EU7000is Genconnex Propane Natural Gas Conversion (not) Running at 30F 

It was on...which, after all, is the main reason that anyone would spend so much for the Honda brand. Which, works beautifully when not fueled by the Genconnex conversion kit.

@Marshall Hammond Hi Marshall. In a word, no, it didn't get worked out. From my many communications with Genconnex, I don't think they're even trying to work it out. If they are, they're certainly not communicating that fact to me. And with this video and its predecessor having received over 3,700 views (as of a moment ago), one might think they would be inspired to fix it for me, if they knew how to do so. After nine months, the Genconnex kit is looking more and more like a really foolish way to spend ~$750.00.

@@MstrMark did you buy it as a kit? Or as a converted generator from them? I was looking at complete generators with the kit installed.

@Marshall Hammond if you dig back in the comments for the first video and this one, you can read the whole saga, but basically, they didn't have any complete generators in stock, so I bought one locally and then bought the kit from Genconnex to convert it. I once made my living as a mechanic, so I didn't expect anything that I couldn't handle. Honestly, I don't think they have any secret sauce - I think they'd do it the same way I did, only with less care. I am coming to believe that they have a bunch of conversions out there that just don't run very well. Maybe some people don't care that they have to disable ECO Throttle. Maybe some people don't react to a tortured engine the same way I do. Because to be clear, on a warm day, it does run, and it does make electricity, but it does so considerably worse than it does when running on gasoline. Maybe some people don't mind having a ~$6000 machine that runs lousy. I don't know. That's why I posted these videos...I was hoping to get some engagement from others. But FWIW, I have yet to see a video that shows a Genconnex conversion running well with a light load. Let alone running well with a light load on ECO Throttle. What I don't understand is that if it doesn't work well for anyone, why someone hasn't taken legal action. I'm really surprised that they are able to get away with false advertising. And if everyone except me is getting great results with their Genconnex conversions, then how can it be that that not a single one of them has ever posted a RU-vid video? It's not hard to find an EU7000is running great on gasoline, but I challenge anyone to find one running right on natural gas. And if anyone reading this has one, please show it to me!

To what end Jim? I think we have already established that the mixture is too rich at no load (not too lean), so why would we want to measure the consumption at the meter? FWIW, the tie-in is not directly at the meter - it is right outside my utility room. I do have a private video that shows the pressures while in operation with my EU3000is. I can summarize the video by saying that static pressure measured just under 7.5" with no consumption and fell to 7" at full load. There was less than 0.25" difference between no load and full load, and adding the gas clothes dryer on the same line barely made any difference, so it seems pretty clear to me that the gas supply is adequate. That was with a smaller generator, with a different conversion kit, but the apparent behavior is quite similar: If I adjust the load block so that it runs right at full load, then it's too rich with no load. If I adjust it to run well with no load, then it's too lean at full load. And all of that while monitoring the supply pressure, so it seems very clear that the problem is related to the fact that the so-called demand regulator cannot adequately respond to the demand. That, and the static engine timing that neither kit addresses. I could share the video if you really think it would help, but it has some personal stuff in it that I would want to edit out first.

@@MstrMark Ok thanks, it has been of interest to me for some time with everyone getting the Generac whole house generators if they are actually running at optimum volume and pressure, the easy test to see if the unit is getting starve, if you have a gas stovetop, turn one burner on at a time and watch the flame, then turn on the next and repeat, if the flames goes down you have a volume issue. So no need to film the side of your house.

@@Moondoggy1941 I don't have any gas appliances that I can manually control as you are suggesting, but after many hours of testing, including tests with a gas pressure gauge, I am convinced that the problem(s) are not related to a gas supply issue. The stall shown in this video was caused by running way too rich, not too lean. I know it looks lean, but it's not - I made it run significantly better a few minutes later by installing a smaller orifice. I can improve the light-load performance at any temperature by installing a smaller orifice.

@@MstrMark does the smaller orifice work for a heavier load too?

@@ernestmurphy3898 It's all relative. Smaller orifices allow the engine to run without a load, which is actually a pretty big deal following startup. But at the risk of repeating myself, there is no orifice that is ideal for both no load and full load. Smaller orifices tend work better with light loadd, but then the generator dies with a heavier load, and in the same way, larger orifices work better at heavy loads, but then the engine runs badly (or not at all) with lighter loads. It can be made to "work" within a range, but it's never what I would call good.

