Full podcast episode: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-WA9gVKKPsBo.html Lex Fridman podcast channel: ru-vid.com Guest bio: Jordan Jonas is a wilderness survival expert, explorer, hunter, guide, and winner of Alone Season 6, a show in which the task is to survive alone in the arctic wilderness longer than anyone else. He is widely considered to be one of the greatest competitors in the history on that show.
My family lost everything in the Armenian Genocide. Millenia of culture, business and political involvement built from my family gone in the blink of an eye. The denialists should be ashamed of themselves. It's one thing to forget, but to deny the systemic destruction of the Armenian, Assyrian and Greek communities in Anatolia is evil - And I don't use that word lightly.
If you can justify the systemic destruction and removal of an entire civilization then I think you need to seriously reflect on your moral and ethical values
@Dannyboy778-t8l Just check the ethnic composition of the capital city of Armenia through the years and you will surprised that it used to be Muslim majority city. What happened to those Muslims. Nobody cares since they are not Christians right.
As a Greek i wemt to Armenia and to the genocide museum. Armenians, assyrians, and Greeks all are honored there. Beautiful site, but very painful. Turks still deny everytbing
The root causes of the Armenian Genocide are based upon the failure of western powers to allow Armenian independence after 1878. The British did not favor Armenian independence because they feared a Russian foothold in the region. For their effort, the Turks gifted the island of Cyprus to Britain. Rather, under the Treaty of San Stefano, the Russians withdrew from those lands where Armenians lived and the Turks themselves agreed to carry reforms in the 6 Armenian provinces, thus creating the "Armenian Question." In 1914, the Turks agreed to the Armenian Reform Package allowing for a foreign governor, which was a prelude to independence. Knowing this, and in effort to avoid independence, the Turks abolished the Reform Package during their attack on Russia and officially ordered the deportation of Armenians. The intention to kill by the Government was clear per evidence, i.e., telegrams. The Armenians were rounded up just as the Europeans approached Constantinople, fearing a Christian attack. In order to rile up the masses, the Government used anti-Christianity sentiments. The official telegrams by the Minister of Interior indicates that the Government never intended for the deportation of Assyrians (which is why they continue to exist in Mardin, Turkey). So, please, do not conflate the suffering of Assyrians with the Government's intention to annihilate Armenians. There were 2 million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire (20% of the population). Thank you.
We can all agree we can call it Christian Genocide even though Armenians Took the heavy hit and were clensed from their own land, it would be more supporting from international players if we call it Christian Genocide and included Greeks Assyrians and all Chiratian Groups that were victim to this Genocide
Kurds and circassians were tasked with the removal of armenians... circassian genocide do you know of it? And do you know who they heavily resented? They resented christians.
@@0Er0 russian empire off course, who do you think is also responsible of conquering Armenian Teritories from Ottomans and then Deliberetely Falling back so turks can reconquer and destroy Armenians living there as a revange, russians did this multiple times and it was systematic, they too wanted Anatolia Without Armenians, I BLAME russians as much as i blame turks
@@mkryann1587 i genuinely believe if armenians never allowed the dashnaks to become powerful armenians would have a bigger border than today in my opinion.
@@0Er0 well dashnaks helped the Young Turks To Become The Head of the Government Overthrowing The Sultan, the Young Turks Promised huge Reforms For Armenians and Even Independent status Quote, however we saw what happened when they came to power, i dont like dashnaks because they are influenced by the russians, they were by the soviets and now they are by russians, but they are only a small Portion what Armenians Have and simply blaming them is not valid enough,its like blaming zionists for the Holocaust.
