collets, those are excellent as they got a lot of holding force, there is always a risk of slippage, mostly with carbide tooling, the fact the collets are hardened and the tooling is also very hard is preventing the biting effect to help with the grip, but, with experience you get to work within the limits and deal with it...
Hi Pierre, I have some W20 collets (similar to 5C) for the old Schaublin and the compression range is horrible compared to ER. As you know, you need to be right on the money nominal size wise and you need lots of 5C to cover the range that a set of ER will cover. ER is certainly a revelation to most users. Cheers Rob
Good and informative video. Where would we be without the versatility of ER collets? Another little tip about gripping short workpieces at the outside edge of the collet. Install a short piece of round stock at the back of the collet the same dia as the workpiece you're gripping and this keeps the collet slots parallel when the nut is tightened. I use ER 40's and in my collet drawer I have short pieces of round stock for most of my collet sizes plus some at 1/2 a millimetre smaller in dia. This enables parallel gripping on a broad range of short workpieces...Oz
Yeah gday Rob--I taken on your advice and ordered another set of er32 collets but this time its to DIN standards.. The suppliers say they are accurate to half a thou so they are far more accurate than the set I have got..If you had not responded to my comments I would never have known about the DIN standard of collets.You are shoving out a lot of very good information..The wheel divider and DIN standard collets stands out for me..Really good stuff so thanks and keep it up..E
The problem with holding short workpieces in ER collets is that as the collet is tightened the narrow end compresses more than the workpiece end. Rather than trying to parallel the face, which may not always be possible, try inserting something of the same diameter as the workpiece as short way into the narrow end. the collet can then be fully tightened without the worpiece canting.
You’re dead right about the collets, I used to repair dental laboratory and light industrial hand held motors both air and electric as well as attached gear boxes. Collets saved the day many times.
IMHO collar mikes are crap. They pick up all the heavy breathing, sniffing, throat clearing, gum sucking, teeth grinding and lip smacking noises that some people make. I used to give lectures and had loads of trouble with dodgy cables and transmission problems on collar and lapel mic's. They were always being replaced. Much better to have a decent directional mic attached to the camera. But saying that its not often that Rob has any sound problems. regards
Your collett block in the vice trick is very useful but now that you have a hand vice you'll find no better holding device for small items. I love mine but I envious of your's and Allen's.
Hi Craig, the hand vice is very useful, but it can't do some things that a collet block will - eg. hold a small bolt or rod in the vice to cut it or tap a thread. But for wire buffing it's certainly the way to go. Cheers Rob
Rob, That Millers Falls hand Vice most likely has a storied history. The fact it was acquired in the UK probably dates it back to WW 2. Millers Falls had major contracts with the US War Department and produced a huge variety of small hand tools for the war effort so much of their products ended up in Europe. A young lad who worked at the factory in Millers Falls through the first year of the war and then enlisted in the Army as he came of age tells an interesting story. As the war neared the end his unit was capturing Germans and their equipment daily. After capturing a German engineer unit he was going through their tool boxes and to his surprise found well used hack saws and new packages of hack saw blades all from Millers Falls. The line he worked on at Millers Falls made those very tools he discovered. It isn’t certain how the Germans ended up with the tools or even why they would want them given Germany’s reputation for quality steel and workmanship at the time. Perhaps they were captured from an Allied unit or, more likely, were purchased from certain businessmen eager to make a buck in spite of the war restrictions on trading with the enemy. That happened a lot more and at a greater scale than most people realize. Good job on the ferrel and putting that fine tool back to work. I have several Millers Falls tools I have restored and use regularly.
Interesting story Dale. I think a lot of tools found unlikely homes during/after WW2. I have some rare USA wrench and spanners that were never sold in Oz, but were original equipment on lend lease Kenworth M1 A1 wreckers. Coincidentally my father drove one of only three M1's in Oz during the war. ;) Cheers Rob
I have a similar collet block but it's ER25. ER25 came with my milling machine so I kind of stuck with that, I guess that's down to the size of the draw bar that they chose to fit/supply with it in the first place? All these different sizes, can be confusing for the beginner, maybe you could cover that aspect in the future, I take it that there's no chance of any size ER32 collet working with an ER25 block or draw bar? Picking up extra collets at auto jumbos etc, you need to know the physical differences/sizes.
Hi Steve, what size Morse taper does the mill have in the quill ? It should be possible to buy a larger ER chuck for the same size taper. It's easy to make another draw bar as they generally use standard metric thread which you can buy in rod form from the local hardware store - doesn't have to be anything special. Collet sizes are not interchangeable in ER series. Cheers Rob
You can definitely buy ER32 for Morse 2 - readily available and not expensive. To make a draw bar, machine up a spindle end washer (taper or stepped) to keep the threaded rod centered, cut some threaded rod to length, weld a big nut on the end, you're all done and good to go. Cheers Rob
Oh yeah, ER collets are one of my favorite things in my shop. So much flexibility. I like how I can use a 5c to er32 adapter and go from the lathe to a collet block or indexer on the mill without unclamping the part from the collet. Plus you can use them in your mill spindle too with another adapter. And on top of that they hold a wider range of stock size for a given bore size compared with 5c collets, since they are slotted at both ends, they still hold the part straight if you force a slightly bigger diameter or clamp down more to grip a slightly smaller diameter. That being the case, a set of 16 er32 collets will basically almost hold the same range as a set of 64 5c collets AND a set of 16 R8 collets and they're cheaper too. I use er32, er25 and er11, both SAE and metric sizes, thinking about getting er16s as well.