Which video do you mean? I have seen one from US Carburetion, but in that video it is running at full load the whole time. They don't show it with a lighter load, nor with ECO Throttle. Their test rig is showing 5.42kW, although it's interesting that initially, the meter on the EU7000is itself is not showing VA, it is showing RPM, which is hunting around 3400. At that RPM, the machine is running all-out, but even during the short 70 second video, it is not running perfectly. Mine behaves very similarly as I push it toward 5500 VA - it starts to run out of gas (literally) and the RPM starts to hunt like theirs is doing in the video. When the EU7000is is running on gasoline, it's like a rock - there is no hunting, surging or faltering, even when pushed over 7000 VA. The machine in their video is just barely hanging on. 51 seconds into the video, they finally give us a shot of the generator's VA readout, but notice that it varies as the engine struggles. On gasoline, it might vary by 50, but not by 100 or 150 VA. I can do at least as well with the Genconnex kit, but the point is that unless one has a big static load, it won't run even that well. It might be good for an off-grid application...charging batteries at a constant current, for example. But practically speaking, it struggles at anything over 5000VA. Mine is happiest around 4500 VA. Any less, and it stumbles/misfires/backfires and (as you see in this video) even dies. Any more and it starts to wheeze out. I specifically asked US Carburetion if they had a video showing it running under varying loads and with ECO Throttle, but they did not answer that question. I tried four times. I take that to mean that they can't demonstrate it running correctly under real world standby generator conditions. If they can, they REALLY need to publish a video!

Spanish in not my language, but after I gave up on the Genconnex kit and installed the US Carbonation kit instead, it ran well on propane, natural gas, and gasoline: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2NziDBzqI-Y.html

@@MstrMark me alegro por ti ,buena solución

Hi Adam - thanks for the comment. It does look like it is starving, doesn't it? But I don't think that is actually the case - in reality, I think it's running way too rich, but the symptoms don't look the same as they do with gasoline. For example, with gasoline, we'd be seeing black smoke and it would smell rich. Well, it does smell rich, but the gas burns so clean that no smoke can be seen. To answer your question, I am using a half-inch hose that was supplied by Genconnex. FWIW, I believe that the root problem here is that the supplied orifice for the 10 to 90 degree F temperature range is way to big, which makes the engine run super-rich at light load. I had it running just prior to the video with a 3000 watt load and it was running pretty good, but when I disconnected the load, it almost died within the first few seconds, so I started shooting the video to document what I was experiencing. It then choked and died a few seconds later, just as you saw. I was able to get it running again only by disconnecting the supply hose - once the gas buildup had been purged, it started again, and then immediately died again for lack of fuel. I then re-connected the hose and after it started again, I was able to add some additional load before it choked on the excess gas again. This is essentially the same thing that it does when the weather is warmer (with the smaller high temp orifice) except that when the ambient temperature is higher, it usually recovers from the back-fires before it actually dies. I suspect that all of orifices are too big for my altitude, when running with a light load, and ironically, too lean at heavy load, so it's always a balancing act with this conversion kit. The total failure in cold weather was just another chapter in the ongoing experience with what I consider to be a really poor conversion kit. At the end of the day, I wound up changing back to the hot weather orifice, and that ran a little better, but with Eco Throttle, it still died with an 800 watt load. The only way I could keep it running without a heavier load was to defeat Eco Throttle. And it still wasn't "happy". In the midst of the worst winter storm in the recorded history of Texas, it was miserable to have to worry about my stupid-expensive generator not running. I was actually contemplating removing the Genconnex conversion, which would probably take me over an hour under the best of conditions. But I know that the machine runs PERFECTLY on gasoline, so I sure was tempted. But just as I was dreading doing that in a cold dark garage, the power came back on, so I was spared, no thanks to Genconnex.

@@MstrMark when I added natural gas kit to mine it ran like that until I adjusted the regulator. Runs fine and 60Hz

@@pctech911 What kit are you using? The reason I ask is that the Genconnex kit uses a fixed load block orifice - there is no way to adjust it other than to change the orifice, of which there are only two for natural gas.

@@MstrMark here’s a good demo ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MXXjEbUNqz0.html

@@pctech911 Okay, thank you, but that generator and conversion kit are both much different than mine: fuel-injected, computer-controlled, ECO Throttle, and the Genconnex conversion kit can't be adjusted.

Jim Carson, I'm almost sure I replied to this earlier...it like Google drops certain comments at certain times. In any case, I appreciate the thought, but it seems to me that the gas consumption is close enough to what it should be that it would be awfully hard to use consumption information to make a meaningful determination of whether it's actually running too rich or not.

@@MstrMark Thaks for the reply, I was always curious how much gas they consumed and I glad it is working out, for now, I think whole generators are the way to go, luckily I am in a natural gas area so it is easy for me.

@@Moondoggy1941 yes sir, in case it is not clear, I am running on natural gas as well. Propane is an interesting alternative, but so far, natural gas has never actually failed anywhere that I have lived. Given the failure of the Genconnex kit, I wish I had put the same time and effort into a fixed standby generator. But I have to say too, that if companies like Champion can build dual-fuel portable generators (that work very well), there's no doubt in my mind that Honda could, if they wanted to. If I was king of Honda, I would certainly do so, since gasoline is a terrible fuel for long term storage, as would always be the case for an emergency generator. Unless one has an awful lot of emergencies...