Genocide requires "intent." There was no such intent as against Assyrians. There was clear intent against Armenians. The root causes of the Armenian Genocide are based upon the failure of western powers to allow Armenian independence after 1878. The British did not favor Armenian independence because they feared a Russian foothold in the region. For their effort, the Turks gifted the island of Cyprus to Britain. Rather, under the Treaty of San Stefano, the Russians withdrew from those lands where Armenians lived and the Turks themselves agreed to carry reforms in the 6 Armenian provinces, thus creating the "Armenian Question." In 1914, the Turks agreed to the Armenian Reform Package allowing for a foreign governor, which was a prelude to independence. Knowing this, and in effort to avoid independence, the Turks abolished the Reform Package during their attack on Russia and officially ordered the deportation of Armenians. The intention to kill by the Government was clear per evidence, i.e., telegrams. The Armenians were rounded up just as the Europeans approached Constantinople, fearing a Christian attack. In order to rile up the masses, the Government used anti-Christianity sentiments. The official telegrams by the Minister of Interior indicates that the Government never intended for the deportation of Assyrians (which is why they continue to exist in Mardin, Turkey). So, please, do not conflate the suffering of Assyrians with the Government's intention to annihilate Armenians. There were 2 million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire (20% of the population). Thank you.
This comment section is filled to the brim with genocide denial. Can Lex’s mods do something about that, or is Lex too Centrist to delete bot comments denying genocide?
These sad stories are not very different from those events that led to and during the exodus of the Turkish-speaking population from the Balkans to Anatolia during Balkan wars by the non-Turkish speaking armed forces and from the Caucasus during the Russian War, all of which continued during WWI, and raise the question of how those were not genocides (by the later established nation-states of those regions) if the exodus of the Armenians were.
The word Genocide is born and first used to describe the Turks monstrosities against Armenian and Greek populations. Genocide is the first official act of the newborn Turkish state after the collapse of the ottoman empire. Germans inspired and guided the Turks to these tactics, tha were later perfected in ww2 against the jews and eastern europeans.
You are making it all up don't you? 😄the word genocide was first used in 1944 by raphael lemkin. and "the newborn turkish state" didn't exist until 1923 which is ~8 years after the fact.
Lemkin's thinking was significantly shaped by the Armenian Genocide, you may read his auto bio when it is declassified as a terorist propaganda book in Turkey
The title should be renamed “Assyrian genocide” as Jordan is specifically mentioning the Assyrians that were murdered during the genocide. Although happening at the same time, there are different nuances that make the genocide different.
What are you talking about!? 1.5 million Armenians died while 250,000 - 700,000 Assyrians died in 1915. Both were persecuted for their belief in Christianity and both should be spoken enough. I am Armenian and have plenty of Syrian friends who believe the same way.
@@bigdraco3644 You are incorrect. What defines a "genocide" is the government's intention. The root causes of the Armenian Genocide are based upon the failure of western powers to allow Armenian independence after 1878. The British did not favor Armenian independence because they feared a Russian foothold in the region. For their effort, the Turks gifted the island of Cyprus to Britain. Rather, under the Treaty of San Stefano, the Russians withdrew from those lands where Armenians lived and the Turks themselves agreed to carry reforms in the 6 Armenian provinces, thus creating the "Armenian Question." In 1914, the Turks agreed to the Armenian Reform Package allowing for a foreign governor, which was a prelude to independence. Knowing this, and in effort to avoid independence, the Turks abolished the Reform Package during their attack on Russia and officially ordered the deportation of Armenians. The intention to kill by the Government was clear per evidence, i.e., telegrams. The Armenians were rounded up just as the Europeans approached Constantinople, fearing a Christian attack. In order to rile up the masses, the Government used anti-Christianity sentiments. The official telegrams by the Minister of Interior indicates that the Government never intended for the deportation of Assyrians (which is why they continue to exist in Mardin, Turkey). So, please, do not conflate the suffering of Assyrians with the Government's intention to annihilate Armenians. There were 2 million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire (20% of the population). Thank you.
@@bigdraco3644 Incorrect. Genocide requires "intent." There was no intent to kill Assyrians by the Government. Rather, Assyrians were attacked by local Kurds because of their christianity. You have Talaat's telegrams affirming this! We are not minimizing the suffering of the Assyrians, but stop conflating everybody's problems with the Armenian situation. The Turkish Government INTENTIONALLY targeted the Armenians as evidenced by the official order calling for the deportation of the Armenians; official order to confiscate and redistribute Armenian properties..... There was never any government order to target Assyrians. Rather, Talaat specifically forbade the deportation of Assyrians, which is why they still live in places like Mardin!