Dead on. I can't imagine how people get by without them. But the majority of lathe owners never seem to venture into collet land. You just have to look at the number of second hand lathes that get sold, with no mention of collets, of any sort. I've been banging on about ER collets for years on my channel and hopefully some of my viewers have become converts (I know some definitely have). They are just another form of chuck, but people seem to have trouble grasping that fact. They are the way to go. Cheers Rob
Another idea I had with the collets was to buy collet extensions designed for cnc milling but get them with shank diameters the same as the tailstock spindle and machine them to fit as a replacement. In my case it meant milling a keyway and threadmilling the left-hand thread into the ID. The extensions are hardened steel so unfortunately they don't tap or single-point well, I imagine cutting a rack on one would be easy if the cutter was carbide but I don't have that style tailstock. For a " pump" style tailstock on a watchmakers lathe it's a simple matter of buying one with an 8mm shank and no maching is necessary. I like this mod because 1) it increases the max length of a part you can center drill by the difference between the length of the drill chuck and the collet nut (more if you can choke up on the drill because now the drill can pass through the collet as well) especially useful if you have a really short lathe or a steady rest. 2) can just use straight shank centers and not have to have different centers and or adapters for each lathe. I'm all about economy of both cost and time. I don't want to have to buy 2 or 3 different versions of everything and I definitely don't even want to think about having to make any more morse-taper drill adapters.
No need for metric and imperial sizes, the metric sizes cover a continuous range, so for 1/2" for example which is 12.7mm, you would use the 13>12mm ER collet. Save yourself a bundle for even more tooling ;-)
Yes, agreed, but some Imperial sizes are at the extreme end of the compression ranges for certain sized metric collets. Still useable, but not perfect. Only an issue for a few mid range sizes I find. I also doubled up on a few metric sizes that I sometimes use simultaneously (eg centre drilling and work holding). Cheers Rob
@@Ropetangler I agree the metric set is a greater value as it holds pretty much all the fractional inch sizes no problem. I was in the market for 2 sets and figured best to get both rather than 2 metric, especially since I'm in the USA and still see most of my tooling in inch sizes. Also worth noting that if you have a collet sized as "9-10" mm, it holds a 3/8 perfectly but if you have the ones sized 7, 8, 9, 10, etc (as I do), then 3/8 is uncomfortably halfway between the 9 and the 10.
I have a square collet block i use on lathe in my 4 jaw and i think i will loctite or epoxy on some pieces of aluminium to the square block so i don't damage the surfaces of the collet block - sick of stuffing around with packing pieces that's for sure !
Nice little project, it’s always fun to do simple little projects that tend to get neglected and always put off for some reason or another. Take Care !
I like the new camera angle you've found. That bronze ferrule will never break and never come loose. I was surprised you thought to use a vise not a collet to fix the out of round bit 😂 Cheers, Craig
Hi Craig, I tried to get it back in shape enough to use a collet for the final shaping, but the bronze split. So that's in the recycle bin. I have some more bushing in that size, so I will make one up from that. The camera angle is good, but I have difficulty getting the tripod in there. I may have to make up a mount of some sort. Cheers Rob
Rob, now you see what you've done? I'm going to have to take the handle I made for mine off and fit a ferrule!!😂 I really do like your Schaublin, if only I had room for another lathe 😢 Cheers, Alan.
Hi Alan. The Schaublin is really sweet to use. I've done a fair bit of work with it and having it set up for collets makes it the go to machine for model making. I think the new ferrule turned out OK. I have to find a large enough piece of suitable timber for the other handle. I have some jarrah but that may not turn well as it's damn hard stuff. I think some old cedar could be good. My Bro-Inlaw has a fair bit of that from antique furniture restoration, so I will see if any is available. After I cleaned it, I lubed the hand vice with some clear pressure pack silicon lube meant for car door latches etc and it works very smoothly. Also no dirty residue. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Funny that you should mention your brother-in-law and furniture restoration. I'm currently waiting for 4 reclaimed mahogany table legs to arrive from ebay, going to use them mainly for making tool handles. Cheers, Alan.
Good idea Alan. I am going to start looking for similar. Hopefully some roadside junk will come good with this :) I've seen them before, but never thought much about it. Some of that old weathered timber was really high quality stuff. Buying new is out of the question. Cheers Rob
Love collets. I have ER32 ER25 ER16 & ER11 sets. Maybe that's just being greedy but use them whenever possible on the lathe both mills and for bench work. Thanks for sharing Rob. regards from the UK
Hi Gary, ER sure is the business. I sometimes miss not having ER40 as it's surprising how common inch sizes are, even in our metric world. ER32 goes down to 1 mm which is fine for what I do, but 40 stops at 2 mm and the chuck is a lot bulkier (which can be an issue when cutting gears on a rig). Cheers Rob
Hi Rob. I have a ER40 collet on a flat plate I use on the mill table but only 3 round collets 7/8" 1" & 1-1/16" + some hex & square sizes but nowhere near a full set. If I need smaller sizes vertical on the mill table I just hold my ER32 blocks in a vice on its side. Gary
There is some real crap out there Tom. I think it's worth spending a bit extra and buying some DIN standard ER stuff from an online seller like CTC Tools. Having said that, I am going to be reviewing some collets from Banggood very soon. This will be the first time in two years of BG reviewing. I have never seen any positive reviews from there before and stayed well away from that subject. Only recently have I seen collets on their site which actually have maximum stated run out figures, and with decent looking machining. So watch how they measure up. Cheers Rob