@jim carson Hi Jim - yes sir I am aware. I was using the given natural gas orifice in this case, so it was running way too rich, not too lean. I know it looks lean, but it's not - I made it run significantly better a few minutes later by installing a smaller orifice. I can improve the light-load performance at any temperature by installing a smaller orifice, but then that comes with its own set of problems, like no guts under load. And the engine computer is just smart enough to shut itself down when it thinks the mixture is too lean, but not smart enough to generate an error code, so just as the orifice gets small enough to idle right, it then shuts itself down unceremoniously when a load is applied. Maddening.

@@MstrMark Have you checked the regulator, if the appliance is truly convertible, you get all the orifices and you flip the spring in the regulator. Make sure to note it when you inspect it, so you get it correct.

@@Moondoggy1941 I guess the point is that Genconnex attempted to create a conversion kit that would make the appliance (aka Honda generator) truly convertible, or at least truly converted, but as far as I can tell, they failed in that attempt. The regulator is supplied by Genconnex as ready-to-use. They do not supply any extra internal parts for the regulator. The orifices I've been writing about are external to the regulator - they are used in place of the load block adjustment screw that is found on every other conversion kit that I have seen. Genconnex says that this method is required in order to make the conversion "EPA certified". I have my doubts about that, but in any case, it certainly does make it much less convenient to adjust. Last weekend I did some experimenting with the orifice size. They are basically threaded brass plugs that have been drilled out to various sizes. The natural gas orifices that come with the kit are #11, which is labeled "Normal" and #13, which is labeled "High Temperature". The numbers correspond to wire gauge drill bit sizes. I had always used the #13, because the temperatures here are typically high. But when it got colder than it has ever been, I went ahead and installed the #11 orifice, which is how it was when I made this video. When that failed so miserably, as shown in the video, I then changed it back to the #13. That did run better, but still not good. So last weekend, I made a new #15 orifice. The generator started right up and idled better than I have ever seen, but after running great for ~20 seconds, it would die as if it had been purposely turned off. After half a dozen restarts, it then ran continuously, and more smoothly than ever before. I was ready to write off the shutdowns to air in the line, or some such thing, until I started to add load. I could get up to 3950 VA and it sounded great, but when I added a 100 VA, the machine shut down again. I repeated this several times and while it would run indefinitely at 3950 VA, it would always shut down within seconds if I tried to go over 4000. It was not as if it didn't have enough power. In fact, I could briefly get to over 5500 VA, and it still sounded good, but then it would unceremoniously shut down within 20 seconds. And it wasn't throwing any error codes. I then got the idea to try reducing the gas flow at the source,. so with no load on the generator, I closed the supply valve until I could just start to hear a difference in the tone of the engine and 20 seconds later, it shut down again. So it seems that the actual cause of the shutdowns was a lean condition, not the load as such. Apparently the engine is smart enough to shut down when it gets too lean, but not smart enough to return an error code. This experiment makes it pretty clear to me that it's not adequate to just hang a demand-type gas regulator on an EU7000is and expect it to run right. One would also need to reverse engineer the engine control system. I suspect that the Genconnex guy was right about one thing - the static timing doesn't work well with natural gas. The engine control computer needs to be able to control both mixture and timing for fuel type, load, and RPM. Sadly, it seems that there is no reasonable way for me to fix this problem. It needs to be done at the design level.

@@MstrMark Gas dryers and water heaters and stoves most are convertible from Propane to Natural gas, as you know you change the orifice, but on the regulators, you remove the cap and remove the spring and flip it over. The problem is that these companies are complicating the system so they can charge a lot more money for a conversion, it should not cost more than 5 bucks but they charge 50. So if you have not tried the spring or cannot then that could be the problem as well. I know what you are doing is frustrating with multiple points of failure.

@@Moondoggy1941 The Genconnex kit mounts the regulator inside of the generator housing. If you're interested, you should check out their website. Once you see what the kit looks like and read the installation manual, then you'll understand what I'm dealing with here. In any case, it would probably take me a few hours to take it apart enough to be able to get at the regulator spring, so if that really is required, then I think it's fair to say that it's really not field-convertible. Even changing the load block orifice was difficult in the freezing cold and pitch dark, so taking the whole thing apart under the same conditions would be quite miserable. If it really does have the potential to make it run right on natural gas, I might be willing to sacrifice the option to use propane, but I'd want to see something that demonstrates/explains what you are suggesting before I embark on ripping it all apart, because then if it doesn't happen to work, I'll then be faced with ripping it apart yet again to put it back the way it is now. It could wind up taking the better part of a day. Oh, and by the way - you said $50, but this is a $750 kit!

You're not wrong Seymour...that was the point of making the video...to warn others considering this kit.

@@EtherHabitant (copied and pasted from another post): All the bad jokes about Canadians enjoying a balmy 30 degree day in their flip-flops sandals while applying suntan oil aside, my heart really goes out to you Mark! We all work hard for our money. No one likes to be cheated out of even a nickel. Genconnex and the rest of the "conversion kit vultures" out there should be hit with a class action lawsuit requiring them to refund all monies back to unsuspecting consumers. I hope you get you money back. I hope you can reverse the "conversion kit" installation and get your machine back to normal operation. Cheers and best of luck to you Sir!

Exactly.