@@armeniandiaspora2914 what are you even saying? There is literal eyewitness to massacres from the Armenian genocide. Regardless of what geographical challenge there was for Armenia you cannot hide the fact that the Turks rounded up all the women and children and marched them to their death in the desert.. you get your information from the authoritarian dictatorship. You get your information from the country that has jailed the most journalist in the entire world. You get your information from a country who houses Isis terrorist.
There was not only a systematic genocide against the Armenians/Assyrians/Greeks by the Turks but also in the beginning of the Genocide before attention was turned towards the Assyrian and Greek population, many Assyrians known as Aramaean’s as well, were mistaken for Armenians because of the similar spelling by ignorant Turkish and Kurdish death squads, it was always the plan though to eradicate all three minority groups from the territory of what would become the modern Turkish Republic.
Turk here, lets have a open debate, why did this happen? Was there an alternative course open to the Armenians in which they would have gained far more than they ended up with, between 1918 and 1924? Would they have secured the safety and continued existence of the Armenian people in their traditional homelands by acting differently than they did? Was there no other way possible but collaborating in the destruction of the Ottoman state and organising an insurrection to facilitate it? Might the Armenian future have been far better if they had not done what they did after August 1914? These are questions which the Armenian lobby does not want to face up to. They seem to be just too much to contemplate given what happened to the Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire as a result of the road the Dashnagtzoutiun chose to take. It would be just terrible to think that perhaps the wrong turn was taken at the crossroads and another road may have led to a less glorious/disastrous outcome. Nobody realises also the militias tasked with the removal of armenians were kurd and circassian, circassians who heavily resented christians after the genocide that happened to them prior.
Armenians served in the Turkish military until 1912, after which they were placed in labor battalions. You know very well that under Turkish law, Armenians were regarded as second class citizens with no rights equal to muslims. The periodic massacres in 1875, 1894-96, 1909, mandated independence. You know that very well, but you justify your genocidal past by blaming the victim. The root causes of the Armenian Genocide are based upon the failure of western powers to allow Armenian independence after 1878. The British did not favor Armenian independence because they feared a Russian foothold in the region. For their effort, the Turks gifted the island of Cyprus to Britain. Rather, under the Treaty of San Stefano, the Russians withdrew from those lands where Armenians lived and the Turks themselves agreed to carry reforms in the 6 Armenian provinces, thus creating the "Armenian Question." In 1914, the Turks agreed to the Armenian Reform Package allowing for a foreign governor, which was a prelude to independence. Knowing this, and in effort to avoid independence, the Turks abolished the Reform Package during their attack on Russia and officially ordered the deportation of Armenians. The intention to kill by the Government was clear per evidence, i.e., telegrams. The Armenians were rounded up just as the Europeans approached Constantinople, fearing a Christian attack. In order to rile up the masses, the Government used anti-Christianity sentiments. The official telegrams by the Minister of Interior indicates that the Government never intended for the deportation of Assyrians (which is why they continue to exist in Mardin, Turkey). So, please, do not conflate the suffering of Assyrians with the Government's intention to annihilate Armenians. There were 2 million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire (20% of the population).
@@armeniandiaspora2914 I read two small books written under the revolutionary pen-name of “Armen Garo” (Armenian Hero). The Armenian insurrectionary Dr. Garegin Pasdermadjian published these as he waited in Washington for his nation to be granted a territory for its Great War service, by the victorious Allies in Paris. The books were called Why Armenia Should Be Free (1918) and Armenia and her Claims to Freedom (1919). Why Armenia Should Be Free describes an Armenian Insurrection, beginning in late 1914, that, it is argued, contributed substantially to the defeat of the Ottoman Empire, and which was viewed by Pasdermadjian as being well worth the lives of the hundreds of thousands, or more, it consumed, because it had - presumably - achieved its objective. As Armen Garo wrote:
@@armeniandiaspora2914 “… the Armenians from the beginning of the war… have stood by and been loyal to the allied cause in the Near East, and they rendered not only appreciable military service but also jeopardised their very existence in Turkey, where more than a million of Armenians, men, women and children, were ruthlessly massacred and exterminated by reason of their pro-ally attitude.” Pasdermadjian was a committed Dashnak and it is clear that he believed the risking of the “very existence” of his people was considered worthwhile to achieve Magna Armenia. And in 1918, at the conclusion of the Great War, he felt the risk, despite the losses, to have been completely justified and the Dashnaks vindicated. At this moment of seeming triumph Pasdermadjian was candid enough to reveal that there had been another choice open to the Dashnagtzoutiun that had certainly been a possible alternative to what they decided to do and this alternative was rejected, fully in the knowledge of what would happen instead: “Had the Armenians assumed an entirely opposite attitude from what they actually did; in other words, had they bound their fate in 1914 to the Turco-German cause, just as the Bulgarians did in 1915, what would have been the trend of events in the Near East? Here is a question to which, it is quite possible, our great Allies have had no time to give any consideration. But that very question was put before the Armenians in 1914, and with no light heart did they answer it by their decision to join the Allies. Each and every one of them had a clear presentiment of the terrible responsibility they assumed. Those millions of corpses of Armenian women and children which spotted the plains in the summer of 1915, rose like phantoms before our very eyes in the August of 1914 when we decided to resist the wild Turkish revengefulness and its frightful outcome. Now, in October, 1918, when we are so close to the hour of the final victory, and feel quite safe and certain that the heavy and gloomy days of the summer of 1914 will never return, I shall permit myself to picture in a few words, before I finish, that which would have taken place if the Armenians had sided with the Germano-Turks in the Near East from the beginning of the war. First of all, those frightful Armenian massacres would not have taken place. On the contrary, the Turks and the Germans would have tried to win the sympathy of the Armenians in every possible way until the end of the war.” (p.44) That is quite clear in suggesting that what happened to the Armenian populace from 1915 was very much the result of the Armenian Insurrection and if there had been no Insurrection there would have been a large number of Armenians (and Turks and Kurds) still alive and all the better for it in 1918.
@@armeniandiaspora2914 “… the Armenians from the beginning of the war… have stood by and been loyal to the allied cause in the Near East, and they rendered not only appreciable military service but also jeopardised their very existence in Turkey, where more than a million of Armenians, men, women and children, were ruthlessly massacred and exterminated by reason of their pro-ally attitude.” Pasdermadjian was a committed Dashnak and it is clear that he believed the risking of the “very existence” of his people was considered worthwhile to achieve Magna Armenia. And in 1918, at the conclusion of the Great War, he felt the risk, despite the losses, to have been completely justified and the Dashnaks vindicated. At this moment of seeming triumph Pasdermadjian was candid enough to reveal that there had been another choice open to the Dashnagtzoutiun that had certainly been a possible alternative to what they decided to do and this alternative was rejected, fully in the knowledge of what would happen instead: “Had the Armenians assumed an entirely opposite attitude from what they actually did; in other words, had they bound their fate in 1914 to the Turco-German cause, just as the Bulgarians did in 1915, what would have been the trend of events in the Near East? Here is a question to which, it is quite possible, our great Allies have had no time to give any consideration. But that very question was put before the Armenians in 1914, and with no light heart did they answer it by their decision to join the Allies. Each and every one of them had a clear presentiment of the terrible responsibility they assumed. Those millions of corpses of Armenian women and children which spotted the plains in the summer of 1915, rose like phantoms before our very eyes in the August of 1914 when we decided to resist the wild Turkish revengefulness and its frightful outcome. Now, in October, 1918, when we are so close to the hour of the final victory, and feel quite safe and certain that the heavy and gloomy days of the summer of 1914 will never return, I shall permit myself to picture in a few words, before I finish, that which would have taken place if the Armenians had sided with the Germano-Turks in the Near East from the beginning of the war. First of all, those frightful Armenian massacres would not have taken place. On the contrary, the Turks and the Germans would have tried to win the sympathy of the Armenians in every possible way until the end of the war.” (p.44)
What amazing survival stories! It's so terrible What people do to each other. My grandparents survival stories from Poland WWII bring me strength as well. Thank you for sharing ❤
If that’s the Assyrian side than same 1918 flight but they’re Assyrians from Urmia who joined the Ottoman Armenians and Armenians from Salmast fleeing south in Persia with the Ottoman army behind them.
@@kaiserkhan9832 yes, I know about that violence. Not well researched other than some Turkish propaganda publications but nonetheless, there were violence against Muslims from 1915-1918. At the same, Armenians were also facing violence, I mean Bitlis vilayet was almost completely wiped out. Van would've faced a similar reality if they didn't resist. Even when they retreated to Russian Igdir in 1916, they were attacked by Kurdish tribes in Bergri (Muradiye). Retribution and revenge were not uncommon.
My grandfather was US military wrongfully imprisoned in Turkey. He ended up becoming great friends with the general /president of Turkey for many years. It was a crazy unlikely friendship. they would fly around on his private jet. My mother was born in Turkey. It saddens me to hear that the relations with turkey is not what it should be. God bless humanity. We’re sick of these wars..
Have you ever wondered why Armenians feel great in all other Muslim countries? Recently, my father told a story that one Armenian priest met the prophet Mohamed when he was still small and predicted his future for him, but very much asked him not to offend the Armenian people. When Prophet Mohamed became what he became, he forbade all Muslims even to steal rope from the Armenians and called them people of the book.
Armenians had potential to create a prosperous culture when they founded the Armenia however they chose to create their culture around the genocide narrative. Now whole society creates all their identity by the events which is actually a historical documented occurrences rather than religious holly anecdotes. Actually it is interesting to watch how a psychological disorder not occurs only a human body, but covers a whole society.
F A L S E We we conquered by Soviets after gaining independence. EVERY country Armenians fled to after the Genocide, we contributed to their culture. France, Lebanon, Palestine (today Varsen Aghabekian, Minister of State for Foreign Affair of PA), Syria, US, Brazil, Argentina (airport named after Armenian), Russia, Canada. Wherever we go we thrive and contribute. Yes, we always remember and recognize the destruction of our native lands (economic historians ~$50,000,000,000 property theft alone after Genocide), but our identity is much more than this. We are musicians, painters, politicians, poets and authors, playwrights, engineers, scientists (an Armenian engineered the color TV)... *insisting on the contrary* means you have no genuine intention whenever you mention *Armenia* or its people. e: typo
Armenians are less civilized than greeks and even less civilized than modern secular turks. You are seen as mountain goaters by us modern turks.@@hi_arav
You write your language using the Latin letters.(work of Armenian linguist) Constantinople was built by Greek, Armenian Jewish, Arabic and Persian masters and architects(example Palian family). The institution of music in your country was founded by Limonçian. The first theater of the Ottoman empire was invented by armenians. But you are just a little "grey mouse", who knows which ass to lick.
What’s even sadder is the whole turkish identity is based on denying numerous genocides their ancestors committed as they are actively genociding Kurds.
There has been no genocide. The Armenian government, Turkish people and Armenian people are neighbors, who want to separate their people politically so they can get votes from this hatred. Next time, look at official records before making a new podcast.
@@G_v._Losinj2_ImportantPlaylist lol yeah, it's laughable. "We only trust Turkish sources!" , they'll insist. Sorry. The international community has not only authentic Ottoman sources from the time, but also numerous accounts and records from Turkish Ottoman allies. The discussion is done. They've made themselves into the punchline of the joke.
it is not a matter of discussion that those incidents were not genocide. To show Armenians innocent is just an indicator of someone's having no idea about history
